Where would wrestling be today if WCW stayed in business and WWF folded?

Discussion in 'The Wrestling Archives' started by detroitking02, Oct 17, 2015.

  1. detroitking02

    detroitking02 Occasional Pre-Show

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    Personally I think WCW 95-98 was the best wrestling years from the great heavyweight card, the great cruserweights, and tag teams the WWF was so blame. The WWE got desperate a they went from pg to showing breast and using very explicit content. While WCW was edgee but stayed PG-13 which I liked. But what do some of you think the wrestling industry would be if WCW was still here and WWE closed it doors?
     
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  2. TellMeWhy

    TellMeWhy Championship Contender

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    I think the wrestling industry would've been better. For one, WCW didn't have ego when it came to booking and didn't play politics of "this guy is from WWE so we should bury him to make our roster look superior." If a guy was over and popular from another company, they put them over rightfully. WCW brought in Hogan, Hall, Nash, and Savage and gave them the ball. With that said if WCW was to buy WWE and do an invasion angle, I would bet my money that they would do it correctly and gain WWE's audience. WWE buying WCW and refusing to put over WCW main event guys ruined the invasion angle. (NOTE: I said WCW main event guys. So don't come in here and name Rey Mysterio). WWE burying every top WCW guy including Sting in 2015 is why they never gained WCW's fanbase. The fans knew it was bullcrap and didn't come over to watch WWE just to see guys like DDP lose.

    I would trust WCW's mindset on booking an invasion angle over WWE anyday. I think things would've been better. There would have been a crop of different wrestlers all fighting for the top spot which I'm sure would be better than the current crap of top guys in WWE today. Had WCW lived, I could see guys like Jinrak or Sean O' Haire becoming good singles wrestlers or even main eventers. Lance Storm probably could have gone further in his career had WWE never bought WCW. It's hard to tell because while WCW lost control in the 2000s, they still had so much upside
     
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  3. therockiswwf

    therockiswwf The voice of Michael Cole's headset

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    During the Invasion, the top WCW guys they got were Booker T and DDP. After that, the drop-off to the next highest guy was enormous. They didn't get the WCW roster from 96-98, they got what they could afford at the time from the WCW 2001 roster. Think about WWE at the time. They had Rock and Austin. They were at levels 500000 times above the entire Invasion roster.

    DDP was already in his 40s during the Invasion, he wasn't going to be put over huge.

    Sting lost at Wrestlemania due to thinking it was his last match. Sting then put over a young guy. Not buried.

    Lance Storm has said many times that his multi-champion reign wasn't a push. It was something the booker (I think Russo) thought would be cool. He lost the titles very quickly afterwards.

    Ric Flair seemed to be used effectively in his first WWE run.

    You guys must be forgetting the last few years of WCW. Once all of their main event guys got old (well, older since they were already old), they never really attempted to replace them. Their TV was unwatchable from mid 1999 on. WCW doesn't play politics? What? The 1997 Starrcade finish. Way to beat the evil force by technically losing first. The Giant vs Kevin Nash match that was supposed to happen at Starrcade 97 (Nash didn't want to job, claimed he had a heart attack and didn't show, then beat The Giant next month and never got in trouble). Pretty much everything Hogan did. Kevin Nash, booker. Finger Poke of Doom. I could go on and on.

    Also WCW before the NWO was not very good (in regards to the Hogan WCW era).

    If WWE went out of business and WCW didn't, the wrestling business on a global level would be dead (not on a domestic level, but globally there would be no number 1). The ratings didn't just decline due to WCW fans no longer watching. It was due to the war being over. The cultural fad faded. The bubble popped.
     
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  4. Woodstuff

    Woodstuff Pre-Show Stalwart

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    The wrestling world would have faded into obscurity mid-00s if WCW had won the rating war, IMO

    Once guys like Hogan and Nash started dropping off, their roster would've thinned out and people would've lost interest. WCW didn't create new stars like WWE did, they just signed mega-established names and pushed them through the roof. WWE won the ratings war because they were the better show. Better character development, better payoff from angles. WCW made the mistake of letting the super-established names constantly book themselves into top positions on the card. When these names started winding down their careers, there would have been massive voids in the roster that the WCW originals couldn't fill (in my opinion). To say the industry would be better if the inferior company came out on top is absolutely moronic, and annoyingly, impossible to disprove.
     
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  5. N!CKALAS CAGE

    N!CKALAS CAGE Dark Match Winner

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    I tend to agree with this. I can't imagine the results being reversed with WCW buying WWE in 01, considering how bad WCW was from early 99 till the end. Hypothetically, let's say WWE went out of business in 97-98 when they were at their worst and WCW was at their best. Bishoff and creative had no end game when it came to the nwo. The same top wrestlers would play politics and guys like Nash would still have creative control. Russo wouldn't need to be brought in which makes us believe WCW won't go under themselves.

    I can see WCW and wrestling still being around today, but not even half as popular as WWE is today, which says a lot since WWE isn't even half as popular as they were 15 years ago. Wrestling would not be as mainstream and it would be similar to how it was pre-Hogan era. WCW was a company that grew too big and too fast. Bishoff was creative and knew how to get better ratings, but he didn't have the business sense and ability that Vince had to take wrestling to the next level or at least either sustain the popularity or damage control to keep wrestling big even though it's in a major decline like it is now.
     
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  6. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

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    Are you joking or trying to be ironic... Of course they were political - but it was done at BOARDROOM/CONTRACT level, not in the locker room.

    WCW was sunk the moment they offered Scott Hall and Nash "safe harbour" clauses on their deals... you probably don't remember or know them... that was the clause that said NO ONE in the company could be paid more than them, not Hogan, not Bret Hart, not Sting, Not Goldberg... once they had them, the others had to have them and any semblence of control WCW had over booking those talents was gone... they couldn't even offer "incentive" to a guy to take a loss because it meant others then had to be given the same regardless.

    To say WWE buried every WCW guy in that period is also dead wrong.... Ron Simmons, Dustin Rhodes/Goldust, Mick Foley and of course Stone Cold and Triple H all became better known for their WWE careers than their WCW ones... guys like Big Show, Chris Jericho, Eddie, Benoit and Booker all got the title as well. The guys "buried" were the ones who either had a bad attitude like Kronik or Bagwell, were damaged goods to an extent like Steiner or who were just too old to make any real benefit like Sting and DDP were. DDP still got a US title, a Tag Title (With Kanyon) and a Mania match remember! Shane Helms got to beat THE ROCK!!! He was never going to a title but he got that moment... Billy Kidman got a good push, Lance Storm the same... Chavo...Jaimie Noble...all were around for a LONG time and had cruiser titles and tag titles... even Mike Awesome and Chuck Palumbo did ok... those who didn't... guys like Mike Sanders or Crowbar just weren't good enough.

    Storm was NEVER World title material and he knew it, he made more money working for Vince than he did WCW and built his rep so he could become a trainer on HIS terms. Guys like Jindrak didn't lose out in the long term, he went to Mexico and made a fortune.

    Even Goldberg got the title relatively quickly... this "jobbing of WCW guys" is an illusion. Think of the pre-buyout WWE guys who lost out because of it... guys like D-Lo, Godfather, R-Truth/K-Kwik and Steve Blackman...

    here is only one guy who you could say "should have got the title" and that was Regal when he was King Of The Ring, but his own mistake killed that, not any WCW bias, indeed once Trips does take over it is pretty clear Regal is his #2 - and look at the make up of the agent/backstage team... Arn, Dusty, Johnny Ace, Hayes,Malenko... nearly to a man, WCW talents!

    Vince never hated the WCW guys, but he preferred to remould them his way before using them - because he'd been burnt several times bringing talents over and it not working out when he tried to do as they had done "down south". He brought in Harley, he brought in The Brainbusters and Steiners, he brought in Flair and Dusty... and before you spout "Polka Dots", remember that Dusty was brought in hot, he just didn't get over as hoped/was disruptive at the time. He himself admitted later that he didn't give that run his best either...

    From the moment those clauses were given to the Outsiders, WCW was dead... there was little to no chance of WCW winning, there was no "killer blow" they could strike - even if they got Taker, they'd have had to pay Nash, Hall and Hogan more as a result, it would have nulllified the gains and another talent like DDP or Booker would have been jettisoned, who Vince would have scooped up and done something with.


    There was such a small window of opportunity for WCW and that was when Hogan signed originally - if they had been smarter and not hung the company on him and had some luck with Rude not being hurt (and them being able to convince him to stay, cos he was back to Titan with a title push to work Bret and co before that night) then they had a shot at a proper built run for Hogan... but they went for the short term/nostalgia game by signing washed up friends of Hogan rather than the talents they needed to get/keep. They HAD to give Nash and Hall those contracts cos otherwise, Nitro was going to fail very quickly. As shocking as Luger's return was, he wasn't good enough for either company as the top guy.

    As a hypothetical, if WCW had won, the business as we know it is gone. Perhaps Vince licks his wounds for a year or two and buys another promotion or even UFC or a similar company... If they were going to win, WCW had to win by 1999 - and they didn't, the wheels were falling off and the moment Big Show and Jericho left and SID was hitting main events - you knew it...and they did too.
     
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  7. TellMeWhy

    TellMeWhy Championship Contender

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    You don't mix politics with what's good for the fans. These type of politics is why WWE is sinking in 2015. You do what's good for business not based on ego. It was reported that after the invasion Kevin Dunn convinced Vince McMahon not to push WCW wrestlers or not have them win any matches against WWE guys because it would set the precedence to the audience that WCW was superior to WWE. WCW not being able to win a match made the invasion lopsided and killed the angle. You don't involve company politics when you own the company and talent that you're trying to create an angle and build interest in. It also didn't help that it was reported that Undertaker didn't want to put over DDP in their feud because of him being from WCW. The invasion angle was crucial because WWE stroking their own ego instead of doing what was right for business and creative (by letting WCW guys win big important matches) helped push the decline in prowrestling that wwe is still stuck in

    Outside of Booker T, everyone you named here were guys WCW fired or WCW guys that defected from WCW. I'm talking specifically about WCW talent that came over once WWE bought WCW.

    Man please. Even you yourself don't believe this crap yourself. WTF does DDP being "old" have to do with anything? DDP was about in his mid-40s but still one of WCW's recognizable stars that WWE could have done more with but instead chose to bury into mid-card obscurity. I mean how old is Kane? Kane is damn near 50 still main eventing. Undertaker is over 50 beating guys like Brock Lesnar. Stop it! Scott Steiner was over when he came to WWE yet they didn't capitalize on it. They were too busy building up HHH that the rest of the RAW brand and show suffered in quality. Notice I said WCW main eventer and here you go naming WCW mid-lowercard guys

    Helms got stuck inside a stupid gimmick-waisted talent;Billy kidman did nothing of note in WWE except turn on Paul London on Smackdown-wasted talent; Lance Storm was given a gimmick on RAW where Stonecold as RAW commissioner would come out and chant "boring" during Lance Storm matches and bring out a pillow and snore on stage in the middle of all his matches. Lance Storm=wasted talent; Chuck Palumbo-Known for doing a semi-gay gimmick with Billy Gunn. Chuck=wasted talent. Mike Awesome-barely got any tv time. Wasted talent.

    More WWE apologists excuses. Storm didn't become "World title material" because they were chanting boring at him every chance they got. Had they built and invested in him, he could have gone further. He wasn't bursting with personality but neither was Chris Benoit. He could have been another counterpart to Benoit but WWE chose to bury him because he was a WCW guy who came over after 2001. Storm's best run until this day was in WCW as the Canadian Heavyweight champion where he would come out and say, "If I could be serious for a minute."

    Yes and that's ashame. He had to go to another country to make a name meanwhile he worked for the biggest company in his homecountry yet they couldn't give him a proper chance or do what they could do to utilize his talent and bring out the best.

    Even Goldberg himself will tell you otherwise. Goldberg's character was damaged. He was barely protected. Almost every week, he was getting beat down by Evolution. He got overshadowed by HHH when he should have been the guy that RAW should have been built around. Goldberg was put to waste. Even a huge brand in WCW like nWo got put to waste! Like stop your WWE bias

    Regal does not count. Regal came to WWE on his own before 2001. I'm talking specifically about guys that WWE punished and or did not give a fair shot too for working in WCW by the time they bought them out

    !

    Come on man. Backstage agents are not part of the equation of what happened on screen about a decade and a half ago.

    Once again you're talking about WCW guys who came over to WWE before he bought WCW by naming Flair and Dusty. The only WCW main event guy he gave a shot to and repackaged was Booker T and Booker T was not as over as other WCW established main event guys. Vince took the opportunity and remolded Booker T. But he dropped the ball on guys like Steiner, DDP, and Goldberg period. He could've made more money out of those guys if he utilized them correctly.

    WCW contracts have nothing to do with the subject of WWE treating WCW main event talent like crap and wasting the majority of WCW prospects
     
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  8. TellMeWhy

    TellMeWhy Championship Contender

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    So if WWE knew that they needed the top WCW guys for it to work, then why even have an invasion angle in the first place?? And since WWE still did the invasion angle, why not build up the WCW talent that is there to make for more of an interesting feud on television?

    That's not an excuse. You still have 50yr old Kane and Undertaker being utilized in main events in 2015. Hell, didn't Hogan come to WWE and win the WWE title at age 50. Give me a break. WWE could have used DDP more than what they did

    Please, everyone knows Stings intention was to come to WWE and face Undertaker not be a glorified jobber to HHH and then Seth Rollins. Sting never once said that WM would be his last match because in the back of his mind, his dream match and reason for coming to WWE was to face Undertaker.

    Yes his first WWE run before WWE bought WCW. I'm specifically talking about WCW main eventers getting the s**t end of the stick after WWE bought WCW in 2001. And even when Flair came to WWE after WCW's buyout, Flair was limited and became a chauffeur for HHH

    I never said WCW didn't play politics kid but they didn't have the go like WWE to always stroke themselves. When a WWE guy like Hogan came to WCW, WCW rolled out the red carpet for him and made him the top guy with the world championship for the sake of business. WWE doesn't take top guys from anyone's promotion and immediately puts them over as world champion. Goldberg for instance should have won the World title on RAW immediately but instead he was just a main course for HHH to help HHH pad his resume of guys he has gone over.

    This is subjective!
     
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  9. TellMeWhy

    TellMeWhy Championship Contender

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    If WCW bought WWE, meaning Ted Turner buying WWE, Turner probably would've kept WWF running as it's own entity because Ted Turner would be aware that WWE has it's own audience and would capitalize on it. Ted Turner despite working with AOL in general is much smarter and more business savvy than Vince McMahon imo. Vince McMahon didn't capitalize on the audience of each promotion he bought. He let the fanbases of WCW and ECW disappear which hurt prowrestling in general. The smart thing Vince should have did was keep both WCW and ECW alive and keep them running as seperate entities with some small adjustments and gaining revenue from it. Instead he just bought them and let their audience die off when he could have made so much money if he played it smart. WWE in theory should have had a much bigger audience after he bought both companies but he failed and part of that goes back to the failed invasion angle and the atrocious bias WWE lopsided booking involved that I explained earlier!
     
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  10. Sexcellence of Sexecution

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    This is a tough question to answer because it would depend entirely on how WCW was able to win, and why the WWF ultimately went out of business. For this to happen, each comapny would have to operate differently and make critically different choices.

    First thigns first, let's talk about why the WCW went out of business in real life. And I don't care what anybody fucking tell you, it wasn't because of the goddamn fingerpoke of doom, and it wasn't because of Vince Russo. Two main factors contributed to the demise of WCW.
    1. Cost. Especially cost associated with talent. They were offering ridiculous big money contracts, and would sign anyone that they thoguht the WWF might be able to effectively utilize. At on epoint they had like 200 people signed to their roster. WCW was only able to turn a profit for two years out of its entire existence and the main reason why was cost. The amount of revenue required to cover their costs was ludicrous.
    2. Turner Broadcasting was purchased by Time Warner, and Time Warner merged with AOL. They saw wrestling as low brow and weren't keen on being involved with it. Ted Turner himself is what kept wrestling alive on Turner Broadcasting. He was a wrestling fan and was loyal to the wrestling business becuase it helped him build his TV station in the early days. With Ted out of the picture, executives saw a product that was losing money, and was something they weren't fans of to begin with. It's easy to see why they wanted out.

    For either of these things to be remedied, WCW would have to operate with an entirely diffierent apparatus. People also like to talk about how talent took advantage of WCW and how the loker room was a disaster. These factors would also require an entirely different structure to fix, and it's nearly impossible to speculate on what that might look like and how the world would be different.

    Now, for the WWF to be put out of business, it's a little bit easier to speculate. Two main things contributed to their success.
    1. Stone Cold Steve Austin
    2. Vince McMahon
    The greatest babyface and the greatest heel of all time, in the greatest feud of all time. This catapulted the WWF ahead of WCW, and was ultimately the inspiration for the entire WWF Attitude campaign that permeated the rest of the product. The WWF was eventually able to better tap into the popular culture of the late 1990s, and they were successful as a result. They were also able to more effectively utilize new talent and "build new stars." The Rock would become a major factor for their sustained success in late 1999 and 2000. For the WWF to fail, you would need one or more of these players out of the picture, and the WCW would not just have to be in a stae of survival, they would need to be thriving even more than they were in 1996/97. Again, tough to imagine the factors that would bring this about.

    All that being said, if WCW were to win out in the end, it would be neccessary that they operate in a manner entirely different from how they operated in reality. Based on this fact, the wrestling business would probably be fine, as the WCW would have to be operating in a more sustainable and reasonable way.
     
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  11. whoopin' ass

    whoopin' ass Championship Contender

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    That's a tough one because it means so many thing would need to be changed - no AOL merger, no Russo, etc. Let's take the easy route - WCW didn't get cancelled on the Turner networks and simply outlasted WWF.

    First, i think they would have done what Vince did and bought the competition. They weren't huge on doing home video at that time outside of the ppvs but I think they would have been smart enough to realize at some point people will want to see a Ric Flair or Hunk Hogan career video and that footage would be needed. Whether they would have run it as a seperate company or not I don't know - competition is good but too much of the product is bad so he might have just absorbed it into WCW and that would have been the end.

    In a general sense, I think we would be seeing a new golden age forming about now. Problem WCW has was no one at the helm - it kept changing so much. But the advantage they had was Turner didn't care since people liked the programming and it would work as a loss for him so he could make more money elsewhere. I think WCW would have made some big changes and really scaled back to cut back on the losses. With WWF gone, I think Hogan, Nash and any of the older more expensive guys would have been cut lose because, much like what happened when WCW closed, they are not no threat because where are they going to go? I think a few names would have stuck around but Booker T, Steiner, etc would have been the main guys now. I also think they would have tried to bring in WWF guys. Some I don't see going over - Austin, Taker, HHH, Jericho - but I do think some of the name would have. As much as he says he is WWF, I could see The Rock having gone over. His father worked a lot for the NWA so it wouldn't have surprised me if he went. Angle would have gone. WCW would have gone back to what worked which was the wrestling so Angle would have been a great fit. But the guys who didn't come over wouldn't have been a threat as no one had the money to put together a promotion with Hogan, Nash, Austin, etc. I think this would have given then a few names to keep them going once the Hogan's and such left but they still would have needed to rebuild the brand. Nitro would have been cut back to 2 hours, Thunder either cancelled or cut back to one hour so you didn't have too much and the Saturday show would have been brought back. I think it would have taken a long while to get back to a spot where people really thought it was must-see but I think they would have done it and around now is when people would really be hooked again as lots of the TNA/ROH stars would probably be working there.

    In terms of other promotions, I think things would be more or less like they were today. I don't know if TNA would be around as Jarrett might have stayed with WCW but others still would have popped up but would still be small. Doesn't matter if it is WCW or WWF, they have the money that the other promotions don't so I don't think we would have a big #2 company. I do think things might be all around better though as you wouldn't have Vince's ego to deal with. Turner wanted a successful company - that's all. Vince though has an ego and can be very vindictive. We saw a lot of angles ruined because of Vince's ego. I don't think that would have been the case if WCW survived simple because they didn't have anything to prove - Vince wanted to show that he was smarted than WCW with how he used Hogan, Nash, etc, but WCW wouldn't have had to do that and since guys like Austin, Taker, etc probably wouldn't have returned, they could simply ignore then. All in all, I think it wouldn't be too different than what we have today but I do think we would be liking the product better.
     
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  12. therockiswwf

    therockiswwf The voice of Michael Cole's headset

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    Well there first plan was to make WCW their own brand. I think the plan was to build their roster backup for a few months and then do the Invasion. The deal fell through to make their own show however. They had all those guys under contract already, so they had to use them somehow. They couldn't build them up. They would somehow have to make a bunch of main eventers really quickly. That isn't possible. Booker T and DDP were the two biggest names. Those two plus a bunch of no names (main event wise) could not challenge Austin and Rock. Rock and Austin were just too far above them. That's why Austin turned, the Alliance needed star power.

    Yeah, because those are WWE guys who have been with them for a long time or have a long history with them. DDP was new to WWE. He wasn't unknown but he wasn't a guy who was going to be around for very long (lasted only one more year I think). DDP could have been used better during the Invasion but afterwards, he didn't have much value. They would have had to devote a bunch of TV time to a guy that wasn't going to be around for much longer.

    When did Sting ever state that he only wants to face Undertaker and not anyone else? Sting DID say he thought that would be his last match and he wanted to lose because it was the right thing to do. He said it on his Into the Light Network thing.

    Flair was old. No shit he didn't get treated like a main eventer. He worked and helped a lot of young guys during that time. He was used as he should have been.

    Booker T should have been used better but that is it. Steiner couldn't work a WWE style main event (plus his injuries limited him). Goldberg did pretty well. He only stayed for a year so that altered how he was booked. I can't really think of anyone else they mistreated.

    You are right about not saying WCW didn't play politics. I misread what you wrote so that was my bad.

    The reason Goldberg didn't win immediately was so they could show a face chasing a heel and get a bunch of PPVs out of it. People would keep buying as Goldberg would get closer and closer. Same reason why The Rock didn't win at Wrestlemania 2000. They could stretch the feud out and get more buys.

    It was not that good. In between the main events and the cruiserweights, they had nothing. The main events weren't even that good. WCW notably increased in quality after the NWO started.
     
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  13. ilapierre

    ilapierre Getting Noticed By Management

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    First thing, TellMeWhy made some fantastic points in defense of WCW. It sickens me just how many 'WWE can do no wrong' fanboys there are out there. These posters post almost the exact same thing ad noseum every time they post. It's refreshing for once to hear an original (and critical) observation of what really happened and what would logically result.

    If WCW had of put WWE out of business then there is no doubt in my mind that Turner could hold his own being the head of the major wrestling promotion. I mean Turner is a multi billionaire whose not afraid to throw his money around to make things fun. With all the available wrestler writers laregely unemployed, Russo wouldn't be writing. WCW would have access to the best of the best. Video libraries maybe? WWE's timeslot and network?? McMahon would probably have been brought in to do Bischoff's job and run WCW. Stone Cold, Rock, Mick Foley..all those guys would go to WCW and have dream matches with the legends. I wouldn't be shocked if wrestling entertainment more or less ended up the same as it is today except without the McMahons running things. Oh yeah and biggest difference is Triple H probably wouldn't have won half as many titles. As McMahon would be forced to do what's best for the product or else be fired. This pushing Triple H over Undertaker, Michaels, Goldberg, Flair, Cena, Punk crap just wouldn't fly. So in that way yeah wrestling entertainment would be in a far better place.
     
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  14. jpickens

    jpickens Pre-Show Stalwart

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    People forget that post Hogan WCW was improving and had they won you would have seen a product that would have taken the bad taste of the Hogan/NWO era out with new blood like AJ Styles and James Storm who would have had at least three meaningful world title reighns plus there'd be allot of wrestlers who would one actually get used right and two not be stuck in developmental purgatory.
     
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  15. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    I know that it is considered hip and cool to bag WWE these days, and minimise Vicne's contribution, but WWE would have survived long-term, and WCW would have gone under regardless.

    On the Austin podcast, when Vince McMahon was the subject, Vince made a very interesting point. The reason that WWE succeeded where the terrortories failed was that the owners of the rival companies put most of their money in their pocket, after expenses. Vince said that he put most of the money they made back into the product.

    The fact is, WWE makes more because it spends more. You need to spend money and make money. Good marketing is making your product look visually as attractive as possible. WWE were the first to light up the area, rather than have a darkened room. Now, someone who is sitting in the front row of a show can ask their family and friends to watch, to see if they see them in the crowd. Also, making the area look full looks better than darkened arenas with papered-up seating areas.

    Say what you want about Kevin Dunn, he does at least one thing right. He is in charge of set design, and the set pieces look brilliant in WWE, whether it be a row of ladders going down the walkway at "MITB", or set pieces like cars on stage or other props, their set design is A-Grade all the way, admit it. A WWE show looks good and "big-time".

    Also, WWE changed with the times. It went from the Hulkamania era, it had the "Attitude Era" and now it has the PG era. WCW did the same thing over and over. Outside of the NWO, WCW didn't really have many memorable eras during the Monday Night Wars, and a lot of shows seemed to be the same.

    Also, WWE created stars. They established a lot of their own stars, like the Rock, and made superstars out of WCW talent who didn't have much of a WCW run. Terra Ryzing became Triple H, "Mean" Mark Callaway, who was just another big guy, became the Undertaker, the most successful gimmick wrestler ever. "Stunning" Steve Austin was a moderate star in WCW, but became mega-huge when he was "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. The only original "stars" WCW had were DDP, Sting, Ric Flair, Booker T and Goldberg. All the others were superstars in Japan, or other places first, or even in WWE.

    Also, the difference between Ted Turner and Vince McMahon is simple. WCW is just one of Ted Turner's investments. It is easy for someone else to come in and dictate WCW's fate (which is what happened with AOL/Time Warner), whereas Vince invests his own money into WWE, and he is also the owner, so no-one can come over the top and dictate to Vince the direction of WWE.

    WWE also has a number of revenue streams, so if one fails, they have many others to generate money from. WWE gets money from live audiences, tours, TV advertising, sponsorship, promotion, merchandise (T-shirts, toys, video games), film, investors etc.

    Now, WCW did that too. It is more a problem that TNA have, and why WWE beats it every tme. TNA don't even have merchandise. They once had a faction called the "Main Event Mafia", which could have taken off, but there were no T-shirts made of the faction. Ditto with "Aces & Eights". People didn't buy merchandise because they didn't put any out. The last time TNA put out a video game was back in the PS2 days.

    People here bag Vince, but they underestimate him, and that is another reason that WWE survives. When WCW went to war with WWE, Vince brought his A-game. The product isn't as good now, because it doesn't have to be, in Vince's mind. But if there was another legit challenger, Vince would pull out all the stops again. Vince has the bullets and the bombs, he just decides when is the best time to use them.

    So, I think that WWE would be around regardless. People have been predicting WWE's death for years, and it hasn't happened yet (the 1995-96 period was worse than the current era is). While WCW and others fall over, WWE goes from strength to strength, and will continue to do so, I imagine.
     
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  16. Prince Vee

    Prince Vee Better than I think I am

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    Well honestly speaking a company wouldn't have grown without a competitor opposing it. And WCW never had a great management. They time to time sort of reignited the feuds that were accumulated in the WWF. And originally WCW never created any superstars except the likes of Goldberg. So the wrestling industry wouldn't have been where it is right now. Certainly It will be still there but maybe in some arenas like in TNA and ROH and the wrestlers would be waiting for the Recognition. And apparently there wouldn't be any Chris Heroes, Christopher Daniels or Dean Ambroses.

    Cheers!!
     
    #16
  17. WorstWrestlingExcrement

    WorstWrestlingExcrement Getting Noticed By Management

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    Buddy stop ! Stop stop! WCW created many talents wwe stole and GOLDBERG is not the only star that created! Ric Flair, STING, Luger, Steve Austin, SID vicious, Scott Steiner, DDP etc I can go on. If WCW won and wwe folded we would have good solid wrestling action and not the garbage mc moron is feeding you guys!
     
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  18. WorstWrestlingExcrement

    WorstWrestlingExcrement Getting Noticed By Management

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    I totally agree you cause Steve Borden bit the bullet on that one cause he will be jobbed and I said it all along when he goes to wwe he will sell his soul to the devil for profitship and not sportsmanship! I see Steve Borden heading back to TNA cause they are underutilizing him big time I hate to see him job anymore! If Underflaker/ STING happens no matter how much the fans want it mc moron is against the idea and will never deliver it! If it does miraculously then Steve Borden needs to win over Underflaker at WM since his loss to HHH
     
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  19. WorstWrestlingExcrement

    WorstWrestlingExcrement Getting Noticed By Management

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    Never say never what comes around goes around wwe will die eventually , he wiped out his competitions bought them out so he can be the sole wrestling company around. Gone were the days USWA, AWA, WCW, Smokey mountain Wrestling etc I can go on and on . wwe will be dead I predict it with NFL destroying them and UFC gaining more ground fans have been tiresome of wwe adverting and converting to UFC , MMA or just sticking to NFL,NBA and NHL mostly! If Ted Turner can buy out TNA that would start the rivalry again
     
    #19
  20. WorstWrestlingExcrement

    WorstWrestlingExcrement Getting Noticed By Management

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    Never say never what comes around goes around wwe will die eventually , he wiped out his competitions bought them out so he can be the sole wrestling company around. Gone were the days USWA, AWA, WCW, Smokey mountain Wrestling etc I can go on and on . wwe will be dead I predict it with NFL destroying them and UFC gaining more ground fans have been tiresome of wwe adverting and converting to UFC , MMA or just sticking to NFL,NBA and NHL mostly! If Ted Turner can buy out TNA that would start the rivalry again. I agree TNA's marketing sucks with not marketing Aces and Eight , Main EVent Mafia etc . The TNA video game was on PS3 in 2009
     
    #20
  21. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

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    TellMeWhy also makes a lot of ignoring important points...

    Bottom line is that what STOPPED WCW winning the war was the contract position, when a war is lost - often people from the losing side go to the winner - but they don't run the show!

    If Taker didn't want to job to DDP, the last person who would have complained is DDP, who himself knew he had a shelf life, was passing it too quickly for more than a fleeting shot at the WWE - but he got that shot, albiet short lived. He got his Mania match - he knew he was lucky in WCW to get what he got and appreciated it, and likewise in the WWE. They could have easily just "not bothered" with him at all, look at Jeff Jarrett!

    Whether guys defected or not is not relevant - the point you are trying to make is that WWE got the "talent they wanted" before WCW folded with the exception of Sting, Rey and Goldberg. Any one else was a bonus, it was the wrestling version of Storage Wars... they got to pick up some contracts, some useful like Helms and Storm, others not so much. The person I neglected to mention who absolutely got used and pushed was Stacy Keibler! Not as a wrestler, but she was the top non wrestling Diva for a good while.

    What happened after the war was lost by WCW is immaterial in many ways - WCW lost it, and they had lost it in reality by 1999. Their financials were what killed them, the crazy clauses in contracts and "at any cost" mentality that saw Bischoff called "ATM Eric". To have won that war, things had to be done differently in WCW from 1994 onwards... They got close and part of their model worked, but it was at too great a cost... That 80+ week run at the top became a Pyrrhic victory.

    I am no WWE can do no wrong - but the fact is they DID do better, with less than WCW did. WCW did some great stuff but were so focused on putting WWE out of business, they lost their own. Even on the day he bought WCW, Vince was open to keeping them running as was... with changes of course. He didn't do so and that is arguably HIS biggest ever mistake and why WWE is where it is now... but to say he was anti-WCW is wrong and apologist for the complete FUCK UP that was made with WCW... Everyone associated with that should be ashamed... the guys who took the money, the guys who made the bad decisions, the guys who shut it down.... even the guys who defected to an extent, but to a man they all did better so were justified.
     
    #21
  22. BringThePain834

    BringThePain834 Getting Noticed By Management

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    Hi Crocker.

    Nice account you have there. Would be a shame if this one was put in The Prison too
     
    #22
  23. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    People have predicted WWE's death for many years.

    People were predicting that WWE would die when they also predicted that the first Wrestlemania would fail and the company would go bankrupt.

    Then people predicted WWE would die when Hogan left the company, and the company would not survive it. Then it was when Vince got implicated in the drugs scandal and was facing prison.

    Deaths were also predicted in 1995-96, when the company when at an all-time low, when Raw was losing to Nitro 83 weeks in a row, when "Stone Cold" Steve Austin retired and the Rock left to make movies. Also, it is still being predicted to this day by you and many other haters.

    I'm surprised that you would want WWE to die, being a wrestling fan. If WWE dies, NXT dies, and all other wrestling companies in the U.S. would fold as well.

    I predict that WWE will be around for many, many years yet.
     
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  24. SinCityBlitz

    SinCityBlitz Crossface Chickenwing

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    Turner merged with AOL/TW in October of 96. No matter who won the wars WCW was doomed on TBS/TNT. They could have found a different network but very few companies wanted WCW.

    WCW was doomed the day that merger happened. Not only because AOL looked down on PW and wanted it gone, because they did. But WCW helped do itself in by being horribly mismanaged. Once the inmates took over the asylum, it was good as gone.


    "If Ted Turner can buy out TNA"

    ROFLMAO.....do some homework man. TT doesn't have the money or any kind of pull anymore. He made a HUGE mistake merging with TW/AOL and is still paying for it today.

    Where would wrestling be today? Replace WWE with WCW and there you have it. People would be wondering what if WWF had won the war.
     
    #24
  25. WorstWrestlingExcrement

    WorstWrestlingExcrement Getting Noticed By Management

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    If it is still around is because mc moron has your wrapped around his finger and he knows how to deceive and sucker fans like you into his excrement product and people who fall into these traps and dislike the ppv still complain again and again when all they have to do is quit watching it and boycott this excrement product. The only one who is laughing is vince mc moron himself who suckers fans time and time again and you people don t learn but keep falling into it and getting fooled!
    If fans can try to broaden their horizons watch other wrestling promotions like ROH, NJPW, TNA, and Lucha Underground and be amazed at the wrestling action you will then realize Wrestling is packed with action and not unnecessary storylines ! But you fans are closed minded and stick to this excrement product like bible worshippers! Come on LOL
     
    #25

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