What went wrong?

Discussion in 'Old School Wrestling' started by ShinChan, May 26, 2017.

  1. ShinChan

    ShinChan Gone. For. Good.

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    So, yesterday I was going through Wrestlemania XXX LD here. And apart from Daniel Bryan and Brock Lesnar, the most talked about was Cesaro. If you have forgotten what happened regarding Cesaro at Wrestlemania XXX, here's a reminder:

    [YouTube]idfB1XJYud4[/YouTube]

    And what actually happened was that Cesaro body slammed Big Show out of the ring to win the inaugral Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal. And just see the live audience cheering him while almost all stood up when Cesaro won the match.

    I saw people saying that a star was born. That he would be a World Champion in that year itself. Fast forward to now and he's in a tag team with Sheamus. He hasn't even won a midcard singles title after more than 3 years of that incredible moment.

    So what went wrong with Cesaro and who was responsible for it? I think that it was the alliance with Paul Heyman. And more importantly the heel turn.
     
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  2. Eyebrows

    Eyebrows Guest

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    I like Cesaro in the role he is in and enjoy the team with Sheamus. He's in a position a lot of people would be in.

    That said, I agree, I think it was the heel turn and don't know why they decided to take a guy who was over as a face and put him with Heyman. I know *why*, in the sense that they don't rate him on the mic, but surely there as another way to deal with that than the way they did. I'm not sure he'd have been world champ as a face either, though.
     
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  3. John McCass

    John McCass You talkin' to me?

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    Slamming Big Show is not a big deal anymore. Other than that I don't find him impressive. I haven't seen a lot of his work on the indy circuit but doesn't Wikipedia list him as a tag team player for the most part.

    What went wrong? I don't see him as a major player. He's good and all that but he doesn't strike me as a top guy or even one of the top guys. He doesn't have the IT factor and the internet has to get over it.
     
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  4. stingray11214

    stingray11214 Cena is no Bruno & Cole is no Solie

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    Cesaro was always better as a tag team wrestler. Take a look at his history. Most of his accolades were in a team. I, for one, cannot wait for Chris Hero, er, Kassius Ohno, to get called up for a reunion of a team that was better that Cesaro/Sheamus.
     
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  5. radec

    radec Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Telling people to get over it, ain't gonna help your case. People see the potential in Cesaro because he's damn good in the ring, his freakish strength, he looks like a star, he wrestles like a star, but the company doesn't want him to be a star. "He doesn't have the IT factor", the only thing Cesaro doesn't have is good mic skills. He had Paul Heyman on his side, but it was just an excuse to brag about streak. Had they use Heyman as a true mouthpiece for Cesaro, mic skills wouldn't become a hindrance for Cesaro.
     
    #5
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  6. Spencesc11

    Spencesc11 Getting Noticed By Management

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    What should've happened.....

    Real American should've won the tag titles

    Cesaro shows as the dominant force of the team as Swagger looks weak at times. Swagger attacks Cesaro at a PPV as the drop the gold back to the Uso's. Cesaro face turn.

    He squashes Swagger in a short 2 month feud

    Progresses on to win MITB and beats Cena at a major PPV for the Title

    Star is born.
     
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  7. Kodo Sawaki

    Kodo Sawaki Championship Contender

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    You saw smarks. They tend to over-hype for something that isnt very sustainable in reality. Like fan favorite winning trophy in a match that solely exist to gather around wrestlers that dont have a match at Wrestlemania. And they make a big deal out of something not that big and say things like "He is World Champion to the end of the year, mark my words this is only the beginning".

    In reality he was never that counted upon. WWE never really had concrete plan what to do with him, Vince dubbed him as someone unable to "rise and grab ring made of brass" and as "injury prone". So they never really pulled the lever on his push. Which is shame, Cesaro was over and in dire need of at least midcard title push.
     
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  8. Issa Genesis

    Issa Genesis Actively evolving

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    Either you wasn't paying attention that year or you forgot but Cesaro was INDEED one of the top priorities to get pushed in 2014 along with Roman Reigns, Big E. Langston, Bray Wyatt, and Bad News Barrett. Only thing that stopped his push initally was Bryan getting injured. In case, you don't remember Cesaro was initally booked to win the Money In The Bank briefcase, where he would have then cashed in on Brock Lesnar at SummerSlam to win the WWE Championship following Brock defeating Bryan for the title, then he would've beaten him in a rematch at Night Of Champions sending Brock off TV until WrestleMania 31 where Brock would've had his final match and left the company. What stopped that was Bryan got injured and WWE needed to act quick and changed plans to a MITB Match for the WWE Championship and wasn't initially planning on a Ladder Match and Cesaro was announced as one of the names in it already before the actual briefcase match was announced. Plans changed to Seth winning the briefcase because Cesaro was already announced for the other match. WWE didn't want Cesaro to win the title in the MITB Match because they felt it would have cheapened his eventual moment.

    Following Money In The Bank 2014, Cesaro was put on the backburner and was still in lined for an eventual push up until he was failing to connect in the following months and plans for his push was scrapped. Cesaro was originally planned to drop the title either to The Rock or back to Brock Lesnar at Royal Rumble. It was never said who Cesaro would have faced at WrestleMania 31 the next year but I remember the exact details from all the reports that was reported that year and how things played out.
     
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  9. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    When I first heard the hype about Cesaro, I didn't see it.

    I tipped Big Show to win the inaugural "Andre The Giant" Battle Royal (as I reasoned it would be used as a spinboard for Show to brag how he is the most dominant giant in WWE history, even more than Andre The Giant himself).

    However, when Cesaro eliminated Show from the battle royal, and won, the reaction from the crowd made me think that they would turn him babyface and push him (this was when I naively believed that winning the Andre battle royal earnt you something).

    I can see it. The next night, Cesaro would come out to rousing cheers on RAW. He would speak about winning the royal, and his journey, when Big Show came out and said that it was a fluke. They would then feud, and Cesaro would beat Big Show again, much to Show's dismay, and Cesaro would be seen as a "Giant-Killer", and be massively over.

    No, instead they had him join Paul Heyman. Now, this made sense from the viewpoint that Heyman can help those who aren't great on the mike (which Cesaro isn't, but he has gotten better since his teaming with Sheamus). It also got fans excited that there could be a possible Cesaro v Brock Lesnar feud in the offing, since they are both Paul Heyman guys.

    But instead, it just blunted Cesaro's momentum. I spoke about this, along with other stymied pushes of fan favourites, in another thread of mine.

    But don't be too sad. I think his tag-team with Sheamus has been good, has given both guys airtime and importance, and reminds me of the "Hell No" pairing of Daniel Bryan and Kane (two reluctant superstars who can't stand each other at first, but then form a team and become allies). They have a high-profile feud with the Hardys and the belts, so I think Cesaro, even though he isn't in the main title picture, is still doing okay at the moment.
     
    #9
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  10. Kodo Sawaki

    Kodo Sawaki Championship Contender

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    Again

    Dont know if you can see where am I going? Or if you did just felt, I dunno, called out?

    But here are facts

    Does any of this sounds like somebody who would be pushed to the moon? Or just somebody who WWE dont know what to do? But they did not really planned anything with him. I mean, just take a look at that last statement in quoted post. Does that even sounds like somebody they used properly? Not slamming the guy, actually like him and would love to see him at least with some US title. But be real, in reality they never really pushed him for real. Weather its because he isnt by "WWE standard" or dubbed as "injury prone" I dont really know. But fact remains he wasnt counted as serious competitor.
     
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  11. FromGlasgow

    FromGlasgow Championship Contender

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    Wrestling skills wise Cesaro is one of the if not thee best in the WWE and if the world title was awarded solely on wrestling skill then he would be a multi time world champion by now, Unfortunately with talking and promos he's incredibly boring, He doesn't look anything special and has zero presence, Looking too much like a regular guy, I'm trying not to knock him as I'm a fan of his I'm just being honest. Kind of reminds me of how someone like Shelton Benjamen was back in the day, Incredible wrestler to watch but so dull in any kind of promo or storyline outside the ring.
     
    #11
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  12. Jeff Deliverer of Mail

    Jeff Deliverer of Mail Money for nothin, chicks for free
    E-Fed Mod

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    Cesaro is too bland. He's like creating a wrestler in video games, if you don't bother changing anything with how the wrestler looks and just leave him on default but give him some real interesting wrestling moves instead. That's Cesaro. That won't get you the big matches at Mania or any important titles outside tag titles. Inject a personality and some mic skills into the guy, turn him heel and change his gimmick to Antonio The Butcher Cesaro and you have a guy who could have U.S or I.C title runs.
     
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  13. radec

    radec Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Are you writer of that awful period of WCW Face Hogan? Only an idiot would come up with that. Never become a wrestling booker.
     
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  14. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    I don't think anything necessarily went wrong so much as there probably wasn't anything major planned for him in the first place.

    Even when Cesaro won the first Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal, I can honestly say that I didn't expect anything to come of it because I knew from the beginning what the battle royal was really all about: a means of getting most of the male wrestlers on the roster onto the WrestleMania card so they could have a share of the biggest payday of the year. I didn't picture Cesaro rising through the ranks on his way to being a main eventer because it's obvious that when you look back on things, Vince just isn't interested or doesn't know what to do with him. During Vince's infamous podcast interview with Stone Cold Steve Austin, he all but through the WWE roster under the bus by not taking any responsibility for any problems plaguing WWE's creative process and pushing wrestlers, even though the buck ultimately stops with him because of his micromanaging style of having to be in direct control, and he especially mentioned Cesaro during his "brass ring" comment.

    Vince can be a really weird cat when you actually stop to think about it. Cesaro is a unique talent, genuinely one of the most consistently high quality in-ring talents in WWE over the last decade, is freakishly strong, deceptively athletic, can wrestle just about any style comfortably and can pull good matches out of limited wrestlers; you'd think he'd be someone that a promoter would look at and say "I think this guy brings a lot to the table and I want to try doing something with him" but that hasn't really happened when it comes to Vince and Cesaro. When you add everything up, it only makes it all the more odd that Vince put the WWE Championship on Jinder Mahal when someone like Cesaro, who hasn't gotten the time of day from Vince, is simply a much better pro wrestler. I'm not saying that to necessarily bash Jinder, I'm willing to give him some time before I condemn or accept his push, but I'm of the opinion that Cesaro is just vastly more talented.
     
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  15. ShinChan

    ShinChan Gone. For. Good.

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    I totally agree with you about the contrast between Cesaro & Jinder Mahal.

    Some fans who liked Jinder's push, said that he paid his dues in WWE. What? While doing jobbing? Then I would like to see Tye Dillinger as the World Champion. :rolleyes:

    Paying dues is what Cesaro has done. Not Jinder who hasn't had a single memorable moment in his WWE career until this mega push. Memorable moments as well as matches while lurking in the midcard since forever. That's paying dues. But unfortunately he won't be pushed because Vince finds him boring. Plus, he is from Switzerland and so that country doesn't matter. USA, India etc matter more.
     
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  16. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    I think 2 things went wrong, first one was the fact that they clearly did that for the shock value of the thing without truly any plans pass the battle royal. You could have put anybody in that spot and it would have been as good as Cesaro.

    The second thing was they put him with heyman after his big win. The fact was sonce they really didn't have anything for him af mania and Heyman did have anything to do until summerslam because lesnar was taking one of his long break, they thought maybe if we put Cesaro with Heyman and build up some sort of rivalry by the end of the summer between Cesaro and Heyman, this would lead into a summerslam match between Cesaro and Lesnar. The problem they encountered was that they fogot that the fans wanted the face turn now and not in four months like they had planned so with the fans not caring about Cesaro because of some booking decisions, they just drop the whole thing and became the workhorse that he his right now.

    Cesaro is kinda a rare bread of wrestler, were you put him in a single situation and he's can have a good match but looks just like any other wrestlers, then you put him in a tag team and suddenly he look like a superstars. I always loved cesaro in tag team situation more so then any single run he had. In my opinion, that's kinda were he need to stay for the time beeing because he shine way more in a tag team then anytime he's been on his own.
     
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  17. thebarber

    thebarber Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    they put Cesaro with Heyman, and used Heymans tv time to promote Lesnar instead of being a mouthpiece for Cesaro.
     
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