As I said originally, Rey Mysterio is a cruiserweight wrestler, and the title's he held in WCW were cruiserweight titles, the titles he wanted to win.
No, that wasn’t the title he wanted to win. Every wrestler, no matter the weight or size, wants to win a top tier title and that’s what Mysterio did in WWE. In WCW he was relegated to wrestle for a lower tier championship which was the cruiserweight champion, how can you tell me he wanted that over a World Champion? Simply put, you can’t. It’s ridiculous that you even implied that.
As the heavyweight champion he was seen as a fluke and an underdog, someone who didn't deserve it.
We are not here to debate whether he was a fluke champion or if he was seen as an underdog because what matters most is that he won one of the top titles in the number one company in the world. It doesn’t matter why he won it or how he won or if he deserve it or not because guess what? He still won the title and held it for a few weeks. Simply put, he won the title and that’s what matters most here.
Well of course people were going to see him as a fluke and underdog because of the people he was being put up against.
Do you know people saw him as a fluke? Just because you saw him as a fluke, it doesn’t mean others saw him the same way. Everyone has their own opinions and there were people who didn’t see him as a fluke champion. The fact of the matter is that he still defeated all of those people who were either bigger than him or as fast as him and retained his title. That’s what matters most here, the fact that he was able to defeat them.
I guarantee you if he won the title today people wouldn’t think the same thing because he is facing wrestlers that are nearer to his size.
Getting a little cocky aren’t we? You can’t really guarantee anything because you don’t actually know it. I can tell you I guarantee you that tomorrow Rey Mysterio is going to shoot some lunatic on the streets but it doesn’t make it true. So the same applies for you here, just because you think that way it doesn’t mean it’s a guarantee it will be that way. Anyways, the people he would be facing today are still bigger than him and some are even quicker than him which further proves that it’s not a guarantee some people would still think the same way.
While as cruiserweight division in WCW, he was actually seen as the best.
Can this be proven with facts? I don’t think so. It’s your personal opinion that he was seen as the best like it is mines that he wasn’t. I thought there were some better guys in the division than him. But that’s my opinion which I am not throwing out there as something that many people believe.
And his intercontinental title reigns, well, he lost the title and regained it during that reign, so I wouldn't really accept one of his reigns as successful.
Why? Is it because it doesn’t help your argument? Well that’s fine and all but don’t make outrageous claims like the one you just made. Ric Flair lost a world title 16 times; does this mean none of those reigns were successful? I hope you don’t think so because I don’t. Just because you lose a title it does not mean the reign was not a successful one. In his first reign he defended the title against Chris Jericho and retained it. So he was successful for the amount of time he held the Intercontinental title for the first time. Then he lost it because Jericho had to unmask him in order to win the title. He later won the title back and has had some successful defenses and is still holding the title. So I would say that so far he has been successful in both of his reigns as Intercontinental champion.
Firstly, there are only 30 wrestlers in the royal rumble, not 40.
It was a typo.
He won the title in his division, the cruiserweight division, while he won the World title as the least likely of the 3. You could also say, but not entirely, that his friend Eddie Guerrerro's death played a part.
Like I said, it doesn’t matter who had to die for him to win the World Title because he still won it which is what matters here. Anyways, did you ever think that the title was given to him as a thank you for all of his years in the business, kind of how it was reported that that was the reason Chris Benoit was given his world title run? Anyways, it still wouldn’t make a difference because he won the world title, something he was never able to do in WCW.
The fact he beat 2 men takes away from his achievement actually.
Why? He was forced to wrestle 2 men in order to win the title. That actually makes things harder for him because he has to take out one man then take out the other in order to assure himself the win. How is that not harder than having to defeat one man? Let’s see your reasoning.
Rather than beating one of those one on one, he wrestled both.
So we are in agreement that he had to defeat two men in order to assure himself the win in that match.
But don't kid yourself, it wasn't a handicap match.
Who said it was?
They had to wrestle each other aswell. They could wear each other out.
Kind of how they could also do the same thing to Mysterio, the weakest of all of three in my opinion.
He didn't even beat Sabu, it was wrestled to a no contest, after Sabu hit him with a moonsault through a table. Dominating.
I totally forgot about that, my apologies. But he still was able to retain the title even if the match went to a no contest which is what matters: the fact that he kept his title.
He won the title because JBL was leaving the company, in a less than a minute match.
He still won the title, didn’t he? Like I said for his world title run, it doesn’t matter the reason behind why he won the title but what matters is the fact that he won it. The same applies here.
I will admit those matches were good, but alot had to do with the great worker that is Chris Jericho. He can carry almost anyone to a good match.
So you’re implying Jericho carried the match because Mysterio didn’t put up his half of the deal? I disagree with that statement and I think that Mysterio did half the work while Chris did the other half. It takes two men to have a very good match and it was that was the case here.
You forget he also lost the title during this feud with Jericho, and won it back at the next pay per view, which did nothing to help him other than to add another reign to his resume.
Yes he lost the title, but he regained it which is what matters here. He wasn’t going to allow Jericho to keep the title after the way he won it (taking his mask off) so he decided to challenge him again and was able to win. He was able to regain his title which at the end of the day is what matters most.
Read what I bolded there.
Okay done.
Even you admit he wasn't in the same shape as he was in WCW.
I have no problem admitting that but we aren’t debating about his shape. Anyways, it further proves my point that he was able to be successful (the definition of thrive) even though he wasn’t in the same shape that he was back then.
Just to prove how he thrived more in the WCW.
He didn’t thrive more in WCW. He was way more successful in the WWE because of the fact the he won top tier titles and is currently considered to be a main event talent on the Smackdwon brand by me and maybe others.
If he had have wrestled Jericho (in his current shape) back when Mysterio was cruiserweight champion, the match would have been far better.
Why does that matter. We are not debating when he would have been able to have a better match, we are debating where he thrived more which in this case is the WWE because of the reasons I mentioned before.
The same as at wrestlemania in the triple threat, it wasn't a handicap match.
And again I ask you, who ever said that? I didn’t. I simply said he defeated two other wrestlers. I never once said he won his world title in a handicap match.
It wasn't 29 on 1. Those 29 other wrestlers were fighting each other aswell. Don't forget that part.
Which makes me ask you this once again, who said he was wrestling 29 other men. I stated that he defeated the other 29 men because he was the winner at the end. I never said he wrestled the other 29 men.
And as for wrestling for 60 minutes, I wouldn't count that as wrestling.
So what would you consider it? Doing fake moves or is it something else that I didn’t know about?
He wasn't one on one wih someone for 60 minutes,
Who said he was? I didn’t. Obviously he wasn’t going to be going up against the same guy for over 60 minutes. People get eliminated in that type of match therefore he has to wrestle different guys because the chances of the guy he was wrestling getting eliminated are very likely. So, he obviously wrestled different men.
Well obviously he has to or else something could happen to him. But he wasn’t taking 10 minutes breaks throughout the whole match, the breaks went for a couple of seconds or a few minutes but never for a longer amount of time.
The ring was too crowded to actually wrestle.
Well you do know the wrestling rings the WWE uses are pretty big so I don’t know how you came to this conclusion. Anyways, then what the hell was he doing? Standing around looking like an idiot? I don’t think so. He was wrestling not doing anything.
They just spend the time punching and kicking each other.
Isn’t that something that wrestlers who wrestle do?
It wasn't Samoa Joe vs CM Punk by any means.
Who cares? This debate is about Rey Mysterio not those guys.
And he wasn't the only one eliminating people,
Who said he was the only one doing that? If you watch the match carefully then you’ll notice that there were other wrestlers eliminating people too.
there were other, bigger wrestlers in the match also.
Is someone denying this?
Do you want to see good matches,
Well yeah, that’s why I watch wrestling for. To see good matches that are entertaining.
well Here's Eddie guerrerro vs Rey Mysterio at Halloween Havok 1998.
Bravo, he was able to have a match during the time he was in the best shape of his career. If this was a few years ago when Eddie was still alive then I would be more impressed. I know what Mysterio was capable of doing then so it’s hardly impressive because of the shape he was in.
It is quite obvious Rey Mysterio thrived more where he belongs, in World Championship Wrestling.
That’s where he might have belonged but not where he thrived. In the WWE he had a world title reign and has main evented occasionally. The definition of thrive is to be successful and that’s exactly how Mysterio’s career has been so far in the WWE: successful. I’m not going to deny he had success in WCW (because he did) but he just found more success in the WWE which is why he thrived more with them.
