Week 3: hiphopa-pokemon -versus- SavageTaker

Discussion in 'Debator's League 2009' started by Mr. TM, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. Mr. TM

    Mr. TM Throwing a tantrum

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    Over time, wrestlers have jumped ship from one promotion to another promotion. Each time the wrestler had a different run in each company. Some have been better, some have been worse. But for those wrestlers who faced a similar push, in which company did they thrive more in?

    Did Rey Mysterio thrive more in WCW or WWE?



    SavageTaker is the home debater, he gets to choose which side of the debate he is on first, but he has 24 hours.

    Remember to read the rules. This thread is only for the debaters.
     
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  2. SavageTaker

    SavageTaker Everybody Has A Price!

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    I am going to say that he thrived more in WWE. Hiphopa you can post your argument first. I'll be looking forward to our debate. Best of luck to you.
     
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  3. The Hiphopapotamus

    The Hiphopapotamus The Dude abides

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    Ladies, gentlemen, judges, my esteemed opponent, I'm here today to argue that Rey mysterio thrived much more in the WCW than in his current stint in the WWE. Why, well based on the following criteria.

    Rey Mysterio is a cruiserweight. It's quite obvious, you know, based on him being quite small and everything. And the one thing that World Championship wrestling had that World Wrestling Entertainment never really had. A cruiserweight division. Rey Mysterio, in WCW, wrestled in his weight class. Wrestled with other people his size. Rey Mysterio in the WWE is booked as being one thing, other than a high flyer, and that's the ultimate underground. Most matches that he wrestles, he is always shown to be too small to compete, but ends up winning in the end. He is constantly shown to be inferior at the beginning.

    When an underdog wins over the favourite, his opponent, it's an upset. And Rey, the ultimate underdog, scores many "upsets". But surely out of so many upsets, there should be a fluke win. Something noone wants to win. When you win, you want to win by showing your superiority. But if you go in and upset your opponent, in a fluke, that's not much superiority now is it. But when he wrestled in the cruiserweight division, he was shown as on par and even better than his opponents. Personally, and most athletes would agree, I'd rather win as a favourite, than be the little engine that could.

    When he wrestled in WCW, he was allowed to fully demonstrate what he could do aerially. He was probably the best high flyer in the world for a while. He won the wrestling observer award for best high flyer in 1995, 96 and 97, and most outstanding wrestler in 1996. Just to show how much he thrived in the WCW. He was allowed to do what he wanted in the ring, because he wrestled in a high flying division. But now, in WWE, he has been watered down. I wouldn't consider him much more of a high flyer anymore. I'd much rather watch the X division than him if I'm looking for some high flying, high risk, high octane action.

    Look at Evan bourne currently in the WWE. As an independent wrestler, under the name Matt Sydal, he was awesome. Now, he's a watered down shell of his former self that is getting over because of his finisher.

    Wrestling people that are like you not only put on better matches, but make you look better. 2 power wrestlers one on one, they both look good. Technical wrestler. Hardcore wrestlers. When Rey Mysterio wrestles Kane, he just looks pathetic. But if he stands alongside, Eddie Guerrerro and Chavo, he looks slightly more believable. And the similar wrestlers are willing to take the moves he throws at them. I don't think Batista is willing, or able, to take a hurracanra. But I'm damn sure Billy Kidman is. Homicide, undoubtedly, looks great when he hits the Gringo Killah. But it requires a sick neck bump. A bump only the crazy X division wrestlers seem to be willing to take, with them being used to it and all. Hence, when he wrestles his fellow X division wrestlers, he looks better. Simple. As is the same for Rey.

    If a boxer who was one of the best in his weight class moved up and one a few fights, but was constantly hailed as an underdog and a fluke, would he be happy.Would you rather be triumphant where you should be, or capable where you shouldn't. Would Rey rather be the main man where he belongs, or just another mid carder. Except who's smaller than everyone else.

    And sells his masks.
     
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  4. SavageTaker

    SavageTaker Everybody Has A Price!

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    First I want to say that I wish my opponent luck in this debate and I am hoping we are able to have a great one. Anyways, in this post I plan on proving why Mysterio thrived much more when he was in the WWE. My opponent says he thrived more when he was in WCW, but unfortunately for him, I am here to prove him wrong because I know that I am right.

    For starters, let’s look at the definition of thrive:
    So now that we have established the definition of what “thriving” means exactly I can tell everyone reading this post why Rey did indeed thrive more in the WWE than during his time with WCW.

    First let’s look at what titles he captured and are some of his biggest accomplishments in WCW:
    So he did acquire quite a few title reigns during his time in WCW but now let’s look at what titles he has acquired so far in the WWE:
    So, I think it’s very clear that everything, and I mean absolutely everything, Rey Mysterio has accomplished in the WWE way more than what he has done in WCW. He has held some of the most prestigious titles in the WWE (titles that are more prestigious than the ones he held in WCW, he’s held the top titles of several divisions, and had to go through 39 other men for over an hour in order to receive a World Title shot. But in case that’s not enough, I will go through some of those reigns.

    World Heavyweight Championship: Say what you want about why he won the title but it doesn’t change the fact that he won it and is considered a former World Champion. He won the title by defeating not one man, but two men in Randy Orton and Kurt Angle at the biggest stage in pro-wrestling: Wrestlemania. Not only did he defeat them, he also defeated other men in title defenses and retained his title successfully. Some of those men include: Randy Orton and Kurt Angle in singles matches, JBL (twice), Sabu, and Mark Henry. So he was pretty successful during his reign and he defeated all types of wrestlers. It didn’t matter if they were as quick as him (or quicker) or bigger than him, he defeated them all.

    WWE Intercontinental Championship (2 times, current): He initially won the title at Wrestlemania from JBL and became the 21st triple crown champion in the history of the WWE. After he won the title he began feuding with Chris Jericho. They had a great feud with Chris Jericho with some very good and entertaining matches. Some of those matches they had were at The Bash and on Smackdown. Here is the match they had on an episode of Smackdown:

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    Even though he was not in the same shape during that match that he was during his time in WCW, he was still able to put on a great match that people are calling one of the best TV matches of the year so far. There are many other very good matches that Mysterio has been involved in throughout his tenure in the WWE.

    Anyways, now let’s look at his Royal Rumble win in 2006. He defeated 29 other men in order to gain a World Title shot at Wrestlemania. That’s an impressive feat but it’s also very impressive feat that he entered as number two and went on to wrestler for over 60 minutes. There aren’t that many wrestlers who can say they defeated 29 other men and wrestled for over an hour. Mysterio’s performance was also very impressive because he isn’t the biggest guy in town. So he had to wrestle men that were way bigger than him, yet he was still able to win the match. I don’t ever remember Mysterio being able to do that during his time in WCW.

    Overall, I believe Mysterio thrived more in WWE than he did during his time in WCW. This is evident by the titles he has picked up along the way, the people he has defeated, and the great matches he has been able to put on. He has been very successful (meaning he thrived more) in WWE and I think I’ve been able to prove that.
     
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  5. The Hiphopapotamus

    The Hiphopapotamus The Dude abides

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    Good luck to you too. I finally get to debate.

    I disagree, obviously.

    As I said originally, Rey Mysterio is a cruiserweight wrestler, and the title's he held in WCW were cruiserweight titles, the titles he wanted to win. As the heavyweight champion he was seen as a fluke and an underdog, someone who didn't deserve it. While as cruiserweight division in WCW, he was actually seen as the best. And his intercontinental title reigns, well, he lost the title and regained it during that reign, so I wouldn't really accept one of his reigns as successful.


    Firstly, there are only 30 wrestlers in the royal rumble, not 40. He won the title in his division, the cruiserweight division, while he won the World title as the least likely of the 3. You could also say, but not entirely, that his friend Eddie Guerrerro's death played a part.


    The fact he beat 2 men takes away from his achievement actually. Rather than beating one of those one on one, he wrestled both. But don't kid yourself, it wasn't a handicap match. They had to wrestle each other aswell. They could wear each other out.
    He didn't even beat Sabu, it was wrestled to a no contest, after Sabu hit him with a moonsault through a table. Dominating.


    He won the title because JBL was leaving the company, in a less than a minute match.
    I will admit those matches were good, but alot had to do with the great worker that is Chris Jericho. He can carry almost anyone to a good match.

    You forget he also lost the title during this feud with Jericho, and won it back at the next pay per view, which did nothing to help him other than to add another reign to his resume.

    Read what I bolded there. Even you admit he wasn't in the same shape as he was in WCW. Just to prove how he thrived more in the WCW. If he had have wrestled Jericho (in his current shape) back when Mysterio was cruiserweight champion, the match would have been far better.

    The same as at wrestlemania in the triple threat, it wasn't a handicap match. It wasn't 29 on 1. Those 29 other wrestlers were fighting each other aswell. Don't forget that part. And as for wrestling for 60 minutes, I wouldn't count that as wrestling. He wasn't one on one wih someone for 60 minutes, he got to take breaks. The ring was too crowded to actually wrestle. They just spend the time punching and kicking each other. It wasn't Samoa Joe vs CM Punk by any means. And he wasn't the only one eliminating people, there were other, bigger wrestlers in the match also.

    Do you want to see good matches, well Here's Eddie guerrerro vs Rey Mysterio at Halloween Havok 1998.



    It is quite obvious Rey Mysterio thrived more where he belongs, in World Championship Wrestling.
     
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  6. SavageTaker

    SavageTaker Everybody Has A Price!

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    No, that wasn&#8217;t the title he wanted to win. Every wrestler, no matter the weight or size, wants to win a top tier title and that&#8217;s what Mysterio did in WWE. In WCW he was relegated to wrestle for a lower tier championship which was the cruiserweight champion, how can you tell me he wanted that over a World Champion? Simply put, you can&#8217;t. It&#8217;s ridiculous that you even implied that.
    We are not here to debate whether he was a fluke champion or if he was seen as an underdog because what matters most is that he won one of the top titles in the number one company in the world. It doesn&#8217;t matter why he won it or how he won or if he deserve it or not because guess what? He still won the title and held it for a few weeks. Simply put, he won the title and that&#8217;s what matters most here.
    Do you know people saw him as a fluke? Just because you saw him as a fluke, it doesn&#8217;t mean others saw him the same way. Everyone has their own opinions and there were people who didn&#8217;t see him as a fluke champion. The fact of the matter is that he still defeated all of those people who were either bigger than him or as fast as him and retained his title. That&#8217;s what matters most here, the fact that he was able to defeat them.
    Getting a little cocky aren&#8217;t we? You can&#8217;t really guarantee anything because you don&#8217;t actually know it. I can tell you I guarantee you that tomorrow Rey Mysterio is going to shoot some lunatic on the streets but it doesn&#8217;t make it true. So the same applies for you here, just because you think that way it doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s a guarantee it will be that way. Anyways, the people he would be facing today are still bigger than him and some are even quicker than him which further proves that it&#8217;s not a guarantee some people would still think the same way.

    Can this be proven with facts? I don&#8217;t think so. It&#8217;s your personal opinion that he was seen as the best like it is mines that he wasn&#8217;t. I thought there were some better guys in the division than him. But that&#8217;s my opinion which I am not throwing out there as something that many people believe.
    Why? Is it because it doesn&#8217;t help your argument? Well that&#8217;s fine and all but don&#8217;t make outrageous claims like the one you just made. Ric Flair lost a world title 16 times; does this mean none of those reigns were successful? I hope you don&#8217;t think so because I don&#8217;t. Just because you lose a title it does not mean the reign was not a successful one. In his first reign he defended the title against Chris Jericho and retained it. So he was successful for the amount of time he held the Intercontinental title for the first time. Then he lost it because Jericho had to unmask him in order to win the title. He later won the title back and has had some successful defenses and is still holding the title. So I would say that so far he has been successful in both of his reigns as Intercontinental champion.
    It was a typo.
    Like I said, it doesn&#8217;t matter who had to die for him to win the World Title because he still won it which is what matters here. Anyways, did you ever think that the title was given to him as a thank you for all of his years in the business, kind of how it was reported that that was the reason Chris Benoit was given his world title run? Anyways, it still wouldn&#8217;t make a difference because he won the world title, something he was never able to do in WCW.
    Why? He was forced to wrestle 2 men in order to win the title. That actually makes things harder for him because he has to take out one man then take out the other in order to assure himself the win. How is that not harder than having to defeat one man? Let&#8217;s see your reasoning.
    So we are in agreement that he had to defeat two men in order to assure himself the win in that match.
    Who said it was?
    Kind of how they could also do the same thing to Mysterio, the weakest of all of three in my opinion.
    I totally forgot about that, my apologies. But he still was able to retain the title even if the match went to a no contest which is what matters: the fact that he kept his title.
    He still won the title, didn&#8217;t he? Like I said for his world title run, it doesn&#8217;t matter the reason behind why he won the title but what matters is the fact that he won it. The same applies here.
    So you&#8217;re implying Jericho carried the match because Mysterio didn&#8217;t put up his half of the deal? I disagree with that statement and I think that Mysterio did half the work while Chris did the other half. It takes two men to have a very good match and it was that was the case here.
    Yes he lost the title, but he regained it which is what matters here. He wasn&#8217;t going to allow Jericho to keep the title after the way he won it (taking his mask off) so he decided to challenge him again and was able to win. He was able to regain his title which at the end of the day is what matters most.
    Okay done.
    I have no problem admitting that but we aren&#8217;t debating about his shape. Anyways, it further proves my point that he was able to be successful (the definition of thrive) even though he wasn&#8217;t in the same shape that he was back then.
    He didn&#8217;t thrive more in WCW. He was way more successful in the WWE because of the fact the he won top tier titles and is currently considered to be a main event talent on the Smackdwon brand by me and maybe others.
    Why does that matter. We are not debating when he would have been able to have a better match, we are debating where he thrived more which in this case is the WWE because of the reasons I mentioned before.
    And again I ask you, who ever said that? I didn&#8217;t. I simply said he defeated two other wrestlers. I never once said he won his world title in a handicap match.
    Which makes me ask you this once again, who said he was wrestling 29 other men. I stated that he defeated the other 29 men because he was the winner at the end. I never said he wrestled the other 29 men.
    So what would you consider it? Doing fake moves or is it something else that I didn&#8217;t know about?
    Who said he was? I didn&#8217;t. Obviously he wasn&#8217;t going to be going up against the same guy for over 60 minutes. People get eliminated in that type of match therefore he has to wrestle different guys because the chances of the guy he was wrestling getting eliminated are very likely. So, he obviously wrestled different men.
    Well obviously he has to or else something could happen to him. But he wasn&#8217;t taking 10 minutes breaks throughout the whole match, the breaks went for a couple of seconds or a few minutes but never for a longer amount of time.
    Well you do know the wrestling rings the WWE uses are pretty big so I don&#8217;t know how you came to this conclusion. Anyways, then what the hell was he doing? Standing around looking like an idiot? I don&#8217;t think so. He was wrestling not doing anything.

    Isn&#8217;t that something that wrestlers who wrestle do?
    Who cares? This debate is about Rey Mysterio not those guys.
    Who said he was the only one doing that? If you watch the match carefully then you&#8217;ll notice that there were other wrestlers eliminating people too.
    Is someone denying this?
    Well yeah, that&#8217;s why I watch wrestling for. To see good matches that are entertaining.
    Bravo, he was able to have a match during the time he was in the best shape of his career. If this was a few years ago when Eddie was still alive then I would be more impressed. I know what Mysterio was capable of doing then so it&#8217;s hardly impressive because of the shape he was in.
    That&#8217;s where he might have belonged but not where he thrived. In the WWE he had a world title reign and has main evented occasionally. The definition of thrive is to be successful and that&#8217;s exactly how Mysterio&#8217;s career has been so far in the WWE: successful. I&#8217;m not going to deny he had success in WCW (because he did) but he just found more success in the WWE which is why he thrived more with them.
     
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  7. The Hiphopapotamus

    The Hiphopapotamus The Dude abides

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    In WCW, he wasn't relegated to compete for the title, it's where he started, where he belonged. In order to be relegated, you need to be higher up before dropping down.

    But as you described, thriving can be shown as to prosper. If Rey Mysterio was a fluke champion, I hardly see how that counts as thriving.

    Just because you don't see him as a fluke, doesn't mean others don't aswell. It works both ways.

    He did lose to them aswell during this reign. He lost to JBL and Mark Henry in non-itle matches.
    I meant if he won the Cruiserweight title. I failed to specify that. My apologies.

    I'd just like you to name some of these guys who you think were better in that division. I expect Eddie Guerrerro, but I would like to see the rest. Just, out of curiousity, you know.

    That's your personal opinion, because it helps your argument. Many people agree on Samoa Joe's reign being terrible, but he defended it, right? Just because you retain once or twice doesn't make a reign successful.

    I realised that by the end of my post. Mistakes happen.

    I never said that was the only reason, just that it played a part.
    My reasoning, eh. One man could take out the other, and then Mysterio could just pin him. Simple.

    No, if you kept reading I metioned how it wasn't a handicap match.

    Noone, that's why I said it wasn't.

    So you agree that they could do it.

    So if he brought in a steel chair, for example, and got himself disqualified intentionally, it wouldn't matter, because at least he defended his title.

    No I'm implying that Chris Jericho is a great worker. I'm not saying Mysterio didn't put in his half, just that Jericho made it even better.

    Surely retaining is more important than regaining, no?


    You also said how thrive means to grow, but if he is no longer in that shape, he didn't grow. It's quite obvious.

    At a time when a brand split seperates main eventers over 2 shows. You would expect him to be main event talent, because he is a great wrestler.
    Surely having better matches makes you more successful, which is what you constantly describe as thriving.

    I know you didn't, as I have already said. But you implied it in how he defeated 2 other wrestlers.

    So what would you consider you meant by defeating.

    I'd consider it throughing people who are predetermined to go over a top rope. Yes, fake moves I'd say.

    Exactly, people get eliminated. He could be about to be eliminated, or having trouble with one wrestler, before someone else eliminates the other wrestler.

    So you wouldn't consider a few minutes break in a wrestling match a long time. Because I certainly would. A lot of the time is spent just punching and kicking, which isn't exactly energy sapping. They just stand against the ropes and hit each other.
    If I watched a match that only comprised of punches and midrift kicks, I wouldn't count that as awrestling match. I'd count it as a piece of shit. If I wanted that I'd watch an actual competition like Kickboxing. And I never said that he was standing around like an idiot, I actual specified what he was doing.


    Not for an entire match.
    It was just used an example. Would iit kill you to use a bit of variation.

    My point, he had a lot more help.

    Just thought I'd point that out.

    Glad we agree.

    So you're taking away from the match because he was better back then. That makes sense.

    That’s where he might have belonged but not where he thrived. In the WWE he had a world title reign and has main evented occasionally. The definition of thrive is to be successful and that’s exactly how Mysterio’s career has been so far in the WWE: successful. I’m not going to deny he had success in WCW (because he did) but he just found more success in the WWE which is why he thrived more with them.[/QUOTE]

    Obviously I disagree with that. He belonged in WCW, and it's where he thrived more, in my opinion.
     
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  8. SavageTaker

    SavageTaker Everybody Has A Price!

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    That&#8217;s not what I meant to say. What I meant to say was the he was forced to compete for a lower tier championship. As far as that being where he belongs, it doesn&#8217;t really matter. Vince Russo and a Hollywood actor held the world champion in WCW, so why couldn&#8217;t Rey?

    In WWE he actually held a world champion and competed in the main event. I know that is better than what he was doing in WCW. The definition of thrive is to be successful, which is something he was more of in WWE than in WCW therefore meaning he thrived more in the WWE.
    Here is the definition of prosper:
    Mysterio was successful when he held the World Champion, he was able to defeat and retain his title and against various opponents. How is that not successful?
    The same would apply to you. Just because you see him as a fluke, it doesn&#8217;t mean others do as well. See, it actually does work both ways.
    Where in my post did I mention anything about non-title matches? I didn&#8217;t. I was talking about championship matches in which he retained his title every time he defended except for when he lost it.
    Well, yes Eddie Guerrero is one of them and there others like Dean Malenko and Chris Jericho, just to name two. But it doesn&#8217;t matter who I think was better than him in the cruiserweight division because we aren&#8217;t debating that. We are debating where he thrived more which was in the WWE.
    So being able to defend your title and retain does not make a reign successful? Well that&#8217;s fine and all, but Joe&#8217;s reign was way different that Mysterio&#8217;s. Mysterio had to face people that were bigger than him and he was still able to pull out a win and retain his title. But I repeat again, we aren&#8217;t debating about Joe or anyone else, this is a debate about where Rey thrived most which is WWE because of how successful he was (the definition of thrive).
    Maybe it did maybe it didn&#8217;t. You or me will probably never know but it doesn&#8217;t matter because guess what? He still held a top tier championship in the number one company in the world and that&#8217;s what ultimately matters most.
    But what does it matter since Mysterio still won that match and then went on to defeat both of them in singles competition? He proved that he didn&#8217;t have any problem defeating either one of them after the triple threat match so it shows that it was a harder challenge having to wrestle both of them.
    I didn&#8217;t say it was a handicap match either. I said he defeated two other men. He was the winner of a triple threat match therefore he defeated both of his opponents.
    Yes, they could have just like Mysterio could have helped either one of them take the other wrestler out.
    It wouldn&#8217;t matter because he retained his title. Not because he defended it but because he was able to keep it. A wrestler would do anything (kayfabe wise) to keep their titles.
    So are you admitting Jericho didn&#8217;t carry the match?
    It depends on the situation. In this case regaining was more important because of the way Jericho won the match. If he didn&#8217;t take Rey&#8217;s mask off then yeah, retaining would be more important.
    I never said that so don&#8217;t put words in my mouth.
    It&#8217;s not obvious because they can still grow as wrestlers any time in their careers. But if you don&#8217;t believe me, I&#8217;ll give you an example.

    Didn&#8217;t Stone Cold grow as a wrestler after his years as Stunning Steve Austin? When he was Stunning Steve Austin he was in great shape but during his years as Stone Cold he had to wrestle with an injured neck. So you tell me, did he not grow? If he did then so could Mysterio.
    You can&#8217;t always expect things just because someone is a great wrestler. Didn&#8217;t The Great Khali main event and hold a world champion. Surely you don&#8217;t think he is a great wrestler. But still though, Mysterio is considered to be a main eventer currently something he wasn&#8217;t considered to be in WCW and they had two shows too.
    Who had better matches, Bret Hart or Ric Flair? Who is the more successful one?

    The point is that just because you have great matches it doesn&#8217;t make you more successful. For example I consider Hart the one who was able to have better matches however Flair is the more successful one. See my point?
    Who won the match? Rey Mysterio. Who lost the match? Kurt Angle and Randy Orton. Did he not defeat both of those men since he won and they lost?
    When someone wins a match they defeat the other wrestler(s).
    Not if it is in a match that went for over an hour. If it was a 10 minute match then the answer would be yes.
    They do that to keep the action going without wasting too much energy. Wouldn&#8217;t it be boring if they do a few moves and then stop doing everything in order to regain all of their energy? At least by kicking and punching they keep the action going.
    But that&#8217;s not all there was in the match so it is a wrestling match since there were different things other than kicks and punches.
    But that&#8217;s not the only thing the wrestlers did, so do you still consider it a piece of shit?
    I never said you said that. I questioned what you thought he was doing, which I would consider it be wrestling since he wasn&#8217;t just doing kicking and punching.
    But he still wrestled for the majority of the match.
    I have been using a bit of variation however I&#8217;m not going to compare a match with 2 wrestlers involved to a match that consists of 30 wrestlers.
    I&#8217;m not taking away from the match. It was a good match but I&#8217;m not as impressed as I would be if that match were to happen today. But it was still good nonetheless.
    And I disagree with you.
    We aren&#8217;t debating where he belonged, we are debating where he thrived more which is the WWE because that&#8217;s where he was more successful.
    The definition of thrive is success, was he not more successful in the WWE?
     
    #8
  9. Mr. TM

    Mr. TM Throwing a tantrum

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    Clarity of debate- 1 point
    Both made their points pretty clear, both had a bit of issues however. ST should have had an opening argument to work off of, it really helps out in establishing yourself. But other than that it was really nicely put together. Hip was good as well, but not as consist as ST. ST gets the point here.

    Punctuality- 1 point
    Both had a bit of delays, but ST's warned me of his. He gets the point for that.

    Informative- 1 point
    Great information put through. I really think that ST however should have been able to pull out a lot more. Hip did a great job at his share.

    Emotionality- 1 point
    LOL, this was my favourite part of the debate. When I look at emotion in debates out of some of our long standing posters, I think of IC's cockiness, Sly's straight up attitude, and Shocky's directness. Hip, you are really becoming apart of all three of those styles. You did great, and get this point.

    Persuasion- 1 point
    When I came into the argument, I was leaning towards his WWE career being a lot better thna his WCW. But with Hips informative posting, his ability to address issues better, I came out thinking that Rey had probably a better career..

    TM rates this 3 points Hip to 2 points ST.
     
    #9
  10. Cena's Little Helper

    Cena's Little Helper Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Clarity - Hippopotamus, when you have competition, you clean up nicely! Your debate was much, much easier to follow. SavageTaker, don't get bogged down in lexical definitions; using the dictionary constrained you here in your rebuttals.

    Point: Hippopotamus

    Punctuality - See TM's response.

    Point: SavageTaker

    Informative - Rey Mysterio, Jr., has had a long career, SavageTaker. I admire that you brought in video for support, but, don't limit yourself to one match. Hippopotamus, you were much more general in your analysis of Mysterio, Jr., and that helped you out a lot here.

    Point: Hippopotamus

    Emotionality - SavageTaker, I like how you tailor your responses to how your opponents debate. You were firm, but respectful in this instance. Good job in presenting yourself.

    Point: SavageTaker

    Persuasion - Hippopotamus, your argument brought me back to the good old days of cruiserweight wrestling. Rey Mysterio, Jr., really is one of the most significant junior heavyweights of all time, and one would only need to look to his work in WCW to see that this is true.

    Point: Hippopotamus

    tdigle's Score

    Hippopotamus - 3
    SavageTaker - 2
     
    #10
  11. Blade

    Blade "Original Blade"

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    Clarity: Hiphopa. You worded your points better and didn't ramble on.

    Punctuality: ST. As said above.

    Informative: ST. You bring up stuff from both WWE and WCW, which I thought was intersting.

    Emotionality: Hiphopa. You definately used, for want of a better word, stonger words.

    Persuasion: This argument came down to whether thriving was winning titles or letting your in-ring skill shine. But ST I felt was more persuasive, especially with his Bret Hart/Ric Flair arguement about better matches vs success. ST gets the point here.

    Hiphopa 2 ST 3
     
    #11
  12. Miko

    Miko WATCHA GONNA DO, BROTHER!?

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    Clarity: The pokemon guys points were clearer and easier on my tired eyes, he gets the point here

    Point: hiphopa-pokemon

    Punctuality: Goin' with the flow, points for ST

    Point: SavageTaker

    Informative: Hard choice between the 2, I think hiphopa has the edge here

    Point: hiphopa-pokemon

    Emotionality: I liked hiphopa's attitude in this one, so he gets the point

    Point: hiphopa-pokemon

    Persuasion: Well, I must say, SavageTakers use of the explanation thing was a good idea, hiphopa made a very good case for Rey's WCW years. I think SavageTaker was the more persuasive argument in the end though.

    Points are Hiphopa-pokemon - 3
    SavageTaker - 2
     
    #12
  13. CH David

    CH David A Jock That Loves Pepsi

    Joined:
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    Clarity: Hip always steps it up when he has to. Didn't disappoint.

    Point: Hiphopa-pokemon

    Punctuality: What TM said.

    Point: SavageTaker

    Informative: ST kind of stuck with a few certain matches or reigns as champ, where Hip was able to do a better job pertaining to his whole time in WCW.

    Point: hiphopa-pokemon

    Emotionality: ST is a respectful son of a gun, I love it. Hip had some good passion, but ST was more adament.

    Point: SavageTaker

    Persuasion: This is difficult for me. I hope this isn't redundant, but I've always considered Rey in WCW as better for him as being a big star with the cruiserweights, but I thought he had more success with the E. But Hip persuaded me to his side, and looking back, I have to agree. Rey in WCW was what made him exciting in WWE, because people knew who he was and what he could do.

    Point: hiphopa-pokemon

    CH David scores this hiphopa-pokemon 3, SavageTaker 2.
     
    #13

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