WCW Region, Chicago Region, First Round: (1) Steve Austin vs. (32) Sabu

[The Crock]

I feel like I'm debating this with people who know nothing of ECW or Sabu. Sabu can mat wrestle, he can do submissions, and use moves that take less then 10 seconds to set up. Albeit those aren't the types of matches he made his name with he can still do it, its not like Austin made his name with his pure wrestling ability. We seem to be forgetting he was trained by Ed Farhat (The Sheik) and while some consider him the hardcore pioneer for the pencil and fireball the man was no slouch between the ropes(Neither is Sabu) in fact hes a WWE HOFer.

A weed whacker? That's some New Jack shit not Sabu.

Is he fighting him in water?Oh he is, that kind of favors Aquaman.

It's Sabu's supporters that keep talking about how he's too hardcore for Austin, but I'll be more than happy to look at it from a technical wrestling standpoint. Steve Austin was considered, in some circles, the best in-ring performer in the world... While still in WCW. Before he ever hit it big, he was the best there was. Sabu was mediocre at best. You can't tell me he's a good wrestler, when he's literally known for being a botch machine. Sabu can barely string together a few simple arm drags without screwing it up -- he's terrible. The only reason he was so loved by the ECW audience was because he was one of the craziest people around, not because he was a good technician. That was left to the likes of Malenko and Guerrero, not Sabu.

Austin is simply an overwhelming match-up for Sabu. He's too smart to be caught by some of Sabu's crazy risks, he's too good to be outwrestled by Sabu (though that's pretty common).

 

[Bernkastel]

Yes but with that analogy the people who needed the superhero would be under water. Which meant that Aquaman would be better then Superman.

Your logic makes zero sense, as Superman could just blow away the planet with a breath, just like Stone Cold could just as easily blow away Sabu with a stunner.

The arguement that the ECW region automatically equates to a win for Sabu is stupid considering that not only does Austin have plenty of experience with hardcore matches, but he's beaten bigger stars than Sabu ever has under the same settings.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

So Sabu knows how to use weapons and Austin doesn't? That's the consensus I'm getting from all you Sabunatics. We haven't forgetten that Austin beat the shit out of Rocky with a chair. Austin with weapons is as dangerous as anybody in history. I'll give Sabu five minutes because I'm a nice guy.

 

[Jaffa]

Your logic makes zero sense

For a second there i had thought you had become a little self aware but alas you have not. Sabu is a hardcore wrestler in a hardcore wrestling environment Austin is a brawler/ technician in a hardcore environment. Sabu would win

 

[Natural Selection]

[YOUTUBE]MUoufIFS15E[/YOUTUBE]

Of those moves the atomic arabian face buster takes the longest to set up and is the more often missed one. Sabu doesn't take long to set up most of his moves because most of them involve running which he pretty quick with. And as far as botching goes you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. You guys act like Sabu throws a few punches lays the guy on the table smokes a cigarette takes a piss and then climbs the top rope and dives. No he inflicts substantial damage springs to the top rope and dives.

 

[The Brain]

[YOUTUBE]MUoufIFS15E[/YOUTUBE]

Of those moves the atomic arabian face buster takes the longest to set up and is the more often missed one. Sabu doesn't take long to set up most of his moves because most of them involve running which he pretty quick with. And as far as botching goes you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. You guys act like Sabu throws a few punches lays the guy on the table smokes a cigarette takes a piss and then climbs the top rope and dives. No he inflicts substantial damage springs to the top rope and dives.

Ok you found a Sabu highlight video. How about this one

[YOUTUBE]Af8R83Sn5Rc[/YOUTUBE]

I don't want to completely rip Sabu. My video is an extreme example but many of his signature moves take too long to execute and he does make a lot of mistakes. Bottom line is he's against Stone Cold freakin Steve Austin. Even if I said Sabu is one of the most awesome wrestlers ever he's against one of the most successful and popular wrestlers of all time.

 

[The Crock]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUoufIFS15E
Of those moves the atomic arabian face buster takes the longest to set up and is the more often missed one. Sabu doesn't take long to set up most of his moves because most of them involve running which he pretty quick with. And as far as botching goes you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

...and in Sabu's case, you miss about 95% of the moves you try. Look, it's pretty simple; Sabu takes VERY unnecessary risks. He's a danger to himself, and factoring in the fact that he's facing Steve Austin, it's just too much to overcome. Austin's a very smart wrestler, who doesn't get caught by these risky moves. He'd more than likely let Sabu crash and burn, picking up the scraps for the win. A hardcore environment would be a big advantage for Sabu were he facing someone who's never been in a more hardcore match before, but this is Steve Austin we're talking about. He never hesitated to use a weapon, never hesitated to be as brutal as possible. With the more relaxed rules, he'd surely use that to his advantage.

I'd understand all the arguments for Sabu if Steve Austin wasn't an overall great wrestler, but he is. He's literally good at every facet of wrestling, not include high flying or something like that. Austin would adapt to his environment and snuff out any chance Sabu ever had in this match -- Austin in his prime was an unstoppable force. It doesn't matter what you throw at him, it'll be hard for him to lose unless he's facing another all-time great, but he's not. He's facing Sabu, a middle of the road wrestler, who never accomplished anything outside of his bingo hall.

 

[Jaffa]

Ok you found a Sabu highlight video. How about this one

[YOUTUBE]Af8R83Sn5Rc[/YOUTUBE]

I don't want to completely rip Sabu. My video is an extreme example but many of his signature moves take too long to execute and he does make a lot of mistakes. Bottom line is he's against Stone Cold freakin Steve Austin. Even if I said Sabu is one of the most awesome wrestlers ever he's against one of the most successful and popular wrestlers of all time.

I don't quite understand what this video is saying? No matter how many times Sabu screws up he will end up hitting the move and therefore beat Stone Cold

 

[ThUgNiF1c3nT]

Stone Cold didn't get the nickname the Toughest S.O.B on the Planet for nothing extreme rules or not he is one of the top 3 wrestlers of all time sabu is hiroshima and austin is the us and the atomic bomb total destruction.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

Could this be an upset in the making? Sabu absolutely deserves this one considering its the ECW bracket.

That being said, if it's ECW-style matches, Austin did just as well in hardcore matches during the Attitude Era as anyone else. Still have to go with Austin, but it's a tougher decision than I anticipated at first.

 

[The Crock]

I don't quite understand what this video is saying? No matter how many times Sabu screws up he will end up hitting the move and therefore beat Stone Cold

It took that whole clip, almost an entire minute, to hit a dive to the outside of the ring. That was AFTER RVD kept the Dudleys occupied. Not only won't he have RVD in this match, he won't be able to keep Steve Austin down for that long. You'd have to nearly kill Austin for him to stay down that long. Hell, he'd probably play possum and let Sabu dive, then move out of the way. Austin would have a golden opportunity to turn the tables on Sabu, if this type of a situation ever arose.

In this type of a match, you have to capitalize and keep your opponent down, you have to take advantage of every opening. By running around the ring and miserably failing to connect on a dive, Sabu only gives Steve Austin more time to recover, which is a huge mistake.

 

[Jaffa]

Stone Cold didn't get the nickname the Toughest S.O.B on the Planet for nothing

Compared to Sabu who is known as Suicidal,Homicidal,Genocidal Death- Defying Maniac! in all of Wrestling. I am not bashing Austin but clearly Sabu would beat him in ECW

In this type of a match, you have to capitalize and keep your opponent down, you have to take advantage of every opening. By running around the ring and miserably failing to connect on a dive, Sabu only gives Steve Austin more time to recover, which is a huge mistake.

In this type of match would you also need to keep going in and out of kayfabe when it suited you?

 

[The Brain]

I don't quite understand what this video is saying? No matter how many times Sabu screws up he will end up hitting the move and therefore beat Stone Cold

Nice try. If Sabu struggles like that against Austin he will be on the receiving end of a stunner in a heartbeat. Do you think Austin is just going to stand there and wait for Sabu to hit his move? One other thing you might want to consider, most of Sabu's peers from ECW were all made to be Austin's bitch when they were together. Guys like Tazz, Raven, and Credible were nothing but Austin lackeys. I don't see Sabu doing any better.

 

[Jaffa]

Nice try. If Sabu struggles like that against Austin he will be on the receiving end of a stunner in a heartbeat. Do you think Austin is just going to stand there and wait for Sabu to hit his move? One other thing you might want to consider, most of Sabu's peers from ECW were all made to be Austin's bitch when they were together. Guys like Tazz, Raven, and Credible were nothing but Austin lackeys. I don't see Sabu doing any better.

Going in and out of kayfabe when it suits you good work

 

[Natural Selection]

I mean well hell if its all about who wins more here we go... Sabu was(Win-Draw-Loss) 262-30-61 in ECW and in WWE/F he was 16-3-21 Stone Cold in WWF/E was 156-36-77 and in ECW he was 0-0-2 Thats 288 wins for Sabu and 156 for Austin granted Sabu has 82 losses to Austins 79 but he also wrestled 393 matches to Austins 271 I mean Sabu won more and only lost 3 more matches with 122 more matches wrestled, if we want to go that route math doesn't lie.

Source: http://www.profightdb.com/

 

[The Brain]

Going in and out of kayfabe when it suits you good work

How is this going in and out of kayfabe? Or do you not have an answer? I don't know why you're defending Sabu so much anyway. Can you honestly visualize Sabu pinning Austin's shoulders to the mat? How about Sabu puts up a good fight, does his hardcore death defying moves, and in the end loses to the better man? Your boy can look good in his loss if it will make you feel better but there's no way a glorified indy star beats one of the most successful wrestlers ever.

 

[Jaffa]

glorified indy star beats one of the most successful wrestlers ever.

I believe soon guy beat Shawn Michaels outside a nightclub so much that he had to vacate the IC title. In that same vein Sabu could beat Austin in a ECW match. He is a better high flier and a better hardcore wrestler. That is all that is needed in ECW, in fact some of stone colds abilities would be null in ECW.

 

[The Brain]

I mean well hell if its all about who wins more here we go... Sabu was(Win-Draw-Loss) 262-30-61 in ECW and in WWE/F he was 16-3-21 Stone Cold in WWF/E was 156-36-77 and in ECW he was 0-0-2 Thats 288 wins for Sabu and 156 for Austin granted Sabu has 82 losses to Austins 79 but he also wrestled 393 matches to Austins 271 I mean Sabu won more and only lost 3 more matches with 122 more matches wrestled, if we want to go that route math doesn't lie.

Source: http://www.profightdb.com/

Well damn I'm convinced. Now that I think about it Tatanka was a lot better than Bret Hart in the mid 90s. He did have that two year undefeated streak against a bunch of no name jobbers so he must have been better. While Sabu was beating some ECW schmucks Austin was occasionally losing to stars like Bret Hart and Triple H in between winning world titles.

Seriously, I can't believe I'm debating Sabu against Steve Austin. I think it must be Sabu himself and maybe Bill Alfonso who have signed up to debate this.

 

[Jaffa]

Well damn I'm convinced. Now that I think about it Tatanka was a lot better than Bret Hart in the mid 90s. He did have that two year undefeated streak against a bunch of no name jobbers so he must have been better. While Sabu was beating some ECW schmucks Austin was occasionally losing to stars like Bret Hart and Triple H in between winning world titles.

Sabu winning in ECW would hinder him in ECW matches right? Whereas Austin's victories against the hardcore icons of the WWE make him a dominant force against Sabu in ECW. Think im debating Stone Cold himself and the McMahon family.

 

[The Brain]

I believe soon guy beat Shawn Michaels outside a nightclub so much that he had to vacate the IC title. In that same vein Sabu could beat Austin in a ECW match. He is a better high flier and a better hardcore wrestler. That is all that is needed in ECW, in fact some of stone colds abilities would be null in ECW.

Now who's going in and out of kayfabe? So it's the high flyers that do best in ECW? That's why Shane Douglas, Taz, Raven, and Sandman were champion for most of ECW's tenure? I think Steve Austin is more than capable of handling himself in a brawl. He may not do any fancy moves but he'll easily whack Sabu in mid air with a chair or kendo stick while he wastes time setting up one of his flashy moves.

 

[Jaffa]

He may not do any fancy moves but he'll easily whack Sabu in mid air with a chair or kendo stick while he wastes time setting up one of his flashy moves.

Cause Sabu often started off his matches with those moves

 

[Natural Selection]

So now Benoit, Jericho, Malenko, Raven, Arn Anderson, Terry Funk, Kurt Angle, etc etc etc are schmucks? Hes wrestled all those men and many many more. Hes wrestled the best and beat many of them too.

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler_search/sabu-427.html?opp=105

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Explains why Steve Austin was so successful in ECW then. Lets look at the facts here, in ECW, Steve Austin was a joke.

Because Crock didn't tear you a big enough new one...


You are shitting me, if you call Austin a joke in ECW. And if you seriously believe he was one, then I have names to call you. Austin's promos were phenomenal and downright funny in ECW. If you really bring into context 'oh he got beat by Mikey Whipwreck', go through Rise & Fall of ECW, and see what Heyman says. He wanted the strap on Austin but Austin disagreed and wanted to put off his win a little longer. he would have gotten bigger had he stayed but he then moved to WWF.

Fuck! Check out that mid-match promo between Mikey and Sandman where absolutely steals it with his line about Nancy/Benoit.

 

[The Brain]

So now Benoit, Jericho, Malenko, Raven, Arn Anderson, Terry Funk, Kurt Angle, etc etc etc are schmucks? Hes wrestled all those men and many many more. Hes wrestled the best and beat many of them too.

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler_search/sabu-427.html?opp=105

And Austin beat all of them. Actually I don't remember Austin vs. Funk but he's beaten the rest. Not to mention Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Undertaker, Rock, Foley, etc. Are we really comparing these two guy's resumes? You lose.

 

[Jaffa]

The year Stone Cold was in ECW Sabu was ranked 5 on the PWI rankings compared to Stone Cold who was ranked 43 yer who was better in ECW. To compare ECW to the attitude era is apples and oranges really