Vince Steps Aside...

Discussion in '[Hidden] World Wrestling Entertainment' started by Jack-Hammer, Feb 7, 2018.

  1. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    ...of 205 Live. According to PWInsider.com, Vince McMahon is no longer making the decisions regarding 205 Live. The changes began with last week's episode, which featured new 205 Live General Manager Drake Maverick and kicked off the 16-man tournament that will end at WrestleMania 34 with the crowning of a new WWE Cruiserweight Champion.

    The report alleges that Triple H is now overseeing 205 Live, he's the one making all the decisions and he has brought back some of the aspects of the WWE Cruiserweight Classic tournament, including the style and presentation of the wrestlers. Vince had personally worked with the Cruiserweight wrestlers to bring out their personalities to present them in a certain way but there has been more focus on the in-ring work under Triple H.

    The report goes onto mention some of the various talk backstage in regards to 205 Live over the past few months. Chiefly, the talks have been about why 205 Live simply wasn't getting over the way Vince had hoped and expected. As I mentioned earlier, Vince believed that a character-driven show was the best way to get the brand over, which is Enzo Amore was brought over to be the top star of the brand. Enzo's arrival is said to have helped with viewership and buzz for the show but there were still people in the company that wanted to present the show like the Cruiserweight Classic was presented. Their feeling was that having the lighter echoing the guys from RAW and SmackDown was not going to showcase what made the cruiserweight talents unique, and it wasn't going to help 205 Live grow into its own brand, more than just a weekly WWE Network TV show.

    The product we've seen over the last few weeks is said to be very much in line with the original plans for 205 Live before Vince became personally involved with the direction of the show and the development of the cruiserweight talents. The plan, according to the report, is to focus on rebuilding the brand by centering on strong athletic characters and strong in-ring competition.

    In my opinion, 205 Live has been far better the past couple of weeks and for the first time in a really long time, I'm interested and excited to watch the show. I also agree with the notion that simply having the smaller guys parrot what's being done on Raw or SmackDown Live doesn't do anything to make the Cruiserweights stand out. When many fans think of a Cruiserweight/Junior Heavyweight/Light Heavyweight division, or whatever name you want to call it, they think of WCW's Cruiserweight Division that featured some of the best in-ring action you'd see on Monday nights, whether it was Raw or Nitro. While I'm still not exactly a fan of limiting wrestlers based on how much they weigh, I do have vastly more confidence in Triple H handling this than I had with Vince.
     
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  2. Navi

    Navi With the safety off!!

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    Giving Vince McMahon all the credit in the world for building this company to where it is now, but in saying that he should step aside and let the kids run the place. Vince is losing his touch now. Don't know if it's age or just that he's stuck in the old days, but the fanbase has changed and Vince hasn't changed with it.

    The fact that he twice put the top title on a part time wrestler, and watched the rating's on his flagship show sink to some of the lowest ever should have told him that. I also can't believe with the size of the roster the WWE has, we still have to watch the same matches week after week. No wonder wrestler are starting to get injured again. Some work like dogs, others are nohwere to be found.

    I watched 205 Live when it first debuted and liked it. It quickly became just another hour of RAW to me and I stopped watching. Maybe it's time to take another look. The loss of Neville, whether the WWE wants to admit it or not but harsh. Especially when they lost him over someone like Enzo.

    Hopefully HHH can turn the ship around. It won't happen overnight, but got my fingers crossed he can do it.
     
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  3. Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.

    Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. Kamehamehaaaaa!!

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    It's for the best. 205 live has no implications on the main product of the WWE. It's an extra, a spin-off. So why would Vince be bothered with that anyway? He already needs to oversee a large roster of talented superstars.

    Great news. Maybe the cruiserweights will finally be able to unlock their full potential.

    Rey Mysterio is also in talks with the WWE. Rey joining the new 205 division would be the icing on the cake. However the total great news would be Neville coming back.

    Plus, if HHH can somehow connect 205 to NXT.. there are a lot of NXT guys that would do wonders in the division and lot of cruiserweights that could become the next faces of NXT.
     
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    Wildcat66 likes this.
  4. Jeff Deliverer of Mail

    Jeff Deliverer of Mail Money for nothin, chicks for free
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    Man I really hope this is a trickle down effect where he let's Triple H take over SD next then eventually Raw. The product needs a bit of a fresh overhaul writing wise and I think it'll thrive under Triple H/Steph. Especially Raw, for a three hour program you'd think they'd have ONE compelling storyline going on, but not really.
     
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  5. The Samoan Heritage

    The Samoan Heritage Getting Noticed By Management

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    As much as I hate to admit it, mainly because people give triple H way too much credit and seem to forget that his ego can be just as stubborn as Vince's at times, but I digressed. 205 really has been great, the last two weeks. The matches don't feel as formulated as they did in the past. Plus the addition of an active GM really adds credibility to the show. So far, i've enjoyed Mr. Maverick in his new role.

    I like the changes so far, but one of their biggest problems that they must address are the dead crowds. The complete silence almost ruin the matches. I don't see what's the issue with having 205 live before Smackdown or if it leads to better crowds, I would be fine if 205 live was pre-taped at a separate venue.
     
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  6. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    In regards to whether 205 Live should be character-driven, or based on the in-ring product, I think both are vitally important.

    I mean, yes, have them put on outstanding matches, and matches that are unique to cruiserweights and 205 Live.

    But just as important is to make us care about the characters, and the storyline building.

    I have always thought that a vital ingredient is not only the match itself, but why they are fighting and how they got there.

    Crusierweights should be built with personalities different from one another, and make them stand out.

    Most stars in WWE have been good in the ring AND on the mike. So I think both Vince and Triple H equally have valid things to offer in this regard.
     
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  7. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    Here's the problem I see with this, while it might be beneficial for viewership of 205 live on the network, that's not what the crowd going to smackdown seem to want.

    They want to see stars, not great wrestling. Case in point, Roderick strong vs hideo itami. Awesome match, i got to give credit to them, but nobody cared about them at all. They we're playing on their cellphone or doing other stuff waiting for the dark match. You put the same match in a NXT environment and they get the biggest reaction of the night.

    I always thought that it would have been more beneficial for the 205 live brand if you took them out of the main roster environment and put them back in the NXT environment we're they would get great reactions every time. If you want to have a more sports feeling to your product, don't put it after 2 sports entertainment shows (smackdown and MMC) because you won't get any reaction from the fans for that type of wrestling from a crowd that came to see sports entertainment.

    So until, HHH gets that WWE fans cares more about the whole presentation and not just the in ring performance, he won't be able to replace Vince permanently and this 205 live experiment is doom to fail even if you get only match of the year candidate.
     
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  8. neildittmar

    neildittmar Getting Noticed By Management

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    If NXT is the experimental brand in the WWE portfolio of products, the Cruiserweight show should represent risk taking with both the in-ring product as well as the characters, storylines, etc.

    Vince stepping aside is the right move, for no other reason than his roots are too deep in a heavyweight / sports entertainment type atmosphere. This direction simply doesn't work for the younger, lighter guys. The entire point of a show like this is to showcase their abilities that run completely counter to what's shown weekly on Raw/Smackdown, and even NXT to a degree.

    After Vince's segueing out of the product, the next step should be to change the name. 205 Live really tells casual wrestling fans (and especially non-fans) nothing about what they're going to see if they tune in. While the more knowledgeable will get that 205 refers to the proposed weight limit of the competitors, I think it's foolish to erect such barriers as "cruiserweight" is more of a style definition than one concerned with weight restrictions. Truth be told I'm not sure what I would call the brand/show offhand, but it must be immediately representative of the competitors and action that I'm going to see.

    My next step would be to transition the cruiserweights from a RAW / preshow afterthought to something completely separate and removed. While WCW gets credit for their cruiserweight division, ECW was showcasing those types of talents even before they were, giving guys like Eddie Guerrero and Dean Malenko main event spots. Naturally, I think Paul Heyman would be an excellent fit in developing and refining the current crop of cruiserweight talents and turning them into stars... initially within the confines of "the cruiserweight show", but potentially in a move up to NXT or even RAW/Smackdown. Bottom line is I believe their exposure on RAW actually hurts the brand and it's competitors more than it helps.

    Finally, the brand needs a de facto star to give it notoriety and recognition in the early goings. While certainly a mouthpiece and personality, Enzo wasn't it... even before his brushes with trouble and eventual release. Rey Mysterio actually seems like a natural fit here, as he is known by even the most casual of wrestling fans and is still looked upon as a "top guy" amongst cruiserweights and their style. The trick is, you've got to turn him heel in a convincing manner, put the cruiserweight title on him, and have your best guy(s) chase after him for the belt. Again Paul Heyman can help in not only molding Rey as a heel, but bringing the younger guys up to look like serious competition for him and create compelling stories surrounding them.

    tl,dr; Vince dropping the reins on 205 Live is ultimately a good thing, but the true growth of that brand will rely specifically on what happens afterwards.
     
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  9. Macho Mans Beard

    Macho Mans Beard 'The Bringer of Rain'

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    I would love to see 205 in the NXT Arena. WWE can still have the 205 match during Raw as more of a big feud builder that can be a preview of the 205 show on Wednesday.

    I think that character development needs to be minimal. When WCW did the Cruiserweights they got very little mic time (Exclude Jericho) But they were able to tell a story in their matches. Promos were usually very short but got the point across. The fans were won over by the athleticism and great matches. I always said the CW had some of the best matches on Nitro, HANDS DOWN.

    Also WWE needs to let these guys go out and do their stuff with no restrictions. Thats has been my problem with the CWD since it started. The moves just looked watered down, or they were not impactfull enough. I know they want to avoid injury but they know that what they do is high risk anyways, so why not let them go 100% balls out and put on a great match every time.

    Once people recognize that 205 has turned more into a brand with great matches, the ratings will go up substantially.
     
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  10. CyberPunk

    CyberPunk The Show himself

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    I think it's less to do with crowd being not interested and more to do with the show being after Smackdown. 205 live would be hell of a more effective if it begins the night for the crowd. By the end of SD, they have pretty much seen all the big stars and exhausted. The crowd can certainly appreciate a well constructed match if it's before exhaustion sets in.
     
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  11. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    But the problem with that is quite simple, If you put 205 live before the Smackdown taping, they're a pretty good chance that one of 2 things will happen. Either a) the fans won't show up early to see the 205 live taping or b) fans will be so exhausted for watching the 205 live matches that they won'T responds to your main product.

    So that kinda the problem they have right now with 205 live especially if they want to present it as a completely different type of product. You really can't have a wrestling show either follow or precede a sports entertainment show. That's 2 completely different type of crowd. NXT works because it's a wrestling show that attract wrestling fans, 205 live is becoming more of a wrestling show now so put it with the wrestling show.

    The other problems you have is that the cruiserweight division as a whole, is still looked at as a lower mid card act. The fact that they don't stand out on Raw, are pretty much the main event of main event every week and are pretty much relegate to the pre show on every ppv doesn't help the perception of the division for the normal fans, to them, you can have all the 5 stars matches you want, if they don't connect to the characters, they won't react to the matches. That's why Kalisto vs lince dorado had some great reaction throughout there match and Roderick vs Hideo didn't. Kalisto and Lince are characters that look like superheroes and do stuff that nobody else can do so fans of all ages will react to that and connect to characters like them, Roderick is a great wrestlers and he had a great match with hideo but he's just plain boring. What character trait does he have that will make fans connect to the character? That's kinda the problem with most of the cruiserweights at the moment, they are great wrestlers but they need to be more then that to connect with the majority of the fans in attendance.

    In the end, until you're able to change what fans thinks of the cruiserweight division in general, it won't matter if you have great matches every week because you're always get the same reaction every week no matter where they tape the show. They need to take them away from Raw because it sure doesn't help them being there and just start the whole project from scratch as a extension of NXT instead.
     
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  12. Vintage Punk

    Vintage Punk Pre-Show Stalwart

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    A step in the right direction but their no where near what it was during the classic. If they're gonna continue with 205 Live then put it at Full Sail or wherever else they're taping NXT. That is the crowd type that the Classic was in front of and needs to be. Casuals just won't care for guys like a Gulak, Neese, Dorado, Metalik, Gallagher, etc. Especially if they continue to go on after SD is over. The crowd is tired and not gonna pop big for these guys after having seen AJ, Nakamura, Orton, Bryan, Owens, etc. Make the tapings at Full Sail or just scrap 205 weight class and bring those guys under NXT banner and make NXT 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Hell, they already have guys like Strong, Bate, Dunne, etc versus cruiserweights anyways. Plus, it gives a midcard title in NXT as you could also include guys like Adam Cole, Eric Young, Lio Rush, the incoming Ricochet, Ciampa, Bobby Fish, Kyle O'Reilly, etc. Imagine having it in NXT and then them bringing into NXT guys that didn't sign who were in CWC like an Ibushi and Sabre Jr
     
    #12
  13. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    I was watching 205 live this morning and again, same thing that happened the previous week, you had 2 really good matches that no one seem to cares about. So it go me thinking, since pretty much the entire division is perceive as nobodies from the fans maybe with the exception of Kalisto, who could you bring into the 205 live brand to give it more star power and actually have the fans interested in what's going on within the division now. So what i come up with might not be a popular thing but how about putting Finn bàlor into the tournament.

    I Feel that if a big upper mid card guy that won the universal championship would be willing to show up and wrestled in the cruiserweight division, it would get the fans attention and help the rest of the division a shine they desperately need right now.

    Here how i would do it, How much guys they want to put in this tournament but let's just say that's it's a 32 man tournament. Next week you already got you're 2 match planned but at the end of the night you announce next week matches. Let's say the first match is between 2 NXT guys and the other match is announce as a NXT guy vs a mystery opponent. Then on next weeks show, you have the first guy arrive for the main event and then have Drake maverick come out and mention how he was able to make a deal with Raw GM Kurt Angle so he could use this superstar in the cruiserweight title tournament, the light goes out a finn's music hits. the crowd goes wild for this reveal and just have Finn go through to the finals with somebody that'S less of a star like Cedric Alexander and you let Alexander win the title on the main mania card. That way, you just made a new star for the 205 live brand and at the same time you made fans discover the new version of the 205 live brand because the only way this thing will get over is with star power pretty much like how NXT got over because of the star power they had.
     
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  14. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    it might be just me but did 205 live this week feel like they we're slowly going backward with the same formula they had before. Plus does the tournament really feel special anymore since all the big stars that should be in the finals are on one side of the bracket and guys that i would have put in the finals if my life depended on it are on the other side.

    You look at the line up for the rest of the tournament.

    Next week you got : TJP vs cedric alexander: wrestlemania worthy match
    Roderick strong vs kalisto: wrestlemania worthy match
    the winners will face each other in 2 weeks which whatever the combination is a wrestlemania worthy match.

    On the other side you have mustafa ali vs buddy murphy and drew gulak vs mark andrews. Are either of these four guys screaming wrestlemania participant? Not really

    The more i watch this, the more i feel like this final will be a kickoff match put in the dead slot of the show when nobody will be in the stadium yet which for a rebranding of the show is a terrible spot to put it in but the more they advance in the tournament the more i feel like this will just be yet another letdown cruiserweight match that got no importance, i really hope i'm wrong about this but when you put all you're mania worthy matches on tv, it doesn't give me high hope.
     
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  15. JoeMallard

    JoeMallard Getting Noticed By Management

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    Gulak has been one of the best characters in the entire company this year, Murphy is in fantastic shape and is a fresh face that deserves to be in a top spot, Ali is a guy they are highly invested in. Gulak vs Neese was absolutely fantastic last week and Ali vs Gallagher had a great match that told an even better story. The matches in the tournament have had more meaning and felt more important than any single match on Raw or Smackdown. TJP and Kalisto are bottom feeders and if either one was in the finals it would most certainly be preshow bound.
     
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  16. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    But at the same time, i have to go with who gets the better reaction from the crowd when i'm judging who feel the most important. TJP for all his fault does get a reaction, not a big one but he gets a better reaction as a heel then gallagher did last tuesday or even gulak got the week before. As for Kalisto, out of everybody in the tournament, he's the biggest star on the roster right now. Him, gran metalik and lince derado are the only one that actually gets some sort of pop from the crowd every time they show up. Fans gets excited for their matches which is something that doesn't happen often for 205 live so to called down bottom feeders is really not knowing what wrestling is suppose to be about.

    If i'm booking the tournament, i'm looking at who gets a reaction from the crowd and i go with them for as long as i can. Sadly as much as i like murphy, Ali and Gulak, there not getting people invested anymore. Gulak was the most entertaining part of 205 live but they decided to take everything that made him interesting in the first place and turn him into a cookie cutter heel wrestler. Same goes for pretty much everybody on the roster right now, so when you get somebody like a kalisto that can actualy get people to stop looking at there phone and pay attention to a match then use him to get the division over and that's why i don't get why all the stars are on one side of the bracket and all the bottom feeders as you called TJP and kalisto are on the other side because for me, sadly, Gulak, Murphy, Ali and andrews are pretty much just that, four guys that shouldn't be in a mania match but anyway, does it matter anyway since that match probably will end up on the pre show and it's just fighting to find out which spot it will get on the preshow.
     
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