TNA should look back at WWE when they moved past WCW

Discussion in 'The Wrestling Archives' started by waylonmercy, Aug 25, 2010.

  1. waylonmercy

    waylonmercy In Waylon Mercy's Hands

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    When TNA first started up they were fresh and relatively good. They had LOTS of fresh young talent who were independent stars and made a bit of noise. Enough to get people to check out the show and garner some interest. Forgive me if I am wrong but they had talent such as Kaval, Red, Styles who weren't at the time good enough for WWE but could put on a hell of a match. You had CM Punk who had a good indy following, they brought in Samoa Joe who had a good indy following and all could put on a good match. The best part about them is that they work for CHEAP! They have NO name value when it comes to commanding $$ but yet they work harder than most of the establish talent and 95% of the veterans there today. As they built a bit they were clever enough to sign talent who could also work like Angle & Christian and they were developing talent very well. TNA could have very easily signed all the ROH and skilled indy talent at that time and established a SOLID wrestling first national promotion and as time went by build THEIR OWN STARS! That's what WWE did 15 years ago. They couldn't afford the Nash's, Hall's, Hogan's, Savage's, Piper's etc. and brought in younger talent. Some were hits and some were misses but WWE was smart enough to throw out the waste and bring in fresh talent and didn't get stale. They believed so much in developing talent that they established farm systems like OVW and HWA that groomed talent the WWE way. TNA had the opportunity to keep the good and release the trash, some talent makes it (AMW was someone they developed nicely) and some talent gets released and goes back to the indy's. Obviously theyh ave a lot of financial backing, otherwise they wouldn't have all these old wrestlers there right now. They could have locked up the NEW STARS to long term contracts and established their own following. They had all the tools to do so. THere is so many indy wrestlers who are STARVING for a break. Instead they have pigs who are making 6 figures working dud matches with their thinning hairline or their greying hair and boring the hell out of us. WCW was a disaster at the end and TNA is going that route. WWE may be the big dog in the USA but there is no reason why TNA can't be a very profitable, successful promotion who builds up the same way WWE did 15 years ago...

    BY BUILDING THEIR OWN STARS NOT BUYING THEM!
     
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  2. realdealasshole

    realdealasshole Pre-Show Stalwart

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    I had absolutely no problem with having people like Flair, Nash, Sting brought in as the really old veterans because they have helped establish stars. Flair is making the guys in fortune get more character and seem more powerful as wrestlers. Nash helped Lethal, Eric Young at a point, and Sonjay Dutt. Sting has helped make champions a bit more credible by having them beat him as an iconic figure.
    I absolutely love the idea of bringing in Mr. Anderson because he's young and can carry the company if given the shot and not booked by idiots (unlikely in TNA). I like having Jeff Hardy in TNA because he does have a following and kids like him.

    Here's where the problem comes in though. Bringing in ECW has officially made me give up on TNA ever becoming a success. They have absolutely nothing to bring to the table and are only robbing people of air time.

    Instead of wasting money on ECW guys, they could've brought back people like Daniels, Austin Starr, etc. Given more shots to people like Amazing Red, Samoa Joe, etc.

    TNA can and should easily be able to increase ratings. But they won't. Why? Because they are looking past what was able to bring them success in the first place. The X division and homegrown talent willing to do anything to make a name for themselves. You wanna throw in established stars in the mix every now and then? I say hell yes. But don't let them take up most of the time.
     
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  3. mrbooker

    mrbooker Pre-Show Stalwart

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    The facts are you need the old timers in their because people 20 and older grew up on hte monday night wars and ECW, ans especially with older wrestling fans guys like your hogan, flair, sting thats going to get attention from older watchers who might check it out and in the process see an AJ styles or a Ken Anderson. The problem with bringing guys back like daniel, amazing red etc.... is because TNA doesnt have a strong base to begin with who is the best in TNA without argument??? TNA is building their main angle for bound for glory they cant focus on mid card matches/feuds which is exactly where daniels would be right now if he was on air every week.
     
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  4. Marcesto Del Santos Vega

    Marcesto Del Santos Vega Dark Match Jobber

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    First lets start with Jeff Jarret, I believe he holds grudges with VKM for the reason he never got anywhere in wwe. So he came up with TNA a wrestling show where there stars are wwe dropouts or werent good enough to compete on a raw main event. Why does TNA keep picking up wwe nobodies??? its almost like TNAs wrestler qualifications standards are "the wrestler wasnt good enough" WWE build stars in 3-6 months look at brock lesner was wwe champ 6 months and to be a wwe champ is big it means you are a "draw" though i stand corrected BY MY OWN SELF I can't really say shaemus is a draw but back to my point WWE builds stars in no time CM PUNK, JACK SWAGGER, WADE BARRET, and so on how long has aj styles been in TNA? and can not cut a promo and look like he gets his haircuts in gaybash california. TNA is dwelling on the same stars for years or picks up wwe cuts. HELL TNA is too southern probably prais that confederate shit in the locker rooms. BRING in some new guys stop with the whole samoa joe, chris sabin, sting, abys im so tired of these guys. WWE wassmart they brought in Alberto Del Rio who does tna bring? Orlando jordan hes as tough as a play girl model. tho i did enjoy the whole FN show TNA does not bring that type of quality everyweek. think about tho they got low ratings they were still praised and can put on the best show in history does not mean they will get the rating its all in "CONSISTENCY"



    yea and these old stars are dilusional its a new day and new age WWE does not rely on old stars unless they can keep up with the younger guys like undertaker, the rock,jericho KANE, HELL i think wwe went the TNA route bringing Bret Hart Back. but in all fairness they build stars MIZ is on fire while Styles is..................... GAY not sayin he cant wrestle but damn i hate his promos.


    one more thing I cant stand sting, nash, eric young, foley and all the has beens/ never were like steven richards



    LET THE HATING BEGIN
     
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  5. vampirek

    vampirek The below sentence is a lie

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    What the hell are you on about? People don't tune in to see the old timers (this is reflected in the ratings alone). You say about people who grew up with the Attitude Era, lets get this straight they cared more about the younger guys than the has been repeating storyline after storyline. So to say they are now tuning in to see the has beens repeating storylines is far off the mark.
    Now on to the rest of the silly post. I bet a large amount of the audience knows how Ken Anderson/Kennedy is and as for AJ, he has a huge following and much larger than what you think it is.
    As for building their main angle and can't focus on the midcard. What the hell, a wrestling company should never rely on its main event. Ever. It needs a strong midcard, its where WWE have been going wrong for many years now. The midcard builds the future, the future feuds and so on. Its very valuable to a company and by doing so a company can establish their own wrestlers, with a career in the company behind them rather than filling the roster full of guys people are sick to death of seeing.
     
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  6. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

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    Okay.. here we go - the two main storylines at the present -

    Sting, Hogan, Nash and Jarrett - a storyline that makes sense; two aging stars who (apparently) want to hold their spots while the founder and the new boss want the new guys to shine. This hasn't been stretched across the two hours of Impact but compacted into one segment - hardly hogging the spotlight and it gives the nostalgia fiends amongst us happy.

    EV2.0 Vs Fortune - this also makes sense and can operate as an ECW rub on the organisation; young guys not appreciating old washed up garbage wrestlers hogging their PPVs and TV time, so they take things into their own hands.

    Outside this, TNA has a Tag Division to be very proud off. Plus Angle, Anderson, Hardy and Dinero are to tustle for the World Belt. And finally the carrot that is the mystery of 'them'.

    I like TNA at the moment, the capable are doing the vast majority of the wrestling and talking has taken a back seat to matches. Is everything perfect? Hell no, the XDivision doesn't get anywhere close to enough TV time. The Knockouts division is too light for my liking, but if rumours are to be believed this should be in the process of changing.

    No, it's not perfect but compared to the early days of the Hogan/ Bischoff regime when there was famously a quarter of an hours wrestling in a two hour show and characters like Val Venus, Nasty Boys, Bubba and Hall and Waltman were running around? Nirvana
     
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  7. snoopy

    snoopy Pre-Show Stalwart

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    While I agree with your thoughts I have to say that 15 years ago the WWE didn't exactly bring everybody up from OVW.AUSTIN,Triple H ,MICK FOLEY,VADER,LOD,MARC MERO,and a few others came from other places namely WCW. The thing was they gave these guys a chance to become something and that's something WCW didn't give them.

    And I see TNA as no diffrent with guys like POPE, MR.ANDERSON and MATT MORGAN!But the problem is that there's so much focus on where these guys came from and not on wheter these guys got a chance in the WWE.They didn't they got fired like AUSTIN,TRIPLE H, and others now their in TNA and getting a chance to become something like those legends of 15 years ago!
     
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  8. disturbedbob

    disturbedbob Dark Match Winner

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again. The older guys are there because they are names in the industry who draw attention. The idea is for the old guys to be hyped and then the young kids beat them, thus establishing them as genuine believable stars of the future.

    I saw someone say some derogatory things about AJ. Well, I hate to piss on your parade but he just happens to be No 1 on the PWI500. Not bad for a boring guy who can't cut promos.

    Have the majority of WWE fans forgotten about.....um....wrestling. OMG he said the w word.

    I don't care how good Miz's promos are he can't wrestle. If you want to talk about boring, lets talk about Supercena, or Orton's predictable match endings, or just Raw in general (minus Santino and Seamus). Smackdown is by far and away better than Raw, at least I get to see wrestling. Look at all the guys buried on Raw who have thrived on SD. I even see more wrestling in 2 matches on Superstars than I see on Raw....but I digress.

    EV2 had their PPV tribute to ECW. I enjoyed it for what it was, a lot of people didn't. I like the fact that TNA chose to mention in detail Joey Styles and Paul Heyman. If this was a WWE show and these two weren't on it, then they would not have existed in the WWE universe. I liked the honest way TNA approached this as a tribute. Let's also remember that Tommy Dreamer is the only guy so far (I haven't read any spoilers) who has actually competed on Impact in a match. It's the old guys against the new kids (similar to the Nexus angle that everyone seems to be orgasming about) difference being the new kids can all wrestle, can all cut promos and can all have matches with any talent on the roster, hence showing adaptability. The Nexus can't (not even Barrett, don't forget his botch against Henry). Bottom line is Fortune batter the hell out of EV2 and become even more of a hot prospect. They will keep the guys who can still go and cut the others. There will be some swerve involving the Nash/Sting/Jarrett/Hogan situation, but I don't know what......but thats why I love TNA because it's so unpredictable.

    I'm fed up of some WWE posters on this site who talk about Raw like its amazing. It sucks....and guess what? Ratings just dropped again. For a Florida based company TNA is keeping afloat and pulling off consistent ratings, which are already a third of what Raw does. Impact beats Superstars and NXT on a regular basis, but no one mentions this. In fact in the UK Xplosion gets better ratings than Raw, never mind Impact. TNA isn't perfect, but with time and great storylines it can be. I fear Raw will never be good again. Not as long as I have to put up with guys in the title picture like Miz, Orton, Barrett and the rest of Nexus, whilst burying Jericho, Edge, Morisson, Regal, MVP (who I don't even like but at least he has wrestling ability) Notice what these guys have in common? Throw in Kane, Swagger, CM Punk and Rhodes and you'll notice they are all better off on Smackdown.

    I know some of that rant had nothing to do with the OP, but I had to get it off my chest, because of stupid comments like 'AJ is boring' or 'TNA will die soon'. I love wrestling and for that reason I hope TNA pushes WWE to better there product so we can all benefit. Instead of WWE just throwing in green guys who have the 'It' factor or the 'mic skills' but can't wrestle for shit.
     
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  9. Stormlor

    Stormlor Pre-Show Stalwart

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    @ OP

    They couldn't get the money. There ratings have always been in the dumps. They got the RVD, the Booker Ts to help bring in an audience. That didn't work so well did it. There is two simple things you can do to improve the TNA product. One fire Dixie, and two get off Spike TV.
     
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  10. Marcesto Del Santos Vega

    Marcesto Del Santos Vega Dark Match Jobber

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    what are you kidding me buddy?? u must work for TNA cuz u sure are kissing ass.... AJ styles i have seen every match hes been in. TNA guys are wanna bes of WWE, think about it you ASS Smooch. ( hope i dont get another infraction) AJ already sold his soul wanting to be the next Jericho/Rock/Orton. those
    TNA guys are WWE wannabes. though Raw is stale i fast forward through it everytime I like barret, the nexus angle is great! i watch raw for the great story lines. smackdown for wrestling and tna for.....???? to watch time limit matches, run in interferences and old has beens who cant wrestle a 5 min match and then be hailed as TNA classic. AJ is on pwi? so wat.........SO WHAT i think the blu meany ws on that same damn cover. point is who R u? and what do you know about anything!

    CLB CREEPY LITTLE BASTARD- STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN
     
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  11. VencomHardcore

    VencomHardcore Pre-Show Stalwart

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    First of all , I NEVER HEAR anyone who watches wrestling EVER talk about Nash, Sting , Hogan or the rest of the Geriatric Crew when I go to WWE , DG, ROH or CZW. So saying that those stars get attention is BS at the highest level. The ratings have not increased one iota with any of these stars.

    Impact Beating NXT - I don't know what news you are reading but IMPACT is not consistently beating NXT. And in the UK, TNA is on FREE tv and Raw is on paid, so you can't make that comparison. Put Apples vs Apples.

    Now on to my thought...

    TNA is obsessed with Nostalgia. This ECW storyline is the biggest waste of TV Time EVER. HOW IN THE HELL DID SABU GET AN X DIV TITLE SHOT. You go to be kidding me? You have guys that put on great matches like Kendrick and Red who can pull viewers if they are really showcased and promoted. But no. Dixie brings in the geriatric crew again robbing the talent.

    And Before anyone says the you need Old Veterans for Publicity, look at ROH.

    They don't have the budget, production values or the veterans [ outside WGT ] and yet they have a tremendous following and outsell TNA at PPV shows. And it's remarkable that they do so well considering you can ONLY get them on TV in 4 Cities. Yet everyone knows about the company and how good the product is. Most people just don't have access to it.

    So they are doing without veterans, legends, and Icons. TNA has no excuse. It comes down to having a plan and knowing what brought you to the dance. TNA has forgotten that. Forget WWE, Act as if they don't exist and put on great matches and simplify the storylines.

    If you get talent, take the talent that wasn't used correctly and build them to the stars and Drop off the has beens at Shady Acres except Ric Flair who knows how to put people over by using mic skills.
     
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  12. disturbedbob

    disturbedbob Dark Match Winner

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    hahaha Number 1, I'm not your buddy. Number 2 I don't work for TNA. Number 3 my lips aren't chapped unlike some people on here who kiss Vince's ass on a regular basis. No one in TNA is trying to be like Rock/Jericho/Orton, maybe Flair, Hogan and Savage, and to me thats not a bad thing. TNA guys are not WWE wannabes, they are using something familiar to get over, similar to say Dibiase, Supercena and Randy 'The Snake' Orton. The only guys trying to be Rock/Jericho are Miz and Batista (hell he even stole from Goldberg and Warrior) Shame neither guy can wrestle. Yet Batista is a 5 time champ (I think) and Miz is apparently the best thing since sliced bread. Thats 'sports entertainment' for ya.

    You also contradict yourself, you say Raw is stale and you fast forward through it every time and then you say you watch Raw for the great storylines. Have I missed something here??

    OK so there are rarely time limit matches (since when was this a bad thing?) in WWE, instead we have 2 title matches at SS. One ends in a no contest (Zig/Kofi) and another in DQ (Seamus/Orton), but thats OK, right?

    Don't talk about 5 min matches either. Seamus defended his world title in a 3 sec squash. I actually enjoyed this cause I can't stand Ryder. Santino/Koslov must have been out there 3 mins squashing The Usos who are apparently supposed to help redefine the awful tag division. A 5 min Diva match, which was 3 mins longer than usual. Jericho pins a giant who can't wrestle in 4 mins. Do you actually watch Raw? Oh no sorry I forgot, you fast forward through it.

    Run in interferences??? Nexus for the last 2 months.....HELLO? I thought this was the one angle you enjoyed, thought you might at least have watched it.

    Old hasbeens who can't wrestle a match? Bret Hart anyone? Headlined WM and SS. Think before you talk man. At least Bret had a great past. Some of these new guys coming through are just average or even below average. They are new blood and they cant wrestle a match. Only new guys who are ready right now are Danielson and Kaval (props to ROH and TNA definitely not FCW) I think Alex Riley has potential, he's already better than Miz. I like Barrett too, but he's not ready yet. Huskys a dark horse.

    PWI has been around in the wrestling industry, longer than you and I have probably been born.....thats what. If you don't like Styles, fine. I do and so do a lot of people who work in the wrestling industry. So much so he ended up being Number 1 in PWI. Only new WWE guy in the top 10 was Seamus. WWE used to own this list, thats why it was quite shocking to see Styles at Number 1 and imo deservedly so.

    By the way, like it says above I'm disturbedbob and it seems I know quite a bit more than you.
     
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  13. rondiesel2005

    rondiesel2005 Getting Noticed By Management

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    here thing problem i have with TNA and i said this before in other post is that i would say couple years ago they had a great number of young wrestlers, they had all the talent, i mean they had everything that was different from WWE, and somehow they dont know what to do with them in terms of storylines..I can understand bringing some guys who were let go from WWE to help improve the company,but they want to bring former ECW guys like Tommy dreamer who can't even draw the fans or help to increase the ratings to me isn't good for business because of all the young guys they got, they are pushing them aside because they clearly can't come up with a simple storyline for some of the young guys, am talking about wrestlers like Amazing Red or Brain Kendrick


    What i been noticing lately is that the matches are wayy to short. I thought this was Total Nonspot Action?? why are the matches under 5 minutes its crazy. I know the TNA fans want to see a really good 10 to 15 minute match, entertain us are we asking for too much, but instead they doing more Promos than instead of wrestling for more than 5 minutes. All i want to see is a 5 star match to show that this is wrestling

    one more thing, what's wrong with giving the championship belt to The Pope or Anderson, i want to see one of them takes it to the next level. I hope they don't give the title to one of the ECW guys because i think that would upset most of the fans
     
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  14. realdealasshole

    realdealasshole Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Here's the thing dude, AJ is definitely no wannabe. Even people who absolutely hate TNA and will never give them credit for anything will say they think AJ is indeed phenomenal and they'd love to have him in WWE. You bash AJ but then talk about how you like Barrett. Yeah, Barrett's solid, but if you think he's got more skill than AJ you're just insane.

    As for the nexus angle being great. Correction, it WAS great. But just like every wrestling promotion ever, WWE disappointed and had Nexus lose at the pay-per-view killing any bit of greatness that was left in that storyline.
     
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  15. Zeven_Zion

    Zeven_Zion King Of The Ring

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    I can read you PONE WWE suckers all day long.

    I don't know if half of you are idiots or maybe even more than that, but use your fucking brain to realize what's going on.

    The reason why EV2.0 is here is to put over Fortune! That's it! There will be some swerves, people will join here, people will join there, and it will all culminate at some PPV where the young guys beat the old has-beens. A symbollic "passing of the torch". I can ASSURE you that once this match is done these EV2 jackasses will either vanish again on work backstage in different ways. THAT leaves TNA with the new guys and the new guys only. Some of them will go heel, some of them will go face because they were all heels so far ( or faces if TNA does the right thing and turns Fortune faces ). THAT by itself shakes things up again. It allows for even MORE storylines. Once the ECW guys are gone, all we're left with of the old farts is Double J, Nash, Sting. Nash is a goner, I don't think he'll last 'till the end of the year, same for Double J. I don't mind Sting, he's not the best in the ring but hey, if you can live with 'Taker who can barely move, you can live with Sting.

    THAT leaves you with the young guys only, plus RVD, Anderson, Hardy and Angle if he doesn't retire. RVD is great, no World Champ great, but still great. Anderson is the best talker in TNA, Hardy...please fire him.

    Unlike WWE, TNA knows what the fuck it's doing. And unlike WWE, when they fuck up, they man up, admit their mistakes, fix them and make something good out of it. It's a slow process, but at least they listen to the fans.

    You can go ahead and hope that this happens in WWE and that happens in WWE. Your ideas are cool, no wait, they're AWESOME, and they'll look awesome on TV, but get them out of your system because WWE will feed you the same crap it's been feeding you for the last 7 years. Cena, Cena, Cena, Cena, Cena, Cena and some Cena to top it all.

    The Miz is absolutely horrendous. I don't GET what people like about him. I suppose with all the shitty guys in WWE has, an average Joe like Miz seems like a god to you. The guy is straight out BORING. Another Jericho clone. Give him blond hair and you've got a not even half-as-talented, not-even-half as skilled, twice as ugly Chris Jericho.

    See, it's funny. It's as if WWE dictates what you have to think. They push the Miz - you like the Miz. Well, you know who has more talent than him? Ziggler, Bourne, R-Truth. And no no, not the shitty ass WWE versions of Ziggler, Bourne and Truth. Evan Bourne is Matt fucking Sydal. If you think he's amazing in the WWE you'll shit your pants if you watch his matches with AJ for example or his stuff in Japan. Ziggler is the most underrated guy right now. He's got a perfect look, awesome in-ring stuff, he's a classic, classic heel. I'm actually glad they gave him the IC title. I also feel sorry for him because ONCE UPON A TIME an IC belt meant the world to up and comers because that was a sign of World Championships to come. Now it's a glass ceiling. The last guy who held that belt and became something was Orton. Some fucking six years ago. Kofi Held it - where is he now. Morrisson held it - where is he now. Poor Ziggy.

    And R-Truth? You think THAT R-Truth is anything close to Ron "The Truth" Killings? Please..

    WWE missuses their guys for the soul purpose of keeping guys like Cena seem good. I can name 20 current WWE guys, most of them jobbers, who can out-wrestle and out-promo Cena any day of the week. So you can go ahead and watch that shit of a company that won't give you what you want, but feed you what THEY want, I'll watch me some TNA.
     
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  16. twentytwo

    twentytwo Occasional Pre-Show

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    Makes no sense. Impossible to get a bunch of young, strong, wrestlers in their primes like Beer Money and AJ Styles "over" by defeating a bunch of shit wrestlers who haven't been relevant or threatening in over ten years.

    TNApologists love to defend the Hogan's and Flair's, and Nash's and ECW's guys as "only here to get the young guys over!" and it's a bunch of bullshit.

    Jay Lethal did not get any more "over" than he already was (or wasn't) by beating a 60 year old Ric Flair. Sorry, he didn't. Do you seriously think AJ Styles is getting "over" by feuding with Tommy Fucking Dreamer?

    Stop with this shit. It's not true, it's never been true and it will never be true. The ECW guys are in TNA because Dixie Carter is desperate mark. That's it. They are a waste of time and energy, and they're not going to help put anyone over even a little bit.
     
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  17. jonboi24

    jonboi24 Dark Match Winner

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    To whom ever bad mouth AJ Styles you best check yourself, dude is phenomenal in the ring. Yeah he may not have the best mic skills but he's still amazing to watch. He's a great talent who seems to have begun to really get into his character as of late.

    As far as TNA goes they are wasting their time, talent and money on this EV2.0 shit. Yes I kinda gave them props for Hardcore Justice, was kinda nice seeing them get a proper farewell but seriously wasted an entire PPV when a tv special would have been better. Seriously I kinda found it a waste of money, except for the two last matches they were good. TNA has all this great talent that aren't getting enough or any time. Seriously they signed how many ECW old-timers? Their roster is getting crowded and great talent are being wasted. Though the same can be said for WWE, at least they can showcase leaser important guys on Superstar. Though WWE has dropped the ball in some cases ex. Jack Swagger as of late, at least they are trying to eject some fresh talent into the mix. Look at the Miz, Sheamus, and Wade, young talent infused into the main event picture. You all can hate on the Miz but he didn't wrestle all his life like most wrestlers. He made his in-ring debut in 2003 and look at how far he comes. He may not be the best in the ring but can't doubt how far he has improved as of late.

    TNA's biggest issue is that they care to much about WWE. They try to go toe to toe with them and they failed. They think getting all this big names and nostalgic wrestlers will bring in the cash and the ratings, but look at them now. The sad thing is doing these things can only work short term, how long before guys like Nash, Sting, Hogan, Angle, Hardy(yeah he ain't as old as the other guys but its not to think he'll screw himself over again), EV2.0 and etc. get too old, drugged up, f*cks up, or leaves. Building stars take to long and even if they do make a big star where will they be financially? Around 5-7 years ago TNA and WWE were in opposite direction they are now. WWE relied too heavily on established and proven draws, where as TNA where building up new stars like a Styles, Daniels and Joe. After all these years who would have thought that it would be WWE taking the youthful direction and TNA relying too heavily on nostalgic figures, WWE rejects and old-should-have-retired wrestlers. I seriously feel sorry for Ric Flair because when it comes down to it wrestling is the only thing he has left in his life.
     
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  18. WWE Manster03

    WWE Manster03 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    I'm going to agree yet also disagree with both sides of this arguement...
    I watch WWE primarily, but I also watch Impact every single Thursday so I feel I'm more than qualified to give my $.02 on the matter..
    Things TNA does well:
    -They make all of their talent relevant on a semi-equal scale. What I mean is that Jay Lethal can at any moment be put against Kurt Angle and we don't think why the hell would they do that. I couldn't say the same for WWE if they put Santino against lets say John Cena. Makes no sense.
    -they have a believable tag division. I said it on facebook in a discussion with John Canton of thejohnreport.net that the MCMG/Beer Money 2/3 falls match was one of the 5 best tag matches that I have ever seen and I stand by that.

    Things that WWE does well:
    -If they start something they follow it through. Regardless of the quality of the angle they will keep it moving forward until a conclusion. It has been almost 5 months and I still don't know WHO kidnapped Samoa Joe and WHY they did it. And we have been waiting for almost a month and a half to find out who "they" are.
    -They know who they are. What I mean by that is they don't try and pretend to be something that they aren't. They went PG and got an identity. They are working on building an image of a family friendly company and for the most part it is working for them, especially where finances are concerned. TNA constantly changes what they are focusing on: X Division/Knockouts/Youth Movement/EV2/Hogan and friends/etc...

    Things WWE does poorly:
    -Book matches to a finish..They don't like to make people lose clean. They haven't since the Attitude Era. They are afraid it will devalue their guys. Jericho/Christian/Edge/HHH can lose because they are popular enough that it doesn't hurt them and people generally love them. HBK was in that category as well. Cena/Orton/Undertaker/etc don't lose clean because WWE is afraid that since they aren't as solid in the ring they will lose steam. Trust me, they won't.
    -Raw is their main show and everything else is 2nd rate. You don't see Smackdown/NXT recaps on Raw. Why? Because they aren't their money maker. They could be if you advertised them more. Smackdown is reportedly supposed to get a big push once they move to SyFy in October. More people have SyFy so they will probably market it more than they have in the past. NXT I think will get a push as well once that happens. A Smackdown recap on Raw would be very welcome to me.
    -Secondary titles don't mean shit. The IC title actually gets defended now so that is a plus, but the others (US/Tag Titles) don't get any love. Tag champs can be on 2 shows. Use them because the Hart's can actually go and are over. Put them against the Uso's/Dudebusters/Mercury and Gallows/etc and you have a division that while not the most credible at least will get work. With Daniel Bryan coming back I think he will take the US title from the Miz at Night of Champions and HE is someone that can bring that title some respect. He can put on a good match with a mop and will build credible stars while doing that. It just sucks that right now the 2 main titles get all the attention.

    What TNA does poorly:
    -They have to many generals and not enough soliders. Dixie/Jarrett/Bischoff/Hogan..what do they all have in common? All 4 are considered in charge of TNA. Put Dixie as your company head and take her off the air. Use Bischoff as the lead manager role( the Vinnie Mac of TNA if you will) because he is believable and makes sense in that role. Hogan should be in a managerial role/creative role and OCCASIONALLY used as Bischoffs right hand man. Jarrett should be off tv as well with Dixie. He was NEVER relevant and should be a suit running the company he started while passing everything through Dixie(since it's her money they are using).
    -Creative direction is a mess. As mentioned on a few recaps, why are they rushing the best thing they have going with Kurt Angle's slow climb to the top to the rankings? And also, why give us the option to vote on the rankings, then punish Desmond Wolfe when we vote him near the top of the list because we didn't want to see RVD/Abyss/Sting up there? Tell us that you will take our vote, but like every OTHER show in the history of TV don't use the votes exclusively. Have an option to explain everything so you don't look like you got thrown into the girls locker room with your pants down..
    -Put your head down and worry about yourself. Don't take shots at ROH/WWE or any other promotion for that matter. Work on your own product. Outside of Kaval's NXT rap, I have heard NO mention of TNA in any way shape or form on WWE programming. But I hear WEEKLY Taz/wrestlers/and anyone else that gets a mic it seems take jabs at WWE or Bishcoff shooting on ROH...ROH outsells TNA in house shows/PPVs and if they could get on a network that wasnt UniversalHD they would do VERY well for themselves. Ripping on them is like the pot calling the kettle black, very bush league.

    Basically, the TNA marks and WWE defenders need to stop bashing each others companies. TNA is far from perfect, and neither is WWE. I find myself able to watch more of Raw than I am Impact but not every week. Smackdown is better than both, so that basically rests my case. If you don't like SuperCena/Nexus/PG then don't watch WWE. If you can't watch TNA without bitching about the old guys(which I don't like but tolerate) or the booking done by Russo and company then don't watch TNA. Why watch what you don't like? Your stupid if you do that. And if you don't watch a promotion, but you read the spoilers then that DOES NOT qualify you to comment on a particular angle/championship picture. I read the Raw spoilers this week and they were ok but the show was better than I thought it would be. TNA is usually MUCH better than their spoilers read every week(with some exceptions of course....I'm talking to you Tommy Dreamer promo begging Dixie for HardCore justice)
     
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  19. waylonmercy

    waylonmercy In Waylon Mercy's Hands

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    Why does TNA have to hire established stars? They are paying 6 figures (I am only guessing) for these veterans and tehy are NOT drawing a lick! The 1.0 rating they hover around is fans of WRESTLING! My father watches TNA every week, he's not there to watch Sting or Nash or Hogan or ECW or AJ Styles, he's watching it because he's a wrestling fan! He's been a wrestling fan longer than 99% of the people here have been alive. And I bet the great majority of viewers are wrestling fans, not fans of TNA or certain wrestlers but fan of wrestling.

    TNA is foolishly spending money to sign all this talent who 1) isn't on tv enough and 2) is making way too much money for what they have to offer.

    Let's face it TNA is their own monopoly! WWE isn't going to touch 95% of that roster if they were not with TNA and if people like Bischoff and Hogan want to focus on a Midget Wrestling Federation or whatever they are doing then let them. Like I said before when TNA first was on PPV I watched it because I also am a fan of the show. They were establishing their own talent and to be honest back then I was more interested in the talent than I am now.

    I feel like I am watching WCW when I watch TNA wrestling and that isn't a good aura whatsoever. World Championship Wrestling has a mostly tarnished reputation. When they were part of NWA it was neat because you'd get legends of NWA get involved here and there and it felt like a strong NWA indy promotion with some established talent.

    If you're a sports fan I compare what TNA HAS TO DO to what the teams who are rebuilding do. They get rid of the high priced talent and bring in MOSTLY young talent. They could have built up some young talent and signed SOME veterans at TNAS price. If you don't want to sign you have no real alternative. TNA works a limited schedule so lots of people PREFER being there over WWE.

    I am not BASHING TNA by this thread, I am stating that they should be cutting back on older talent and bringing in more fresh talent and use the indys to their advantage. It's the cycle of life. Like HEyman said, he'd fire all the talent over 40 years old and really I'd do much the same. Could you imagine how awful the Knockout Division would be if they only had women who were in the WWE and were in their 40's? TNA IMO had a much better women's division than WWE. Lots to do with the fact that they had talent who could work.

    As for 15 years ago WWE using WCW talent, Vader was an established main eventer that was billed that way. Mero/HHH/Nash/Hall/Foley even UT all performed in WCW but by the time they went to WWE with the exception of Mero and Foley I never knew that HHH/Nash/Hall/UT even wrestled there and I am sure they didn't pay a lot to get Mero or Foley to sign with WWE. All of them earned the recognition they received in WWE. With TNA its like they are all main eventers and they get pushed to the moon when they get there. I wouldn't be surprised if Funaki were to sign with TNA that they'd push him to the moon too!
     
    #19
  20. Schizophrenic

    Schizophrenic iMPACT! Player From The Start

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    Let me see if I can answer some questions (rhetorical or not) that alot fo people have been asking.
    "Why do TNA need some of the old stars?"
    Nobodies beating nobodies means jack shit. as much as I enjhoy it, that's why ROH is not on cable TV and is on an HD channel you haev to pay extra for. Without the name value of guys lik Sting, Nash, Raven, Hogan and others of the such it's Jay Lethal vs AJ Styles. Now as great as those two are in the ring if I was just a WWE fan and turned on TNA and saw two guys I didn't know, I'm not sure I would watch it. Thus bring in name guys. Right now TNA are using the older guys (with the exception of EV2) wisely. They are taking maybe 5 minutes weekley unless it's a match and I still enjoy watching Sting vs Jarrett as the two can still move around the ring, Hogan should never wrestle again.

    "The BS line of TNA's roster is full of 50 year olds."
    Last time I checked Hogan, Flair and Sting were the only ones in their fifties. I read pwinsider once and i had an article about just this. The average age of the TNA performer was 28-33. Yeah, way below 50. Anti-TNA guys need to find new materiel when it's all usually bs and can be disproven which causes you to insult people personally and get suspended from this fantastic site.

    "WWE Rejects"
    Oh how I love hearing this stupid thing. Does anyone watching WWE (and I know it's catered to kids so I don't give the average (ie, child) viewer much credit for knowing this) remember that until 5 years ago WWE's main guys were HHH, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Undertaker, Benoit, Guerrero and a few key others who worked someplace else than WWE. Most worked for WCW and didn't get the greatest oppurtunity. Now when they get to WWE people think it's the greatest thing ever that these guys are getting the chance. No one labeled them WCW Rejects. However when TNA does the same with guys like Pope, Anderson and those of the like, they are attacked for it and these great wrestlers who WWE never gave a chance to are labeled "WWE Rejets". The double standards seem to run abundant on this forum at times.
     
    #20
  21. Rayne

    Rayne Sally Section

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    Why is it that if someone doesn't like TNA, and can see that what they're doing isn't working, must love the WWE? Isn't it possible that both major organizations aren't that exciting right now? If I think AJ Styles can't main event a major promotion, does that by default mean I must be secretly in love with John Cena?

    Hard facts: Ratings are flat over last year, if we ignore the Monday Night abortion. This is after TNA dumped loads of money into hiring new (old) talent, paid for the related advertising campaign, and upgraded to an HD set.

    More hard facts: TNA isn't creating new wrestling fans. They lack the mainstream buzz for that (not for lack of trying, but there's nothing pro wrestling offers to the non-fan these days, in any of the major promotions.) They're reliant upon either getting disillusioned WWE fans to tune in, or reactivating people who aren't currently watching wrestling. The raw numbers say they are failing (2010 TNA Impact! Ratings, wrapped in spoiler tags to conserve space):

    2010 TNA Impact! Ratings
    (source: www.tnastars.com, compiled from news reports)

    1/4(M)- 1.5
    1/14- 1.26
    1/21- 1.26
    1/28- 1.4
    2/4- 1.2
    2/11- 1.2
    2/18- 1.23
    2/25- 1.14
    3/4- 1.14
    3/8(M)- 0.99
    3/15(M)- 0.84
    3/22(M)- 0.86
    3/29(M)- 0.62
    4/5(M)- 0.87
    4/12(M)- 0.80
    4/19(M)- 0.95
    4/26(M)- 0.50
    5/3(M)- 0.78
    5/13- 0.93
    5/20- 0.96
    5/27- 0.96
    6/3- 0.87
    6/10- 0.99
    6/17- 0.99
    6/24- 0.99
    7/1- 0.99
    7/8- 1.15
    7/15- 1.09
    7/22- 1.06
    7/29- 1.22
    8/5- 1.21
    8/12- 1.15
    8/19- 0.97

    People go on about how great AJ is, how people need to have faith in this EV2.0 / Fortune storyline; but the cold, hard fact of the matter is that for all the stunts TNA has been pulling, a 1.2 is considered a success this year, whereas last year it was considered average. They are simply not offering the fan base at large anything they want to see. If TNA wants to be successful, they have to give people that aren't currently fans some reason to tune in. AJ isn't a mainstream draw. He's a crazy talented wrestler, but he doesn't put asses in seats. Beyond Kurt Angle, TNA lacks the Big Money draw.

    Of course, pointing all of this out means I'm obviously a WWE mark. Why discuss why TNA isn't working at what it's doing now, when you can just say that anyone who disagrees with you must kiss Vince's ass?

    It's not a TNA vs. WWE issue. You don't have to choose one promotion or the other; this isn't East Side/West Side. With the promotions hosting their shows on separate nights, choosing isn't an issue unless your PPV budget is only so tight as to allow you to send your money to ONE company, and one alone. The issue is that TNA isn't offering compelling programming to bring in a larger audience. Good God, I wanted TNA to be legitimate competition for the WWE. Competition is good; it forces both companies to improve their product, to the benefit of the consumer. It's why the Western world has such a hard-on for breaking up monopolies, except for certain specific industries. (If anyone wants to bring up an example of a permissible monopoly, like your cable or electric companies, feel free, but I am more than prepared to drop a dissertation about the necessity of socialist aspects in any open capitalist system. Not an exciting topic, but there's always one contrarian smartass lurking around.) But what they're offering has no passion to it. There's nothing that grabs the viewer and makes him watch. There shouldn't be people on message boards explaining why we should watch the Fortune/EV2.0 angle; that should be evident to the viewer without explanation, if the angle is any good to begin with.

    But by all means- keep pretending that anyone who doesn't like TNA must be a hardcore WWE fan out to see TNA fail. It has to be less stressful then wondering why Tommy Dreamer is main eventing shows for a national promotion, booked as a face in an invasion angle.
     
    #21
  22. WWE Manster03

    WWE Manster03 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Basically, what Rayne just said is 100% right. This is not and should not be about WWE vs TNA. It should be about getting the wrestling fans across the country happy with the product again. If you don't like WWE, hey guess what there is a promotion on SpikeTV that has alot of great Tag Team wrestling and some really good technical wrestlers. If you don't like that, then if you have an HDTV, or access to youtube for that matter, you can watch a promotion called Ring of Honor. They are booking wrestling shows like they were booked in the territory days. If you are into more exotic styles, try AAA or Dragon Gate or CZW...Why does 1 have to always be labeled better? Coke and Pepsi are damn near the same. People swear by one and think the other sucks ass(btw I'm a coke fan). In our culture right now, wrestling is on the decline. UFC/MMA came in and took the casual fan that tuned in for violence away, because that violence is real. Why divide the fan base that wrestling has left when we can just agree that we all like wrestling, but may disagree as to what our favorite promotion is?
     
    #22
  23. oldschool123

    oldschool123 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Maybe nobody mentions it because it isn't really an accomplishment. Nobody really cares about Superstars and NXT because one is filled with the talent who isn't good enough to get TV time on one of the main shows and the other is filled with rookies who nobody has ever heard of.

    If Impact couldn't beat Superstars and NXT in the ratings TNA would be in huge trouble.
     
    #23
  24. oldschool123

    oldschool123 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    I'll ask this again even though I was told it was somehow spamming last time.

    Is Fortune really going to get credibility by beating a bunch of old washedup guys who never were any good to start with?
     
    #24
  25. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

    Joined:
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    :banghead:Never any good to start with?:banghead: - :wtf: are you talking about? The One Night Stand PPVs, The Rise And Fall Of ECW DVD, WWe starting up a third brand purely on the success of the PPVs, the amount of ECW guys signed by the big two when ECW was in business - any of this mean anything to you?
     
    #25
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