TNA is Killing the Ladder Match

[Harthan]

This really occurred to me watching the Edge vs Hardy ladder match last night. As I watched it, it really hit me how damn good of a match this was. I mean, it was a spotfest- what more do you want from a ladder match - but it was really good - and I couldn't pick out exactly what was different from the standard spot fest fare. And then I realized, it's the thing that characterizes the truly great ladder matches - even though it's a spot fest, the guys have feuded so intensely, have worked so hard, to make you give a damn about the ladder match. And, by extension, this led me to realize that while the WWE is doing its best to make it a respectable match, TNA is destroying it.

I mean, look at TNA's list of ladder matches recently. I'll count backward from the latest until the last one I think was actually any good.

You had Brutus Magnus vs Cody Deaner, on Impact. It's for a case, but I honestly don't think anyone cares anymore. There were some alright spots in here, but all around, it was terrible. Why? Because barely anyone cares about Magnus or his case, and no one cares about Deaner. No one could have given two shits who won or lost this match if it was a standard match, and TNA mistakenly believed that putting a ladder in there would improve things. It didn't.

Go back a little bit, and you have Taylor Wilde vs SoJo Bolt for a Knockouts title shot. Once again, terrible match, because NO ONE cared. Not anyone. All well and good, they want a title shot. If this was a regular match, it probably would have been alright. The ladder actually hurt it, because whatever few spots they pulled, no one could have cared. Not to mention this occurred about four weeks before the next, and about two months after the last.

Which brings me to my next point about ladder matches in TNA, they're completely abused. Honestly, they're dragged out for anyone and anything. TNA seems to be under the impression that ladder = better, but the fact is, like any match, it's heat and promotion that make a match. When you add a ladder into a heated match, with talent who can utilize it, then things improve. When you put a ladder into the middle of nowhere, with nobodies, it's going to make a match worse.

The list continues in the same trend, you don't need the rest. A tag team #1 contenders match on Impact, a totally random match on Impact...

This is the next point that needs to be made - there are way, way too many ladder matches on TV. Compare this to WWE - the last ladder match on free TV was in 2007 for the 15th anniversary - and it wasn't a big one. It was a solid little ladder match, but nothing spectacular - Jeff Hardy vs Carlito for the IC title. Still, it was solid, and it gave away just the right amount on TV. TNA, meanwhile, puts on a shit ton of ladder matches on Impact, and they're terrible - but so many of them make us completely uncaring when a good one comes around. I guarantee you Slammiversary would be way more anticipated if the KOTM was one of two or three ladder matches per year, instead of 1 of 6 or 7.

The last ladder match that was any good was Sonjay Dutt vs Jay Lethal, and that's because there was a feud behind it. It wasn't a great feud, but it was there, and the talent had the skill to take advantage of the match. But it wasn't really good. I mean, it was solid, but it was on the level of Hardy vs Carlito - a little lower, even. And this was a PPV, and probably the best singles ladder match TNA had put on in a long time (this does not count KOTMs).

The fact is, TNA can't put on a good ladder match to save their life. If they use it in a high profile feud, they give it away on Impact (see: Angle vs Styles). If it's on PPV, it's TV calibur (see: Lethal vs Dutt). They can't book a high profile feud ending, or feud peaking, ladder match to save their life, so instead they spam the hell out free TV with ladder matches, making it out like they're just as good, but they're not. Most of the shit that makes its way to TV, barely anyone cares about. This, however, brings down the quality of PPV ladder matches, and like I said before, is not only ruining TNA's own ladder matches, as in KOTM, but is dragging down ladder matches everywhere by making them seem like just another random gimmick, instead of the feud enders/peakers they are.

TNA's relentless combination of shitty TV ladder matches and inability to put high profile ladder matches on PPV is slowly killing the credibility of this match. If it weren't for WWE's recent ladder matches being absolutely stellar (see: Hardy vs Edge, Jericho vs HBK, MITB 2009), this match would have already been reduced to as commonplace and unexciting as the steel cage match now is.

What do you think? Agree that TNA is killing the match? Disagree - maybe you love the relentless ladder matches? Let me know what you think.

 

[CripplerFrogSplash]

TNA just uses it too much, WWE uses it on a whim (say once or rarely twice a year) which explains the point.

I expected more from the Ladder Match last night, but it was the first singles ladder match WWE held in 8 months. In the 3 month period between November 11th & December 20th 2008 TNA held 3 ladder matches. That's a bit too much for even a casual OMG Spotfest fan to cope with, if they aren't up to standards.

If TNA just continues to do ladder matches out of the blue without much background for them, they probably will end up killing it. But as long as WWE can put out respectable Ladder Matches every now & again the match will continue to satisfy

 

[Paradox100]

Your both right, i saw those two ladder matches. Ladder matches are supposed to be something special. Which makes the fans glue their eyes on their TV's. The ladder match is supposed to be a once a year thing i my book. I don't like it when they put them on TV with no background behind it. I mean, seriously, Taylor Wilde? The only girl I can think of who can put on a good ladder match, was Lita. WWE does ladder matches greatly, but TNA uses them as filler, and thinks it will draw.

 

[Greenlight13]

TNA just uses it too much, WWE uses it on a whim (say once or rarely twice a year) which explains the point.

I expected more from the Ladder Match last night, but it was the first singles ladder match WWE held in 8 months. In the 3 month period between November 11th & December 20th 2008 TNA held 3 ladder matches. That's a bit too much for even a casual OMG Spotfest fan to cope with, if they aren't up to standards.

If TNA just continues to do ladder matches out of the blue without much background for them, they probably will end up killing it. But as long as WWE can put out respectable Ladder Matches every now & again the match will continue to satisfy

You expected MORE???? Jef's lucky to have use of his arm or penis and Edge nearly got his ribs cut open.... but anyway...

But anyway, yes TNA are killing the ladder match. In fact I don't really remember a good ladder match in TNA history. I guess their equivilent of it is the Ultimate X so they don't really bother with ladder matches. The one that took the piss was Booker T vs Jethro Holliday.... or Brutus vs Cody Deaner yeah. Just awful and pointless.

The entire reason you have a high stakes match is because you've built the stakes, like a normal match couldn't possibly settle their hatred. When you just toss people into one it becomes meaningless and as much as I rack my brain I can't think when TNA did that... maybe Jay Lethal and Sonjay but that ladder match was pretty bad I think.

 

[wewanttables]

You are WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. TNA uses ladder matches for character developement. The WWE uses ladder matches to change championships. This makes sense. TNA does more gimic matches. When was the last gimic divas match that did not involve Santino/Santina. TNA had three stretcher matches with Kong to "rebuild" her dominance. Brutus Mangnus toyed with Deaner to help Brutus start to draw heat. Stop complaining and actually watch the match.

 

[andymcg]

Hmmm i seem to remeber that Cristian Cage and Kaz had an outstanding ladder match once, i cant remever what PPV exactly but it was definetly up to "WWE standards", so to speak.

 

[pod_daddy]

I think WWE puts a lot into their ladder matches because that's a WWE original. They have a history of jaw-dropping ladder matches to live up to.

TNA, on the other hand, has history with The Monster's Ball, Six Sides of Steel, and Ultimate X. They try to put everything they have into THOSE matches, because they have a history of memorable matches to live up to.

For them, I would imagine the ladder match is no different than, say, a cage match; use it to add punch to a match, give the crowd more bang for their buck, so to speak.

It wouldn't surprise me if they were overusing and underutilizing the ladder match to dilute interest in that type of match, and thereby, if successful, sucking the momentum out of those matches the WWE puts on...

 

[Harthan]

You are WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.

Alright.

TNA uses ladder matches for character developement.

Really? Sure was a hell of a lot of character development in Magnus vs Deaner. Magnus's gimmick is exactly the same as it was before, and he doesn't look any better because he beat a complete ass. Deaner hasn't even been on TV since.

Or perhaps Wilde vs Bolt? Yeah, loads of development there. Taylor Wilde turned from a plucky face who gives it that little extra to...a plucky face who gave it a little bit extra, with a ladder?

The WWE uses ladder matches to change championships.

Not really. WWE uses them to cap off or peak feuds. Hell, arguably two of the best ladder matches of all time, Shawn vs Razor at WM 10 and the rematch at SummerSlam '95, featured first Razor, then Shawn retain their titles. Titles change in a good number of them, sure, but it's about capping feuds rather than changing titles.

This makes sense.

Sure does.

TNA does more gimic matches.

So they get a free pass for abusing gimmick matches, because they use a lot of gimmick matches? What kind of self-fulfilling logic is this?

When was the last gimic divas match that did not involve Santino/Santina.

Hmm, fine question. Do you consider battle royals gimmick matches? Let's just assume not. There were a whole lot of bra and panties matches for a while, that was good times. Anyway, Jazz and Trish had a No DQ match once. It was alright. That's all I can think of, it's from like 2002-2003, look it up.

TNA had three stretcher matches with Kong to "rebuild" her dominance.

Yes, and they were all terrible. She could have done the same thing in a regular match, or a post match beatdown. Instead we had to sit through like 12 Awesome Bombs a night.

Brutus Mangnus toyed with Deaner to help Brutus start to draw heat.

Seems to me he could have done the same thing in a regular match, rather than ruining the prestige of a damn good gimmick match.

Stop complaining

I choose no.

and actually watch the match.

I did, and now I'm complaining about it. Cause and effect.

Hmmm i seem to remeber that Cristian Cage and Kaz had an outstanding ladder match once, i cant remever what PPV exactly but it was definetly up to "WWE standards", so to speak.

This is very true, and it was good. It wasn't the best feud, but it was the cap off to a tournament that was, if you're into TNA, exciting. And so, I prove my point again - if you use a ladder match to cap off a big angle or feud, and the talent is good at ladder matches (which Christian obviously is, and Kaz is solid at), it'll be good. When you waste them on no names in random matches with no buildup, they become terrible.

 

[gd]

I completely agree. TNA has some really good ladder matches, but they also have a bunch of shit matches in between. For instance, there was no reason that Doug Williams vs. Cody Deaner needed to be a ladder match. There are a ton of other gimmicks matches availibe, choose one of those.

I guess TNA thinks that by making whatever match a ladder match it will automatically make it good. That isn't true. In addition to having spots, there also has to be some build up behind a ladder match, not just a random challenge on the weekly TV show.

 

[Thriller Ant]

I think in general TNA kills any gimmick match. On Impact last week, they had Nash vs. Joe in a Lethal Lockdown match. I understand that Joe is on a mission to destroy the MEM, but a match like that should be used to cap a feud. The Edge/Hardy match was used to end their feud and move on. It had story behind it and a purpose. It wasn't just thrown together for the sake of having a ladder match. Gimmick matches are fine, and I enjoy them a lot, but the more of something you have, the more you get bored of it and want something better. And at the rate they are going, I really don't think TNA has that "something better."

 

[Tenta]

Well yeah, I agree, but then again, isn't that what TNA is doing to most of the gimmick matches? Hell, even the ones that they invent, they're burning to the ground.

Admittedly, though, it isn't only TNA ruining specialty matches. WWE seems to have destroyed the cage match, at this point, so I really can't blame TNA, as much as it was a contributed effort. But the ladder match especially is the case in which they would have decided to destroy. The train of thought, I suppose, is that we have a whole light of lightweight, so therefore we have to use the ladder every match. Guys like AJ Styles and Chris Daniels know how to have a good match without a ladder, but for whatever reason, TNA doesn't give it's wrestlers enough credit to say that they can have an entertaining, regular, one-on-one match. From my perspective, I don't understand it, but that's just the TNA train of thought. It isn't just the ladder match, but it's really all specialty matches in general.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

TNA usually screws the pooch when it comes to gimmick matches. The reason Williams/Deaner and Wilde/Bolt flopped because nobody cared. The WWE uses their ladder matches when it's the end of a long feud like Michaels/Jericho and Hardy/Edge. The one thing about ladder matches is that they mainly have to have a title on the line. You can have a great midcard feud without a title so a ladder match is pretty much not an option.

I suppose TNA doesn't want to perform their gimmick matches like the WWE, but some are just ridiculous. In a TNA Stretcher Match, all you have to do is put your opponent on a stretcher which is in the ring and you win. I like WWE's much better because there's more intrigue to see whether the person on the stretcher can get off before it crosses the yellow line.

I hate their Last Man Standing match the most because you have to pin your opponent first and then if he doesn't answer the ten count, you win. I never saw the point of pinning your opponent and I never will, but it's TNA after all.

 

[gd]

I think that the problem is that TNA feels the need to change a lot of matches to make them there own when they are fine as they are. Instead of just having a match similar to WWE's MITB, TNA gives us the cluster fuck known as Feast or Fired.

They also have to stop having so many gimmick matches for no reason at all. A few of the recent main events on Impact have been Joe vs. Nash in the 6 sides of steel for no reason, Booker T vs. Jethro Holliday in an I Quit Match, Jarrett vs. Steiner in a "Cacuts Jack Funhouse Match", and Foley vs. MCMG in a First Blood match, all within the last 2 months, not even counting other gimmick matches that weren't the main event.

The only gimmick matches WWE has had in their main event during that same time period were Hardy v. Hardy Stretcher match and Orton vs. HHH in a no DQ match. WWE usually saves their gimmick matches for PPV while TNA just has random gimmick matches whenever they feel like it.

 

[Paradox]

The problem is TNA isn't just ruining the ladder match it's every gimmick match. The ladder match is just one that they ruin along the way. To be honest, I just don't think that TNA knows how to put on a gimmick match. When WWE puts on a gimmick match, like the ladder match with Hardy and Edge, not only is it a spot fest, but they tell a story. Something that TNA doesn't. Remember how Edge kept telling Hardy that as high as he would climb he would pull him back down? Through out the match you saw that. Then when Edge went to grab the title Hardy pulled him down trapping him only to grab the title right in front of him. It's those type of things that make WWE's gimmick matches great, and hold TNA back. Because TNA will randomly through people into those matches. No story just going at it.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Ok normally I am one to defend TNA, but you guys are right on here. I think they are doing anything they can to try to get some attention. Maybe they think puttin free gimmick matches on tv will help. I read somewhere that they are more focused on Impact than their PPVs, so I may be right. Either way they need to work on it a bit. Gimmick matches are not to be thrown around like they are, just to cap off a rivalry. Notice I didn't really mention the ladder match specifically because they aren't killing it anymore than the other gimmick matches, IMO.

 

[Dr. Stinger A. Zoidberg]

Yea I agree, TNA will have random ladder matches with random shit people who have nothing to do with each other. For example, they'll have Rhino vs Hector Guerrero in a ladder match with a sunbrero hanging from the ring. It just makes no sense at all and more importantly, all of their ladder matches are boring

 

[Pimpin]

I'm gonna agree & say that they are oversaturating the ladder match, but isn't that what TNA does for most of the gimmick matches anyways.

Point is is that TNA would do pointless shit like probably putting Jesse Neal & some D List celebrity in a ladder match with Neal's sailor hat hanging on top. What they really need to do is to stop throwing the gimmick matches out there on free tv that doesn't truly serve a point or just save the gimmick matches for PPV's & payoffs to the feud & just leave it at that instead of adding some other gimmick to make the match with more gimmicks.

 

[Melina]

I agree. Taylor Wilde vs. Sojo Bolt and Deaner vs. Magnus. Come on. However I am a fan of the King of the Mountain, which is a reverse ladder match. And they do that 1-2 times a year and normally all at the same pay per view.

 

[tj177mmi]

I agree. Taylor Wilde vs. Sojo Bolt and Deaner vs. Magnus. Come on. However I am a fan of the King of the Mountain, which is a reverse ladder match. And they do that 1-2 times a year and normally all at the same pay per view.

Which is a great idea that works, much like MITB for WWE. You feature it once a year, don't see it again for 52 weeks, and when it happens, fans are drawn to it.

The problem with TNA and gimmick matches is they are too frequent. And up until a few months ago, it seemed like every PPV Match had a gimmick or stipulation. TNA is over saturating the "market" with these types of matches, so they aren't as exciting when they do happen in a match that has a ton of heat.