Third Round - Toronto Region: Last Man Standing - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker

[klunderbunker]

This is a Third Round match in the Toronto Region.

Rules: This is a Last Man Standing match. You win by beating your opponent until they cannot answer a count of ten. Anything goes as there are no disqualifications.


Location: SkyDome, Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Hulk Hogan

Vs.

The Undertaker

​

Voting is open for 4 days.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Did I miss the voting for the stipulation thing?


NON-KAYFABE

Drawing Power

This is unquestionably Hogan's category. He's arguably the best draw of all time, inarguably a top 3 draw of all time. The Undertaker is a solid draw, but he's also a gimmick performer, and he's never carried the company on his back like Hogan did.

Work Rate

This category goes to the Dead Man, even though Hogan is vastly underrated in this area. Still, the Undertaker worked like no big man before or after him, incorporating all different styles into his matches.

Historical Significance

Hulk Hogan is arguably the greatest professional wrestler of all time. The Undetaker is arguably the greatest gimmick wrestler of all time. No offense to the Undertaker, but this belongs to Hogan, who has inspired far more wrestlers and helped shape how they talk and act.

Charisma

Unquestionably Hogan's category. The Undertaker isn't a sluch, he has natural charisma, no doubt. But Hogan is arguably the most charismatic man in wrestling history, and got over largely based on his charisma. When Hogan is in the ring, every eye is on him, and he holds the crowd in the palm of his hand like only a couple of other men in wrestling history. Also, it's worth noting that both men have two of the most memorable entrances of all time.

Promo

An interesting category, actually. Hogan has shown a very good versatility to his promo's, cutting great 80's style face promos and excellent heel promos as the leader of the nWo. Hogan has been cheered louder as a face and booed louder as a heel then the Undertaker has. Undertaker is interesting because he's essentially a heel that gets cheered. His character has a dark/evil essence to it, but he's still over. His promos are very much the same, but they still carry a lot of weight to me, although I understand they have grown boring to some, I still like them. I'll call it a draw.

Professional Success

Hulk Hogan is a 12 time world champion, Undertaker is a 7 time champion (3 WWF/E, 4 World Heavyweight). Undertaker has held all of his world titles for a combined (get ready for this...I'm going to separate it out, because it's probably not something your aware of, but it's very important to the argument):

Undertaker's TOTAL amount of days holding a world title: 445 days

Hulk Hogan's FIRST REIGN AS WWF/E CHAMPION: 1,474 days

Hulk Hogan's FIRST REIGN AS WCW CHAMPION: 469 days

That's right, Hulk Hogan's first title reign was 4 times as long as the total time Undertaker has EVER held a World Title, and Hogan has two title reigns in his career that are longer then the entirety of Undertaker's reigns as world champion. Hulk Hogan's total time holding a world title in the WWE is 2,185 days. His total time in WCW is 1,177 days. That puts him as the #2 total time as champion in WWF/E (behind Bruno Sammartino) and #1 total time as champion in WCW (ahead of Ric Flair).

I think that paints a pretty clear picture of who is the more professionally successful and who was seen as capable of carrying the company. Undertaker is a gimmick guy. A GREAT gimmick guy, but a gimmick guy.

KAYFABE

In a kayfabe match up, Hulk Hogan wins as well. In his prime, Hulk Hogan always found a way to win. He lost to Ultimate Warrior famously, and he lost to the Undertaker himself due to outside interference from Ric Flair and Paul Bearer, not something you can count on in this match up. Undertaker's prime gimmick revolved around him stunningly sitting up from every attack, but he lost more then you think he did. His high risk style is devastating, and his finisher is devastating (I'm counting the Tombstone as is finisher), but Hogan has kicked out of it before, and he would again, following with a Hulk Up, Big Boot, and Leg Drop. Hogan would have a strength edge and a heart edge (remember, kayfabe), while Undertaker would have an agility edge. Both guys were very resilient (in different ways), but Undertaker could eventually be put down...Hogan usually could not.

Regarding the stipulation, Hogan is never, ever kept down (kayfabe). Even when he gets pinned for three seconds, he's up on his feet soon after, such as against the Rock, or even against the Ultimate Warrior. Undertaker has a history of eventually being put down. He's very resilient early on, but, eventually, he gets put down. That's what Hogan would do here.

Do the right thing. Vote Hogan.

 

[Remix]

I'm voting for The Undertaker. I'm doing this because I prefer him to Hulk Hogan. I missed the boat on Hulkamania and grew up watching 'Taker. When I've watched old Hogan matches I was not entertained by them and formed a low opinion of Hogan's wrestling abilities. Wheras for a man of his size I think The Undertaker's pretty darn good. Because of this I prefer The Undertaker and am voting for him over Hogan. In kayfabe, there's not logical way to justify this. Hogan rarely got held down for a three count, let alone stay down for 10. But any justification works. It doesn't have to be logical, reasonable, nor rooted in fact.

 

[The Underking]

Yeah I'm sure Undertaker put down Hogan twice while Hogan put down taker once match advantage Taker. All the match were with cheating I believe and Hogan trying to sand bag a choke slam. Last Man Standing no DQ so cheating is the right thing to do so the dirty tactics are something you should use to help your case. The Prime Undertaker didn't use the urn ashes so Hogan can't use it Taker can still Tombstone him on a steel chair that was all it took for a three count.

Taker has never lost a Last Man Standing match having one with a Prime Great Khali and drawing with Batista who had to spear him off the floor into the electrical unit and Taker still got up first after the match. Last Time Taker lost cleanly The Undefeated Vladimir Kozlov not the joke version we have now. Plus Taker put people unconscious with the Hells Gate what’s stopping him from doing that to Hulk sure is not strength cause he put it one some big and strong guys who ended up bleeding out of the mouth unconscious.

Taker also was undefeated for a year other then being counted out in his debut Survivor Series match because he continued to beat the shit out of Dusty Rhodes. So no i don't think Taker loses a lot at least not cleanly with the last two being The Great Khali and Vladimir Kozlov the highlights of their whole careers.

Taker has the match advantage, The Speed Advantage, More Moves Advantage, so do the Right Thing vote for the Zombie that is The Undertaker.

 

[gd]

This is ridiculous. No reason Hogan should lose this one here. First off, he's the #1 pro wrestler ever when all things are considered. That has to account for something, right? And by something, I mean everything. No one he should be losing to someone like the Undertaker.

Sure, it's a cool gimmick, but under all of the mascara and sexual juices of Michelle McCool, what do you really have? A decent big man wrestler. That's about it. Taker's been fun to watch at times, but has never been super successful when it comes to winning. I just don't see what he could do here to keep Hogan down. Hulk was literally unstoppable for like 5 years striaght. What advantage does Taker truly have in this match? Someone tell me.

 

[The Brain]

Regarding the stipulation, Hogan is never, ever kept down (kayfabe). Even when he gets pinned for three seconds, he's up on his feet soon after, such as against the Rock, or even against the Ultimate Warrior. Undertaker has a history of eventually being put down. He's very resilient early on, but, eventually, he gets put down. That's what Hogan would do here.

That's usually true, but not always. There was Survivor Series 91. Hogan lost the title and remained on the ground for several minutes. That's much more time than is required to win a last man standing match. By the way his opponent was The Undertaker. In fact Taker has two title victories over Hogan.

I was wondering what it was going to take to get me to vote against Hogan. This gimmick is it. He got a bad draw. Last man standing favors Taker. It's a tough call and it's really tough to vote against Hogan, but I give you Survivor Series 91 as exhibit A.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

I think that we can all agree that the Undertaker is the last person you would want to face with a Last Man Standing stipulation. This match, more than any other, plays right into his hands for a litany of reasons.

1. Everything is legal - As evidenced by his creation of Hell in a Cell and the multitude of hardcore matches he's won, the Undertaker is very comfortable in this situation. Ask Edge what it's like to face the Undertaker with virtually no rules to restrain him, and he would tell you that it's nearly an impossible battle to win. The Undertaker is extremely dangerous with his hands, but he becomes lethal when you allow him to experiment with chains, chairs, tables, ladders, wire, cro bars, lead pipes, etc. Hogan is one of those who didn't fight often in extreme conditions and, while I concede that a chair is simply to use, he is out of his element.

2. History - Hogan, historically, has not been better than the Undertaker. The only time I can recall him beating him was during Taker's rookie year. Hogan at the height of Hulkamania was, at best, equal to a rookie that hadn't began to peak.

3. Size advantage - The only man who I can recall Hogan beating that had a power advantage over him was an old, out-of-shape Andre the Giant (and a rookie Paul Wight). Hogan struggles against wrestlers he can't overpower, such as Warrior, Lesnar, and The Rock. The two big men he has had a degree of success against were both very slow. The Undertaker is a hybrid, a blend of speed and power, two areas where he surpasses Hogan.

4. Style - Hulk Hogan slammed his opponents a lot. Hogan was a virtual one-trick pony. He picked up his opponent and slammed him. In this match, every time he attempts to lift 300 lb. Undertaker, he is going to expend a lot of energy. The Undertaker is a much more versatile wrestler. He has a great power game, is a good striker, and even does submission. A lot of his game won't require him to over-exert himself like Hogan will. In a match of stamina, I think this is important. Hogan, exhausted from his own offense and the Undertaker's, is more apt to stay down after a Last Ride than a fresher Undertaker will be.

5. Finishers - Hogan's leg drop is hard to execute. It requires a lot of set-up and can never be hit out of the blue. The Undertaker, on the other hand, can reverse almost any of Hogan's offense into a Tombstone or Chokeslam. He can make use of his finishers while incorporating chairs and tables (Last Ride onto steel steps anyone?), while Hogan really can't with the Leg Drop. Taker has also shown to be able to knock out opponents with the triangle choke, a move that has only been broken a handful of times.

6. Sit-up - The Undertaker simply does not stay down. The is nothing that is going to get the Deadman to lay down for a ten count. We have all seen the Undertaker take a beating and a half and still sit up almost immediately. Compared to the Undertaker "The Immortal" Hulk Hogan is very, very mortal.

 

[TwistofRKO]

EASILY the Undertaker. Hogan deserves better than a 3rd round exit, but he doesn't get past the Undertaker, especially not in a Last Man Standing Match.

Undertaker OWNED Hulk Hogan, especially when it weapons were used, so why would Hogan go over him now?

The Leg Drop will NOT keep the Undertaker down for a 10 count, yet Taker has 3 moves that can put Hogan's lights out (Tombstone, Chokeslam, Last Ride). The Undertaker is nearly impervious to pain, and I can't think of anything Hogan could possibly do to knock the Undertaker out. Taker has amazing stamina, period, yet alone for a big man. Even if Hogan wounded him, it takes too much to put the Undertaker out, and Hogan doesn't possess that ability.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

I think that we can all agree that the Undertaker is the last person you would want to face with a Last Man Standing stipulation. This match, more than any other, plays right into his hands for a litany of reasons.

I don't think we all agree on that at all.

1. Everything is legal - As evidenced by his creation of Hell in a Cell and the multitude of hardcore matches he's won, the Undertaker is very comfortable in this situation. Ask Edge what it's like to face the Undertaker with virtually no rules to restrain him, and he would tell you that it's nearly an impossible battle to win. The Undertaker is extremely dangerous with his hands, but he becomes lethal when you allow him to experiment with chains, chairs, tables, ladders, wire, cro bars, lead pipes, etc. Hogan is one of those who didn't fight often in extreme conditions and, while I concede that a chair is simply to use, he is out of his element.

I'll concede that the undertaker has an obvious experience advantage with weapons, but it's not like there will be a litany of weapons available for the Undertaker, just pretty much what's at ringside, and Hogan is proficient in dealing and using all of those weapons.

2. History - Hogan, historically, has not been better than the Undertaker. The only time I can recall him beating him was during Taker's rookie year. Hogan at the height of Hulkamania was, at best, equal to a rookie that hadn't began to peak.

Well, that wasn't really "the height of Hulkamania, and it wasn't "at best" equal, Undertaker needed interference to beat Hogan both times. Besides, that means that Undertaker was, at best, Hogan's equal in 2002, when Hogan was WELL past his prime. So, in three matches, there was interference from other people, and Hogan overcame it once, but there's no outsider to interfere here.

And also, historically, there's a reason Undertaker has so few and short championship reigns: He comes up short in big spots.

3. Size advantage - The only man who I can recall Hogan beating that had a power advantage over him was an old, out-of-shape Andre the Giant (and a rookie Paul Wight). Hogan struggles against wrestlers he can't overpower, such as Warrior, Lesnar, and The Rock. The two big men he has had a degree of success against were both very slow. The Undertaker is a hybrid, a blend of speed and power, two areas where he surpasses Hogan.

There is no planet on which Taker is stronger then Hogan. Hogan is definitely the more powerful man. ANd beating bigger men? He beat Andre and Big Show/Giant (which you mentioned), but he also beat Yokozuna, King Kong Bundy, Sid Vicious, Triple H, Lex Luger, Earthquake, Typhoon, Big Bossman, and Undertaker himself. ALl these guys are powerhouses.

Besides for that, there is no size advantage for Taker. He's the taller man, but Hogan is the heavier man.

4. Style - Hulk Hogan slammed his opponents a lot. Hogan was a virtual one-trick pony. He picked up his opponent and slammed him. In this match, every time he attempts to lift 300 lb. Undertaker, he is going to expend a lot of energy. The Undertaker is a much more versatile wrestler. He has a great power game, is a good striker, and even does submission. A lot of his game won't require him to over-exert himself like Hogan will. In a match of stamina, I think this is important. Hogan, exhausted from his own offense and the Undertaker's, is more apt to stay down after a Last Ride than a fresher Undertaker will be.

That's not really true, as Hogan is more of a punch and kick offense, very little strain, with lots of elbow drops and clotheslines mixed in, along with some dirty tactics. None of that involves that much strain. Sure, he would eventually work a slam in there, or an atomic drop, or a vertical suplex, but it was hardly a repeated part of his matches.

Further, Hogan is RENOWNED for having more left in the tank at the end of matches, even "Hulking Up" after GRUELING matches and having more energy then ever
.

5. Finishers - Hogan's leg drop is hard to execute. It requires a lot of set-up and can never be hit out of the blue. The Undertaker, on the other hand, can reverse almost any of Hogan's offense into a Tombstone or Chokeslam. He can make use of his finishers while incorporating chairs and tables (Last Ride onto steel steps anyone?), while Hogan really can't with the Leg Drop. Taker has also shown to be able to knock out opponents with the triangle choke, a move that has only been broken a handful of times.

Tombstone: I'm not really sure how you figure a Tombstone can be hit out of the blue, or Taker can reverse HOgan from any position. As previously stated, Hogan is rarely locked in a hold that presents the opportunity get Tombstoned. Further, Hogan has kicked out of the Tombstone, and was only kept down because an outsider slid a chair in right as it happened, not something that will happen in this match. HOgan was taken out of the arena on a stretcher in a neck brace, and came back two days later to beat the Undertaker despite interference again. Essentially, Hogan was caught off guard by the uniqueness of the Undertaker, but once he had just one match, he was able to beat not only Undertaker but outside helpers despite havign recently suffered neck/spine trauma.

Last Ride: Again, not something that can be hit out of anywhere, takes significant set up, and it's not like it's easy to get a 310 lb. prime Hulk Hogan even into that position, but lifting him? The stronger Sid Vicious needed help, and HOgan still "Hulked Out" of it right away. While the Last Ride has a bit more impact given the extra height, HOgan literally sat right up out of the powerbomb from Sid (and Vader) and that sets up for Hogan to be able to at least kick out of Last Ride if not fully Hulk Up.

Hell's Gates. This one actually could be hit out of anywhere, but prime Hulk Hogan was never...EVER submitted. Not even to the point of passing out. He recovered and broke out of submissions from sheer power. You can already see it, Hogan looks out of it, the ref lifts his hand once...nothing. He lifts it a second time...nothing. He lifts it a third time, and it falls, but just before it hits, it stops, and the finger starts wagging, and then he powers out of it.

6. Sit-up - The Undertaker simply does not stay down. The is nothing that is going to get the Deadman to lay down for a ten count. We have all seen the Undertaker take a beating and a half and still sit up almost immediately. Compared to the Undertaker "The Immortal" Hulk Hogan is very, very mortal.

Hulk Up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sit Up. By about a mile.

Very good argument by you, though, I'll admit.

EDIT:

EASILY the Undertaker. Hogan deserves better than a 3rd round exit, but he doesn't get past the Undertaker, especially not in a Last Man Standing Match.

Undertaker OWNED Hulk Hogan, especially when it weapons were used, so why would Hogan go over him now?

The Leg Drop will NOT keep the Undertaker down for a 10 count, yet Taker has 3 moves that can put Hogan's lights out (Tombstone, Chokeslam, Last Ride). The Undertaker is nearly impervious to pain, and I can't think of anything Hogan could possibly do to knock the Undertaker out. Taker has amazing stamina, period, yet alone for a big man. Even if Hogan wounded him, it takes too much to put the Undertaker out, and Hogan doesn't possess that ability.

I don't know if you just watched Extreme Rules, but Hogan doesn't need the leg drop to keep him down for 10 seconds. HOgan is the infinitely more resourceful wrestler, whereas Taker was more of a mindless monster at his peak. Hogan could just as easily pull a Cena and tape Undertaker's legs together.

 

[jmt225]

There's nothing anyone could ever do that could put the immortal Hulk Hogan down for 10 seconds. Nothing. Shit, during Hogan's prime, Warrior was the only one who could put him down for 3 seconds, and even then Hogan was up by the count of 4.

The Undertaker is definitely a monster, and it'd be tough for Hogan to keep him down for 10 seconds, but he'd be able to do it before 'Taker could do it to him. Hogan's the ultimate good guy, but when pushed to a certain limit, he can get ruthless and there would be absolutely nothing 'Taker could do besides just take it, and sooner or later, it would be enough to keep the dead bastard down for ten seconds.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Whomever wins this match, probably wins the entire tournament. I won't be angry no matter who wins this match. Undertaker did what few have done... and that's beat Hulk Hogan during Hulkamania. Sure he had Flair's help with a chair, but still... in the record books, it's a win over Hulk Hogan in the early 90's.

However, we're talking a Last Man Standing match. Where neither guy has ever been kept down for more than 10 seconds. This is a push in my book, but I can give the match to Hogan simply because I liked Hogan as a child and I know that Hogan can 'Hulk Up' and manage to find a way to keep Undertaker down for 10 seconds.

HOGAN!!!

 

[Tenta]

I think that we can all agree that the Undertaker is the last person you would want to face with a Last Man Standing stipulation.

No, it'd actually probably be Hulk Hogan, really.

This match, more than any other, plays right into his hands for a litany of reasons.

You mean it plays more into his hands than a Casket Match? How about a Buried Alive Match? Or any other of Undertaker's "patented" gimmick matches, in which he's only won half of the matches he's competed in, mind you.

1. Everything is legal - As evidenced by his creation of Hell in a Cell and the multitude of hardcore matches he's won, the Undertaker is very comfortable in this situation.

Again, Taker wasn't the one to actually create that match; Vince McMahon was. Alas, I'll just work with you here.

You do realize, of course, that of these "hardcore matches" you speak of, that The Undertaker has only won half of them, right? He's beaten Mankind, Edge, CM Punk, Jeff Hardy, and RVD in gimmick "hardcore" matches. That's it, that's the list. Otherwise, The Undertaker has a very fine habit of getting his ass handed to him in No-Disqualification matches. See: His Boiler Room Brawl with Mankind. Or how about his Hell in a Cell Match with Brock Lesnar?

The point being is, you can, in fact, beat The Undertaker with no rules. All of the names I mentioned before have done it. So has The Big Show, for that matter. And while we're at it, fucking Yokozuna has beaten him with no holds barred, mind you. Now remember that match at the 1994 Royal Rumble. It's going to become very important when you non-sensically bring up the old "He can doe the SitZ UPZZ!!!" argument.

Ask Edge what it's like to face the Undertaker with virtually no rules to restrain him, and he would tell you that it's nearly an impossible battle to win.

Ahem.... Mankind would tell you otherwise.

The Undertaker is extremely dangerous with his hands, but he becomes lethal when you allow him to experiment with chains, chairs, tables, ladders, wire, cro bars, lead pipes, etc. Hogan is one of those who didn't fight often in extreme conditions and, while I concede that a chair is simply to use, he is out of his element.

Are you serious with me, here? This is the same guy who, with Randy Savage, took out eight men in a cage on one event. The Hell you mean Hulk Hogan is out of his element? Sure, he used Frying Pans and powder, but he still used your "hardcore" logic, and used it against eight different men, and got the victory.

2. History - Hogan, historically, has not been better than the Undertaker. The only time I can recall him beating him was during Taker's rookie year. Hogan at the height of Hulkamania was, at best, equal to a rookie that hadn't began to peak.

And Paul Bearer.

And Ric Flair bringing in the chair for The Undertaker to tombstone him. But ok, we can ignore that if you'd really like. After all, this match is "Hardcorexz!", right?

The point being, Hogan and Undertaker did, in fact, have a rematch not but six days later. How did that one go for good ol' Taker there?

[YOUTUBE]qROWWD01yDA&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]fWrsbOoiT0o&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]​

And good luck using that old "Hogan cheated" logic, because the Undertaker did the same god damn thing.

3. Size advantage - The only man who I can recall Hogan beating that had a power advantage over him was an old, out-of-shape Andre the Giant (and a rookie Paul Wight).

And King Kong Bundy.

And Zeus.

And Earthquake.

Seriously, where the fuck are you coming up with these arguments? Do you not remember Vader being made Hogan's baby back bitch in WCW? Or how about fighting off Zeus and that whole "Ultimate Solution" guy? Or how about how he did fighting off Lex Luger? Because, I hope you realize, Hogan has the upper hand in that feud with Luger.

Hogan struggles against wrestlers he can't overpower, such as Warrior,

Yes, he put over Warrior, pretty much forced to by Vince back when he was trying to phase out Hogan. Still, it didn't come without Hogan coming an eyelash from beating Warrior. And it's still the only clean loss in Hulk Hogan's career in the WWE.

Lesnar,

Right, because that was Hulk Hogan in his prime. He wasn't fifty at that point.

and The Rock.

The Rock, a power guy? Maybe athletic is what you're thinking about. But definitely not a power guy. And again, that was Hulk passing the torch, way beyond his prime, to a guy who was younger, far more in his prime, and ready to take over for the Hulkster.

The two big men he has had a degree of success against were both very slow. The Undertaker is a hybrid, a blend of speed and power, two areas where he surpasses Hogan.

Ahem.... What? The Undertaker, fast? I'm sorry, have you watched a recent Undertaker match? The guy's so hurt now, he's actually slower than Mark Henry in there. I'm quite curious who's win a foot race. And in Undertaker's "hey day", he was still slow as molasses. Yokozuna and Kamala moved faster than the guy. Let that sink in for a little while.

4. Style - Hulk Hogan slammed his opponents a lot. Hogan was a virtual one-trick pony. He picked up his opponent and slammed him. In this match, every time he attempts to lift 300 lb. Undertaker, he is going to expend a lot of energy. The Undertaker is a much more versatile wrestler. He has a great power game, is a good striker, and even does submission. A lot of his game won't require him to over-exert himself like Hogan will. In a match of stamina, I think this is important. Hogan, exhausted from his own offense and the Undertaker's, is more apt to stay down after a Last Ride than a fresher Undertaker will be.

Again, having a "stong moveset" never really affected The Hulkster that badly. Sure, Taker may have been a better wrestler, but he's definitely got enough energy to last as long as needed with The Undertaker. If anything, you should be worried for Taker's stamina. As it is now, he doesn't have much gas in the tank. Even in his youth, the guy barely lasted twenty minutes in the ring with his slow, methodical style.

5. Finishers - Hogan's leg drop is hard to execute. It requires a lot of set-up and can never be hit out of the blue. The Undertaker, on the other hand, can reverse almost any of Hogan's offense into a Tombstone or Chokeslam. He can make use of his finishers while incorporating chairs and tables (Last Ride onto steel steps anyone?), while Hogan really can't with the Leg Drop. Taker has also shown to be able to knock out opponents with the triangle choke, a move that has only been broken a handful of times.

You're problem isn't moves, 48, it's keeping Hogan down. And no one has ever been able to do it for a count of ten. Sure, you can argue that The Undertaker is more "versatile", and I will give you that. However, he has to be able to keep Hogan down for a good chunk of time. Even then, much longer than anyone else has.

6. Sit-up - The Undertaker simply does not stay down. The is nothing that is going to get the Deadman to lay down for a ten count. We have all seen the Undertaker take a beating and a half and still sit up almost immediately. Compared to the Undertaker "The Immortal" Hulk Hogan is very, very mortal.

Remember that Yoko/Taker match I brought up earlier? The same exact one I said would be important later.....

[DM]x4llg6[/DM]

Now, I may not be a math major, but I believe it's safe to say that the Undertaker was, in fact, down for a count of ten. Think this was an anomoly? How's about what The Giant Gonzales did to The Undertaker, both at the 1993 Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania IX. Or, how about when Mankind knocked out The Undertaker at the 1996 Summerslam, for far more than a ten count? Or how about after his cage with Batista on Smackdown, where Mark Henry attacked him, and Edge cashed in his MITB.

The Undertaker, in fact, can be knocked down for a count of ten. Logic: Extremely Flawed. You'll have to do better than that, 48.7

 

[The Brain]

Some people have argued that Hogan can't be kept down for a 10 count. I mentioned it earlier, but seeing is believing.

[YOUTUBE]mOteE8Y-rT8[/YOUTUBE]

The video only goes a minute five, which is more than enough time, but Hulk was down a lot longer. So Hogan was down for way longer than 10, and it was at the hands of the Undertaker.

 

[Tenta]

Some people have argued that Hogan can't be kept down for a 10 count. I mentioned it earlier, but seeing is believing.

[YOUTUBE]mOteE8Y-rT8[/YOUTUBE]

The video only goes a minute five, which is more than enough time, but Hulk was down a lot longer. So Hogan was down for way longer than 10, and it was at the hands of the Undertaker.

Brain, you usually have such good logic.... I find your lack of win here easily disturbing.

The match was clearly over, Brain. Sure, you can say he was selling the shot, but it didn't really matter. If this were a last man standing match, I find it hard to believe Hulk wouldn't make an effort to not get up. Hogan was moving around, so he was conscious. He didn't stay down because of the Tombstone, he stayed down because he knew tha match was over.

As opposed to The Undertaker, who whenever is knocked out, is out cold. See, for example, The Boiler Room Brawl of 96. Or how about the Buried Alive Match, where after getting hit by a shovel, The Undertaker is out long enough for five heels to come out and bury six feet of fucking dirt on him. Or how about that last match I posted of Yoko/Taker. Hell, how about the rematch, where IRS put Taker in a fucking sleeper, and he was left in the casket unconscious for well over ten seconds.

Seriously, Brain, you're better than that.

 

[The Brain]

Brain, you usually have such good logic.... I find your lack of win here easily disturbing.

The match was clearly over, Brain. Sure, you can say he was selling the shot, but it didn't really matter. If this were a last man standing match, I find it hard to believe Hulk wouldn't make an effort to not get up. Hogan was moving around, so he was conscious. He didn't stay down because of the Tombstone, he stayed down because he knew tha match was over.

As opposed to The Undertaker, who whenever is knocked out, is out cold. See, for example, The Boiler Room Brawl of 96. Or how about the Buried Alive Match, where after getting hit by a shovel, The Undertaker is out long enough for five heels to come out and bury six feet of fucking dirt on him. Or how about that last match I posted of Yoko/Taker. Hell, how about the rematch, where IRS put Taker in a fucking sleeper, and he was left in the casket unconscious for well over ten seconds.

Seriously, Brain, you're better than that.

Fair point, but your examples aren't much better. Those are gang attacks. The match against Yoko had TEN guys interfere. The Buried Alive match was similar. Maybe Hogan could have gotten up if the match were still going on, but he had a lot of officials down there because it didn't look like he was going to get up at all. I rememeber watching the match in 1991 and noticing how long it took Hogan to get up. I could see your argument if he got up after maybe a minute, but he was down for like five if my memory is right.

I think we need to establish if everyone else is banned from ringside. Taker usually only stays down when he is greatly outnumbered.

 

[Tenta]

Fair point, but your examples aren't much better. Those are gang attacks. The match against Yoko had TEN guys interfere. The Buried Alive match was similar. Maybe Hogan could have gotten up if the match were still going on, but he had a lot of officials down there because it didn't look like he was going to get up at all. I rememeber watching the match in 1991 and noticing how long it took Hogan to get up.

I think we need to establish if everyone else is banned from ringside. Taker usually only stays down when he is greatly outnumbered.

Does no one fucking read the rules to these matches?

This is a Third Round match in the Toronto Region.

Rules: This is a Last Man Standing match. You win by beating your opponent until they cannot answer a count of ten. Anything goes as there are no disqualifications.​

So, yes, Brain. There's no such thing as "everyone's banned from ringside." Hell, if they really wanted to, every single one of The Undertaker's nemesis could go to the ring, beat him up for Hogan, and walk away. I mean, it's not like anything like, you know, rules, are stopping them. I guess that goes into logistics of whether or not Hulk and Taker are the only two in the arena, which I doubt, but that gets into a lot of hypothetical.

But you know what isn't hypothetical? The fact that two of my examples actually didn't involve gang attacks. One of them came from an urn shot by Paul Bearer, and the other a fucking sleeper by IRS. Or, how about the many times Mankind has left The Undertaker incapacitated by the Mandible Claw?

Brain, just give it up. Seriously. Unless you can show me unequivocal evidence of Hogan staying down for a count of ten during a match, you're going to lose this argument. I promise you.

Plus, of course he was down for like five. Match was over, and he weas selling for the camera. Don't think Vince told him to do that?​

 

[The Brain]

Plus, of course he was down for like five. Match was over, and he weas selling for the camera. Don't think Vince told him to do that?

Tenta, you can't go there in a debate like this. Of course Vince told him to stay down. Just like he told Taker to stay down all those times. I understand your point. Hogan was down for an unusually long time after that match. You can easily argue that if the match was still going on he could have hulked up and answered the ten count. I could argue that he was down for so long that I don't think he would have. Either way you can't bring Vince's orders into it or no argument is valid.

 

[Tenta]

Tenta, you can't go there in a debate like this. Of course Vince told him to stay down. Just like he told Taker to stay down all those times. I understand your point. Hogan was down for an unusually long time after that match. You can easily argue that if the match was still going on he could have hulked up and answered the ten count. I could argue that he was down for so long that I don't think he would have. Either way you can't bring Vince's orders into it or no argument is valid.

Fair enough. Now then, however, we're getting into hypothetical. And let's discuss facts.

Fact 1: It does not matter that Hulk would not have answered the twen count there, he didn't have to. The match was over. What did you expect Hogan to do, spring back up after a count of four? The truth is that Hogan was moving around on the mat. He wasn't unconscious, and he was able to move. Eventually, he did get up on his own power. We both have different takes, but I think we can agree that Hulk was conscious, and knowing Hogan's competitive spirit, should the match have continued, I'd aargue he would have gotten up.

Fact 2: For your one presentation of Hogan's weakness, I have presented multiple cases of the same for The Undertaker. And while some were gang shots, which by the way, aren't outlawed in case you missed that, there were a good portion performed by one man, such as IRS, Mankind, or Paul Bearer

Do you have anything to debate either of these instances?

 

[The Brain]

Fact 2: For your one presentation of Hogan's weakness, I have presented multiple cases of the same for The Undertaker. And while some were gang shots, which by the way, aren't outlawed in case you missed that, there were a good portion performed by one man, such as IRS, Mankind, or Paul Bearer

Do you have anything to debate either of these instances?

I'll give it a shot. Survivor Series 94 Undertaker's opponent was Yokozuna and IRS was interfering outnumbering Taker again. No big deal, but I just wanted to point it out. My argument is Taker did not have to answer a ten count. Had a referee been counting I say Taker would have gotten up. Instead he did what he has done in just about every casket match he's been in. He laid in the casket and played possum while waiting for his opponent to approach and then sprang into action. Even if he wasn't playing possum he prevented the lid from being closed at the last second which leads me to believe he could have answered a ten count at the last second. By the way, Taker won the match.

SummerSlam 96: Once again Taker is outnumbered. Not as bad this time because I realize Hogan was outnumberd in my example. The object of this match was to get the urn from Paul Bearer. I always thought this was a weird stip even at the time. Taker clearly had the match won. Bearer refused to give him the urn. He had Mankind down and if Bearer had done what he was supposed to Taker would have won the match. Taker didn't think it was necessary to take the urn from Bearer as the two had been together for nearly six years. Suddenly the match became secondary as Taker was wondering what was going on with his friend. Mankind did capitalize and won with the mandable claw. However, if this was a last man standing, Mankind would have had to release the hold before the ref began the count. If that were the case Taker may have been able to get up. Taker was down for quite a bit after the match, but you've already said that doesn't matter.

That's my kayfabe argument for your other examples.

 

[Tenta]

I'll give it a shot. Survivor Series 94 Undertaker's opponent was Yokozuna and IRS was interfering outnumbering Taker again. No big deal, but I just wanted to point it out. My argument is Taker did not have to answer a ten count. Had a referee been counting I say Taker would have gotten up.

I suppose that's a fair point, but you have a problem.

You see, if I'm the Undertaker, and the point of the match is that I have to avoid being in the casket before my opponent lowers the lid, doesn't that provide some urgency to get out of the casket? I mean, wouldn't it be fair to say that The Undertaker would want to get out of there ASAP. He has now way of knowing when Yoko is getting close to closing the casket. You're playing possum idea is one that is ok, but still doesn't answe how The Undertaker knows when Yoko is going to open the casket. Put simply, he didn't have a way of knowing, and was just out in the casket. So that's one.

SummerSlam 96: Once again Taker is outnumbered. Not as bad this time because I realize Hogan was outnumberd in my example. The object of this match was to get the urn from Paul Bearer. I always thought this was a weird stip even at the time. Taker clearly had the match won. Bearer refused to give him the urn. He had Mankind down and if Bearer had done what he was supposed to Taker would have won the match. Taker didn't think it was necessary to take the urn from Bearer as the two had been together for nearly six years. Suddenly the match became secondary as Taker was wondering what was going on with his friend. Mankind did capitalize and won with the mandable claw. However, if this was a last man standing, Mankind would have had to release the hold before the ref began the count. If that were the case Taker may have been able to get up. Taker was down for quite a bit after the match, but you've already said that doesn't matter.

Fair enough. However, Mankind had an instant to win the match, as well, when Bearer wouldn't give him the urn. Therefore, Mankind would have already won the match. No matter, though. The shot that took Taker out wasn't the Claw, but the urn. That was his weak spot. And again, big difference; While Hogan was conscious and moving, Taker wasn't moving at all, and was out like a light. Similar to what happened to him at KoTR 1996.

That's my kayfabe argument for your other examples.

And they both have holes I can drive a mack truck through

 

[The Brain]

We can keep talking about past matches, which I think is fun so I have no problem with that, but let's foucus on the match at hand. We can revisit older matches later if you want. It was hard for me to vote against Hogan here. I really didn't know what it was going to take to make me vote against him. It took a gimmick match that Hogan doesn't have experience in.

Hogan doens't exactly have a hard hitting offense. You know I'm an old school guy and have love for Hogan so don't take that as an insult toward him. He punches, clotheslines, uses the turnbuckle, big boot, bodyslam, leg drop. I know Hogan can do much more, but those are his staples and neither these nor his other offense would do as much damage as Taker's offense in a last man standing. This match doesn't seem to be as much about offense as it is defense. Both of these guys are hard to keep down. Hogan of course hulks up in all his matches to come away with a win while Taker keeps sitting up no matter what is thrown at him.

Taker has experience is matches like this. He's been in last man standing before. He's been in a boiler room brawl, hell in a cell, buried alive, casket matches, and numerous other no holds barred matches. Hogan is usually in regular matches or cage matches, which Taker has experinece in as well. When Hogan hulks up it's usually following something like a Randy Savage flying elbow, a King Kong Bundy avalanche, or a Mr. Perfect perfectplex. All fine finishers, but relatively weak compared to what Taker can do in a last man standing. I don't know if he'd be able to hulk up after a tombstone on the steps or a last ride through a table. What is Hogan going to pull out of his arsenal to keep Taker down for ten? The legdrop isn't going to cut it. It's hard enough to keep Hogan down for three much less ten, but that's in the confines of a normal match. Hogan's out of his element.

Unless Hogan brings a bunch of his buddies I see Taker winning this. Even if Hogan does bring his friends, Hogan's friends are never his friends for long and shouldn't be trusted. In the end I see a match without interference. Hogan puts up a hell of a fight, but is finally done in by a major move such as a tombstone on the stairs. Hogan can't answer the count as Taker props himself in the corner to be able to stand. Hogan earns a standing ovation for a hard fought match and incredible effort.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

I smell a miscarriage of justice looming...look, Undertaker has beaten Hogan twice, once well out of his prime, both times with outside help. I don't think arguing outside help is a really legitimate argument, because it just quickly falls into farce. I think you pretty much just have to assume it's man vs. man. Otherwise, we'll just have posters saying "Well Taker can have so and so run out." and then another countering with their own guy, and then back and forth, etc etc. It's never ending. What we know is that, man to man, nobody ever put Hogan down for longer then a 9 count (he had a few of those "double knockdown" spots, and Hogan always has the Hulk Up. Hogan SHOULD win. He won't because there are a bunch of smarks (not that all people voting for Taker are smarks. For instance, the Brain is making a decent argument, even if I feel Tenta is winning. ) hate Hogan because "ZOMG, he held peoplez down and didn't work 60 minute Broadways". Hogan wins this by any measure, kayfabe or non-kayfabe.

 

[stillboy21]

I'm not much of a debator but I voted so I thought it should be best to also put my reason as to why. First off I put some vcash on Undertaker in the vbookie section.
Second just off the top of my head, without doing any research I remember Undertaker beating Hogan more then the opposite, though I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong.
Thirdly I've read on here a lot about Undertaker cheating to win so being as this a Last Man Standing Match, anything goes so the better cheater will probably go on to the next round, I believe Undertaker would have to pull all the stops to keep Hogan down and like wise Hogan to Taker but I think Deadmans got more tricks up his sleeve.

 

[TwistofRKO]

You guys have brought up the only way Undertaker doesn't win, and that's if he's anal raped. That's pretty much the only way Undertaker ever loses. So, if Hogan has a group of people raping the Undertaker for him, he's the heel, nWo Hogan, who certainly is capable of being placed down for the 10 count. If he's not the heel, his face friends aren't going to interfere. You got it right there, Hulkamaniac. That's the fatal flaw, though. Hogan isn't going to be able to do enough to put down the Deadman. Hogan can Hulk up and shake off a few of the Best Pure Strikers' big rights, but he's not Hulking up after the Tombstone. The best Hogan can throw at him will result in Taker sitting up at 8, only to get up and finish Hogan off.

 

[Snow_Leopard]

The obvious choice in this match is Undertaker. He has beaten Hogan for the WWE Championship twice, and there is no way Taker will be down for 10 seconds after a leg drop. A Tombstone or two, however, will easily get the job done.