The World Heavyweight Championship was once equal to the WWE Championship - true?

[Creepy Old Man]

The WHC was a mid-card title in the last 3+ years of its existence, never headlining a pay-per-view in its own right after Hell in a Cell 2010 (the main event of TLC 2013 wasn't specifically for the WHC). That's the way people seem to be remembering it. However, I'd argue that from its inception in late 2002 through 2009, it was equal to the WWE Championship in prestige. It headlined WrestleManias 20, 21 and 24, as well as the 2003, 2004 and 2009 SummerSlams. It was often the top title on Raw. John Cena was WH Champion through June 2009, as face of the company.

When Jack Swagger lifted the title in April 2010 with a Money in the Bank cash-in, my concerns that its prestige was slipping were realised. Six months later, the WHC exited the main event picture. A five-minute reign for Dolph Ziggler, after simply being awarded the title in February 2011, confirmed that the WWE title was now a cut above. The WHC limped on for almost three more years before being put out of its misery in December 2013.

While it was clearly tarnished in the last few years of its life, is it fair to say that the WHC was once the equal of the WWE title?

 

[Wald]

Disagree.

I understand what you're saying and WWE certainly promoted it as being equal to the WWE Title at one stage but the belt was tainted as being Triple H's memorial belt in a lot of people's eyes from its inception. As soon Evolution had run its course then it was shunted off to Smackdown to be replaced by the WWE Title and its new standard bearer, John Cena.

It suffered from people believing the WWE Title was the rightful champion due to Brock Lesnar's undisputed championship basically being that title and I'd argue that the only time the belt was seen as being as important was during the Batista v Triple H feud, but that owes more to the feud being the hottest in the company at the time than the World Heavyweight Title.

 

[ShowOffHEEL]

I felt like in 2003 that it was a step above the WWE Title, but once Cena got drafted to Raw in 05 then the WWE Title took the #1 spot and it was never close after that.

 

[FlairFan2003]

It all depends on who wrestles on RAW. During the heyday of HHH/Evolution it was clearly the #1 title, it got the biggest matches and biggest feuds and it was the center piece of the biggest angle on the clear #1 show.

When Cena came to RAW yes that shifted in terms of which title was tops (Id say they were promoted as equal by WWE for several years actually) but what didn't change is the guy who wrestles on RAW is the most important champion.

 

[King Patrick Star]

In my own opinion, I think the World Heavyweight Championship was equal to the WWE Championship during the following periods:

September 2, 2002 – June 30, 2005
June 30, 2008 – April 26, 2009

These 2 time periods were either when the World Heavyweight Championship Title was on Raw while the WWE Championship Title was on Smackdown, or when both the WWE Championship Title and the World Heavyweight Championship Title were together on one show. I feel that whenever the WWE Championship Title was on Raw and the World Heavyweight Championship Title was on Smackdown is when the Big Gold Belt was portrayed by the WWE and viewed by the WWE Universe as the WCW Championship, also better known as the 2nd place prize. To me, the World Heavyweight Championship Title was never number 1. It might have been 1B, but never number 1.

 

[OYDK]

It all depends on who wrestles on RAW.

This is the truth. Say what you want about the WHC losing it's prestige by being handed to HHH, but it WAS the the number one belt on the number one show for a decent period. As much as WWE TRIED to market Smackdown as Raw's equal, there was always the underlying assumption that Raw was your A1 show and Smackdown was your A2 show and imho, the WHC was booked above the WWEC for a good 2-3 years.

The WH champions from the time of the belts inception until after Mania 21 when the belts switched brands are:

- HHH
- Shawn Michaels (won in the EC)
- HHH (beat Shawn Michaels in a 3 Stages of Hell match)
- Chris Benoit (won the belt in the Main Event of Mania 20 defeating HHH and Shawn Michaels)
- Randy Orton (becomes youngest WHC of all time by beating Benoit and begins his epic feud with HHH)
- HHH (defeats Orton at Unforgiven)
- Vacated
- HHH (won the belt in the EC)
- Batista (beat HHH in the main event of Mania 21)

The WWE champions from the same time period are:

- Brock Lesnar
- Big Show (beat Lesnar at Survivor Series)
- Kurt Angle (beat the Big Show at Armageddon)
- Brock Lesnar (beat Angle in one of the greatest matches of all time at Mania 19)
- Kurt Angle (beat Big Show and Lesnar in a triple threat match)
- Brock Lesnar (beat Angle in a 60 minute Iron Man Match)
- Eddie Guerrero (beat Lesnar at NWO)
- JBL (beat Guerrero in a Texas Bullrope Match)
- John Cena (beat JBL at Mania 21 and is drafted to Raw)

Now I'm not saying that the list of WHC are necessarily better than the list of WWEC, but I think it's clear which one was used as the number one belt from 03-05. The WHC match headlined two Manias in a row, created mega-stars like Randy Orton and Batista, incorporated 3 EPIC feuds (Michaels/HHH, HHH/Orton, HHH/Batista), and had some memorable moments such as Benoits and HBK's championship wins. I understand the same can be said for the WWEC, but my point is somebody like The Big Show would NEVER have held the WHC on Raw at this time, and the WHC was the belt that was won by the hottest rising star at the time (Orton, Batista) whereas the WWEC was given to some of the older guys who deserved it (Show, Guerrero, JBL).

As soon as Cena won the WWE title and jumped to Raw, is when the WWEC took over as the clear number one strap.

 

[Wald]

This is the truth. Say what you want about the WHC losing it's prestige by being handed to HHH, but it WAS the the number one belt on the number one show for a decent period

Except that during the time of Evolution and Triple H as champ Smackdown actually beat Raw in the ratings lots of weeks and on average was about equal with Raw in 2002 & 2003

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Whether or not it was ever thought of as being equal to the title consistently is something that can be debated about without any definitive resolution.

However, there were at least times in which, in my eyes, it was promoted as being equal or very near equal in importance to the WWE Championship because of who held the title. As with the WWE Championship, there were champions who didn't seem to generate as much greatness, but that's how it is with every title. Personally, I think the title ultimately started to lose prestige after Kane's WHC feud with The Undertaker ended and his feud with Edge began. Given the level of power and/or respect guys like Triple H, John Cena, Batista, Edge, Chris Jericho & The Undertaker had, I simply didn't see WWE treating the title as if it was the new unofficial upper mid-card title most of the time. Halfway or around the end of Kane's run back in 2010, I think WWE's attitude towards the title as a whole began to change and it started to consistently feel more like a mid-card title in relevance when compared to the WWE Championship.

 

[BillAlfonsos_Whistle]

lol absolutely not.


Having old man Undertaker and Edge pass the belt back and forth for a million years doesn't justify the strap. Anyone else that held that title in the WWE was a total joke IC champ type.

Jack Swagger LOL
Del Rio LOL

 

[Aquaman6686]

lol absolutely not.


Having old man Undertaker and Edge pass the belt back and forth for a million years doesn't justify the strap. Anyone else that held that title in the WWE was a total joke IC champ type.

Jack Swagger LOL
Del Rio LOL

Yeah, Alberto Del Rio, who was also WWE Champion BEFORE he was World Heavyweight Champion. And "joke IC champ type" guys, like Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle, Christian, Randy Orton, John Cena, The Big Show, and Sheamus? Yeah ok.

 

[OYDK]

Except that during the time of Evolution and Triple H as champ Smackdown actually beat Raw in the ratings lots of weeks and on average was about equal with Raw in 2002 & 2003

I KNEW somebody was going to say this but really had hope that they would just let it be... Oh well.

First of all Smackdown rarely, if ever beat Raw in the ratings... I don't know where the hell people get this assumption but it's flat out not true. Don't believe everything you read on these sites. From January- June 2002 SD's tv rating was in the mid 3's to low 4's, where Raw's TV rating accomplished two 5's and was regularly in the high 4's. From June- December SD was averaging about a 3.5, Raw was averaging closer to a 4. In 2003 SD never averaged a rating above 3.7 where, once again Raw was regularly in the high 3's and low 4's. Where the hell did SD beat Raw in the ratings a lot of weeks?

Also, this wasn't the point; I wasn't discussing ratings, I said the WHC was regularly BOOKED above the WWEC. Raw has always been Vince Mcmahon's baby so in HIS eyes, Raw will always be the number one show, and in HIS eyes, the title that is on the number one show is the number one title... So it's booked that way. Get it?

Ratings links: http://www.twnpnews.com/information/smackdown2003.shtml, http://www.2xzone.com/ratings/rawhistory.shtml#.VGEXjfldXlo,
http://www.twnpnews.com/information/smackdown2002.shtml

 

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

I can't really say because I wasn't looking too much into things back then, but for some time between 2004-2009, I believe the WHC was equal, almost equal, or sometimes even better than the WWE title. Maybe WWE always tried to promote the WWe title more, as it seems to be the trademark title of the company (and rightfully so in my eyes at least), but the thing is, for some years, the WHC outshined the WWE title.

Who will forget the battles between HHH and Batista? Edge and Taker? Batista and Taker? Chris Jericho and HBK... So many more. And most of those, if not all, were happening mainly on Smackdown. On the other side, we had the WWE title being traded between Cena, Orton and HHH, throwing Jericho in there when HHH/Cena would get hurt. The only memorable times I have in 2004-2009 involving the WWE title are Orton being psycho, the triple threat match between Cena, Orton and HHH at WM and Eddie Guerrero. On the other hand, who will ever forget the memorable Jericho win, after that match with HBK? Who will ever forget Undertaker and Edge fighting inside HIAC? Or HHH vs Batista for that matter... or Orton winning it for the first time? Or, or, or....

 

[Softcore Holly]

There were definitely times where the WHC felt higher to me. JBL's long WWE title reign stuck out the most for me, while JBL had a pretty good run whatever he did on Smackdown was clearly lower on the totem pole than the WHC feuds on Raw. WM XX was another good example as it main evented that one and if memory serves it also got the hottest feuds not long afterwards thanks to the whole Evolution angle. Of course it also main evented at WMXXIV but I honestly don't remember the buildup or that year as well so I can't really say which title was better at the time.

I'm sure there being more, but I also don't remember the old raws and SD enough to make a sure statement. Either way the WHC definitely had it's time on top of mountain, of course those days are long over but least there was some great memories.

 

[FromGlasgow]

Having 2 world champions in the same company at the same time just never made much sense to me, I think it only watered down both world champions.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Except that during the time of Evolution and Triple H as champ Smackdown actually beat Raw in the ratings lots of weeks and on average was about equal with Raw in 2002 & 2003

You better check that....Smackdown never drew what RAW did viewers wise, one of the reasons it was the "B" show.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Having 2 world champions in the same company at the same time just never made much sense to me, I think it only watered down both world champions.

TECHNICALLY it wasn't the same show though. Smackdown was treated as it's own separate entity, their roster didn't interact with RAW, or vice versa, they ran two completely separate touring companies and had their own PPVs for a long time.

Granted, WWE owned both, but they were not promoted as being related or the same. They were completely separate entities that never interacted outside sharing space on the "Big 4" PPVs or the annual draft.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

Yes, when Triple H had it on RAW from 2002-2005 I'd argue it was even considered the number one championship in the company. Especially in 2003 and 2004... it was the belt that headlined WrestleMania and SummerSlam in 2004. And the belt that the Royal Rumble winners went after in 2004 and 2005.

 

[Aquaman6686]

And the belt that the Royal Rumble winners went after in 2004 and 2005.

And 2006. And 2007. And 2010. And 2011. And 2012.

 

[Dagger Dias]

From September 2002 until June 2005, the belts were unquestionably equal. Then we saw the WWE Championship being the "A" title when John Cena got drafted to Raw that summer. The gap between the belts was not that large at this time though and the World Heavyweight Championship was still a big deal. This lasted until June 2008 when the World Heavyweight Championship came to Raw through CM Punk cashing in on Edge following the draft that summer. This saw the World Heavyweight Championship being the "A" belt for a schoolyear, up until Wrestlemania 25 when the WWE Championship once again took on more importance. A year later in 2010 the World Heavyweight Championship was no longer as big of a deal as the WWE Championship, and by a larger margin than before. By the following year in 2011 it was barely a step above a midcard title by the way it was treated. This remained the case until John Cena won it in 2013 for the unification angle, during this storyline the belts were equal again until Orton unified them. So, for most of its existence, The World Heavyweight Championship actually was equal to or near the WWE Championship in importance. Three of those years that was NOT the case, but the importance that it held during the rest of the time that the big gold belt was around cannot be ignored.

 

[GeminiGarlord]

The A title has always been the one on RAW, independently by its name.

 

[Wald]

I KNEW somebody was going to say this but really had hope that they would just let it be... Oh well.

First of all Smackdown rarely, if ever beat Raw in the ratings... I don't know where the hell people get this assumption but it's flat out not true. Don't believe everything you read on these sites. From January- June 2002 SD's tv rating was in the mid 3's to low 4's, where Raw's TV rating accomplished two 5's and was regularly in the high 4's. From June- December SD was averaging about a 3.5, Raw was averaging closer to a 4. In 2003 SD never averaged a rating above 3.7 where, once again Raw was regularly in the high 3's and low 4's. Where the hell did SD beat Raw in the ratings a lot of weeks?

Also, this wasn't the point; I wasn't discussing ratings, I said the WHC was regularly BOOKED above the WWEC. Raw has always been Vince Mcmahon's baby so in HIS eyes, Raw will always be the number one show, and in HIS eyes, the title that is on the number one show is the number one title... So it's booked that way. Get it?

Ratings links: http://www.twnpnews.com/information/smackdown2003.shtml, http://www.2xzone.com/ratings/rawhistory.shtml#.VGEXjfldXlo,
http://www.twnpnews.com/information/smackdown2002.shtml

From the actual links you posted it shows that in the weeks after Triple H was handed the World Heavyweight title that Smackdown beat Raw four times and tied three times to close of the year. That's where I get it from

 

[OYDK]

From the actual links you posted it shows that in the weeks after Triple H was handed the World Heavyweight title that Smackdown beat Raw four times and tied three times to close of the year. That's where I get it from

Way to try and save yourself from looking like a complete fool. Basically all you're saying is that SD competed with Raw for 7 weeks out of a 2 and a half year span... You're first post said SD beat Raw "lots of weeks", and now you point out 4 (which is probably the ONLY 4 times SD beat Raw). I stand with my point that RAW has always been the number one show.

Don't try and backpedal. Just admit that you've seen it posted multiple times around here that SD regularly beat Raw in the ratings after the brand split, and took it as fact instead of actually researching.