The UK General Election [2017 Edition]

Discussion in 'The GSD Archives' started by FunKay the Inevitable, May 31, 2017.

  1. FunKay the Inevitable

    FunKay the Inevitable People Like Me, We Don't Play

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    This is not helpful. This is precisely the sort of statement that is capatalised on by manipulative and dark forces like the Conservatives and the DUP and exploited to strengthen them. They use this play this off of the SNP, Labour, the Lib Dems and all other progressive parties.

    I understand your frustration, the Tories are in power largely down to their strong results in Scotland, just as I understand the previous frustration of the Scottish electorate with concern to always voting against the Tories and seemingly always getting them.

    But it should be noted: those MP's won't be able to vote on matters that directly affect you and only you Lee: Chris Grayling's much 'beloved' (read as loathed) EVEL (no, seriously) proposals came into effect last year where only English MP's can vote on English exclusive matters.

    The facts are simply this: the SNP should not have run on a platform where indyRef2 was so hardly fought for. They had previously been extremely shrewd at detecting the mood for change and I think there was a real division within the party about whether or not to push for this so hard and so soon. That division clouded their judgment and combined with their shaky track record in government in Scotland.

    What really matters is how many seats can a progressive alliance north of the border take off the Tories in the event of a new election before, during or just after the Brexit negotiations.
     
    #101
  2. Lee

    Lee WZCW's Titus
    Staff Member Moderator E-Fed Mod

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    The SNP fucked it up, it's obvious by all the interviews they've done. Fucking Scottish people voting Conservative? Howare how fucked up is that?
     
    #102
  3. FunKay the Inevitable

    FunKay the Inevitable People Like Me, We Don't Play

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    Playing the blame game doesn't work. It never has and it never will. I get it: the SNP's partial collapse handed the Tories the ability to try and govern, although it also surprisingly gave Labour six seats they had previously not anticipated.

    Scottish Conservative party are in a difficult position now though - their leader is a fairly progressive, centrist within her party who just happens to be a gay protestant, engaged to a catholic. She is the epitome of what the DUP hate. How this plays out is anyone's guess, but she's already making rather loud noises about concerns regarding the potential alliance.
     
    #103
  4. Lee

    Lee WZCW's Titus
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    It doesn't work the blame game, my point is I've had this off Scottish voters for years and now they fuck it up. They need to take some blame instead the SNP are going "well we did better last election so it makes sense we've lost seats" I mean come on take some blame yourself and say "yeah we fucked up, took it for granted".

    I like Ruth Davidson, she's clearly put the graft in in Scotland.
     
    #104
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  5. .

    . We shy worth hair

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    Ugh, the DUP.
     
    #105
  6. Барбоса

    Барбоса doesn't know REAL wrestling...

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    Ruth Davidson should be the next Prime Minister.
     
    #106
  7. HBK-aholic

    HBK-aholic Shawn Michaels ♥

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    HOW has she not stepped down? Calling this election showed such an immense lack of judgement, I don't know how she's currently showing her face or how she expects our trust or support.

    I really hope we get a chance with Corbyn as PM soon, and he doesn't step down before the next election. He gained 30 seats and ran a great campaign with only a couple months notice, and lots of shit from the media.

    On a personal note, as a nurse, if Theresa May had told ME I couldn't have a pay rise because there isn't a 'magic money tree' I'd have punched the arrogant, patronising bitch in her throat.
     
    #107
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  8. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    I'm struggling to think of something Theresa May actually did well during the campaign. I quite like her style, I guess? Very Disney.

    When I woke up this morning, I immediately had to check my phone to make sure yesterday wasn't a dream.
     
    #108
  9. Барбоса

    Барбоса doesn't know REAL wrestling...

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    Corbyn does not deserve a chance to be PM.

    He ran a decent, basic, traditional Labour campaign offering hope, but against the worst performing PM in living memory, with a tragically bad campaign strategy, he still came a distant second.
     
    #109
  10. Navi

    Navi With the safety off!!

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    Maybe someone in the know can answer a question for me. Here in Canada the party with the most seats in the House of Parliament is the majority, of course. The leader of that party becomes the Prime Minister, aka Justin Trudeau right now. The party with the next highest amount of seats becomes the minority and everyone else falls in line behind them.

    How is it that May can have a minority in Parliament and still be Prime Minister? You would have thought that losing seats and becoming the minority, she would have had to step down and the majority leader take over the reigns.
     
    #110
  11. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    He doesn't deserve to be prime minister now or he doesn't deserve to go into the next election as leader of the party?

    If it's now: obviously. He and McDonnell suggesting Labour form a minority government is just a way to prod the Conservative Party and inflate the scale of Labour's achievement. Only those with basically no understanding of politics (e.g. a handful of my Facebook friends) think that a Labour minority government supported by other parties on a vote by vote basis is remotely feasible.

    If it's next election: he's blatantly not going anywhere - and, if he is, it's because he's confident that the votes for a younger Corbynista with cleaner hands can be secured - and it would appear that his opponents within the party are happy to line up behind him. Let's not pretend that he had everything going in his favour going into this election, despite Theresa May taking every opportunity to look like a malfunctioning android. A rabid right wing press is something that you can't change (or at least not if you're from the part of the political spectrum that Corbyn is) but a disunited party and a reputation as an incompetent... apparently you just might.

    "Distant second" is also quite harsh. The fear before the election was that Labour would rack up the votes in safe seats and lose seats as their vote share grew. As it happened, their vote share grew and their seat share grew as well, but they still have lots of votes locked away in seats where they're surplus to requirements. They secured a ten point swing, only came 2.4% behind the Tories in the national vote and established an electoral map that is substantially more favourable than the one they had heading in. I'll concede that to win an election in the UK one has to win within first past the post and be subject to all its bullshit whims, but Labour's in a much better position to do so now than it was even in 2015.

    There is no majority leader. May's Conservative Party is the largest party in Parliament despite failing to secure an outright majority. It's not unprecedented, even in post-war history - Harold Wilson formed a minority government in February 1974 (although there was another election called in October of that year, in which Wilson was returned with a majority). Providing May can secure enough votes (this is where the DUP comes in) she could be Prime Minister for another five years (spoiler: she won't be).

    I'll not pretend to have the slightest inkling about how Canadian Parliament works but, on the basis that most parliaments are based on British Parliament, I'd imagine the principles would apply there as well.
     
    #111
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  12. Барбоса

    Барбоса doesn't know REAL wrestling...

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    Labour did better than expected, but we cannot pretend that that was any kind of victory. They still lost and lost comprehensively in an election that in the end was there for the taking.

    And vote share is not a great way to judge anything - by that measure, Theresa May is the most successful Tory leader since Margaret Thatcher with her 44% of the vote.
     
    #112
  13. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    Fair point.
     
    #113
  14. Stone Cold Tea

    Stone Cold Tea Getting Noticed By Management

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    Looking at the general mood of the country right now, the way the media portrayed him and the fact that Labour themselves were an absolute mess last year trying to oust him, it could have been a lot worse.

    The fact that the Tories are now in disarray and Theresa May is now a dead woman walking I'm content. There is no way he can run a full term and this coalition shows her for the absolute spineless joke that she is.

    Any true leader would step down after that absolute shambles. This election was put on to show how big her balls were and it backfired spectacularly. Now we jut have to sit and wait.
     
    #114
  15. Navi

    Navi With the safety off!!

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    Okay I had to go and look it up. The Canadian Parliament is made up of the Queen, The House of Commons and the Senate. Bills are introduced in the House of Commons and put into law by the Senate.

    The Prime Minister is the head of the House of Commons. He or she is the leader of the party in power (in other words the party with the most seats in the House of Commons). Our Prime Minister would never be from the party with a minority of seats. So that's why I asked the questions. If Justin Trudeau loses his majority in the next election, then he must step down and the leader of the new majority party would be sworn in as PM. Now my head is about to explode.
     
    #115
  16. Барбоса

    Барбоса doesn't know REAL wrestling...

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    But what if there is no majority?

    Or by 'majority', do you mean 'most seats'?
     
    #116
  17. Navi

    Navi With the safety off!!

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    Yes that's what I mean. Whichever party Liberal, Democrat or NDP holds the most seats, the leader of that party becomes the Prime Minister. On a sidenote, we don't get to vote for the PM, we vote for our member of Parliament that's it.
     
    #117
  18. Stone Cold Tea

    Stone Cold Tea Getting Noticed By Management

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    There are 650 seats to take. To get a majority you need 326. Conservatives fell short of that getting 318. That's resulted in a hung parliament. That leaves 3 choices. A minority government, a re-election or a coalition. The Conservatives formed a coalition with the DUP who had 10 seats. Now we have the Coalition of Union Nationalists and Tories. C.U.N.T.
     
    #118
  19. Барбоса

    Барбоса doesn't know REAL wrestling...

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    Same on the PM here. We don't technically vote for PM, only our local MP.

    It seems largely similar to Britain although with some crucial differences. The number of Canadian MPs seems to be in flux all the time as certain provinces and groups must always be represented. Party lines in parliament seem so much more strict, with MPs frequently expelled for not voting the way they are told.

    Given that there is such a thing as a minority government and even a coalition against that minority, it must be possible, however rare, for the leader of the largest party in Canada to not be Prime Minister after a vote of no confidence.
     
    #119
  20. Lee

    Lee WZCW's Titus
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    Votes per MP

    Greens 525,371
    Lib Dems 197,647
    Labour 49,141
    Cons 42,978
    Plaid Cymru 41,116
    Sinn Fein 34,130
    DUP 29,231
    SNP 27,930

    UKIP had more votes than Greens but no representation.
     
    #120
  21. Барбоса

    Барбоса doesn't know REAL wrestling...

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    Don't worry, you have traded them in for the creationist, homophobic, anti-abortion, sectarian DUP.
     
    #121

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