The Dragon Ball Z Thread

[SSJPhenom]

DBZ Topic #28: Too Many Transformations​

Since my last topic went off without a hitch and I had so many responses to it(sarcasm); I figure it's time for another one. Of course it's the resident Phenom of Wrestlezone bringing you DB fans yet another topic for discussion. This topic is simple; are there too many transformations in Dragon Ball?

Before the Freeza Saga, we only had one transformation throughout all of Dragon Ball. That transformation was the Great Ape form (unless you count Master Roshi's bulked up appearance). We had seen Goku do it a couple of times as a child, Gohan do it, and Vegeta do it and that was it. Then we get to Namek and the Freeza Saga and we see Zarbon transform, Freeza transformed 3 times, and Goku transformed into a SSJ. After that, transformations ruled DB. In the Android/Cell Saga we had 4 different SSJs, SSJ grade 2, grade 3, and FP SSJ. Not to mention SSJ2. We had Cell's transformations from Imperfect Cell to Semi perfect Cell, Perfect Cell, and Super Perfect Cell. Also, there was the Super Namekian thing if you want to count that but I don't. In the Majin Buu Saga they just went crazy. We got SSJ3, Majin Vegeta, 2 new SSJs in Goten and Trunks, Gotenks (who can go SSJ and SSJ3), Vegito (who can go SSJ, probably higher), Ultimate Gohan, Fat Buu, Evil Buu, Super Buu, Buutenks, Buucolo, Buuhan, Buff Buu, Kid Buu, and don't forget about Kabito Kai, Then in GT we get even more transformations. General Rilldo, Metal Rilldo, Baby, Baby Vegeta, Super Baby Vegeta, Golden Great Ape Baby Vegeta, SSJ1-3 Kid Goku, SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta, Majuub, Nova Shenron had a transformation, Syn Shenron to Omega Shenron, SSJ4 Gogeta, and I'm probably forgetting a few. Now, in DBS, we have SSG, SSGSS, Golden Freeza, and Frost's transformations. I'm sure more transformations are coming in the Universe 6 arc. Its just too much. In Dragon Ball, fights came down to techniques and strategies. Now, whenever a good guy is losing they just unlock a new form and its getting old.

So what do you guys think? Are there too many transformations? Do you like all the transformations? Do you wish there were less? Let me know your opinions.

 

[Da Prophet]

DBZ has so many transformations that it's become a joke.

If you want to make someone more powerful than have them learn a new move instead of transforming. That doesn't ruin the gimmick of transformations.

Transformations seem like a quick way to sell a new action figure. Give it a new hair colour and suddenly you've got a another toy to sell.

Transformations became a joke by the end with each character having more and more of them. It stopped them being special and made the lower forms pointless since we know the character can just 'Hulk Up' at any moment.

 

[lenguy]

Sorry Phenom. I know you already placed in another discussion that I'll probably weight in on at another time but I have a few things I want to say....

Prepare for a disgruntled rant! I love and hate the Dragon Ball community. There are a group of passionate and loving fans out there that just eat up anything DB(like you guys!). Then there are the entitled group of fans that I absolutely detest. What a bunch of ungrateful spoiled brats. These so called fans, at every turn seem to criticize the direction the DB franchise is heading. These people who call themselves fans are NOT fans of the franchise. These thankless group of people can't seem to acknowledge anything beyond Z. GT was trash, Super is garbage and DB is just an after thought. All they do is bad mouth and complain about everything that isn't Z.

Don't get me wrong guys, Z has its fair share of judgement but its all misplaced. You have the group of people who feel Vegeta was abusively mistreated. He should have been the guy to defeat....everybody. You have the Gohan guys who believe every incarnation of Gohans character is garbage and a woeful mistreatment of his "true" character. When ever they talk about Gohan, all they ever talk about is his five minutes of fame fight against Cell. They believe that the only way Gohan could ever be a great character is if he remained like that; if he remained a badass. Because being a badass automatically makes you a better character, right? Then you have the Broly tards. God, I'm so sick of all the Broly fan fictions and fan theories. Broly coming back in Super? Toriyama to center new movie around Broly? Broly SSG? like give it a rest people! Broly is a non canon character and he is never, NEVER making a return! Oh and my own personal opinion, but Broly was a terrible character....

I'm just so sick of reading on forums or comment sections about how Super is "trash" The animation is "trash" The story/characters/transformations/anything DBS related is "trash". They constantly complain and are seemingly baffled at how people can support DBS.

"

This isn't Dragon Ball!"

True DB fans wouldn't support this garbage!

DBS is a total and utter disgrace!

Why can't DBS be more like Z??

generic complaint about animation

People talk without understanding. These so called fans remember Z for all the flashy transformations. The big scale fights and destruction. the colorful Ki blasts. The screams, the 18 episode power ups ect...ect. They remember all this and think that these traits define the franchise. When its not true at all. DB was a very light heart and comical series that didn't take itself that serious. This is Toriyama. He puts more attention to his characters and their interactions with each other and the world around them than anything else. Z was a transitional period for the franchise and yet people have deemed it that definitive DB experience. Here lies the problem. Because people hold Z up to such a high mountain top, how can anything else ever come close to matching it?? People want more screams? Super Saiyans 5-20? No. Z was great but its by no means the definitive DB experience. The original DB was because it captures Toriyama's true nature as a writer.

I enjoy Super because it perfectly captures the essence of Toriyams's early writing. Super is more grounded and has a light heart with plenty of comical scenes akin to the original DB series. Bottom line is people hate it because it distances itself from Z quiet a bit. People hate that. When super was announced, a lot of the fans expected it to be a spiritual successor to Z. It was, but not in the way a lot of fans were hoping for.

I can understand people's frustrations. I sure didn't know what to expect with Super. BoG and RoF were two completely different movies. So it was hard to judge where Toriyama was going to take the franchise. However, I'm not the kind of guy to form expectations because more often than not, the more to begin to form expectations, the more you set yourself up for disappointment. I went in with a fresh and empty mind not knowing what to expect from Super. I was initially surprised to find it was more like DB than anything else. As time went on I came to appreciate the new direction. Its very enjoyable. Goku getting punched by Hercule, Goku waiting for Bulma to call to let him know about Whis, Goku/Vegeta changing Beerus's sheets/Goku punching Monaka in the face are all classic scenes. They are very much like Toriyama to write something like that and its vintage DB.

I'm sorry this isn't the DB you grew up with. Super isn't Z and it isn't meant to be. Best to walk away if the show still hasn't won you over. Just go back and watch Gohan vs Cell for the millionth time all the while cursing Toriyama for not making Gohan the main protagonist. But hey, you guys always have Absalon.....

 

[SSJPhenom]

What prompted this rant? Was it the reviews from the so called DB experts on YouTube for DBS? If so, don't let those guys bother you. They say that they're true fans because they criticize and hold it to a certain standard. I say that if you do anything besides watch the show and enjoy it, then you're no longer a fan. If DBS is really that bad, then they need to stop watching it and ruining the experience for everybody else that does enjoy it.

 

[lenguy]

I was prompted mainly because of the community. After I watch the latest episode I'll go on Youtube and check out the community's reviews. I'll visit Geekdom, Rhymestyle and all their channels to check out their views and thoughts. After I scroll down to the comment section to see other peoples thoughts and reactions and week in week out its the same. DBS is trash, oh the animation is awful, all these fights are lame. Sure there are people who will offer legitimate discussion but this DBS hate is spreading like a virus. Every DBZ video I check out, all I see are comments relating to how Z has better animation than Super or just generic Super bad mouthing. I'm sure you've noticed it too. I'm just so sick of it. Sure people have the right to an opinion but I feel like most of it is just shameless bandwagon hate.

I'll admit Super isn't perfect. Its created many more plot holes than we really needed. Sure the art and animation might be, dicey and some times down right bad. But this is new content. New material with the man, Akira Toriyama back at the helm. We were lucky enough to get two new movies and then he blesses us with an entire new series and people still act like entitled whiners. He could have just let DB die and forget all about it but that's not what happened. I'm not saying people should be forced to watch it and like it, no. However, I feel like people aren't appreciative enough of all that's happen with the franchise over the past number of years. They act like spoiled children and nothing is ever good enough. BoG; not enough action. RoF; too much action and no story. Super expands on these movies; completely unnecessary even though we kinda asked for it. New content; Fights are lame, not enough punch and kicking and pew pew pew blasts that can blow up planets. Its just never enough; that or its not good enough. Some people will never be satisfied and I get that. But to go on and on about it every week proves what exactly? It won't mean a damn thing. You will complain and Super will continue to go on and do its thing and nothing will change. That's just the reality of things. So for me, its really simple. Don't enjoy it, then stop watching and move on. Plain and simple.

 

[Trill Co$by]

The biggest gripe I get when it comes to Gohan is that they never let him keep training at the end of a Saga. Does he have to obtain some new level? No. Does he have to give up pursuing other endeavors? Of course not. But let's face it guys, when Resurrection F the movie came around, we saw Gohan get trashed. I get it, he wasn't on Frieza's new level but what if he had kept at least his SSJ 2 power up? What if he had still been Ultimate form? Not only would it have kept people happy, but it also would've made Frieza look even better because he would've literally beaten Gohan at his best ever... it would've been (as we like to call it) the greatest put over in DB history lol.

Also, why in the world was Piccolo chosen to join the tournament and not Buu? I'm of the understanding that Gohan went to go retrain, which is all well and good. He needs it. But surely Majin Buu would be a better option than Piccolo.

 

[lenguy]

The biggest gripe I get when it comes to Gohan is that they never let him keep training at the end of a Saga. Does he have to obtain some new level? No. Does he have to give up pursuing other endeavors? Of course not. But let's face it guys, when Resurrection F the movie came around, we saw Gohan get trashed. I get it, he wasn't on Frieza's new level but what if he had kept at least his SSJ 2 power up? What if he had still been Ultimate form? Not only would it have kept people happy, but it also would've made Frieza look even better because he would've literally beaten Gohan at his best ever... it would've been (as we like to call it) the greatest put over in DB history lol.

Gohan just isn't the self improvement type on his own. I've mentioned this before but he's mostly a crutch when it comes to the others. He never seems to find any motive to train himself. He's always relying on other guys like Piccolo and Goku to train him. Gohan only seems to train when circumstances call for him to. Preparing for the Saiyans, preparing for Namek, preparing for the Androids/Cell. Other than that, when's the last time you actual see Gohan take some of his leisure time to go train? Not very often.

He's basically torn between the desire to protect his loved ones and a future for himself and his now family That seems to be the nature of his character. But I do agree that at the very least he could keep up with his training so he doesn't always embarrass himself. He doesn't have to be God level(though it would satisfy some) but train a bit dammit so you don't get so rusty.

Also, why in the world was Piccolo chosen to join the tournament and not Buu? I'm of the understanding that Gohan went to go retrain, which is all well and good. He needs it. But surely Majin Buu would be a better option than Piccolo.

Spoiler

He was chosen. But he fell asleep during the exam portion.So he was unable to compete. Apparently once he falls asleep he doesn't wake up for quite a bit of time. Despite having a 3 second nap in the Buu saga....

 

[lenguy]

This post is going to solely discuss episode 39 of Dragon Ball Super and the events that took place. If you do not wish to be spoiled on any of this then I advise that you stop reading immediately!

Now then, my first reaction to episode 39 would be HOLY SHIT!!!. My second reaction would be GOD DAMN!!!! Episode 39 of DBS took everything that hardcore fans loved about Z and brought it back in major ways. The fast paced action, the bone crushing blows and the rising power levels! I absolutely loved this episode. I knew Goku vs Hit would deliver but it completely shattered my expectations. It also made an old technique new again.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

[YOUTUBE]m_2Rg0ripE4[/YOUTUBE]

Super Saiyan God/Blue Kaio-ken X10! Yes Goku brought out an old fan favorite and combined the power of his God form with his Kaio-ken technique. He used this technique to completely overwhelm Hit and gained a sizable advantage over Universe 6's legendary Hitman. Goku was originally planning to use this technique against Beerus someday. However, Hit's time lapse ability was proving too much for Goku, so Goku brought this out as his counter attack. The following onslaught was just spectacular. Leaving a cliffhanger for next weeks episode as this one ended with a furious Kamehameha.

Now, after seeing this for myself now, its only confirmed my suspicions about the Super Saiyan/Kaio-ken forms. As we clearly see, Goku is able to use the Kaio-ken along side a Super Saiyan form. A lot of people always argued that Goku couldn't do it. But I always bring up his fight with Pikkon during the other world tournament. They're response? Its filler and not Canon. I say, who cares? Its still very much a part of the whole lore.

Its been a hotly debated topic among fans for a very long time. If Goku has the ability to use the Kaio-Ken attack along side his Super Saiyan form, then why doesn't he do it more often?? Its easy. Its stress on the body would be enormous. The only reason I suspect Goku was even able to use it against Pikkon was because he was dead. A dead body would put much less stress against it than a living body. This is evident when Goku was fighting Kid Buu and struggled to maintain the power of his Super Saiyan 3 transformation.

Just because he doesn't do it doesn't mean he isn't capable. The reason he doesn't do it because its illogical. The Super Saiyan form puts enough stress on his body, adding a technique that is literally designed to put stress on the body would do Goku no good in a prolonged fight. So I imagine he opted not to even consider is for that very reason.

This brings us to Super. In DBS episode 39, Goku was stating that the God form is the combination of strength and a calm mind and has maximum Ki control. I would assume that means that Goku is able to control the wild fluctuating Ki of the Kaio-ken much more smoothly in his God form. With much better control over the technique, it would mean the stress on Goku's body is lessened. He's see as using this form not just for short bursts like we've seen in the past but as an almost secondary transformation. So this has to mean the stress on his body is significantly reduced. However, Goku does say that the technique itself is incomplete. Goku mentions that if he doesn't do it right, there is a 90% chance it could kill him. Cureently the only flaw with the technique.

So there you have it. Super Saiyan God Kaio-Ken is now officially a thing and I love it. Will this be a one off thing? Maybe. But if there no more transformations then this could be a viable solution to increase Goku's power to maximum potential. What do you guys think? Love it?

 

[SSJPhenom]

Episode 39 of DBS was damn good. It took me back to when I was 11 or 12 watching a new episode of DBZ and marking the fuck out. I mean, they've brought back the Kaioken. Do you know how nostalgic that makes me? Also, they had all the posturing and screaming that DBZ had. Plus the high paced, hard hitting action that DBZ had. This was by far the best episode of DBS.

I hope the rest of the series is going to be like this. If so, we're in for a damned exciting ride.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

The biggest gripe I get when it comes to Gohan is that they never let him keep training at the end of a Saga. Does he have to obtain some new level? No. Does he have to give up pursuing other endeavors? Of course not. But let's face it guys, when Resurrection F the movie came around, we saw Gohan get trashed. I get it, he wasn't on Frieza's new level but what if he had kept at least his SSJ 2 power up? What if he had still been Ultimate form? Not only would it have kept people happy, but it also would've made Frieza look even better because he would've literally beaten Gohan at his best ever... it would've been (as we like to call it) the greatest put over in DB history lol.

Also, why in the world was Piccolo chosen to join the tournament and not Buu? I'm of the understanding that Gohan went to go retrain, which is all well and good. He needs it. But surely Majin Buu would be a better option than Piccolo.

Buu didn't pass the test. Maybe Toriyama didn't want our universe to be completely OP. Buu is pretty OP after all, as he's on par with SSJ3 Goku.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

I wonder though, the battles seem to be very short-timed given DB standards

I wonder what the end result of this tounament will be. Hit doesn't seem like a villain to me, and Frost seems kinda.. dead.

Also I don't think Champa is the main villain here, he doesn't fit that role.

Maybe Beerus will turn heel after all, and Goku will have to go all out, using his SSJ Blue form, plus a higher version of Kaio-ken, against Beerus and Goku will finally get a win back at him.

Gotta wonder about Hit's role though. Also since there's a Frieza, there has to be a King Cold, right?

 

[lenguy]

Dragon Ball Super Universe 6 Arc Review.​

What's up avid Dragon Ball fans? With this weeks Dragon Ball 41 episode draws the conclusion of the Universe 6 tournament arc and I'm here to give my review and thoughts. But before we been, an advisory.

This following review will contain spoilers for Dragon Ball Super up until episode 41, so if you do not wished to be spoiled then stop reading immediately.

Still here? Alright, lets get into it. I personally really enjoyed this arc. It brought back so many memories of those early World Martial Arts tournaments back in Dragon ball. In this Arc we are introduced to a list of new characters. We are first greeted with Universes 6's God of Destruction Champa who is the twin brother of Beerus and his companion, Vados who is also Whis's twin sister I really enjoy Champa as a character. He's almost the goofy equivalent of Beerus in many ways. He's fat and out of Shape and Vados isn't shy about reminding him these things.

After coming to Universe 7 in search of something we would later discover to be the Super Dragon Balls, we soon find the duo on Beerus's planet. Champa has come to boast about the delicacies of his own universe. However, once Beerus introduces the two of them to a simple cup of Ramen, both Champa and Vados are floored by is deceivingly delicious taste. After finding the place of origins of this exotic food, Champa then proposes a tournament. After Champa learns that the Earth in his Universe has been ravaged by war and its population annihilated, Champa then makes a proposal;A universal martial Arts tournament. If Champa wins then he would use the Super Dragon Balls hes been collecting to swap the two Earths. If Beerus wins then Champa will hand over the remaining Super Dragon Balls over to Beerus who can do as he pleases with them. Beerus agrees and thus preparations for the Universal tournament begins!

Universe 7 team consisting of Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Majin Buu and Monaka Vs Universe 6 team of Hit, Cabbe, Frost, Magetta and Botamo.

I really enjoy a lot of the new characters they introduced for Universe's 6 sides of combatants. My only real complaint I have is that I wish we would have saw more of Botamo. He had an interesting build and body structure that I feel could have been utilized a bit better. Out of all the participants, he's the only one who didn't really get any time for character development. In Fact, I don't think he even had any lines of diolague. Frost is another one I was some what bothered with. It would have been nice to actually see somebody from the "Frieza race" that was actually, a good guy. I didn't really enjoy his big reveal because it just seemed cliche in a way. People were already complaining he was too similar to Frieza before, well now he practically is Frieza. But I guess in order to advance the plot the way they did, it needed to happen. Magetta is another one I'm kind of on the fence about. Interesting character design and concept. I just wasn't really impressed with his abilities all that much. Cabbe and Hit are were its at.

First, as far as power scaling goes, I'm surprised a guy like Cabbe is even on Vegeta's level. After everything Vegeta has been through, all his power up's and transformations, Cabbe seemed to even be on par with Vegeta even in his base form. Cabbe couldn't even transform into a Super Saiyan and here he is going toe to toe with Vegeta. Is Cabbe some kind of Super elite Saiyan fighter in his Universe? At first glance, he really doesn't seem like it. The power scaling in Super is all over the place and it makes things like that hard to figure out. I did, however enjoy the story the fight told. Vegeta helping Cabbe to unlock the secret to the Super Saiyan transformation. The whole mentoring role suits Vegeta when it concerns is fellow Saiyan brethren. The highlight of the arc for me though was Goku vs Hit, Super Saiyan blue Kaio Ken x 10 FTW! Great action, great animation, great fight all around. A lot of people were comparing it to old DBZ and it was very reminiscent of those days. I did feel like ending was a bit disappointing. I don't mean that in the result or the way it ended. I just was hoping they'd go at it for at least another episode but a few hits later and fight ends. Kind of deflated my remaining excitement I had from the previous episode. Oh well.

Over all there were some big high action moments in these fights but I feel most of them lacked any real substance. Goku vs Botamo was very brief. Frost Vs Goku was one sided and stiff. Piccolo vs Frost I feel was a tragic waste. Vegeta vs Frost was again, brief. Vegeta vs Magetta, Vegeta vs Cabbe and Goku Vs Hit were the better outings from the Tournament.

Once the tournament comes to its conclusion, we are introduced to the Omni king; Lord of everything and his two body guards I guess. I seems like there is always a never ending higher archy in DB. First Kami, then King Kai, then Grand Kai, then Supreme and elder Kai, then Beerus and Whis and now the Omni king. So have we reach the peak of the totem pole? Or will there he some sort of Super golden supreme omni king? Ah who knows. Still trying to figure out his character, as it stands right now I'm kind of indifferent. Anyway, Omni king declares that he liked what he saw and decides there will be another tournament. This time with all 12 universes participating. I like this, more characters and unlimited potential. I just hope it's not the next arc. Once they got that out of the way, its time to summon the God Dragon! I really loved the sequence when they summon super Shenron. Visually, the has the best visuals and animation the franchise has ever had. It truly felt grand and you got the feel they were summoning a god. The dragon though was huge! He seemed like he was almost as big as the entire universe. Entire galaxies float by him that looked like little dinner plates. It was truly a sight to behold. I just hope they don't abuse him like they do with Shenron.

Beerus then gets to make his wish. He is mighty secretive of it though. He tells Bulma and the others he wished for a new bed. However as Champa and Vados make their way back to Universe 6, they are shocked to find out that their universes earth has been completely restored and the entire human race brought back. In an unlikely break from his nature, Beerus, the God of Destruction used his wish to create something. It was a heart felt touching moment for Beerus to help out his twin brother champa like that. With that, we have arrived to the finale of the Universe 6 arc and next week we move on to something new!

Final thoughts: Overall, I felt this was a great arc that introduced great new characters and expanded the DB lore and universe in a super way*pun intended*. With great things on the horizon, the arc helped set up a great new expanding journey for Goku and his friends for many more episodes to come. We got some of the best action we've seen in Super. We saw great character interactions that formed new bonds and newly found respect between each universe.

+Champa
+Beerus
+New characters
+more DB comedy
+great use of dead techniques(KaioKen, Final Flash.)
+Vegeta vs Cabbe
+Goku Vs Hit
+Super Shenron
+Great set up for future stories

-Some fights lacking
-Power scaling doesn't make sense
-Omni King

Overall score: 9/10.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I know it's been awhile since I've visited the ole DBZ thread, but I have a topic that I'd like to discuss and that is; how overpowered Goku, Vegeta, Beerus, and Whis are in Super.

In the latest episode of Super, Vegeta was copied by a purple slime called the Superhuman Water. When it copies someone, it copies them completely. Their mind, body, powers, and even their spirits are copied and the original ceases to exist after 5 minutes of being copied. So after Vegeta is copied, there is nobody there to fight the copy except Goten and Trunks. So what do they do? They fuse into Gotenks naturally because they can't beat Vegeta separated. Especially now that Vegeta possesses god ki. So after fusing, Gotenks attacks the copy Vegeta and of course, he can't hurt him. So Gotenks transforms into a SSJ3 and resumes the attack. Keep in mind that Xopy Vegeta is still in base form. Even at SSJ3, Gotenks couldn't hurt Base Copy Vegeta. Then Goku shows up and takes over the fight.

So that means, in their base forms, that Goku and Vegeta are now much stronger than SSJ3. That's not the half of it though. Goku and Vegeta are that strong in their base forms, yet they can still transform into SSGSS forms and yet, they are still weaker than Beerus and Whis. WTF!!!! It was already ridiculous how strong they were in the Buu Saga but now, it's even further out of control. That means that in their base forms, Goku and Vegeta are now stronger than Super Buu. Judging by how Copy Vegeta took SSJ3 Gotenks out with one blow, I'd say they're stronger than Buuhan in their base forms. That's too powerful.

What do you guys think? Are they too strong now? What does that do for other characters like Gohan or Piccolo? Do you like the power scaling in Super? Let me know your opinions.

 

[lenguy]

It is an amazing feat for Vegeta and Goku when you consider just what it means when SSJ3 Gotenks is outclassed by their mere base forms. Beerus was able to effortlessly dispatch of SSJ3 Goku and Gotenks. Granted Gotenks wasn't using his SSJ3 form but really, the result would have been no different.

I don't think Gotenks even at full power is that much stronger than what he was when he fought Super Buu. Super seems to indicate that Trunks and Goten don't really do much training. Not only have Goku and Vegeta attained God Ki, but all they do is train. They have been training under Whis then, on top of that they spent 3 years in the time chamber to prepare for Beerus and Champa's tournament. Plus Gotenks has no discipline when it comes to fighting. Its always a game and he never treats it seriously. Against a seasoned fighter like Vegeta, with is recent power ups, it make sense Gotenks lost the way he did. Still, its fascinating to see just how obsolete the powers of a SSJ3 have become considering just a few short sagas ago it was the pinnacle of Saiyan power.

In regards to Beerus and Whis. Yeah, I don't get it. Goku and Vegeta should be at least damn near on par with Beerus by now. When Goku and Beerus first clashed in the BoG arc(Anime), Beerus confided to Goku saying that he went all out at 100%. However, we later learn that this was a lie in order for Beerus to motivate Goku to go all out as well. How much was Beerus holding back? We can't really say. If you want to reference the BoG film. Beerus stated he was using about 70% of his full power. Once Goku and Vegeta finish up their traing with Whis and after their training in the time chamber, its hard to to think they shouldn't be at least close to Beerus by now. Especially now that Goku can utilize a 10x Kaio-Ken in his God form. The Kaio-Ken should easily close the gap, especially if Goku can go past a 10x multiplier.

I can't really say much about Whis since we still don't know much about his full ability. He hasn't been given a chance to show it. So its hard to judge just how much higher above Beerus he is. The power scaling is Super is all over the place. I still find it strange that a Saiyan from Universe 6 who has no ability to even transform into a Super Saiyan can go toe to toe with beyond God Vegeta. Does that mean Cabbe can beat SSJ3 Gotenks? Or was Vegeta just having fun with Cabbe and holding back the bulk of his power? I don't know.

Characters like Gohan, Piccolo and the restof the Z fighters I think Have been permanently left in the dust. The only way they could possibly get back on par with Goku and Vegeta is if they attain God Ki themselves. But I don't see that happening. Anyway, minor spoilers ahead

Spoiler

I wonder how much future Trunks as progressed. Got to be at least SSJ2. Also, black Goku?? I'm curious on this new arc for a bunch of reasons. Am I alone?

 

[SSJPhenom]

You're not alone. I wouldn't be surprised if Future Trunks is a SSJ3 at this point. He was close to SSJ2 at the end of the Cell Games. Depending on how much time has passed for him, he could be a SSJ3. Also, did you see the previews for the next episode? I think that black apparition is going to somehow follow Trunks to the main timeline and somehow inhabit or possess Goku and that's how we're going to get Goku Black. Other than that, it would have to be an alternate form of Goku either from one of the other universes or Trunks' timeline and that doesn't make sense.

So we'll see. I still can't believe how strong Goku and Vegeta are. Also, when Vegeta was fighting Cabbe, he said that they were even in their base forms, so yes, Cabbe was equal to Saiyan Beyond God Vegeta. Which would make him stronger than a SSJ3 as well. That's kinda ridiculous when you think about it.

 

[Trill Co$by]

I'm not thrilled with the return of Future Trunks, because it makes absolutely no sense. How can he travel through multiverses like that? If anything, this Trunks should be from the current Universe's future time line. Bulma had already known about the previous Future Trunks' time machine so she can build them, plus it just makes sense. Also, I hate the idea of Black/Dark/Evil Goku. I always have. I'm literally at the point where I'm just going to stop watching Super, and accept GT as canon. This stuff is ridiculous and I can't understand why people are entertained by the consistent plot holes and inconsistencies that Akira Toriyama is making.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I thought that I wasn't going to like the new Future Trunks arc either, but that first episode was awesome. It was dark and for the first time in Super, it had a serious tone. Also, for the first time in Super, we have a serious villain who poses a serious threat. Goku Black has already killed two main characters and we're one episode in. I think we're in for a huge entertaining ride.

 

[Trill Co$by]

I'm still waiting for the site I use to upload Episode 48 with subs, so with that in mind I'm stuck on what happened at the end of 47. I'm not going to say Black isn't interesting now. But I still don't understand how they're able to shift between timelines like that. And how does this work with the other universes? Do we now have multiple timelines for all 12 Universes?


Side Topic: Anybody else excited for the release of Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 for this fall? I can't wait to get my hands on the game.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

Side Topic: Anybody else excited for the release of Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 for this fall? I can't wait to get my hands on the game.

I had a blast playing the first game so I am looking forward to the second one. I just hope that they release a PS3 version. I'm already going to have to convince my wife to let me buy a PS4 for the new God of War, which I don't think will go over well.

I wonder if they'll use the same main character from the last game or is it going to be a new character all together?

 

[Trill Co$by]

I had a blast playing the first game so I am looking forward to the second one. I just hope that they release a PS3 version. I'm already going to have to convince my wife to let me buy a PS4 for the new God of War, which I don't think will go over well.

I wonder if they'll use the same main character from the last game or is it going to be a new character all together?

Sadly, it will only be for PS4, Xbox One, and PC. This game has too much power to run on old gen consoles, and dumbing it down would limit it like they had to on the first one.

Also, the answer to your second question is both. In the new game, your original Patroller is the guardian of the city you're starting off in and will join your new character in storied missions. But that only happens if you have a PS4/Xbox One saved file for Xenoverse 1.

I just can't wait to see if we get transformations for other races. That, honestly, would be worth a second game to me by itself. The extras that we're getting is just icing on the cake for me.

 

[lenguy]

I greatly enjoyed the first Xenoverse. I loved the deep customization that you had with your fighters, I've wanted that in a DB game for a long time. I enjoyed the story and the characters they introduced. What I hope they fix is the RNG for items. There are items and moves that to this day I haven't unlocked. Combat was solid but I hope they add some depth to it so you can pull of awesome combos. The early E3 videos I saw look pretty promising.

Also, I hope they actually add Super Saiyan hair instead of just lazily having it stay the same but turn it yellow with your characters. I don't know why but that really bugged the hell out of me. Give me more customization options with outfits, attacks and moves. Give me more races. Give me more masters. Give me the ability to transform into SSj3/4/God/SSGSS and all that. Give the ability to fuse with people. I doubt I'll get all of that but I'm sure a few isn't asking too much.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I also enjoyed Xenoverse but I still think that Budokai 3 is the best Dragon Ball Z game ever. It was awesome.

I always wanted a turn based rpg DBZ game. One where you control the main character who isn't from any of the DBZ stories, he's just for the game. You have a plot specific to the game and you go around meeting the characters from the DBZ universe and you add them to your party. Of course you'd have hp and energy, regular attacks, energy attacks, and special attacks. Then the characters with transformations have an extra button when they're ready to transform kinda like Legend of Dragoon style and when they transform they could only stay in that form for so many attacks and they get access to super special attacks and what not. I think it'd be cool as hell.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Did anyone see the last episode of Super? It answered one of our topic questions. What if Babidi showed up in the future? It was actually what if Majin Buu showed up in the future but close enough. Anyways, the latest episode of Super showed a flashback for future Trunks where he confronted Babidi and Dabura and he defeated them before they could resurrect Buu. It was kinda awesome. Also Goku and Future Trunks sparred and Future Trunks revealed that he can indeed go SSJ2. Goku, however, went SSJ3 and one shot Trunks. It was awesome. I didn't even know Goku could still go SSJ2 or 3 after unlocking SSG and SSGSS. I have a theory on that though. I think as long as he doesn't utilize any of his God ki, then he can still access the other levels of SSJ. Because it's been established that while in his base form, if he uses god ki (Saiyan Beyond God) then he and Vegeta are leaps and bounds stronger than Buu saga tier characters. Then, of course, if he uses god ki while in SSJ form then he becomes a SSGSS. It should then be possible for him to mix his god ki with SSJ2 or 3 and become a SSGSS2 or 3. That would be awesome.

Anyways, all of you that have written off Super you're missing out on a truly wonderful arc so far. This Future Trunks arc is by far the best Super has had so far. It's been great.

 

[lenguy]

I caught all that, really loving this new arc. I figured Trunks had to be at least an SSJ2 and I was right. Not sure where exactly I'd put him in the power scale tho. Maybe around a Majin Vegeta level? I don't know. Anyway, I'm glad that they explained that, because many fans were wondering. I like Future Trunks. Kid doesn't play around, he gets shit done. See's the threat and eliminates it.

I think Goku could always use his other Super Saiyan forms, I mean he still breaks out classic SSJ from time to time. Its just now that he has SSG, he doesn't need them anymore. Transforming into his other forms burn up an incredible amount of energy and stamina, so it makes sense he'd use them less often. I think the only reason Goku went SSJ3 against Trunks was a mere demonstration. Just to show him there are still higher powers to strive for.

As great as I like the new arc, has anybody been keeping up with the Manga? The manga sure managed to tangle things a bit with the recent chapter. For one, Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan God(red form) while fighting Hit. I thought he absorbed those powers? I thought that SSBlue was suppose to be the more stable and controlled variation of the same form? I don't understand how he's able to still use that form. I thought Red was a one time deal. Then on top of that, its revealed that SSBlue actually uses up a fair amount of stamina. Especially when used in succession. They use this explanation to explain why Vegeta lost to hit. I don't get it. Didn't Goku master Super Saiyan during the Cell arc? On top of that, both Vegeta and Goku spent 3 years in the time chamber. Surely they would have been able to at least some what maximize the form more efficiently by then. Then there is all that training they had with Whis, Whis can't train them to use the form for maximum potential? This chapter created way too many inconsistencies for my liking. Usually, I can look past them but this recent chapter threw me for a loop. I mean, the fight itself was good but I still think I prefer the Anime telling. Can't top that Kaioken x10 man.

 

[Trill Co$by]

I haven't seen Ep. 51 yet, but I have to say that I take back the prejudice comments I had towards this arc coming into it. I still hate Future Trunks, I still don't understand how his timeline allows him to enter Goku's timeline post Cell Saga, but I'm interested in the series nonetheless. I also loved seeing Cell's Time Machine get some much needed shine at the end. Just another one of Goku's greatest enemies coming back to help the Z-Warriors (or are they Super Warriors now)?

Also, as for the theory of SSGSS2 or SSGSS3, I would say that with the tole that SSGSS + x10 Kaioken took on his body, going into SSGSS2 stage is a risk nobody is willing to take at the moment.

--

Also, on a side note for those not keeping up here's some news confirmed for Xenoverse 2.

1. Super Saiyan now lets CACs go up to SSJ3, however the infinite Ki spamming is no more. Now Super Saiyan transformations work similar to BT3 where they increase your power. Also, if the footage I watched was indication to go off of, the ki drain is a lot slower for SSJ and SSJ2, however SSJ3 will drain fast.

2. Majins and Frieza Race have been confirmed to have Kid and Golden form transformations, and Bandai Namco let it out that Humans will have transformations too. Also Rhymestyle (biggest Dragon Ball youtuber) has confirmed that Namekians will also get some form of transformation.

3. Pre-Order deals will give you EXCLUSIVE rights to Goku Black. Similar to the Golden and Silver Battle Suits in XV1, you also get General Tao's Flying Log to ride on (giggity).

4. Pre-Order deals have also confirmed that you get early access to play as Dragon Ball Super's Trunks... which means Super is confirmed for DBXV2 DLC.

5. An Open Play Test Beta is set to be released soon. No news on if it's PS4 exclusive again or not, but here's to hoping us Xbox One fans get in on the goodies too.