Space

ABMorales787

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You know. That thing you see on the sky at night. Covered with a lot of sprinkles. Apparently it's like really really big and stuff. The stars we see are suns like ours but most are even bigger. Imagine that. And they look so damn puny from here. Work is it just keeps on going and going and that only 10% is known to scientists. Meaning, we know what we can see. And judging from what we can see, which is a lot... the universe... Is freakin' HUGE! However there are many theories that say it's expanding, it's infinite, it's shrinking and so on. Obviously they can't all be right. But due to the size of the place, we can't be certain. So which is it then?

I think it's just actually a huge circle. To explain better, simply jump on a ship and fly off. Light year and light years later, at some point or other, you'll end up on Earth again. With proper direction of course. I don't really think it expands or shrinks. If it expanded or shrined, why is Mars still the same distance from Earth? Why aren't the orbits of the planets affected? Infinite? Doubt it. You trying to tell me we could keep going and going and just discover planet after planet? galaxy after galaxy? And just go on forever never running into the same place? I don't buy that. There's gotta be a loop somewhere.
 
I actually have to agree with you. It's like back years ago when people thought the earth was flat. seeing there was no way of knowing back then. The way I have always seen it is that Earth is like one small country on a map of the world. while it seems like it spreads out for eternity It don't. it just seems that way because it's unknown.
 
I don't think it's circular, I think it's literally infinite. It's a bizarrely difficult concept for us to wrap our minds around the idea that there is no beginning or end to space, but it's very possible. After all, one of the key concepts of space is time. NASA is in the process of launching a telescope that will allow us to see billions of lightyears away, and this will allow us to look at the beginning of the universe. We won't be able to see Earth of course, but we will be able to see planets and stars that are just being created because the image is just reaching us now. Back to my point, time isn't necessarily finite, and while linear, any high school geometry student can tell you that a line doesn't have to have a beginning or an end.

Space fascinates me, and we will probably never learn even a fraction of what there is to know about space before we're all dead and gone, but the prospect of learning even just a little bit is one of the most exciting things in science in my mind.
 
I don't think it's circular, I think it's literally infinite. It's a bizarrely difficult concept for us to wrap our minds around the idea that there is no beginning or end to space, but it's very possible. After all, one of the key concepts of space is time.
Who's to say going in a certain direction in space couldn't eventually lead you to Earth but in the past? I know it's pretty far-fetched. But if the universe is infinite, and it has it's relationship with time, could it be possible to go backwards in time by going closer to said beginning of the universe? Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have watched Paycheck, but it's a thought.

NASA is in the process of launching a telescope that will allow us to see billions of lightyears away, and this will allow us to look at the beginning of the universe. We won't be able to see Earth of course, but we will be able to see planets and stars that are just being created because the image is just reaching us now.
In another time-related deterioration of the topic, is it really beginning to form itself now as we see it? Or is the distance so large that what we see is delayed greatly?

Back to my point, time isn't necessarily finite, and while linear, any high school geometry student can tell you that a line doesn't have to have a beginning or an end.
Just like knowledge, a line is something you define.

Space fascinates me, and we will probably never learn even a fraction of what there is to know about space before we're all dead and gone, but the prospect of learning even just a little bit is one of the most exciting things in science in my mind.
Definably. Very fun subject, indeed. Even if it's just talking about the stars or just looking at them. Their odd formations and such. There's always something fun to discuss about it.
 
In another time-related deterioration of the topic, is it really beginning to form itself now as we see it? Or is the distance so large that what we see is delayed greatly?

It's just delayed greatly, but we're still going to see exactly what happened. It would be like watching a baseball game on DVR, you're watching exactly what happened, just a few hours later.

And I was actually thinking about that being able to look so far in the Universe that we eventually see Earth, but that's extremely unlikely, impossible if the Universe is infinite. That said, perhaps time does loop, and we would be able to see all the way back to the creation of earth, but I would imagine that it would be extremely difficult to locate the event and it could take years upon years to actually watch it happen.
 
The only question is really how you conceptualise spacetime, there's not much to say about actual space. The universe is not infinite, because you can see the remnants of how it began and you can tell that it is expanding, because of red shift. The shape of the universe is arbitrary, but if you assume that everything is moving away from everything else, the only conceivable shape it can be is spherical. That's not to say it's shape isn't inconceivable though. From what I remember, the universe has to have been geometrically flat, which doesn't mean that it is necessarily like a piece of paper, but it does mean that if it is a sphere, it is such a large sphere that it seems flat at the scale of the universe. To visualise this, put a triangle on the floor. It will look flat and the angles will add up to 180 degrees. Now, draw an imaginary triangle from Europe to Africa to America. The curvature of the earth will mean that the angles won't add up to 180 degrees. In the universe we can see, the angles do add up to 180 degrees, so it has to either be flat, or the observable universe is such an insignificant thing that it seems that way.

I don't want to be patronising, but you can't say that because minor local distances don't change that the universe as a whole can't possibly change. If a family moved from Australia to England, the two sons of the family would still live in the bedrooms next door to each other, but they'd both live a hell of a lot further away from the Sydney Opera House than they used to. By your logic, they haven't moved. There's a lot that isn't known about the universe, but everyone has thought that it has been expanding and finite for the best part of 70 years as it is the only explanation that makes sense for what we see.

As for the NASA telescope, while it's true that they are always looking further back in time than we are, it's not to see planets form, but galaxies. Planets, on the grand scheme of things are not very interesting, and are barely visible 10 light years away. The sorts of objects being looked at now are literally a billion times further away. The chances of being able to see the big bang are nil, because there was an light inpenetrable cloud that existed until about 400,000 years after that happened. You can see the remnants of this cloud yourself if you turn your TV on and put it on a channel that isn't tuned in, about 1% of the static you see is a remnant of that post big bang cloud.
 
Space is interesting because for us it is literally the final frontier and there is so much that we don't know, for everything we do know there are 100 more questions to be asked. For example, what is space? Is space just in fact that? Nothing but empty space? What is beyond what we cannot see? How did the big bang happen? What caused it? Even more so..what came before it? How Large is it? So on and so forth, there are an infinite amount of questions.

Well for starters Space is indeed not just empty space. Space, according to Einstein is a fabric called spacetime, meaning space and time are interlocked and one in the same. Just because you cannot see anything does not mean there is nothing there. Black holes,dark matter, dark energy. Dark energy in fact is said to take up about 70% of the observable universe and is the leading culprit as to why the universe is expanding at a startling pace. As for Size, the universe is said to be spherical and infinite and could possibly be as large as 94 billion light years across(this is just what we can see).in fact it could and in all likely case is bigger, light just has not reached far enough yet in ether direction which prevents us from seeing any further. With some 100 billion plus galaxies with some trillions and trillions of stars, you get one really large place, I once heard there could even be as many as 300 sextillion(Which is a mighty enormous number..thats a lot of zeros). So in basic terms, the universe is almost beyond our normal human understanding.

It is actually very complicated, so much in fact it can tie your brain in knots. As far as the Big Bang is concerned, people are still undecided on what actually caused the big bang. Why did it Bang?What caused it to bang? Nobody really knows, Scientists have always thought of the big bang as the starting point, as the moment of creation of everything we know of. Now Scientists are beginning to rethink this notion and are starting the thing the big bang was actually the end of something else entirely. Everybody knows that inflation is what caused the mass expansion of the universe but now behind closed door, there are more and more scientists that are questioning the big bang, as I've said, everybody knows what happened after but now people want to know what was before, what exactly caused the big bang? Well, an idea that seems to be getting a lot of seem is that we live in a multiverse that we are just one of a possibly infinite amount of other universes. The basic idea is that each universe is located on some kind of membrane and when one of these membranes come into contact with one another then they create the energy necessary to create a big bang which creates a universe which could possibly explain how our universe came into existence, with the collision of two of these membranes.

As for the death of the universe, the scientific community have pretty much come to common ground as think that the universe will end in a big chill. The universe will keep expanding forever and there will come a time(some 50 billion years from now)When everything is so far apart and light takes so long the reach distant galaxies that the remaining stars will exhaust all their remaining fuel and burn out and this will continue to go on until there is nothing left and the universe becomes a very cold and dark place. Then there is also the big rip theory and the big crunch. The big rip states that dark energy will continue to expand the universe at an accelerated pace that everything will be traveling so fast that all matter will be ripped apart, even the smallest atoms. The big crunch is almost the opposite. Gravity will eventually stop the accelerated expansion on the universe and pull everything back together into another singularity and the process will then start all over again. Which ever you decide to believe, our future looks grim no matter which way you slice it.

as far as the little bit on the expansion of mars and such and such. The universe is so massive that it does not have much of and effect on the grand scheme of things. The galaxies are held together by the super massive black holes at the center of all galaxies, dark matter also plays a key role in holding a galaxy together so they don't spin to fast and basically fall apart. Mars is in the same orbit from earth because all the plants orbit around the sun, they are all held together by the sun's massive gravity and coincidentally happen to be traveling at a nice speed which keeps them in orbit so as they don't fly off into the depths of space or into the sun itself. The suns gravity is so massive that it effects the things furthest away from us, such as the kuiper belt which extends as far out as 55-100 AU(Astronomical Units) Which is where many scientists believe that Pluto is from,Pluto is the start of the Belt which is said to be has 200 times as massive as the asteroid belt. Going even further out is the Oort Cloud. Which is approximately 50,000 AU(nearly a light year) out. This is where the Sun's gravitational influence ends.

You trying to tell me we could keep going and going and just discover planet after planet? galaxy after galaxy? And just go on forever never running into the same place? I don't buy that. There's gotta be a loop somewhere.

lol wut? Planets only exist in galaxies for the most part, much of the know physical mass that we know of exists in these galaxies, out of the galaxies are just stray space junk that are left overs from the big bang(and mostly dark energy). If you indeed kept going you would not discover "planet after planet" "Galaxy after Galaxy" The universe has only been around for some 13.7 billion years therefore it has only expanded for that amount of time. There simply has not been enough time for the galaxies and light to travel beyond a certain point(which is sometimes know as the light horizon). The universe as simply not had enough time to expand past this point. This is why we only know of the observable universe(all of which we can see up until a certain point). If you were to some how reach this point and keep going then I guess it is possible at some point you would simply arrive back at the point you start from but I think you would just keep going...and going..and going, forever, possibly never reaching anything. At some point you would become lost, seeing nothing but blackness in all directions and you would be fucked.

These things are explainable if you take the time to do some research into it. My former science teacher was obsessed with all things universe and would often explain stuff like this for much of the period and is quite fascinating and prompt me to do some research of my own. Things are more complicated than you realize, so complicated that even the most brightest and sharpest minds have difficulty comprehending much of it.
 
We will never know, within this lifetime anyway, how vast space is. I think that it's infinitely larger than we can imagine. When I hear things are so many "light years" away, it becomes painful to analyze. Think about it. If a certain star is said to be 9 light years away, then that star you're looking at is light from 9 years ago. Does that star even exist anymore? You won't know until 9 years from now if it exists at this moment. So, things get really complicated when you talk about space. It's something that's really almost impossible to understand. The idea of what's out there has fascinated our species for thousands of years, and it likely always will. There could indeed be some type of loop out there, or it could be infinite. We do not have the technology to find out right now so all we can do is speculate.

Also.... how do we know there isn't some other plane involved beyond space? We go from one plane (the earth) to another (space) to nothing? No, I believe there could be more to it than that. The cool thing about it is even though we DON'T know, we have vivid imaginations that can help us picture what might actually be out there. Once again, all we can do is speculate because we don't have the proper technology yet to find out 100% for sure what the mystery behind space is.... and don't even get me started on black holes. That's for a whole other thread.
 

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