Some Proposed Changes to Fix Wrestling in the US

Discussion in 'The Wrestling Archives' started by peter_midnight, Dec 13, 2014.

  1. peter_midnight

    peter_midnight Occasional Pre-Show

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    I haven't watched enough wrestling outside of the U.S. since the early 2000s to make this a worldwide proposal, but I have been watching enough mainstream (and some indy) U.S. wrestling to think this is a valid proposition.

    In the early 1990s, Giant Baba the owner and president of All Japan Pro Wrestling decided to get rid of DQ and count out finishes to matches and to make all matches end in clean finishes, which would take his company to the next level in terms of match quality and drawing power for the rest of the decade. I think the WWE and all other U.S. promotions can take some variations on this approach. Mark Madden has proposed a quality control position in order to make sure that wrestling is logical on paper before being filmed on camera. I propose a similar approach.

    Pro Wrestling is at it's core a simulated sporting event with the line of reality and fantasy blurred. It is my opinion that it has veered too far off into fantasy land and needs to start being more reality based again. In order to do so, I propose the following suggestions:

    1. Make DQs mean something.
    It can't be the case that a guy can get disqualified and this mean nothing. In terms of boxing and other sports, a disqualification can be a serious offense resulting in serious consequences from the sanctioning bodies. For example, Mike Tyson was DQ'd for biting off the ear of Evander Holyfield and had his boxing license revoked. How is it that wrestlers can hit guys with chairs in the head/face, use sledgehammers, and commit other offenses that are caught on camera with almost no repercussions?!

    I think restoring this kind of credibility would work in the long run as the DQ could be used more sparingly to cause controversy for big money rematches. Also, as an adult it's very hard to take wrestling seriously when guys are doing things that would get them lifetime bans in other sports while merely getting a slap on the wrist in wrestling. Heels can be unlikeable without going to the extreme.

    2. Judges.
    Most combat sports have judges in case the fights go the distance. Wrestling is the only "sport" I can think of where matches have completely not gone the time limit for years. It used to be pretty often where matches would reach the time limit. This can easily end the DQ madness, which is obviously used to protect wrestlers and draw heat. Instead, bring back time limit draws, then as a result of too many draws, bring in judges. Now you have a perfect reason to have controversial decisions that result in rematches. Protecting wrestler problem SOLVED!

    3. Get rid of the dumb rule that DQs and Countouts will not result in title changes.

    Exactly what is the point of having these as ways of winning a match if in title matches they can't change hands, especially in the case of a countout. I can understand a DQ resulting in someone being stripped of the title versus winning it, but why is it if I slam a guy so hard on the outside of the ring that he can't physically answer the 10 count, I can't win the title? It's basically a technical pin/submission (depending on how the countout occurs), which is the equivalent of a TKO in other sports.

    4. Use the more technical aspects of wrestling to create interest in rematches.

    Example: WCW Referee Randy Anderson used to count fairly quickly during the pin. That could be used as an excuse for a rematch with a heel requesting a referee with a "fairer" count. Or a ref could be known as the ref that lets a lot of things slide resulting in babyfaces losing matches due to a lot of rule bending/breaking.

    Another example: Wrestler gets thrown into a camera man on accident, which results in an accidental butting of heads or head to camera impact, which results in a knockout or in the wrestler being taken advantage of resulting in a loss. BOOM, you have instant cause for a rematch with a credible reason.

    The entire premise of the above is to get wrestling back into reality and more importantly, to make sense. I understand they're marketing to kids, but as a kid, I loved combat sports, so the idea that it can't be reality based in order to appeal to kids is absurd.

    Press conferences, training camps, cornermen, etc, are all things that should at the very least should be considered in this day and age. While I love some of the more ridiculous parts of wrestling, it does seem absurd that The Rock could be in a limo (or was it an ambulance? I'm too lazy to look it up) and be hit by a Semi truck at full speed by Hulk Hogan and still be well enough to fight at Wrestlemania in a matter of weeks or ever again really. Furthermore, it's pretty ridiculous that the nWo were basically committing assault/attempted murder on camera and didn't even get arrested let alone go to court for their crimes.
     
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  2. jpickens

    jpickens Pre-Show Stalwart

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    I propose bringing back the 30 day title defense rule I mean this shit of guys like the Rock and Brock Lesner for example winning championships and only making once in a blue moon defenses does nothing to bring prestige to the belts and gives casual viewers the image that championships are nothing but props and have no meaning to them 20 or thirty years ago unless you were Hulk Hogan both men would've been stripped of the belts and a tournament would have been held.
     
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  3. lil steroid meat

    lil steroid meat Unregistered User

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    Too many rules in fake fighting generally never work and you're just putting yourself in a booking corner.

    I agree with the press conferences and "training camps" though, those are neat things that could be used to advance the story.
     
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  4. peter_midnight

    peter_midnight Occasional Pre-Show

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    This rule I'm up in the air about, but since they already had it, dropping it with no explanation is pretty dumb so yeah they should enforce it or justify it no longer existing.

    As for Barack's comment, how am I putting myself in a booking corner? All Japan basically did what I did and sold out the Tokyo Dome countless times in the '90s proving a clean finish policy can work. Also, I'm not talking about adding new rules, I'm talking about enforcing the existing ones. My point was that how the hell is a DQ not a serious offense in wrestling when in every other sport a DQ usually results in a suspension at the minimum.

    The other point was how is it that these guys commit what's akin to assault or in some cases attempted murder without ever going to court for it? It makes for being unrealistic viewing and turns me off as an adult.

    As for the press conferences. I always liked the fact that WCW did the press conference for Bash at the Beach '94 for Hogan vs Flair, which was definitely the right call.
     
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  5. shooter_mcgavin

    shooter_mcgavin Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    I remember back in the old school days in title matches when the defending champion is a heel, even if the face wins via countout or DQ the fans would go nuts and cheer. Now fans would get pissed.

    I am thinking there was an incentive to see the faces win but I also think the argument is that the face still won and there's the winner's money that commentators use to argue why even a DQ or countout win meant something.

    Does it make sense to return the use of the "winner's money" so that the bookers can justify a DQ/Countout win by the face?
     
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  6. peter_midnight

    peter_midnight Occasional Pre-Show

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    I remember this as well. Fans get pissed because no title change, I believe. I would imagine hardcore fans would get pissed for not having a definitive conclusion. Unfortunately, everyone knows there is no such thing as a winner's and loser's purse anymore. I think DQs need to pretty much be eliminated altogether and used on a VERY sparing basis. If you look at other sports, DQs are serious and usually result in a suspension or ban depending on the offense. I don't see how people can take the DQ seriously if it happens all the time.
     
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  7. tdmoon

    tdmoon Pre-Show Stalwart

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    You seem to want to keep comparing wrestling to "other sports". Wrestling is a completely different animal than boxing or football. Why treat a wrestling match as a legitimate contest when everybody watching knows it isn't?
     
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  8. pkpro

    pkpro New Member

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    Title changes via DQ? No, no no. That is used to generate heat. Heels used to use it to save their titles. WWE in general has gotten rid of this recently as the Authority has sucked up all the heat like a vacuum.
     
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  9. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

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    None of these would "change wrestling" in the way you want it to... arguably the best thing is the one thing I have seen in recent weeks...

    Someone needs to get guys in the business OUT of the mindset that Vince's game is the be all and end all...to get talents thinking aspirationally about the business again outside of a WWE context.

    The one guy doing that (for the second time) is Jeff Jarrett. His recent interview was quite inspirational in a way, he's talking up the business, how these alliances with NJPW and AAA are actually going to be AMAZING if they come to fruition... he talks of full circle a little bit and with the passion he has and seemingly the other companies in his corner, he has a legit shot at creating a latter day equivalent to the NWA... GFW, AAA, NJPW... as well as European companies could make the GFW concept something that could excite talents into NOT wanting to go to WWE.

    Every shoot from guys like Bischoff and those who made money from TNA and WCW is "We'll never see that again..." maybe we won't... but that's not to saw GFW couldn't, with the right backing and talent create a viable approximation of what Vince destroyed back in the 80's... Today's guys making money in the WWE are tomorrows promoters and Jarrett is pretty important in showing them they can do that... guys like Bryan, Punk may decide to give it a go once their big paydays in WWE and UFC are ended...

    The talent is out there and WWE doesn't use a lot of it... all it will take is some name guys with money they can invest while they can still go a bit and we could get an almost "territory" situation appearing again.

    THAT is what would improve wrestling right now... getting out of sole control of Vince and back into the hands of wrestler/promoters like Jarrett... him saying he "wants the Rock" isn't hot air or pandering... it's a rallying call... he might not get the Rock (could you imagine if he DID set up/invest in a fed though) but there are probably others out there who would...
     
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  10. Hollywood Naitch

    Hollywood Naitch The current reigning and defending

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    Great post. I really hope Jarrett's plans GFW do come to fruition, as an NWA-style alliance between indie promoters could be a great idea, and help to offer talent a genuine alternative from the WWE, giving Vince the competition he desperately needs. Jeff Jarrett has a genuine passion for the wrestling business, the business could use more hungry promoters with the knowledge that he has.

    I doubt he'd ever get The Rock to appear but if his ideas do come off, who knows who he could persuade to get on board with GFW, and he'd be creating more stars and talent making more a healthier wrestling business.
     
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  11. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

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    He'll never get the Rock in a million years... but a lot of WWE guys right now are not gonna be happy, but they're making enough money they could risk a million each to start something once their deals are up... Imagine if in 2 or 3 years Ziggler, Bryan, Punk and Barrett all decided to work together in an almost reverse Radicalz situation. They put some money up, GFW the rest... take the risk on a big show in London or something using those 4 guys with some GFW talent...

    By saying he wants the Rock, he's saying to those below "I want you guys too, but I'm aiming high, so should you..."
     
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  12. peter_midnight

    peter_midnight Occasional Pre-Show

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    Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but no, no, no! This doesn't change wrestling all it does is change the landscape of wrestling, but the fact is that even if WCW were around I have a feeling wrestling would have eventually gotten to where we are today, but in a slightly different state. Once Russo came along, WCW stuck with using writers (Ed Ferrara stayed when Russo left), so I have a feeling it would have devolved into a slightly upgraded version of TNA, but who's to say for sure.

    The point is that wrestling needs to change with the times. You can't have guys doing outlandish shit on tv and expect anyone outside of children to buy it. You can have outlandish gimmicks, but the in-ring action has to be credible. How is it that I see a power bomb in the UFC end a fight in a KO, but in wrestling people kick out of it? That's what I mean. Baba didn't get rid of the DQs, but he ended the booking of DQs. This is the way to go and again it should be used SPARINGLY, as in on the right occasion.

    Some say you can't book 45 min matches anymore due to attention span issues, I have a solution for that too...ROUNDS! Europe used to have it (not sure if they still do) and so did the defunct AWF. That can be where the judging proposal evolves to. I wish JJ the best of luck, but if I see king of the mountain matches, then as far as I'm concerned all we've done is gone back to the 1990s where hotshotting put wrestling where it is and has been ever since.

    If the fans don't want it fine, but in my opinion, this is the evolution wrestling has to make in order to recover before it reaches Rollerderby status. I remember way back when a guy could do a german suplex pin and accidentally get pinned because his shoulders were on the mat and he lost instead of his opponent. These are definitely much better finishes that keep wrestling in the sporting context, which is what George Scott was a master of back in the 80s.

    Someone needs to study George Scott's booking, combine it with elements of Kevin Sullivan and Bill Watts, and evolve it for 2015. No more backstage segments (outside of interviews), no more gimmicks that can't be believed (unless pulled off really well, which obviously would have to be experimented with), no more 20 minute in-ring mic segments with no interviewer, no more BS finishes that don't result in serious repercussions, and no more nonsense period.

    If you think heels can't exist without the above all you have to do is look at Floyd Mayweather and Mike Tyson.

    To the guy that said you can't look at wrestling as a sport, sure I can. Lou Thesz said that it's supposed to be an exhibition. Someone else has said that it is simulated sport. I think gimmicks are fine, but they need to be in context of these guys being athletes.
     
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