Shinsuke On The Mic Makes Me Cringe

Discussion in 'The Wrestling Archives' started by Pay Per Ghost, May 24, 2017.

  1. Pay Per Ghost

    Pay Per Ghost squashed Disco Inferno to become

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    And I can't be the only one seriously.

    He is great in the ring, and NXT did wonders for his persona but he still can't talk worth a lick. Now I have heard that he actually speaks pretty good English but I haven't heard or seen it yet.

    Maybe not let him talk so much because the live audience is s******ing even though they like him. Let him do small soundbites and get it done till he can go on the mic. Good thing Punk isn't feuding with him or he would have permanently killed his persona like he did with ADR.

    But seriously, am I the only one?
     
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  2. Pika

    Pika Pre-Show Stalwart

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    It's incredibly hard to learn English in a case like his. He's made improvements, but it'll never be on par with what most North American or even European fans would want. They're really kind of pushing the "He is Asian. He dances. What an eccentric performer" thing in lethal and transparent doses. Cringe? Not really. I enjoy the "Rockstar" thing a bit more than the awkward prince and Jackson comparison. They have a guy who's worth millions and has proven to garner attention, but he's complex and if one part outweighs the other it's off putting.

    Not sure why people on the internet were saying his English was pretty good. It is all things considered, but to someone who doesn't know that struggle or only speaks English it's very low level. Pretty sure you're not the only one, and it's understandable why you probably wouldn't like it. Love Shinsuke, and hearing the effort to say something like "Turning your house into a playground" is not my thing. With a champion who is going to cut the same promo every week in his language. For his people. I'd prefer they start pushing him heavier on the guy who'll decapitate you with a knee rather than silly Japanese man loves rock n roll. I won't complain too much, but build and promo is something that makes his matches great and even classics. They really haven't mishandled him, but they're kind of treading closer to that line. Smackdown fell off hardcore when they literally just lost Miz and Ambrose. Hopefully post money in the bank we see things like this become less of an issue. Especially with the briefcase, orton rematch, new day and rusev returns.
     
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  3. ShinChan

    ShinChan Gone. For. Good.

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    Doesn't make me cringe. He does need to improve. But he isn't anywhere near being cringe worthy. Maybe because my first language isn't English, I can sort of relate with him.

    Still, I think that his charisma and wrestling makes up for it. If he feuds with Kevin Owens, I don't know what will happen.

    To each their own, I guess.
     
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  4. dalenichol

    dalenichol Dark Match Jobber

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    The thing is, his English, when he's not in a WWE ring, is actually quite good. I know it's been alluded to in this thread, but if you check out his interviews with the Gorilla Position youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s55sHSfD1Y or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWvuX3cNX6w&t=107s, or even his Jericho podcast, he seems fairly comfortable.

    It's almost like he accentuates his broken English as part of his character, either that or he's not comfortable remembering (or WWE aren't comfortable) a script and that makes things more difficult for him.
     
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  5. Navi

    Navi With the safety off!!

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    A friend of mine works for the US Navy linguistics department and she told me languages are rated on a scale of 1-5. Number 1 being the easiest and 5 being the hardest to learn. Very few languages are rated a 5, English is one of them.

    For someone like Nakamura who spoke Japanese almost his entire life his English is passable. I've heard him on other shows, podcasts and whatnot and he comes off a lot better. It's almost like someone else said, his broken English is part of creative's way to sell the character. I think personally it's a mistake and they should let him speak the way he does off camera. He will never speak without some sort of accent, and we as viewers shouldn't expect that to happen.

    Cesero got the same label because people said his English wasn't good enough to do promo's, even though the guy speaks 5 languages. Four more than I do. Drew McIntyre was also slammed a bit by the IWC because of his Scottish accent. I think people have to have a broader mindset when we watch the WWE now. This is a global company and gone are the days when wrestler's, usually born in the US, would put on accents to fit their characters. Now we actually have wrestlers from other area's of the world, and no they might not speak perfect English, but hell everyone makes mistakes at times. What Nakamura brings in the ring outweighs any broken English promo he delivers.
     
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  6. shooter_mcgavin

    shooter_mcgavin Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    I think his English is fine for someone whose first language isn't English. I have spoken with a lot of people who aren't native English speakers in English but know how to speak it and I think Nakamura is on par with most.

    Maybe it's possible it's the scripted promos more than his actual English skills.

    Remember the WWE is a company that represents the "World", hence the first W in WWE, so there are going to be just as much fans that have the same comprehension of English than Nakamura.

    I do feel that most Wrestling Fans in the US. If you're English isn't American or UK English then it's not good English. But they have to realize there's more people like Nakamura out there than there is John Cena in terms of English comprehension and same goes for the fans.
     
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  7. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    As others have mentioned, English isn't his first language but I wouldn't worry about it because Nakamura is someone that's not gonna rely on a lot of promo work in the first place. I've heard Nakaura speak better a few times in NXT, so I'm thinking that possible that he exaggerates his broken English, as has also been mentioned.

    Nakamura's personality, character and charisma have always been displayed more through his various mannerisms, body language and facial expressions rather than promo work. From what I understand, mic work doesn't have remotely the same emphasis in Japanese wrestling as it does in America, so I was never surprised that Nakamura on the mic isn't exactly epic but, then again, it doesn't really have to be. We're almost certainly never going to see Nakamura cut a 15 to 20 minute promo session and that's a good thing. Due in no small part to Triple H's growing influence, WWE is slowly coming around to the fact that if it indeed wants to expand into other countries, especially countries where English isn't the first language, then more aspects of that countries pro wrestling scene are going to have to be incorporated, sometimes more heavily so, into the product.
     
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  8. The Perfect Max

    The Perfect Max I Am Jericho

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    The fact that he can speak some English is definitely a good thing. If I remember correctly, when they brought in the original Sin Cara, he didn't know any English, so it's definitely an improvement.

    I think it would be hypocritical to say that he doesn't need to improve on the mic, especially when so many of us cringe at stars that can speak English perfectly fine, but they just suck at promos. But equally, some guys need to speak more than others. Shinsuke Nakamura is not one of those guys. I do genuinely believe that less is more when it comes to his verbal promos, because I think one thing about him that is so entertaining is the enigmatic presence he has. He has so much charisma and is an absolute gem in the ring, so let that be it. Some guys don't talk for a reason, and in this case, it should be because he doesn't need to. Small sound bites are definitely needed but leave the long winded stuff for those more significant occasions.

    Having said all of that, I don't dislike the way he speaks. I don't find it cringey, I consider it part of who Nakamura is. The same cannot be said for other guys who desperately need to improve (Finn Bálor comes to mind unfortunately), but for now, it works with Shinsuke.
     
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  9. LoudClearVoice

    LoudClearVoice Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    I don't think his English is horrible. It's good enough to have top feuds I think. Nakamura doesn't have to be good on the mic, just decent enough to be able to do some promos for big fights. His presence, character, and in ring skills is what he's selling.

    I think Asuka's English is far worse than his and may be an issue for her moving forward when she gets to the main roster.
     
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  10. shooter_mcgavin

    shooter_mcgavin Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Asuka's English I think is actually pretty good better than Nakamura's. I don't think she will have any promo problems.
     
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  11. Kodo Sawaki

    Kodo Sawaki Championship Contender

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    Cringy no. But yes, not very good. Fortunately for him that is not his selling point. His entrance is gold and his in ring work is great. So he got over on that. But yeah, in promo department he is very lacking. And I dont have too much sympathy for that because his English should be better. If all us Europeans speak it even if our languages have nothing to do with English, he should not be exception. Maybe Japanese(like some French guys) have a natural hatred toward English or just have want to honor their own culture and refuse to learn it or speak it. But if he wants to be in company that resides in US and with English as native language, there is not much excuse for that. And wouldnt mind Japanese accent as much as I dont mind Becky with her silly accent.
     
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  12. blueskyy

    blueskyy Getting Noticed By Management

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    C'mon, if you can't speak good English, you'd never be in top feuds. Because you can't sell a product. What good is a salesman who can't speak. Initially, I thought it was all part of the act, but now that you guys say that that is actually him, I think it would be really hard for him to survive in WWE.
     
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  13. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    This shows the bullshit on how one of the arguments people have against Roman Reigns is that he is no good on the mike, and how the talkers of the business are the real stars. Yet Shinsuke can't put two coherent words together, but because he has a cool entrance......

    Shinsuke is being overrated, and he has only been on the main roster for a few weeks. He is being shoved down our throats more than Roman was when he debuted.

    But, many of the fickle wrestling fans like flippity-flippers who have cool entrances and music, who come from NXT and who aren't muscle-bound, rather than guys who Vince rates, because he rates them, and you can't allow yourself to agree with Vinnie Mac.

    When Shinsuke struggles to get out words while pulling a face like he is taking a dump, you all pat him on the head and say "He is trying.....and he has a cool entrance". But when Roman Reigns fails to cut promos like the Rock, you all shit on him. Good that you judge everyone by the same measure.
     
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  14. Stone Cold Tea

    Stone Cold Tea Getting Noticed By Management

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    The guy who has had one match? You mean the guy who hasn't even been on SmackDown every week since his debut? The guy who's entrance didn't even make the broadcast last night? If you considering that threat shoving I worry for your gag reflex.

    I enjoy him. Not everyone needs to speak perfect English. He has a certain charisma about him that you just can't teach. He'll be fine.
     
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  15. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    I have heard many talk on here incessantly about Nakamura, how great he was as NXT Champion, how great he was in Japan. 2K even had a special NXT edition of the WWE2K17 game where you can get autographed copies of the game by Shinsuke Nakamura.

    Hey, I enjoy Nakamura too. He does have a cool entrance, I liked his match with Ziggler at Backlash, and his entrance would look especially awesome at Wrestlemania. He would be a good U.S. or IC Champion.

    My problem is Nakamura, but the fans' hypocrisy of what they level as bad things about Roman Reigns don't seem to be levelled at Nakamura just as much.

    If Nakamura was all over SD Live, people wouldn't bitch here about it like they do Roman on RAW, because more Nakamura means more cool entrance. You would only turn on Nakamura if it was reported that Vince sees him as "the guy", then you will all turn on him, because you can't like Vince's endorsed guy, just like the lot of you couldn't get behind Cena or Roman.

    If fans just admitted that they don't like guys on top who aren't indy darlings or flip-flop guys, then maybe I wouldn't have to point out how fans are inconsistent in their arguments of why they don't get behind one person, while ignoring similar flaws in another.
     
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  16. Navi

    Navi With the safety off!!

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    As has been pointed out he's had one match since he debuted on the main roster. Can you please tell us how that is shoving someone down our throats? Nakamura doesn't do flippy stuff either, he is a straight up wrestler, so don't know where that is coming from.

    And please explain why we always have to agree with Vince? In your eyes anyone who doesn't agree with Vince is a crap wrestling fan. I say that because you bring it up constantly. Can you not understand for one minute that people are different and might not like the guy that Vince decide's should be on top?

    When it comes to Reigns English is his first language and since you bring up the Rock, of course he is going to be compared to him. When the Rock shows up at the Rumble to try and help get Reigns over, what do you expect. You almost act like it's the fans fault that Reigns can cut a promo to save his life, when in fact it's his fault. Reigns has been on the roster for 5 years now, in among some of the promo artists in Jericho, Rollins, Heyman and Owens. It's really not the fans problem that he just isn't in their league.
     
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  17. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    I don't always agree with Vince, but I back a billionaire who is running the most successful wrestling company on earth to know what he is doing, over some fans who sit on the computer all day and tell him how to do it better.

    His bank account probably is why I back his decision making. WWE would be dead today if Vince got it wrong all the time.

    Also, it didn't seem to bother any of you when Roman was in NXT, or in the Shield. The time you people started commenting on his poor in-ring and promo skills was around the time that Vince started pushing Roman to the moon. Just like when fans turned on Cena, who they used to cheer as the "Doctor Of Thuganomics" but started booing when he started main-eventing. Coincidence?

    You cheer Nakamura now because he is "flavour of the month", he is the fans' "new toy", until they get tired of him, and want the next sensation from NXT to come up.

    Why even care what Roman's mike skills are like, if you are happy to accept Nakamura with poor mike skills? But I had better not read any more guff about how you need to be a maestro on the mike to be over, as Nakamura disproves this.

    You ask me why I always agree with Vince? How come you always disagree with him?
     
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  18. ShinChan

    ShinChan Gone. For. Good.

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    Except that it isn't bullshit since he isn't good on the mic.

    Yeah, the real stars are good talkers.

    Really? I doubt that it's this bad.

    The entrance is cool, so?

    If someone says that he's the greatest ever then he's overrated. No one and I emphasize, No one is saying that.

    Shoving down throats is something else which Nakamura isn't being.

    Flippity-flippers? Or rather a style of wrestling you don't like?

    Roman Reigns has a cool music. Entrance was also cool, so?

    Liking someone from NXT is bad?

    It isn't about muscles. It's about talent.

    Difference of opinions or tastes? Is it bad?

    Why? Will I be fined for agreeing with Vince? Many people agree with him about various matters and disagree with him about some other matters.

    Are you sure that he's struggling? Yes? If yes, then convince me that he's actually struggling.

    Roman Reigns is going to main event 4th consecutive Wrestlemania. Nakamura just defeated Ziggler. Who needs better promos? Cut promos like Rock? Lol, no one is expecting that from Roman Reigns.

    Thanks.

    Because he's interesting.

    He was good indeed.

    Yes.

    Because people like him and want his autographs. No problem in it.

    Same Pinch.

    True.

    Agreed.

    Look fans are hypocrites. But not all. Just like people in real life. But why are you generalizing like as if everyone who doesn't like Roman Reigns and likes Nakamura is a hypocrite? And how in the blue sky are Roman Reigns and Shinsuke Nakamura even comparable? Shinsuke is a wrestling veteran and one of the biggest NJPW stars. Roman Reigns is gradually coming up. But they aren't comparable by any measure.

    And how can you say so? How can you assume so? Any proof about it whatsoever?

    You really concentrate on Vince too much. I don't care what he likes or not. It's not like I'm in opposition of his government, right? People have varying opinions and choices.

    And those have some genuine reasons for it as well. Don't say that there aren't any genuine reasons?

    Hypocrites will never admit that they are wrong. Fans will.

    Aha. The same guys that wrestle in a style that doesn't interest you, right? They are flip-flops just because you don't like their style? Or rather the background of independent that they came from?

    By the way, Flip-flops are awesome. Nah, not the ones you referred. I mean actual flip-flops. Always love them.

    There are flaws in both Roman Reigns and Shinsuke Nakamura. However, everyone has flaws. I have plenty of flaws. Don't know about you though. Take another example. Cesaro isn't good on mic but I love him for his in-ring work. Roman Reigns isn't good on mic but I still like him. But Cesaro can afford to have mediocre mic skills but your face Roman Reigns can't.

    Good for ya.

    So you back billionaires only? Successful doesn't mean right.

    Damn, I don't like computer. That's why I never use it. Thanks for another generalization though. The status doesn't show who's right or wrong. A billionaire actor is a murderer here and hasn't got any repercussions. I haven't even started working but I'm better than at least him because I didn't do that crime. Money never tells who's right and wrong. Never.

    I can't agree with it.

    Who said that he gets it wrong all the time?

    Eh. Never seen him on NXT. Again generalization.

    Yeah, because he was protected and actually booked rightly?

    Yes, because someone on moon should be better than someone in a stable. Not to forget how Roman Reigns was a silent badass in Shield. Where's that guy?

    Or maybe they didn't like John Cena's gimmick? I don't like his gimmick. He's a good wrestler nonetheless.

    Maybe. Maybe not. God knows better.

    Or maybe he's actually good since people have seen his work.

    Toys are awesome for children.

    Or until they misuse him? Or until they push him too hard.

    Is it bad to want someone good to come from NXT?

    Again comparing apples and oranges. Who needs mic skills more? A guy who has just debuted or a guy who has already headlined 3 consecutive Wrestlemanias? Something Stone Cold Steve Austin couldn't do.

    We'll see when Nakamura gets shoved to throats like Roman Reigns, okay?

    Nah. Maybe your opinions and tastes are similar.

    Eh. Again generalization. I wouldn't be watching WWE if I always disagreed with Vince.
     
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  19. Navi

    Navi With the safety off!!

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    I don't always disagree with McMahon either, and yes he does get a lot right, but as a fan when he pushes someone I don't particularly care for and it's a 3 year push, then I will say something. No one else that I can remember in all the year's I've watched wrestling has received the kind of push and rubs that Roman Reigns has received. All you have to do is read comments and listen to the boo's too tell you that. People are sick of Reigns now and the boo's will eventually stop and then the WWE will have a top babyface that gets no reaction at all. As a matter of fact I read awhile ago that Vince had given up on Reigns, it was HHH who wanted to continue the push so who knows.

    When Reigns was in NXT no one really knew who he was, the brand was new and it wasn't watched like it is now, so I didn't watch him much. As for the Shield, yes he was over because the Shield was over as a group. Rollins, Ambrose and Reigns were the most over faction on the roster, if you remember correctly we didn't hear much from Reigns at all. Ambrose and Rollins did most of the mic work Reigns was the silent badass who used to come in and finish matches. It wasn't until he struck out on his own that we found out why he was so silent when he was in the Shield, his shortcomings were on display for everyone to see.

    Again Cena was over long before people started booing him. They only started booing him when his gimmick became stale but they respect the hell out of the guy for his work ethic, wrestling skills and charity work. No one else on the roster puts the hours in that he does and he carried the WWE on his back for most of the last decade. Besides Cena knows how to work a hostile crowd in a way that most other wrestlers don't.

    I cheer Nakamura for one reason and one reason only, the guy is great in the ring. His match will Sami Zayn while both were still in NXT was one I won't forget in a hurry. He has spent years honing his skills and it shows. His entrance is cool, but the best part of Nakamura comes out when he's kicking the crap out of someone. He might not be as cut as some of the others, but the guy can go in the ring.

    Listen I don't give a damm about Reigns and his mic skills, they are not there and he's had enough time to get it right. He will always have his fans and his detractors like every wrestler does. Nakamura will have his fans and people that don't care for him much as well. That's the way wrestling works, we like some and we don't like others. It doesn't mean that any of us are wrong, it's just different tastes and that's something you have to get used too.
     
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  20. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    If you want Reigns to be the silent assassin, fair enough. Maybe he should have a mouthpiece, like Lesnar has Paul Heyman. But if he doesn't speak on the mike, and is more like the "Shield" version of Roman Reigns, then the argument that a wrestler has to be great on the mike to be over (except Kane circa-1997-2000, Mortician Undertaker, Chris Benoit, Bret Hart and even Brock Lesnar, who were all stars and all popular despite not cutting world class promos, so stick work making one popular applies to who you choose to apply it to) will be shown as a fallacy.

    So many are critical of Roman on the mike. Okay, so have him be the top guy, and have his opponent do the heavy lifting, and Reigns spear him after the speech. Will that make you all love Roman then, or does he have to do more?
     
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  21. johnnybbad78

    johnnybbad78 Dark Match Jobber

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    I completely agree. If I've learned nothing from reading forums it's that as long as he's a likeable character, most people will let stuff slide. If he was a terrible performer, you can bet there would be a thread about how crappy he is on the mic. He's terrible, and it is cringeworthy. I had never really heard him talk and the first time I did on Smackdown my first thought was, I'm supposed to take him seriously? He needs someone to speak for him...unfortunately that doesn't often work for faces....time will tell.
     
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  22. ShinChan

    ShinChan Gone. For. Good.

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    A wrestler doesn't have to be great on the mic to be over. I don't agree with that. There are lots of wrestlers over without great mic work. But those wrestlers don't have the tough task of following John Cena to become "The Guy". The names you mentioned had something special. Kane & The Undertaker for gimmick, Chris Benoit & Bret Hart for in-ring skills and Brock Lesnar had Paul Heyman to protect him on the mic. Roman Reigns has none of these.

    Just remember the last time people were supporting Roman Reigns and cheering him in a huge way? I'll help you. It was when Roman Reigns lost his cool and beat the hell outta Triple H and Sheamus. That's the Roman Reigns that could be great. That's the Roman Reigns that'll make me love him. Not being an underdog against Triple H. So, most of the people have more problems with his booking than the wrestler himself.
     
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  23. Navi

    Navi With the safety off!!

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    No actually I don't want him to do anything to be quite honest. I used to be one of the biggest Shield marks here on the forum. No one was more upset when they broke up as I was. Out of the three of them I would consider myself more of a Dean Ambrose fan than the other two. There is nothing wrong with not being a fan of someone as long as you speak the truth about them.

    Anyway to your other point if mic work. No a wrestler doesn't have to be the next Cena, Miz, Wyatt, Rollins, HHH or any of those guys to get over. But he does have to be consistent and passable. That is my biggest issue with someone like Reigns. First he was fed those stupid Looney Tunes lines, then he was "The Guy" now he's morphed into "The Big Dog". There is no consistency with his character, I don't even know what his character is anymore. Nakamura is the "King of Strong Style", he doesn't really have to talk, his ring work says more than he ever could on the mic.
     
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  24. shooter_mcgavin

    shooter_mcgavin Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Leave it to d_henderson1810 to completely derail the topic and talk about his boy toy Roman Reigns and bash on some of the hardcore wrestling fans favorites.

    Why do we have to compare Nakamura ro Reigns anyways. Nakamura's English isn't one of the best fair enough but at least he's not saying some of the ridiculous things on the mic.

    Also as we've established already Reigns has other problems beyond his promo skills, which can be decent at times.

    As for Nakamura being the "flavor of the month" yeah that's some long month ... Since it's been 13 already
     
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  25. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Firstly, I am not a great fan of Roman Reigns either. I don't get too excited when I hear that he is having a one-on-one match with someone (as I think he is poor in the ring). But I don't have a meltdown that they push him to the top. I believe in giving someone a chance first, to see if they can prove you wrong. Also, the nasty, over-the-top comments made about him here make me want to back him, as I don't like seeing anyone get such nasty treatment. You didn't even give him a chance to shine at the top, and turned on him the moment word got around that he was Vince's "boy", like when everyone discovered that John Cena was Vince's "boy" as well.

    Personally, I would have pushed Dean Ambrose out of the three of them, and then Seth Rollins. Reigns is more of a bodyguard, "silent hitman" to me.

    I also like consistency. Sure, don't like Reigns, but don't use criticisms of him that you excuse in others that you do like. Either it is a problem to not be good on the mike, or it isn't.

    You back guys Vince will never push, because you think you know better. You people wouldn't make these criticisms of Roman if he was a midcarder, and only got as far as the IC or U.S. Title. But the fact that Vince loves him means that you automatically hate him.

    Here's a test. Name me one guy, ONE SUPERSTAR, who Vince has been high on, and then the fans have got behind, and endorsed as the top guy. It hasn't happened since Hulk Hogan. Even "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, you people say that you fell in love with him first, and then Vince "listened to you" (because the almighty fan knows more than some graying, rich old man who has run a multi-million dollar wrestling company for 35 years).

    Hey, I could grow to like Nakamura. He has potential. What I mean by "flavor of the month" is, that you will like him, until some new guy comes up from NXT, and then he will be the new "crowd favourite".
     
    #25

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