Second Round: Los Angeles - Randy Orton vs. Steve Austin

Discussion in 'The Mexico City Region' started by klunderbunker, Apr 29, 2010.

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Who Wins This Matchup?

  1. Randy Orton

  2. Steve Austin

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    This is a second round matchup in the Los Angeles Subregion. The ring and arena are universal throughout the first round and the organization is not a factor. There is a 20 minute time limit. Vote using any criteria you like. Most votes in the poll at the end of the time period wins. In the case of a tie we will go off of the number of written votes. In the case of a second tie, both are eliminated. Assume one week has passed since the first match.

    Location: Staples Center, Los Angeles, California.

    [​IMG]

    Randy Orton

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    Vs.

    Steve Austin

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    Voting is open for 4 days.
     
    #1
  2. Ferbian

    Ferbian Has Returned.

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    While I have an immense love for Randy Orton, and I think this is a dream match come true, and would've loved to see it happen later on in the tournament, so that Randy or Stone Cold wouldn't have to go out so early.

    I'm voting for Stone Cold in this one although, while Randy has a lot of potential, and in my opinion is in his prime right now, and will continue to be for quite a while, Stone Cold is pretty much gonna stump a mud hole in Randy and walk it dry.

    Stone Cold while he might not be the superior wrestler, he has dominated and won over pretty much anybody that has been thrown against him, the likes of Triple H, Mick Foley, The Rock, Shawn Michaels, Jake Roberts, The Undertaker and Kane and many more.

    Stone Cold has always been dominant, he's always been a tough son of a gun, and will be in this match also, it's gonna take a lot for Randy Orton to put Stone Cold down, and I have my doubts he's gonna be able to, both have the same kind of finisher, but somehow I think Stone Cold is gonna be able to pop his first.

    From a more business wise view, it's also pretty clear, Randy while he's done a lot in the business, he's never been the guy that Stone Cold was, he's the older John Cena, the later Hulk Hogan, without the ability to rise up, do 5 moves and win.
    Stone Cold saved the WWE, something I have my doubts Randy would've been able to do, and Stone cold will, and always have been so much more over than Randy, he's a hall of famer, true Randy will be also, but Stone Cold has contributed to this business in so many ways that it's impossible to find any way to put him below Randy Orton, unless we're hoping for a lucky match for Randy, which I think Stone Cold is too instinctive to be suckered into.

    To put it simple.. STONE COLD.. STONE COLD.. STONE COLD!!!
     
    #2
  3. FunKay the Inevitable

    FunKay the Inevitable People Like Me, We Don't Play

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    I really wanted to come on here and vote for Orton, I really did. I was thinking about it and how I could claim he's the Legend Killer etc... but Austin deserves to win this. It's not even like I can apply a logical situation to this (Like I did with Yoko vs. Austin). Orton really is one tough competitor, having gone through amtches like his No Holds Barred match with Mick Foley or his series with the Undertaker or even his series' with John Cena and Triple H but Stone Cold Steve Austin can match him in not only this but in every other way and exceed him as well. Austin has put on matches with some of the greatest like The Rock, Triple H, The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels and Kurt Angle and he's beaten every single one of them. Austin by all logic should win here but I won't deter you from voting Orton (after all, Jericho's down the line for one of these two;)).
     
    #3
  4. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    I'm expecting some people to vote Austin over Orton simply because Orton didn't deserve to go over Funk. I'm not one of those people. I'm going to compare Orton and Austin in their prime.

    I consider Orton's prime to be from 2005-present. He has beaten Cena, HHH, Undertaker, and HBK so I will give him that. Let's look at these wins closely.

    vs. Cena: Beat him and HHH at WM 24. Defeated him at Summerslam 2009 amid controversy and defeated him again at Hell in a Cell.

    vs. HHH: Defeated him at No Mercy 2007 in a Last Man Standing match after HHH had already wrestled twice. Beat him again at The Bash in 2009 with help from Rhodes and DiBiase

    vs. HBK: Beat him at Judgment Day in 2007 after attacking him in an interview earlier in the PPV and again at Survivor Series 2007 when the stipulation was that HBK couldn't use SCM.

    vs. Undertaker: Beat him at Summerslam 2005 with help from his father and again at No Mercy 2005 in a 2-1 handicap casket match.

    I'm not trying to discredit Orton's wins over the top superstars because they were won with help or anything. The point I'm going to make is that when Orton fought these wrestlers for the first time, here is what happened.

    HHH: Lost the WHC title to him at Unforgiven in 2004

    Cena: Lost to him at Summerslam in 2007

    HBK: Beat him at Unforgiven in 2003. However Michaels won the match, but Flair put Orton's feet on the ropes after the bell rung causing the match to continue.

    Undertaker: Lost to him at Wrestlemania 21

    Randy Orton has not beaten any of the top superstars during his era the first time he has faced them. If you want to throw Mysterio in the mix, he did beat him at No Way Out in 2006 but lost at WM 22 and the Smackdown after that I believe. He lost to Kurt Angle the first time they met at One Night Stand in 2006 and Edge at Vengeance in 2004. You can argue that Austin is bigger and better than any of the above names I've mentioned, thus Orton will lose this match because it will have been the first time they have met.

    I remember last year's tournament match of Austin vs. Edge quite well. An argument that was brought up was that Vince would have done anything in his power to make sure Stone Cold would lose. Let's apply that same argument to this matchup.

    Vince, the character, hates Austin more than anybody on the planet. However, he doesn't think too fondly of Orton after punting him, his son Shane, and RKO'ing his daughter Stephanie. We saw Vince, the person, say that Stone Cold is the greatest wrestler this business has seen. Honestly I think Vince will stay out of this matchup because he hates both wrestlers to some degree.

    In terms of outside interference, Rhodes and DiBiase have helped Orton in the past but we've seen how they cost Orton matches then turned on him. It's not a guarantee that they will help Orton out. I bet a little part of them respects Funk because of what they were told by their fathers and would want to see Austin win because of it.

    All in all, I think this will be a great match. Orton is cold and calculating but Austin can become that when he so chooses. Randy will put up a valiant effort, but Orton will fall to the Stunner and Stone Cold will come out victorious.
     
    #4
  5. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    This is Steve Austin by so much of a margin that it's not even close to funny.

    Orton is Austin-Lite. He tries to be this badass that goes around hitting his finisher on people and not caring at all. Orton is the guy they're trying to make into the second coming of Austin. Austin on the other hand WAS the badass that hit everyone with Stunners and won world titles. Austin held the company on his back and carried it through the dark ages. It was Austin that made millions and millions of dollars for them. Orton has a finisher and the look. Austin had the whole thing.

    Austin in a total landslide.
     
    #5
  6. 8thwotwATG

    8thwotwATG The Big Boss

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    In terms of contributions to the business, yeah Austin goes over ridiculosly here. Kayfabe wise, this probably turns out to be a helluva show for the fans, with both guys hammering each other through out the match. However, when all is said and done, Orton attempts an RKO, but Austin sees it coming and pushes him off into the ropes. When Orton comes back towards Austin, he's caught with a kick to the guts, and is nailed with a stunner to end the match.




    Vote Austin.
     
    #6
  7. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    Terry Funk would have given Austin a much better fight than Orton will. That's why I didn't like Orton over Funk. But alas, here we are, an Austin's winning in a landslide.

    But I chose Orton by using this logic... if Orton can beat Terry Funk, a better wrestler than Stone Cold, IMO, then Orton can beat Austin. You guys want to use silly ass reasons for voting for someone, I'll use mine here.

    I chose Orton.
     
    #7
    TheOneBigWill likes this.
  8. TheOneBigWill

    TheOneBigWill [This Space for Rent]

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    I'm voting for Randy Orton because I can't stand the love Steve Austin gets. I won't discredit Austin, like I'll always do Hogan, but the fact of the matter is Steve Austin isn't the great unbeatable that people try to make him out to be.

    In his prime he was booked to go over the others because simply put he brought in the most profit. But through pure wrestling terms he couldn't defeat half of those guys before he was selling tons of crap.

    Bret Hart: Austin, to my knowledge, doesn't even hold one victory over him. Not pinfall/submission wise, anyways. This was right at the true beginning of everyone fawning over Austin as well.

    The Undertaker: It seems to me that Austin only got the upper hand in this match-up once he started producing money for the company. When they met throughout 1996, Austin was still using the same moves he used as a mega star. And he couldn't dent Taker. Suddenly, as a mega star Austin hits a stunner that in 1996 didn't even keep Taker down for 2 seconds, let alone 3. I don't buy that Austin beat him with talent - so much more with profit.

    The only true top name that Steve Austin ever truly beat through in-ring work, in my opinion, was The Rock. Now - again, I'm sure someone can prove this wrong with videos, or simply doing their homework. And my loathing of Austin certainly isn't withstanding.

    Now, on the flip side. (through a non-profit point of view since Orton hasn't sold a fraction, I'm sure, of what Austin has.) Orton has been a heel through most of his career. Yes, he defeated names like Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker through underhanded tactics, but thats what he did to win. He didn't use weapons, he used the simple dirty tactics that are still available to him here. (well, minus Daddy, DiBiase and Rhodes, and special stips, I'm sure.)

    Orton rose to the top a hell of a lot quicker than Steve Austin. During a time when arguably a lot more big names were standing in his way. To me, thats impressive. He was shit as a face, but as a heel he was dominating and ruthless. He constantly found ways to win matches against the top names people never would've expected him to defeat. Cena, Taker, HHH, HBK.

    Through trying to watch this match play out it could end in one of three ways.

    1. Stunner attempt, Orton shoves him off and connects with an RKO. (similar to Orton winning against Benoit at Summerslam 04 - without cheating, yet in a shocking I can't believe that just happened fashion.)

    2. RKO attempt, Austin shoves him off and hits a Stunner. (whenever you turn your back to Austin, he does have an uncanny ability to shove away then hit his finish.)

    3. Orton/Austin Double DQ finish. Austin has had a few of these moments in his career, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this match ended that was as well.
     
    #8
  9. JGlass

    JGlass Unregistered User

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    Sour grapes? That's too bad, because while I can understand not liking aspects of Stone Cold's wrestling ability, he's probably one of the greatest to ever climb in the squared circle.


    Welcome to the Wrestling industry. Rule number 1: Push the guys that make you the most money. Examples include: Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, John Cena, and many many more!

    I don't think the fawning really began until their Wrestlemania match where Austin refused to tap. That's when he went from star to superstar.

    Right after his feud with Bret Hart he feuded with Taker, and he would have won but he lost after interference. True, he had victories over Taker later in his career as well, but they were all impressive wins.

    You could argue that HHH was a top guy, or at least on his way. Undertaker was also a top guy that he beat. He also scored wins over Jericho and Angle, who if not top guys, were the next best thing.

    Well Austin has beaten names like Shawn Michaels and Taker without using heel tactics. Now I know I know... different strokes for different folks, but assuming Orton doesn't have the help of Cowboy Bob, Legacy, or whoever else would come to his aid, I'd tip the scale in Stone Cold's favor.

    How much of this rise to the top was due to him being a third generation superstar? Austin's rise was arguably much more impressive. Orton never had something as infectious as Austin 3:16, or ever had a match that showed is guts as much as Stone Cold vs. Bret Hart at WM13.

    Austin is better than Orton in every imaginable way. I could see this feud playing out with Orton doing his whole Legend Killer thing, threatening to kill the legend of Stone Cold, but Stone Cold would be the man to finally slay the Legend Killer. Stone Cold wins.
     
    #9
  10. Hulkamaniac

    Hulkamaniac Vote Hogan, Savage, Rocky and Thesz

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    Another nonsensical argument, and I am far from an Austin fan.

    OK, but he's still better then Randy Orton, so I'm not sure what you're contrarian opinion on Steve Austin has to do with this actual match up. That's a commentary on Austin's career, not on the match up.

    What a load of crap argument. You mix and match kayfabe and real world as it suits your argument. Kayfabe he wasn't talented enough to beat anyone until he real world started selling merchandise. Here's a clue: The reason the other people were put over him was because they were perceived as bigger draws. When Austin proved himself the bigger draw, he started going over. That's how wrestling works for everyone, not just Steve Austin.

    OK, so you're dealing with kayfabe again, but what does Bret Hart beating him have to do with Orton? They wrestle completely different styles.

    And now you're arguing real world again, so you're doing exactly what I said a few paragraphs ago. Undertaker was "only beating Austin because he was making the company more profit", so the argument works both ways. That's how the wrestling decisions are made.

    Ok....thanks?

    OK, so we're back kayfabe again...shocker.

    So, are we arguing kayfabe or real world now? You'll excuse me if I'm not able to keep it straight with you. Yes, Randy Orton "made it to the top faster", but that was only because of his looks and his legacy status, not because of his talent.

    This should be good.

    If the RKO kept him down. Austin was much more resilient a character in-ring, kicking out of finishers all the time.

    The likely scenario.

    Ummm...ok? Do you have evidence to back this up as one of three scenarios, or was this just a generic point of "Either Wrestler A wins with his finisher, Wrestler B wins with his finisher, or nobody wins"?

    Basically, you make these large, overarching comments on Steve's career, then mix and match kayfabe and real world arguments as they suit your argument, and never really give any of your analysis on why Orton would win the match up.

    Steve Austin wins this match up, very easily as a matter of fact. Orton just isn't on his level at this point. Maybe by the end of his career he'll belong in this discussion, but in this match up in 2010, Orton loses. Steve Austin was one of the most resilient superstars ever, while Orton has shown a tendency to wilt under pressure, and that's one thing Steve Austin offered in-ring: down and dirty pressure. Vote Austin.
     
    #10
  11. Via Armbar

    Via Armbar Has a pretty good dick.

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    I understand what you're saying, but even through this statement you're setting yourself up for trying defend someone not because you want to see them advance so much as you loathe their opponent. To me at least, arguments like this are the easiest to break down.

    Is this not true of almost any rookie that isn't named Brock Lesnar or The Undertaker? We aren't going to argue that there have been countless matches where a future legend jobbed to someone who would never go on to do anything of importance. Most recently we have seen this in Jack Swagger. Altough he obviously isn't any where near legendary status, he has finally made it to the main event just months after jobbing to Santino Marella. It's not like you would have a midcard Shawn Michaels going over a main event Hulk Hogan in the early nineties. You wouldn't have a green Rocky Maivia go over an unstoppable Undertaker? Using the first half of a wrestlers career isn't always the best measuring stick when comparing him to another wrestler.

    Austin was on the verge of breaking out. He had a stay in the midcard and something was seen in him that warranted a step up. They had him go further with Hart than anyone expected. Many people consider this match to be in the top ten matches of all time. A rare example when a loss does more good for a man than a win does. You can also use IYH as an example. That match had Austin looking like a winner until a dq from Bulldog. So like I said, using the matches he had against a megastar like Hart before he had fully come into his own. Orton lost a couple matches in the beginning of his WWE career that are fare more embarrasing than a loss to Hart.


    And Orton only had merchandise when they made him relevant. He didn't have any tshirts are dog tags for sale when he was still wrestling on Velocity. I seriously do not understand what the selling of merchandise has to do with anything. If we were talking about merchandise as a part of overall impact as the business than I would understand. We aren't however and even if we were, somebody who vocally isn't a supporter of Austin would admit he has had a far bigger impact. Again, I will state that there have been plenty of cases where a midcard talent loses to a main event wrestler and avenges the loss later in the career. You could chalk it up to experience moreso than merch sales.

    Even you know this statemet can easily be dismissed so I'll pass. I will say that of the big names that Austin has beaten, he has loss to them as well. The same can be said of Orton however when it comes to the likes of Cena and Taker. So it would could down to who has beat bigger names, and I would say that The Rock, Undertaker and Triple H are bigger than Cena. I'm aware that Orton has beaten both Triple H and Taker, but Austin has defeated them more times.

    Austin has done the same though so I'm not sure of the point here. He would use similar tactics: using the title as a weapon, undressing the turnbuckles, referee distraction. It's all in how you play the game. Weapons are only illegal if you get caught and Austin is no idiot. The man is incredibly ring aware and knows his placement within it. You can look at his former finisher The Stun Gun for an example here. He needed to know he was an where the opponent would be. He has shown me nothing to believe that if he were to use a weapon he would be caught. If we are talking primes here, Austin wouldn't need to use a weapon at all. You are comparing Orton with a heel Austin when the truth of the matter is he was at his peak as a face. Orton has a great record of taking out legends like Undertaker, but only when it wasn't the most important match in the feud. He would win either before or after the most important matches, but when it came down to the one that really mattered, he would lose. I see the same here.

    What would be the top? The slumping ratings he had during his first WWE title run? Are we going to get into whether or not the title means more now than it did back than or vice versa? In my opinion, the title was still more meaningful when Austin held it than it was when Orton held it. Orton also didn't have Cena to deal with as he was out on injury. Austin had Undertaker, Kane, a rising Triple H, a new face in Big Show and Mick Foley. On Raw at the time, Orton had a returning Jericho. Pretty big discrepancy there between competition. You can't tell me that Orton was an underdog in matches against guys like Trips or Michaels or even Taker. His damn nickname was The Legend Killer. It was his gimmick to defeat guys like that. Hardly an underdog at all. So he had plenty of expectations when it came to matches against those names.

    I agree on those possible outcomes. When it comes down to the wire though, I see Austin outsmarting Orton and hitting the Stunner for the win. Orton is good and damn well on his way to something potentially awesome, but as of right now anything he has done, Austin has done better.
     
    #11
  12. TheOneBigWill

    TheOneBigWill [This Space for Rent]

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    Proof of a possible Double DQ? Sure. Its not the full match, because the full match isn't needed. Just the end result of both men being DQ'd because they couldn't properly put away the other.

    [youtube]Ei5a_2RL10w&feature=related[/youtube]

    Also, youtube doesn't have video of it, but Steve Austin and Mankind, as well as Steve Austin and Vader have both fought to draws, or Double DQ's because of the aggression.

    Now then, for the purpose of saying this again because apparently some people didn't get that I mainly voted - not because I was so sure Orton could win - but instead because I'm confidently sure I don't want Austin to.

    Oh, but Will you can't do that. Wah, wah, wah. Go find a pillow and a diary and write a chapter of how I destroyed your life.

    Randy Orton has the skills and ability to defeat Steve Austin. Does this mean he will? Meh, people can say yes, people can say no. I don't care enough of Orton to try and defend him though. I'm not an Orton fan.
     
    #12
  13. GenMe

    GenMe GenMe

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    My vote goes to Austin. Randy is awesome, but Austin had tons of talent. And I really think that Randy has a lot to learn. I'm pretty sure that in about two year we could see Randy getting the win in this match, but as of right now Randy is not in the same level as Stone Cold. So that's why Austin is getting my vote in this match.
     
    #13
  14. Big Nick Dudley

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    I mark out pretty hard for Orton, but Austin (along with Flair and Bret Hart) is one of my favorites of all time. He has, without question, had the better career. I don't think that's up for debate, so I won't go any further.

    In terms of kayfabe, this is a match I have always wanted to see. Austin in his prime (1993-1999) vs. Orton in his prime (right now). Orton is very aggressive and calculating. He runs at a bit of a slower pace than Austin, but with reasoning behind it. He's methodical.

    Austin, at least as Stone Cold, ran off of instinct. He was a brawler, but could bust out some technical wrestling when needed. His match with Bret Hart at Wrestlemania 13 would be the best way to describe it. He goes toe-to-toe, running on a lot of heart. Orton is different. Orton always has a plan, even as a face. He's always plotting. Austin..well, he wasn't great with strategy.

    I think it would be an amazingly hard fought battle, but Austin takes it. It would be a pretty back and forth match, lots of brawling. But also, lots of headlocks, chinlocks, you name it. I think this would be one of those matches where each guy goes for their finisher a few times, but comes up short. Or even each guy hits their finisher once, but doesn't have enough energy left to get the pin. Austin ducks out of an RKO, hits the 2nd Stunner. A big win for the Rattlesnake.

    Once again, it's hard for me to give just about anyone a vote over Austin this early in the tournament. He's done too much in this business to lose at this point, at least that's the case with me.
     
    #14
  15. dd23beatlesfan1

    dd23beatlesfan1 Getting Noticed By Management

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    Frankly I don't even see how anyone can consider this a close matchup at all.

    How Orton passed Funk is just beyond crazy. I've noticed the majority of the IWC has a hard on for Orton, so I guess that was probably the reason no offense.

    But that round is past, so here we are Orton versus arguably the biggest star ever, Steve Austin.

    I'll grant that Orton is a good wrestler and a good character, but I read someone say "while Austin might not have been as good a wrestler," to that I say BS. I'm so tired of reading on the internet about people shitting on Austin's wrestling ability and that he was nothing but a brawler. For the love of God, has anyone seen a Steve Austin match prior to 1998? I guess not. Austin couldn't wrestle? Watch his matches with Ricky Steamboat and Sting and Dustin Rhodes and Brian Pillman in WCW. Watch the 1996 Survivor Series matchup with Bret Hart, which was a pure technical classic. Watch his 1997 matches with Undertaker and Owen Hart and the British Bulldog. Heck, watch his 1996 matches with Savio Vega which were good matches. And then after 1998, watch his matches with Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, and Ric Flair. There was a reason that back in the 1990's, Steve Austin was considered one of the best technical wrestlers in America. Geez. Had to go on a rant there, sorry.

    Randy Orton's best match doesn't even compare with in-ring action to some of Steve Austin's 2nd tier matches. We're talking about a guy who employs the chin-lock every 5 minutes in a match. I like Orton but come on people. Orton a better in-ring wrestler than Steve Austin? Get real. Sorry, but come on.

    All of that aside, when you compare success, Orton has had a very successful career no doubt and his potential is endless. If we were comparing him to a mid-card legend of the past like say Jake Roberts or Razor Ramon or Mr. Perfect, etc., then yeah Orton has a good shot of winning, but we're talking about one of the three biggest stars in the modern era of pro wrestling, in Steve Austin. From money drawn, to crowds drawn, to merchandise sells, to pop-culture notoriety, to iconic status, Orton is nowhere near in Austin's league. No where close. Put it this way, Orton isn't even the top guy in the company like John Cena. John Cena couldn't lace Stone Cold's boots as far as pure stardom goes. So if Cena doesn't compare than Orton doesn't either.

    I like Randy Orton, but he's just outclassed here big time.


    Steve Austin should win this easily. This is the first matchup I've seen in the 2nd round where I didn't even have to think of my vote.
     
    #15
  16. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    Man, we should be in this thread right now debating Yokozuna vs Terry Funk, not Austin vs Orton. Such chalk. Disappointing. Ah well.

    It's the Viper vs the Rattlesnake. Not sure which reptile wins in the wild, but I voted for Austin here. Call it veteran presence. Call it unbridled intensity. I don't know, but Austin has Orton's number at this point in career comparisons. In 5 years, Orton may well trump Austin in a format like this, but for now, I have to go with the Rattlesnake.
     
    #16
  17. pun2003hh

    pun2003hh BUILDING KICK!!! EXPLOSIONS!!!

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    Hey Snitches, I'm back!

    After a poorly timed banning because of spam, I am back and kinda pissed that I missed the second half of the first round. But now I know, if you are going to say that someone's post is funny, you better explain why it's funny! ;-)

    Anyway, to the topic at hand, this is one of the matches that I was looking forward too, but at this point, I thought it would have been much closer then it currently is. Randy Orton is possibly the most important star in the WWE today. While John Cena is the face of the company and Triple H and the Undertaker are your cornerstones, an argument can be made that it is Orton who holds the storylines together. Everything Orton has touched in the last few years has been gold. And in the ring, it is hard to find anyone else that is as physically damaging as Orton is.

    But as great as Orton is, I don't think he could go toe to toe with the Rattlesnake. Before Mr. O was punting people in the head and DDTing wives, Austin was breaking people's ankles in steel chairs, beating up a crippled Bret Hart and breaking into the home of Brian Pillman to continue an asswhipping.... despite the fact that Pillman was armed with a rifle.

    Bottom line is as vicious as Orton is, Austin is just that much more sadistic. I give Austin the edge here.
     
    #17
  18. DirtyJosé

    DirtyJosé Best angle of all: retirement

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    Kayfabe: Viper vs Rattlesnake. Austin is hardcore, doing things his way and giving stunners to those who are in his way. Orton is a calculating wrestler, taking his time to ensure he can deliver the most pain with as little effort. Austin wins in kayfabe because stunner has been put over has being able to topple buildings. EDGE: Austin.

    Performance: Austin all the way until WM 15 was golden. Austin in the the buildup to WM 17 upon his return was brilliant. Everything else is crap. Sorry, I gotta say it; having grown up a little, the effect of seeing him flip the bird and down the beer is a little childish. And beyond that, much of his career wasn't much beyond running to the ring and dropping stunners. He also started "What?!", a gimmick unleashed on wrestling that most everyone would love to take back and forget. Orton can't compete with Austin's mic and gimmick performance, but he can match him in the ring. Austin was a brawler, with little else besides mudhole stomping and a Lou Thesz press to go with the stunner and some punch/kick action. Orton I feel is much more entertaining in the ring. His moves are delivered with a style and a zeal that sell his gimmick to the moon. EDGE: Tie

    Personal: This is a tough one to call because I don't have as much stock in Austin's history as others do (not to say I don't like him). He accomplished much more than Orton has at this point, but slowly became a walking parody of himself that was part of the reason I walked away from this stuff in '01-'02. Orton, on the other hand, has been a reason why I picked this stuff up again. He plays a pitch perfect villian, and thus far I've been impressed with a tweener run. He connects with the crowd (without "What!?" or "That's the bottom line...") and gets great reactions. I'm going to vote Orton based on this, and also that he's behind a bit...
     
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  19. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    You criticize Austin's style and yet you praise Orton whose matches are stomps and headlocks and the occasional dropkick and DDT. Austin has had great matches upon great matches and I can count the great matches Orton has had on one hand and that was before he turned into The Viper. Austin sold his gimmick just as well as Orton if not better.
     
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  20. Via Armbar

    Via Armbar Has a pretty good dick.

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    Somebody a couple of posts back called Orton Austin-Light. That pretty much nails Orton's gimmick on the head. Sure it's a little altered for the times but they are definitely going that route with him. A 'walking parody' of Austin is still better than Orton. If you want to use Austin's last years in wrestling as a measuring stick then we can use Orton's first couple of months as well. Or his terrible first WWE Championship run where he had very little competition with Cena out on injury.

    He isn't a tweener anymore and he won't go back to being one for a while. He's a full fledged face now. People will try and label him as a tweener because they don't want to be so in love with a face. You can't use the whole "but he does whatever he wants when he wants to who he wants'' line because Austin did it first. Austin would stun anyone in the ring with him whether it be partner or foe. Major heel/tweener tactics there but he was a face. So is Orton. As far as Austin's catchphrases go, they're so of the most popular of all time. Orton doesn't have any because he couldn't pull it off. Most would agree that he would sounds stupid trying to get the crowd to participate in his promos. He doesn't have half of the mic skills that Austin had.

    Personally, heel Austin after Wrestlemania 17 was one of my favorite characters of all time. Now the WHAT! chant is a very touchy subject because some love it and the others loathe it. To me, it's become a newer version of you suck, one of the oldest chants in wrestling. If you think of it in that way, it isn't so bad. Back to the gimmick. They made Austin a heel by not only keeping some of his old character but keeping a great proportion with attributes that were very anti-Austin. He would still stun everyone in sight but would only do it when he wouldn't be in harms way. He was a coward but still ruthless. You had a great juxtaposition of character within one wrestler. Rarely does that happen.

    The fact that you think Austin is only a brawler makes me question had far your knowledge of the man goes. Austin is one of the most underrated performers when it comes to technicality. He wasn't talked about like a Bret Hart or a Chris Benoit, but you bet your ass he could hang with them on a competitive level. He had a great mix of straight brawling and technical skills. He was very calculated in purposeful in his ring work. He would know when to be technical and when to be more straight forward in his striking.

    [YOUTUBE]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-YmLjzZXa_w&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-YmLjzZXa_w&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

    You still see the familiar Austin moves, but you also can tell that he has far more to offer than brawling. I'm not calling Orton a slouch in the ring, but people need to understand that his moves are a direct product of his gimmick. He never performed moves the same when he was the legend killer. He's psychotic, quick, the viper and so on. He delivers the 5 or so moves he does with intensity. We get it. He hit all of his moves with viciousness the same way that Orton does. Like I've said before, you perform the moves the way it suits your character/gimmick. Austin shortened his moveset after dropping the Ring Master gimmick for Stone Cold. Doesn't mean that he was all brawling and to say so clearly shows how uninformed you are.
     
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  21. Blade

    Blade "Original Blade"

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    Oh boy. This will go Austin's way, and perhaps it should. But I'm still going to go with Orton as I... Simply prefer him. Orton gets called over rated alot around here, but it's no different with Austin, Austin was over rated. He was still great, but over rated.

    If we go for Kayfabe reasons... Well, Orton wins matches where he is the definite underdog. Against Benoit at Summerslam, against Triple H and Cena at Wrestlemania and against Cena in the cell. Whether people like to to admit it or not, when the odds are against Orton is when he's at his best. Yeah, Austin defied the odds constantly too. But Austin isn't the underdog in this match, It's Orton through and through. And I think Orton would be able to prove many wrong again. Weak arguement or not, I think it's still relevant.
     
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  22. Via Armbar

    Via Armbar Has a pretty good dick.

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    Overrated for some reasons, underrated for others. At first glance, I can see why some people think Austin is overrated. Those same reasons can be applied to damn near anyone with success. If he's overrated because of his character than so is The Rock. If he's overrated with ring work than so is Kurt Angle. You can make a case for any wrestler being overrated.

    It seems as if you would like to get away with a short answer but I would like to hear what particular things lead you to think that Austin is overrated. If it comes down to preference than I understand, but if you have concrete reasons as to why he is overrated than I'd like to hear them.

    No, Mysterio is an underdog. I don't understand where people got this whole ''who wasn't supposed to win'' shti from. The only matches of his that I was surprised he won was against Benoit and at Wrestlemania 24. Those are the only times I considered him a noticeable underdog. When Orton did win his underdog matches, look how fast he lost the title afterwards. Austin was the top guy in the company when there was only one title and eveyone was gunning for it. When you're a top face in the company and not named John Cena, your days as champion are already numbered. That can be considered being an underdog if you want to go that route.
     
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  23. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    Orton would be a pretty good wrestler, if it wasn't for the fact that he was so boring. He was a part of one of the most boring Wrestlemania main events ever, he was apart of possibly the most boring stable ever with 2 other boring guys, his super slow entrance is really boring. What is there to like about the guy? Sure, he's had his fair share of really good matches, but when you're in the main event for 5 plus years you're bound to have a few good matches and beat most of your opponents at some point.

    Austin was far more interesting and important to the WWE than Orton ever will be. He was a part of perhaps the greatest match of all time against Hart, he was the Attitude Era, he was in a movie that didn't completely tank. A rattlesnake beats a viper everytime, right?
     
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  24. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    I was never a big Austin fan, but let's be honest here, he is a much bigger name than Orton ever was. Orton's legend killer gimmick is much worse in hindsight than it seems and I don't think that's be enough. The people who got one over on Austin were typically heels who had some sort of authority behind them, whereas the straight up "typical" heels just lost to him. Orton may prove to be one of the biggest names of his generation, but Austin is one of the biggest of all time.
     
    #24
  25. Monkey_Mania

    Monkey_Mania I Am The One Who Knocks

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    Orton is a fantastic superstar. That just doesn't do it for him here. Austin could rile up a crowd like no other, he just had them in the palm of his hand whenever he walked through that curtain to the time he walked back to the backstage. I've been rewatching Raw from 2001 and there was nobody in the WORLD that could evoke a reaction whether it be good or bad from the audience like good old Stone Cold.

    Austin may not have been the best in the ring, but the audience watched his every move. It seemed like all Austin had to do to get a reaction was just breathe. Randy Orton isn't quite there yet. Who knows if he will be one day though.
     
    #25

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