Sam's Animated Comedy Rant

[Uncle Sam]

It needs to come out. This thread can be used for general discussion about animated comedies too.

So, let's start out with The Simpsons. Is The Simpsons the greatest television show ever? Damn near everyone on planet Earth would have you think so, but the answer is no. At one point, notably between seasons three and nine, The Simpsons was unquestionably the greatest television show ever. However, like a prostitute that's been on the street too long, The Simpsons has lost its way. The bad times now outweigh the good and that is why it is simply impossible to call it the best show on Earth.

So, when did the Simpsons jump the shark? It's actually so sudden you can pinpoint it. Season Ten. Season Eight was the peak, where every single episode is now considered a modern classic. Season Nine was decent, but you could sense the quality declining. Season Ten was it. There have been good episodes since, but none that have measured up to classic Simpsons. The Simpsons didn't so much jump the skark but trip, scraping its face along the ramp before being ripped and torn apart by the fish, coming out the other side an unrecognisable mess. It's been that way for what, nearly a decade now?

So what is it that makes new Simpsons so bad? It's a mixture of things, really, and it can be hard to finger. There's a sense that we've seen it all before, but that's not the big problem. The big problem is throwing story out the window in favour of gags. The writers seem to have misunderstood that just because it's a comedy they're making, it means every fucking line has to be a joke. Most of them bad. That just means that when something funny does happen, it's buried beneath so much shit that it's hard to notice. And when you look back, it's actually the stories of The Simpsons you remember. When the new episodes do have a story, it's normally so far fetched that it's damn near impossible to recognise, particularly when it's interrupted every four seconds by a needless gag. And oh dear God, the cliches. The Simpsons used to mock the cliches it now employs. They may still be mocking them but their parodies have become so crude you just can't tell. From introducing guest stars, "It's successful rap star and mulit-million album selling Fifty Cent" to "The Simpsons are going to [random place]", it's just painful to watch.

Why do people still love The Simpsons? Well, I suppose it's the same reason you still love your nan. She's not very coherent any more, the poor dear, in fact, she's probably bat shit crazy, but dammit, the memories are there!

Don't even get me started on the movie.

So, with the show that set the standard so appalling, it's only natural people would look for a successor during its long, drawn out, painful death. The show that most people claim is the next Simpsons is Family Guy.

They're wrong, of course. Family Guy is terrible. It's funny, something that The Simpsons can't be, but it's terrible. It also has to go out of its fucking way to be funny. Like The Simpsons, it gave up on being coherent long ago. However, it wasn't coherent for long anyway, and at least it has the decency to go absolute fucking nuts with its non-coherency. Like if your nan didn't take her meds.

I don't really appreciate how far Family Guy is reaching any more. For example, a joke from an episode I saw recently. Somebody comments that Michael J. Fox has been cast as Zorro. Cue flashback sequence - about the thirtieth in the three minutes the episode's been on - a couple of guys ask who the masked bandit was, one says he left his insignia on the wall. The camera pans to see a large scribble on the wall. The joke here is that Michael J. Fox has Parkinson's disease and so physically can't make a Z. I actually yelled "Fuck you!" at the screen.

Why does Family Guy do this? It's because it's what the fans expect. Family Guy got canceled when it was coherent. However, in its new form it's more popular than ever. Why? Well, it's because the fans love the random gags. It's the only reason it was brought back. And now it's using the old "throw everything you can at it and see what sticks" philosophy, which explains why it's so hit-and-miss, doesn't it?

I don't feel particularly passionately for Family Guy either way though, so let's move on.

South Park. South Park, like Family Guy and The Simpsons, has changed from it's original form. However, unlike both those shows, it's really found it's groove. It's also fulfilled the ultimate goal of a comedy - being absolutely fucking hilarious? Does that mean every line has to be a joke? No. Does that mean you just fire off crazy, random scenarios until you get a laugh? No. It means being the best show there has ever been at parodying real life, but actually showing it for how crazy and ridiculous it really is. Religion, the media, government, regular people, there's nothing safe from South Park's incredibly accurate observational skills. This isn't Family Guy humour either, as South Park pointed out during the fantastic "Cartoon Wars". This humour is relevant to the story, and, as Trey Parker and Matt Stone actually failed to point out, funny most of the time.

It's odd that, despite, how much I love South Park, I can't think of any more to write. Oh well, let's move on.

Now it's time for a slightly more obscure animated comedy. One created and written by the same guys who made Family Guy actually. Yup, American Dad. I love this show. It's like if Family Guy was coherent, you filtered out all the "hit" jokes and put them within the context of a story. It's that good. Well, sometimes it's not so good. Unfortunately, living in England, I can't get American Dad until it comes out on DVD. But goddammit, at least they give you a full season, unlike Family Guy, where they charge you full price for half a season and half price for two episodes stuck together. Fuck you Fox, you're as crazy as Family Guy is with your DVD prices!

There's also the fact that, oh yeah, American Dad is funny, and the minor characters, despite not being utterly fantastic, have developed their own personalities rather than becoming one long, running joke like in certain other shows.

I suppose that's it for now. I'd comment on Futurama, but they've been cancelled, and I'll be fucked if they're going to do the Family Guy trick of charging me £13 ($26) for what's basically two episodes.

 

[simpsons_fanatic742]

While I agree with you that The Simpsons have fallen off course past season 10ish, I don't think it has been as bad as you point out. I also don't agree that the bad outweights the good. This show has been the pinnacle of cartoons and has had so much relevance to popular culture, society, politics, you name it, to be forgotten because of some bad episodes. There is too many good moments in The Simpsons to ever be considered as second-rate or what not. I definitely respect your opinion, but I can't agree with you.

I personally think that anyone who trys to compare Family Guy to The Simpsons is crazy. A 23 minute show with about 13 minutes of flashbacks that don't add to the story and are there because they make a 23 minute show without filler material, and I like Family Guy so this isn't biased. An example, they started a fight seen with the Chicken and Peter and I went to get something and when I came back they were still fighting, a good 5 minutes of it. Is that really necessary? I don't think so. But there are some funny flashbacks that only take about 5-10 seconds and those are okay, but they take those overboard too.

South Park is great, no question. They are always on top of current issues in the world and put a comedic, vulgar spin on it and it works. There's always some kind of message involved in the episode. The show is hilarious and I don't really think you can compare it to The Simpsons because they are both two different styles of show. One is acceptable for all ages and make jokes without the vulgarity(The Simpsons) and one is crude humour and swearing galour(South Park), both work great in their own right.

I love Futurama and I thinks it's hilarious. Fry and Bender are awesome characters and the whole story of the show is cool, with all of the future environments and the different ways to do things. I honestly love this show.

*BTW, very good post and I definitely hope some good discussions come from this

 

[Uncle Sam]

I've got to admit, I was very much expecting a very spammy, "noobish" reply from somebody named simpson_fanatic. I've been very pleasantly surprised.

While I agree with you that The Simpsons have fallen off course past season 10ish, I don't think it has been as bad as you point out. I also don't agree that the bad outweights the good. This show has been the pinnacle of cartoons and has had so much relevance to popular culture, society, politics, you name it, to be forgotten because of some bad episodes. There is too many good moments in The Simpsons to ever be considered as second-rate or what not. I definitely respect your opinion, but I can't agree with you.

The Simpsons is nearing its twentieth season now, correct? Firstly, I feel that's ridiculous, and there's a reason ten is considered too much. That's not my point though. Taking Seasons One and Two out of consideration for being the seasons where the series "found its feet" and you've got about six seasons of top-notch TV, although Series Three and Nine are ever so slightly questionable. That's six seasons out of nineteen. That leaves thirteen seasons of largely disappointment, at least to those that appreciated the Simpsons for its sophistication. So in terms of sheer quantity, I feel that the bad outweighs the good. However, you make the point of saying how relevant the Simpsons was to, well, I won't copy your list, western society as a whole. That in mind, the good may well have made a bigger impact and left more of a lasting impression than the bad, although I think the endless flow of needless guest stars and it's rarely decreasing popularity contradict that somewhat.

I personally think that anyone who trys to compare Family Guy to The Simpsons is crazy. A 23 minute show with about 13 minutes of flashbacks that don't add to the story and are there because they make a 23 minute show without filler material, and I like Family Guy so this isn't biased. An example, they started a fight seen with the Chicken and Peter and I went to get something and when I came back they were still fighting, a good 5 minutes of it. Is that really necessary? I don't think so. But there are some funny flashbacks that only take about 5-10 seconds and those are okay, but they take those overboard too.

The thing is, I think that the jokes and gags in the Simpsons have become so irrelevant, so hit-and-miss and indeed so crude that they have a definite similarity to Family Guy. Are they the same? No. Are they from the same family (guy)? I believe so. I remember one recent episode which got so sidetracked that they had Bart describe what had happened in the plot without it actually being shown on screen - "So Mr. Burns, you're telling me that [what happened, which you never actually saw]?"

South Park is great, no question. They are always on top of current issues in the world and put a comedic, vulgar spin on it and it works. There's always some kind of message involved in the episode. The show is hilarious and I don't really think you can compare it to The Simpsons because they are both two different styles of show. One is acceptable for all ages and make jokes without the vulgarity(The Simpsons) and one is crude humour and swearing galour(South Park), both work great in their own right.

I wouldn't call South Park crude. It often has that sort of appearance, but it's largely in criticism of others, showing their crudeness. I'd also like to point out that watching old Simpsons you can see all the sly references and the cutting satire, it's just not as painfully blatant as their recent failures. I mean, attempts. It was always an adults show that kids could watch too. I feel now it's not really fitted for any self-respecting (i.e. pretentious) adult to watch.

I love Futurama and I thinks it's hilarious. Fry and Bender are awesome characters and the whole story of the show is cool, with all of the future environments and the different ways to do things. I honestly love this show.

I've heard someone say, "Futurama was cancelled because it wasn't The Simpsons." I whole-heartedly agree with that statement, because I don't see why a show of such quality (although, admittedly, it had a little difficulty in the fourth season, but nothing massive) would be canceled otherwise. Aside from The Simpsons, the side characters are the best that have ever existed. Better than The Simpsons, if you take into account their "maintenance issues."

 

[simpsons_fanatic742]

Good response. You made alot of good points. One thing in particular was that South Park is crude. I didn't mean it like off the wall offensive, but rather more mature and much more uncensored, although South Park has gone far alot of times, but that's the show. I think crude may have been the wrong word.

Also, the seasons that you pointed out for The Simpsons that you say are bad, I don't necessarily agree. I definitely think that The Simpsons have not been consistent with past seasons, but I don't think that most of the episodes are all that bad. There are some that are outlandish and have crazy plots, but I don't think any show has been perfect with every episode. There have been times that The Simpsons do go the way of Family Guy, but I think that is because alot of people like Family Guy and I think Groening is trying to reach back to those fans, which I think is a bad idea. They were fans before and probably still are, and you captured them with older episodes so he shouldn't fall off course and change with the new shows. The Simpsons are not what they used to be, but I believe they still have that special something in all of their episodes that sets them apart from all of the other shows.

I think our many difference here is you find alot of the seasons have very sub-par episodes, while I think that only some have been not-so-great.

BTW, I loved The Simpsons Movie. I think the main reason why people didn't like it was because the expectations were very, very high for the movie. I mean it was almost 18 years in the making and since the show was so popular, people thought the movie had to the greatest of all-time. I don't think it was all that it could have been, but I loved it.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

I definitely agree that The Simpson's have fallen off the wagon too. They used to be so funny. Anymore they either have to rehash old gags or totally steal them from other shows. The thing is though. I still watch them to this day. The Simpson's has to be my favorite animated series of all time. I've pretty much watched it since day one, and will probably continue to watch it until it goes off the air.

Even though the seasons have gotten worse, some of the episodes are not half bad. They just are not the same as they used to be. I still love the Simpson's and I always will.

 

[Afro-Ameri-Spawn]

I think that there was a time when The Simpsons pushed the envelope and was the basic blueprint for any animated sitcoms that came down the pipeline around that time. I even remember how The Simpsons was getting spin-offs everywhere in the form of Futurama and The Critic. OF course, as Sam pointed out, it was Season Ten that petered The Simpsons out and started the stale "sameness" that you see now on the programs.

So what was it that was so significant about Season Ten that changed the whole scope by which The Simpsons creativity began to slip? Well, if I am not mistaken, that was the season where The Simpsons, officially passed it's retired counterpart, Married With Children, as being the longest running sitcom in history. But I'm sure you wonder how that effected the then edgy Simpsons. Well, when they passed this milestone, they became more and more family oriented. More wholesome. Sure they push the envelope, but it's a different envelope. Plus, with the lose of Phil Hartman, many of the well recognized sleezy voices were now gone. But one plus to drawing back the edge a bit is that it made the show more available to syndication on networks that don't have edgy content but want to lure in younger viewers.

This is pretty much why you see other shows that aren't afraid to push it to the edge flourishing right now. Many of them are on out of the way networks, but they still have all of the tools that you originally saw on the Simpsons during it's heyday.

1. The Family Guy- This show has shows that is has no fear of sensors. They show the raunchiest content that they can find, all wrapped up in a plethora of 80's references. Being a child of the 80's I must say that this show has come a long way since it was restarted. I can see Family Guy giving The Simpsons a run for it's money on the whole "longest running" title. It' keeps it[s content fresh and appeals greatly to younger viewers.

2. South Park- South Park USED to be edgy. Now, it spends alot of time just copying bad movie plots such as Deep Impact and many many others. I mean spoofing is one thing, but they just seem to be treading water for checks these days. I don't see alot of creativity and it's just become one big fat joke. I mean they have a good episode every now and then, but it's overall not even funny anymore. I'm sorry, but that's just my take on it.

3. Spot Monkeys- This show is hilarious. I mean I have seen shows poke fun at video games but this is more like a video game that pokes fun at shows. The content is good. it's over the top just enough to make you bust a gut but not enough to be cheesy. The graphics also make me geek out for the old NES. I can't wait til this show comes out on DVD so that I can catch up on any episodes I may have missed.

4. Futurama- This show is a classic. What the Simpsons lost, this show gained. I was sad to find out that it would not be on Cartoon Network anymore. It was the staple that created the whole Adult Swim genre. But it will have a nice home on Comedy Central. I can't wait for the new episodes to finally come through.

5. Drawn Together- It once was funny, now it's not. Not much more I can say. It had a good premise, but it drove the exact same jokes dead into the ground. And unfortunately South Park is no longer strong enough to carry this show if it returns.

6. Robot Chicken- This show is smart. it's funny. It's for people of all ages and has just enough 80's references to make it the hit that it is.

7. The Venture Brothers- Also another instant classic. This show pokes more fun at Johnny Quest than anything that I have ever seen. It also references other cartoon sleuth shows as well. And that's what makes it a hit.

8. American Dad- Not a bad show, but it still has a long way to come before I can consider it to be a classic. It has show alot of promise though.

9. King Of The Hill- To be honest, I'm surprised that this show is still around. It's the same joke over and over again. So his wife is an ego maniac. So his son isn't manly. So he loves propain. So his neighbors are idiots. So what. I hate even watching it when nothing else is on. The show should go. Mike Judge was a one trick pony with Beavis And Butthead. And this show proves it.

Now I'm sure that there are alot more promising shows that I could have rattled off, but the fact is that the jury is still out on them. Hopefully one of them will be able to match The Simpsons for longevity. And hopefully the show will stay fresh through it's run. Hopefully.