That's a problem though.. what he did in Ring of Honor does not make him a serious contender in the WWE. The fact that he is watered down hurts him in this argument. Unfortunately, all he has is the shooting star press as of right now and that really is all that is getting him over.
I would absolutely agree with that. However, it was not the point that I was making.
What I was saying is that we all know how credible Evan Bourne can be and I was using his days in Ring Of Honour to illustrate that. They guy was really over with the fans and he could bring some of that promise to the WWE with him, which I would argue he has done.
I wouldnt say he is watered down because every single person who comes through the doors of the WWE are going to have to lose something that they would rather do. Evan Bourne is just another example of that. Sure, John Cena would like to hit Randy Orton on the head with a chair to get a pop from the audience but that is not going to happen. Evan Bourne could be so much more if he was given the opportunity in the WWE.
ehh, there's another problem. You have to wait on the WWE to book him properly for him to be a serious contender, you might have just proved my point. As far as the "WWE Universe" is concerned, Bourne had no credibility when he started in the WWE because they put him at the very bottom of the card. The pops for his SSP are the only reason he's even got a fan base right now.. honestly, this guy is vanilla like ice cream my friend. You may consider him legitimate but looking at the facts, it's hard to believe anybody else does at this point.
Uh, you realise that every single person in the wrestling has to wait on the all-clear from their respective promotions, right?
You think The Miz just walked into Vinces office and told him that he was going to be pushed and Vince McMahon had no power to over-rule that decision? Absolutely not! At the end of the day, Evan Bourne busts his ass week in and week out. When the WWE feel he is ready to move on to bigger and better things, the WWE will have the final say on the matter.
And what exactly does legitimate mean? Does it mean that you realistically think that he could give anyone a decent match? Or does it mean that he could be put anywhere on the card and stand a chance? Either way, Evan Bourne fits that criteria. He has feuded up and down the card. He has feuded with The Miz and Sheamus and has done his time at the very bottom. No matter who Evan Bourne is in the ring with these days, you can always imagine him coming away with the victory. It wasnt so lon ago that he was pinning Sheamus.
It all comes back to how the WWE feel like booking Evan Bourne, or any other superstar for that matter. If the WWE want them to be seen as the next big thing, then they will go out of their way to make that happen. Whether or not he holds a belt or not is irrelevant.
I mean, look at Jack Swagger. He has not had many Championship reigns over his tenure in the WWE, yet we all think of him as one of the main legitimate talents on Smackdown. How did he manage that? By winning the Money in the Bank ladder match of course. Now, since that is not a recognised Championship in the WWE, are you seriously arguing that Evan Bourne winning the Money in the Bank Ladder Match would not make him a legitimate talent?
This faults your argument Dave. The fact that he has been used in a less than flattering manner at times is the reason why his credibility is the turd in the toliet.. it's about to get flushed. He could be a champion right now but WWE hasn't used him to his potential that you say he has.. therefore, WWE has made him out to be a contender of the non-serious fame. I haven't talked about him as if he was a superstar either, I'm considering him just another face on the roster.
Well that is completely subjective, isnt it?
I could say that Eva Bourne has been the best thing on Raw over the last couple of months but it wouldnt mean anything at all really.
The thing is, every single superstar in the WWE has had times where they have not lived up to the potential that we all thought they had. John Cena is constantly berated for his lack of variety in the ring. Randy Orton was verbally raped for his feud with Triple H at last years WrestleMania and this is just part and parcel of being a WWE superstar. However, each one of these guys have come good again and that is what will happen for Evan Bourne, mark my words.
The WWE have shown enough promise in Evan Bourne that I am filled with confidence for his future. AT Money In The Bank, we all though that he was going to be a contender to take the Championship opportunity home with him. Evan Bourne had not won a championship to achieve that status, we just thought that he was a legitimate contender for that match. How did that happen? Again, it comes back to the WWE making him look like a star in the lead up to that match. To suggest that the WWE could not make it happen again without Bourne winning a title is just ridiculous.
Whether he would get locked down or prosper is up the booking team. But look dude, you said Championships are literally tools for getting people over.. !!!! We have a winner. Exactly my point. If they just let him hold a title then he can enter future matches as a "former champion" thus instantly making him a bigger threat then his is now. Right now he's just "that guy who does the SSP". He has no identity or character. He just smiles and flips. His shoulder rubbing with Cena is forgettable already considering he took a nasty RKO, a beat down from Miz and an ass stomping form Sheamus. Really sounds credible after that, huh?
See this is just proving my point!
You are saying that he could go into each match as a Former Champion but you are also saying that he has no credibility outside of one move at the moment. Now, how exactly would that be a good move for Evan Bourne or the WWE based on what you have said?
How would it help Evan Bourne become legitimate if he was holding a Championship that meant nothing? According to you, Evan Bourne has no credibility but you would want him to hold onto a Championship with that tag attached? Why would the WWE sign off on that? Why take the belt off of someone like The Miz, who is being built to the moon, and give it to Bourne who only has one move?
This just proves my point that people do not think of the Championship belts as a legitimate way to get people over anymore. 10 years ago, it was different. Right now though, no one cares about who is Champion. In the WWE, more important things are going on with the young talent than who is holding Championships.
This has been proven to be a mere flash in the pan though Dave. As we look at his overall body of work the past few months he went from on the verge to just falling off the cliff as he climbed to the top.
And I am glad you can see in to the future to ensure that this is accurate as can be? Otherwise, that is a pretty nonsensical claim.
As I have said before, the last match he had against The Miz said more about The Miz than it did about Evan Bourne. The WWE wanted to put out a message on behalf of the Miz and the best, most legitimate, talent that they had at their disposal was Evan Bourne. Think about how that win went over. Were people shocked about how easily The Miz went over Evan Bourne? Yes they were!
This is my point. Evan Bourne, up until that point was made to look like a legitimate contender within the WWE. The WWE realised that he had enough credibility to go against The Miz and people would talk about the Miz in a positive fashion afterwards. Not a lot of people can carry off that role but Evan Bourne has amassed enough credibility to make it work.
Both my friend. It shows that they were willing to job out Bourne, no matter how popular he is, and give the Miz a dominating victory. Bourne is not a threat. Nobody thought he'd beat Miz when he was introduced. So it was easy for Miz to beat him down like that and for us to continue on as if it never happened. Miz is on the rise and Bourne was proven to not be going anywhere anytime soon. Hey Miz, go win the World Title. Hey Bourne, be the curtain jerker and hit a SSP to get the crowd going, thanks.
Nobody!? Thats a bit of an overstatement, isnt it?
Most of that was covered in my rebuttal right above, so I wont type it out again.
His victory over the Miz was AFTER getting destroyed by Sheamus and the Nexus.. he was clearly on the decline already. The victory didn't legitimize Miz, just made him look dominant. Due to Bourne's status, which you have even said is rocky, this did nothing but bury Bourne further and give Miz a victory. It was just a tool for a victory, Dave.
I beg to differ.
And are you implying that rubbing shoulder with The Nexus (The most dominant stable in Raws recent history) and Sheamus (the WWE Champion) was a bad thing for Evan Bourne?
It wasnt so long ago that Eva Bourne was struggling to beat the likes of Zach Ryder. I will give you that fact that he looked bad at that point. But you only need to look as far as who is feuding with now to see how far he has come. Has he held a title in that amount of time? No he has not.
What I am saying is that they have made him look so much more credible in the last few months without a Championship, so the evidence to support the opinion that he would be more legitimate as Champion is not really there at all. The WWE are doing a fine job of getting Evan Bourne further up the card naturally and putting a Championship on him has had no part of that.
Ahh, see Dave.. I wasn't talking about 5 moves of doom. Cena has the PERSONALITY to carry the company. I don't care if Cena does 10000 moves or 1 move.. he can talk too. My one trick pony argument is based off of the WWE just sending Bourne out to do the SSP for a pop and to get the crowd alive. That is ALL he is good for at the moment and that is ALL he is being used for. You even said that the WWE has to choose to make him a serious contender.. to me that seems like even you don't think he is right now. Yeah, he could be a serious contender if he beats Sheamus next week, but all that is, is speculation. We gotta argue based on the facts and the fact is as of right now, Bourne is no where close to breaking the glass ceiling. He needs a shot in the arm.. he needs....
A title. *cue dramatic music*
I dont think he is right now? Are you putting words in my mouth?
I do think of Bourne as a serious contender and I would urge you to look further into Evan Bourne matches. Yes, he does have one move that everyone can get a pop from. However, I would argue that he is so much more than a one trick pony. I would say that he has attempted to work on a more varied move set over the last couple of months and the WWE seem to be willing to give him that opportunity as of late. He may seem as though he has no charisma but when was the last time you heard him talk? As with all of the young guys who have come into the WWE recently, we are still waiting for them to grow into their roles and show us what they can do.
Not everyone is going to be as gifted on the mic as John Cena or The Rock but it is in the ring that they need to make up for that. The same could be said of Randy Ortons face turn. He has no charisma as a face but he is still mightily over with the crowd and is going after the WWE Championship. The same is true of Jack Swagger. Some would argue that he has no charisma as of late and his heel turn has shown that he canot carry off both alignments. However, we all know how gifted he is inside the ring and he is still in the main event on Smackdown.
My point is that you dont need to be the reincarnation of The Rock to be a legitimate superstar.
