Round 2: Papa Grande -vs- jmt225

Discussion in 'Debater's League 2010' started by D-Man, Aug 8, 2010.

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  1. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Has Dixie Carter’s involvement in TNA as an on-air character affected her position as an actual leader of TNA?

    This is a second round match in the Debater's League. Papa Grande is the home debater and gets to choose which side of the debate they will be on and who debates first, but they have 24 hours to make their choice.

    This thread is for DEBATERS ONLY and will end on Friday at 2pm EST.

    Good luck.​
     
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  2. Megatron

    Megatron Justin Verlander > You

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    Yes, she has, and jmt can go first.
     
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  3. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    Why should a worker ever care if their boss has an on-screen persona in professional wrestling? If you look throughout the history of the business, never, and I mean NEVER, has an owner or booker taking an on-screen persona affected the company in bad manner, unless it was them booking themselves to be champion and stuff like that (which Dixie Carter certainly is not, and will never, do). If a person working for TNA liked and respected Dixie Carter before she took a position on television, then I guarantee they will still like and respect her now, if not even more so for having the courage to actually put her face out there and interact with the TNA audience live on television.

    If Dixie's leadership is ever affected it will because of her decisions OFF-AIR. Nobody should care if she takes 2 minutes of air-time to announce a big match every now and then. That's literally all she does on television. They'll pan to her sitting in the audience watching a match, and the only time she says anything is to announce something "big." That's literally it. She takes up no more 2 minutes every time she has a promo, and those two minutes serve a valuable purpose.

    Now, if she became this big on-air persona where she wanted to be like Vince's old character in WWE... then I can see why that would affect her leadership, since she would then be taking valuable time away from the wrestlers who work for her and deserve as much possible time as they can get, since the roster is overloaded to begin with. However, she doesn't do that. She plays a small character that does nothing but show the absolute utmost respect to the wrestlers who work for her. She says nothing demeaning about anyone, or uses her power in the company to put anyone in a bad position like most on-screen "owners" do. She's just a goody two-shoes who makes a big announcement every now and then... how in the World does that affect her leadership in the company? She's not making a clown of herself, and she's not making anyone look bad.

    The fact of the matter is, behind the scenes, from all accounts, Dixie Carter presents herself as a respectful woman who only wants the best for TNA, and that's exactly how she has presented herself thus far on television. Where's the harm in that? I don't see it, and Pape Grande, with all due respect, there's not an argument you can make that could prove otherwise.
     
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  4. Megatron

    Megatron Justin Verlander > You

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    First of all, good luck, jmt, as I'm glad I get a debate this week, instead of me just posting a statement, even if it's about a product that I'm not fully familiar with...
    -----------------------------------

    Yes, it most certainly has.

    Dixie was nonexistent on television for the first few years of the companys life, while she had guys like Jim Cornette, Larry Zbyszko, and Dusty Rhodes be the on-air authority figure, making the decisions of the show. And that was all fine and well. Nobody was complaining that Carter wasn't coming on. However, since she began to start appearing more on TV, she's believe that she can do almost anything that she wants, and there won't be reprocussions.

    Case in point, a few days ago, Dixie decided that she would go out, in a complete shoot interview, and answer any questions about how TNA was going. Now, I haven't personally seen the shoot, but you never saw Vince, Verne Gagne, Jim Cornette, or other owners of a wrestling company go out and let a bunch of smarks ask her questions about how her company is doing. What if someone asked how TNA was doing financially and she said they were in a slump, that would definately scare workers away. Why would they even bother to go to a sinking ship like TNA when they'd get more money and be secure, career wise, with the WWE. While it's only speculations, it's obvious that TNA isn't making records in the ratings and they don't seem to be going anywhere - they've been stuck where they're at in the ratings for almost 2 years now.

    While she, like jmt said, only makes a few small appearances to announce something, what is it's worth? Why doesn't she let Eric Bischoff make that move and she can stay off camera? What is the point for her coming out to make a few announcements while Bischoff makes others? Why even have a guy like Bischoff employed if you aren't going to let him make all of the announcements? She is taking time away by having these little skits/segments of hers. It may only be 2 minutes at once, but she will show up at least 3-4 times a show, which could take away match/interview/build up time for someone who needs it. Dixie has built an ego that she's an important part to iMPACT, when the stuff that she does could be passed off to Bischoff.

    Sometimes, it's better to stay in the background, and in Dixie's case, this applies.

    Because they (the boss) might be taking away time that the worker could use to make a better match. Especially in Dixie's case, where she's doing nothing that Bischoff couldn't do.

    But what does that show gain with them on? It's not like the fans were chanting for Dixie to come out and address them. She felt the need to make announcements that, for the most part, are unnecessary and an authority figure that is constantly featured on TNA (Bischoff) could make it.

    But they might see her as having an ego because she feels to come out only when there's an important announcement? What about when there's a signing of a Brian Kendrick or Shannon Moore? You don't see her come out then. So why doesn't she just have Bischoff make the important announcements like the ECW invasion they've had?

    While I agree with most of that, what about when a new X-Division star debuts? You don't see Dixie come out and announce their signing to TNA. Isn't that a sort of burial? She's making it known that the X-Division stars aren't as important as the big names.

    But she doesn't just make one appearance when she has those announcements during the show. She'll constantly appear in little backstage segments 3 or 4 times a show doing nothing but walking backstage towards nothing or talking to a production worker. What does that gain for anyone? That could take away some small buildup or promo for a wrestler that otherwise won't get on the show.

    You mean by doing something that Bischoff could do himself?

    But what does the show gain from it? Nothing. That's what you're trying to do: put on the best show possible. Does a Dixie appearance really make an impact? Hell no. In fact, it takes away from the rest of the show because Tenay and Tazz are always focusing on what the announcement will be and not about the action that's in the ring.

    Why does she need to make the announcements? To build her ego. Whenever she comes on TNA puts on multiple segments of her doing absolutely NOTHING backstage, while you could have Bischoff come out and make those same announcements without all of the hoopla.

    Except for those workers that she doesn't make the big announcement for. Obviously Kurt Angle and Hulk Hogan are bigger stars then Brian Kendrick and Shannon Moore, but what does it say to those guys that Dixie will only come out for an important announcement? It says that she knows you aren't as important to the show and that you're just lucky to be on the ride. Burial.
     
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  5. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    And exactly how were TNA's numbers doing back then? They were horrible, to answer that question.

    Also, it's not fair to compare Dixie to those guys, because Dixie's role on television isn't nearly as big as those were.

    Who's complaining about it now besides a couple of fans on the IWC?

    Could you please provide examples to this?

    Wait a second... what does any of this have to do with her appearing on television, first of all?

    Secondly, Jim Cornette has given NUMEROUS shoot interviews, while still being head of booking in companies such as OVW, TNA, and Ring of Honor.

    Moreover, Vince himself has given shoot interviews, don't kid yourself. Was it available for DVD? No, but he still gave them on various television programs and in press conferences. Case in point, here's part one of Vince McMahon on "On the Record with Bob Costas," a television show that was seen by millions and millions of more people than Dixie Carter's little DVD with Kayfabe Commentaries.

    [YOUTUBE]JxChS8qfsWM[/YOUTUBE]

    Because people know by now she's the true head honcho of the company. It only makes sense for her to be the one to announce the big decisions, since she's the one who makes them.

    I mean, think about it.. just because there's a GM of Raw, does that mean Vince McMahon could never then come out and announce something to his audience?

    That's an exaggeration, man.

    First of all, if she shows up on the program more around 3-4 times, on 3 of those occasions they're just panning to her reacting to a match or segment, which only last a couple of seconds. Never, and I mean NEVER, has she had full length, multiple segments on the show.

    Where's your proof of this "ego?" Just because she gave a shoot interview, man, that doesn't she all of the sudden has a large ego. You have to give more examples than that.

    How so? What harm is she causing exactly? You still have yet to address this.

    Dude, if Dixie didn't have that screen time, then Bischoff would anyway... so what worker is she taking away time from?

    TNA fans like Dixie Carter, bottom line. She's fan friendly and a pretty face.. what's not to like? And having her on to announce the big signings and surprises, Impact! gains realism, since everyone watching already knows that she is the one really running the company.

    How is that an ego thing? Her having an ego would be her taking up more time than she needs, but she doesn't do that. She comes out, makes her announcement, and then gives all the glory to the announcement. For example, when they signed Bobby Lashley... in that interview, the only time Dixie opened her mouth was to praise Bobby Lashley and how great of thing that was for TNA. How is there an ego attached to that?

    Because those aren't necessarily big announcements. Those guys are mid-carders... why should Dixie make a big deal out of someone who's only going to be wrestling in mid-card matches?

    Because Bischoff is doing his own thing, and it wouldn't have made sense anyway for Eric Bischoff, a known ECW hater, to form an alliance with those guys and bring them on his program.

    Besides, like I said, having Dixie announce something like that adds legitimacy to it since everyone knows she's the true president of the company.

    Because they're not as important as the big names. The fact of the matter is the X-Division Title isn't as big as the TNA World Title. If it was, then X-Division matches would be headlining pay-per-views rather than TNA World Title matches.

    Moreover, we've seen Vince plenty of times come out and make a big announcement, and never has it been about a mid-carder. Does that make the mid-carders look bad? Of course it doesn't.

    Lol... dude, it's called hyping up the big announcement. Mike Tenay and Tazz are talking up a storm speculating what the announcement is, and there's no other choice than to put the camera on Dixie for a few seconds since it's relevant to the conversation. That's not her stealing screen time... that's TNA hyping up the big announcement.

    Explain to me what impact it would have if Bischoff made these announcements instead of Dixie?

    Dude, commentators have done that since the beginning of wrestling. You watch Bobby Heenan and Gorilla Monsoon do commentary, and most of the match Heenan is bitching about something other than the current match that is taking place. King and Michael Cole today do that. NXT comes out and does something, and during the next match the situation gets brought back up and they discuss it for a bit. It's how professional wrestling has always been.

    But what evidence do you have that she even has a big ego to begin with? What has she done besides one little interview that makes you believe this? Are there any reports out there that state backstage she's shown herself as conceited and only looking out for herself? If so, please share them.

    But professional wrestling is about the hoopla. You want things to BUILD in this business. You want your audience to anticipate and to keep watching the program. And that's exactly what TNA does whenever Dixie is there to announce something big. I see nothing wrong with it.

    Then every president of every company is guilty of the exact same thing. Not just in professional wrestling, but in companies all over the World.

    Dude, come on. Is that really your best argument here? That just because she doesn't announce a mid-carder has been signed that she's an egomaniac and doesn't care about her employees? Don't you see how ridiculous that sounds, man?
     
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  6. Megatron

    Megatron Justin Verlander > You

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    You mean back in 2008 when she wasn't shown to the crowd? They're about the same as they are now.

    But who was begging for her to come on screen? Nobody.

    The shoot interview, which would allow smarks to try and question her about the state of the company. And, with her ego she pissed off Nielson because she urged them to watch Impact to get their ratings up, thinking there wouldn't be any problems. And then her ego was big enough to think she really could compete with RAW after having one Impact that drew higher numbers then normal. And we know how that went.

    Link for Nielson article here.

    She's getting her name out to the public and allowing for public scrutiny. If people notice that TNA is doing poor (which they are) she'll be the one to catch blame even though she isn't a main part of the booking committee.

    He wasn't the one that owned the company, though. And I'm sure he didn't allow a bunch of smarks as him questions on how the company is going.

    Yeah, it's a shoot, but Costas isn't a smarky-fan that's gonna ask him questions about ratings and such, while members on the IWC certainly will.

    He did in the past, but Vince hasn't announced every big signing that the WWE got.

    What about the Impact episode that she announced all of the ECW guys returning a few weeks ago. I'm pretty sure she appeared more then once backstage hugging her wrestlers, which could've been used as a promo video/interview.

    Her pissing off Nielson thinking she wouldn't have any reprocussions; The ego that she could actually compete with the WWE after one show, which was 3 hours and heavily promoted, regularly on Monday's. You might say it's confidence in her company, but it's showing an ego that she'd throw her lesser known company into the deep waters without getting more viewership on Thursday's first.

    She's not harming anything, but what's the gain of her getting shown walking around hugging wrestlers before every commercial?

    What's Bischoff's use on screen, then? He's been made as the GM of sorts, with an assistant even, yet Dixie's making the big announcements. What's the gain of having Eric as an on screen authority figure if Dixie's making the major announcements?

    And like I said, it's not a specific worker, but she's taking time off that could be used to promote something - something that could be made useful for TNA.

    Over the past five years, what big signing has Vince announced? Aside from Hart coming back, Vince has stayed in the background in the announcements and let the GM's do it. Which is what Bischoff should be doing for TNA. Otherwise he doesn't have much worth.

    Why the need for her coming in small segments before every commercial breaks? A little 5 second graphic could do the same thing and save them time.

    You really never see Vince make a grand ole announcement over every free agent he signs, though. He doesn't put any worker down that way, no matter who they are. However Dixie comes out with her 'Big Announcements' bury the guys, while unintentional.
    He wouldn't have had to said he had an alliance with them, he could've simply said 'Dixie thought it was a great idea... blah blah blah' and it would've been fine. All she did was announce the ECW guys anyways, so what was their gain with that?
    How many big announcements, besides Bret's (who he's had a history with), has Vince had over the past 5 years? Not very many. Dixie, however, seems to want to make it known whenever she signs an ex WWE guy.

    Over the past five years, the Bret return and commercial free shows are the only ones that come to mind.

    I'm not saying it does anything more, but what's impact gain by having Dixie show up and announce something. You say it add's credibility and makes it look 'real' but Vince has, for the most part, stayed away from these announcements recently. And then you wouldn't take up screen time that could be used to promote their upcoming PPV.

    How often do the ratings increase when people know Dixie is gonna have a big announcement? Not often, I'm sure. And her announcements aren't gonna raise buyrates either.

    Dixie does have an ego. While it's not a 'this company is dead without me' ego, it's an ego where 'we can compete as the top wrestling company' even though the company is still young and isn't close to being competitive with the WWE's programming, except maybe NXT. Yeah, it shows confidence, but it also shows out her stupidity.
     
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  7. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    When Jim Cornette, Larry Zbyszko, and Dusty Rhodes were on-air authority figures, the ratings and pay-per-view buys were much, much worse than they are today. And it was well before 2008.

    I didn't say anyone was begging her to come on screen... I'm asking you where are all these complaints you're using as a way to describe why her having an on-screen role is such a bad thing?

    How is that ego related? She's trying to help her company.

    How do you know it wasn't Bischoff and Hogan who just convinced her to go against Raw on Mondays? She just believes in her employees... ego had nothing to do with it I'm sure.

    Okay, but that's apart of being a LEADER, which is what our debate is all about. She'll gladly take the blame for TNA's failures, since it is her company. She's being a leader.

    But he was still the booker, which is just as important.

    Actually, Cornette has done a YouShoot where fans were able to ask him questions. He's done plenty of public Q&A's as well.

    Who cares, man? A shoot's a shoot.

    Just because Dixie is more fan friendlier than Vince doesn't make her any less of a leader of her company. In my opinion it makes her more of a leader. She runs from nothing, and that includes difficult questions from TNA's fanbase.

    Neither has Dixie.

    What about it? This was all promotion for the ECW guys and Hardcore Justice, not about her. What's the big deal?

    Even though I don't think ego has anything to do with this, let's say your right... what in the World does this attribute to her being on television? You mean, you actually believe just because she has a tiny role on television that all of the sudden she got an ego to "challenge" something like Nielson? That doesn't make any sense, man.

    Again, how do you know she wasn't pressured by Hogan and Bischoff to do this?

    She made a couple of bad business decisions, sure, but I don't think ego had anything to do with it.. just more stupidity than anything else. But I wouldn't attribute it to ego or the fact it all happened because she got a tiny role on Impact.

    1. That's an exaggeration.

    2. Her character is one that deeply cares for TNA and its employees and fans. There's no harm in showing her actually interact with a couple of them and tell them "Good job" every now and then during the show.

    Because Bischoff is valuable as a character, period. Whether it's a GM, or just playing a major part in certain storylines like he is now with Hogan, Jarrett, and Nash.

    Moreover, Bischoff makes matches and runs Impact... he's not in control of TNA. He's not the person who "signs" people... Dixie is, so it only makes sense that she be the one to announce things like that, since she put it together in the first place.

    Yeah, but whenever she's on-screen, TNA is promoting something, such as the ECW guys recently. The last two times Dixie was on Impact, it was all about the ECW guys, not her.

    But what big announcements has WWE had that didn't include Vince? Vince does the big announcements, such as Hart returning, Raw to have a guest host each week, etc.

    Dude, that's an exaggeration and you know it. And the times they do show her, it's only to promote her big announcement so people keep watching.

    Who was the last big free agent he signed, exactly?

    But Dixie's not putting anybody down. By your logic, since Vince wanted to be behind NXT, he was basically burying every other wrestler on the roster because he wanted to promote them over everyone else. Don't you see how silly that sounds?

    There needed to be a logical excuse as to why they were in the building in the first place, and Dixie being the one who said she invited them made the most sense, since Bischoff would have never invited ECW guys to his show.

    How many big announcements has WWE had over the past 5 years to begin with?

    Dude, you act like this happens often... it doesn't.

    Raw having a guest host.. Vince announced that with Trump. Speaking of Trump, Vince announced he was coming to WWE. And there have been plenty of little moments like that. But WWE doesn't play up "big" signings or even announcements (outside of "big" matches), because they hardly ever have any to hype up.

    Yeah, the ratings stay consistent, so they're at least keeping what audience they have. I guarantee you'll never see ratings decline DURING the show while they're hyping a big Dixie Carter announcement. Never.

    Dude, if she was like that, then she would have been tried to take on WWE, but it wasn't until Hogan and Bischoff came along where TNA got that sort of mind-set. That tells me that Hogan and Bischoff had an influence over Dixie in that way, especially since that's how Hogan and Bischoff were in WCW.
     
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  8. Megatron

    Megatron Justin Verlander > You

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    Really?


    I wasn't saying that. I was saying that there was no demand for Dixie to come on the screen.
    She threw her own company over the deep end by competing against the WWE and, as a result, got their shitty numbers. She had an ego in thinking that they could actually compete with the WWE when they had one show on the same night and they drew about half of the viewers.

     
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  9. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    TNA doesn't release their pay-per-view buys to the public... so those numbers were fabricated.

    And I never said there was one, and that's exactly what you were saying. Here's the quote:

    To say this implies that people are complaining that she now has a role on television... please tell me, who exactly is complaining?

    She made a mistake, sure, but there's nothing you can say that could convince me, or anyone else for that matter, that her "ego" was the reason she made that mistake.

    I agree, and as a leader of the company she made a mistake by taking their word that they were ready. However, again... that's not an "ego," that's putting too much faith in the wrong people.

    But being a booker is just as important as being an owner, no? A booker makes just as many decisions as an owner when it comes to the overall product.

    Nobody would have taken the angle seriously if it was Hogan who announced them. You're pretty young, so I'm not sure if you were able to ever watch old, original ECW shows, but those guys and their fans were VERY anti-Hogan. Seriously, dozens of promos were cut on Hogan by guys like Shane Douglas and Taz. It would have made no sense for them to ever interact with him.

    Again, how is it ego? I'll give you stupidity, but what's egotistical about that?

    Exactly, and ego played no part in them, which is what I'm expressing.

    But it was to hype up the announcement, and none of those "segments" (it's not even fair to call them that) were longer than 30 seconds. 4 30 second segments equals 2 minutes... where's the harm in taking 2 minutes to promote a huge announcement?

    It wasn't about "gain" for the company; it was about having the angle make a bit of sense, and using Dixie was the best way to do that.

    2 things, wow.

    And you want to talk about ego, what happened when ECW returned? Not even a year later Vince McMahon was champion of the brand. THAT'S an ego

    If Hogan's going to be apart of the storyline, then sure... but if he's not going to have anything to do with the wrestler, why should he waste his time putting the guy over?

    Christian made his debut as a jobber on ECW.

    These were people returning to the company, not WWE making big signings.

    Superstars is a throwaway show basically, ECW isn't even around anymore (and when it was Vince took over the brand as the champion, so that makes this null and void anyway), and Vince has announced WWE Drafts before. Not all of them, but then again... at this point they're not as big of a deal anymore.

    2 shows that were shat on for the most part, and resignings... these are not good examples, man. I give you credit for trying, but the sad fact is, WWE doesn't sign "big names" often, and they don't make many "big" announcements often, either.

    Meh, not all the time. Still though, it's common sense that you play up a big announcement in professional wrestling as much as you can.

    I know, but her decisions are obviously being influenced by OTHER egos, not her own.
     
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  10. Megatron

    Megatron Justin Verlander > You

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    I don't think you get what I was trying to say. I was saying there wasn't a bunch of fans going: 'Why isn't Dixie Carter showing up on the show more often?' when she wasn't appearing on TV. They may or may not be complaining now, I wouldn't be entirely sure.

    She puffed out her chest and thought that since they had 1 higher drawing show then normal, which was heavily promoted, that they could compete with the WWE on their flagship show. There's different types of egos. But if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and acts like a duck, its a duck. And it looked like she had an ego in thinking that TNA actually could compete with the WWE on Monday nights.

    The booker has nothing to do with business decisions, though, as far as I know. Unless they have a special incentive/power added to the booker part.

    But this was in Florida at the Impact studios, not in Philly or at a bingo hall. People love Hulk at the Impact zone and it would've been a grand reaction and a great sign of approval. And besides, it's TNA, it's not like logic is their strong suit. ;)

    She thought that she could say something as dumb as that without any repercussions. Like she had a protective shield around herself.

    How about they promote their PPV that a whole lot of people (including on here) didn't even know when it was occuring. A promotional video, something.

    Again, TNA isn't the most logical company in the first place, so what's the harm in having the BIGGEST FIGURE IN PRO WRESTLING HISTORY back you up?

    That's off the top of my head in teh past 5 years.

    I never denied that Vince didn't have an ego. But, there are different types of egos.

    Because it'd give the angle some needed credibility. And HOgan has said that he wants TNA to become a national power and promoting a big angle like this would certainly have helped. Especially since he's only trying to recreate an old feud with Nash and Sting atm.

    Doesn't change the fact that he was a NWA Heavyweight Champion for TNA and was a decent name. And he wasn't a jobber, iirc. Didn't he wrestle in the ME and win the title in only a few months then have the longest reign as champion?

    They're still big names that had been absent for an extended period of time. And Bret was the same way, a re signing, but he got an announcement, so how doesn't it count?

    They (draft shows) still get some of the highest ratings for the WWE in the year. And they've lately just been putting announcements on WWE.com months in advance to add build to it. Which is how it should be done.

    Jericho and Big Show were free agents and could've easily jumped back over to TNA. And they are both former world champions, so who cares if they were resignings? Still big names and are upper midcarders (at worst) right now.

    And these are from the past 5 years off the top of my head. And I didn't feel like listing every single thing that the WWE's done over the past 5 years.

    She's still making the final decision, influence or not. And it's not like Dixie was shooting down any of the ideas Bischoff and Hogan brought to them, like thinking that they could compete with the WWE's flagship show.
     
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  11. Phoenix

    Phoenix WZCW's First Triple Crown Champion

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    Clarity of debate: jmt225
    Great opening and managed to stay on course, felt like Papa strayed off a couple of times.

    Punctuality: Papa
    jmt took longer to reply than Papa did.

    Informative: Draw
    Equal amount of information was given but nothing was ventured further than the discussion of theories without backing them up with proof.

    Persuasion: jmt225
    jmt's consistency on top of the newer elements he kept bringing into his posts made me start to sway about Dixie. While I felt her on screen actions did affect her leadership, jmt made me think otherwise. Papa just seem to be repeating points as jmt had him backed up.

    Final Score:
    Papa Grande: 1.5
    jmt225: 3.5
     
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  12. CH David

    CH David A Jock That Loves Pepsi

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    Clarity: Fantastic opener by JMT and he kept the ball rolling. Papa was good, but I felt he kinda wandered.

    Point: jmt225

    Punctuation: JMT was late twice, once by seven minutes, and once by 2 1/2 hours.

    Point: Papa Grande

    Informative: I have to agree with Phoenix on this one. Information kind of topped out in this on an equal footing. Nothing particularly new information-wise came towards the end.

    Point: Split

    Persuasion: While I say that information kind of topped out and stopped being new, JMT brought up new points at the right times. Dixie's being on tv doesn't hurt her backstage, as she is only on for a quick segment, or they pan to her for a reaction shot. She is into her product, the fans should see that. Kudos to her and JMT for these points.

    Points: jmt225

    CH David scores this jmt225 3.5, Papa Grande 1.5
     
    #12
  13. BooCocky

    BooCocky On A Nature walk with Daniel Bryan

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    Clarity- JMT225, he had a great OP and stayed on course. Papa Grande decided to go and wander and he never really found the track.

    Point- JMT225

    Punctuality- JMT225 was late. Point goes to Papa Grande

    Point- Papa Grande

    Informative- I believe JMT225 brought up more information. And he brought up valid information. Even though both weren't really informative I believe Jmt brought up a little more.

    Point- JMT225

    Persuasion- JMT brought more information and it was enough to persuade me. I believe he took the extra step. Therefore he gets the deuce.

    Points- JMT225

    Final Tally
    JMT225-4
    Papa Grande- 1
     
    #13
  14. Cena's Little Helper

    Cena's Little Helper Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Clarity of debate: jmt225
    Good opening, yadda yadda yadda, the lobster bisque was good.

    Punctuality: Papa Roach
    Papa Roach FTMFW!

    Informative:Papa Roach
    Papa Roach knows how to research well. Given his encyclopedic knowledge on baseball stats, I wouldn't expect anything less than tons and tons evidence from this guy.

    Persuasion: jmt225
    I wasn't sure what the question was asking in the first place, but jmt225 made me proud of my Dixie avatar when I read his posts. So, he gets all the points here.

    Final Score:
    Papa Roach: 2
    jmt225: 3
     
    #14
  15. Phoenix

    Phoenix WZCW's First Triple Crown Champion

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    After a complete judge's tally, jmt225 is the victor on 14 points to Papa Grande's 6.

    Congratulations and great debating from the both of you!
     
    #15
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