Rebooking Survivor Series 1997

Discussion in 'The Wrestling Archives' started by MMK, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. MMK

    MMK Getting Noticed By Management

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    This thread is all about the infamous Montreal Screwjob and how to avoid it. Although I don't believe either Vince nor Shawn wanted to avoid it, as I feel the intent was to damage the Hitman character so that his stock was as low as possible heading into WCW, but that being said there are ways it could have been avoided.

    For starters, the easiest way to avoid the whole thing would have been to simply have Taker retain the title at Summerslam and drop it to Shawn at the Hell In A Cell who could then defend it against Bret at Survivor Series. I'm not sure why Vince put the belt on Bret in the first place considering everything that was swirling around him at the time, but regardless of why the belt was on Bret it was and something has to be done.

    First option, and the most obvious, would be to have Bret defend the title against someone other than Shawn. The most logical choice being the jUndertaker who was still owed a rematch against Bret stemming from Summerslam. But that wouldn't work because Taker was selling the attack he suffered at the hands of a debuting Kane a few weeks prior at Badd Blood. So Taker is out.

    Austin won't work either because they need to save his first title win for Wrestlemania.

    Ken Shamrock would have been a terrific choice. A submission wrestler much like Bret and they did tease something between the two back at Wrestlemania when Bret initially turned heel. Shamrock was the special referee during the famous Bret/Austin match that year. The match could be billed as an I Quit match and the finish would see Bret tapping out to the new submission master of the WWF Ken Shamrock. Shamrock faced Micheals just a month later at the December PPV "d-generation X" so he would make for an ideal transitional champion. Beat Bret in November, then drop it to Shawn in December.

    Only problem is then we're deprived of the great rivalry between Bret and Shawn. The feud was terrific and led to many a classic moment on RAW IS WAR. So even though the Shamrock solution works, it wouldn't be nearly as interesting or compelling as the real life feud between Shawn and Bret.

    But I think there is a way to still have the Bret/Shawn Survivor Series confrontation while also avoiding the screwjob. And here's how...

    At Survivor Series instead of Bret vs Shawn, we have a traditional Survivor Series elimination match main event featuring The Hart Foundation vs D-Generation X. Bret, Owen, Bulldog, Anvil VS Shawn, Hunter, Billy Gunn and Roaddog. The stipulation though is that all title's are on the line. Bret's WWF Title, Owen's IC title, and Shawn's European Title. Rules are fairly simple. If at any point a champion is pinned by any one on the other team then not only are they eliminated but they also lose their title. The man who pins them is now temporarily the new champion. He can only hold on to the title however if he goes on to survive. If he too is eliminated then he too would drop the title. Sort of similar to the Championship Scramble matches they had a few years back.

    It comes down to Bret & Owen vs Shawn & Hunter. Bret eliminates Hunter via the sharpshooter, leaving just the three champions meaning no titles have changed hands yet. Shawn is beaten and bloodied in a two on one beatdown at the hands of the Hart Brothers for a good ten minutes. Shawn has nothing left in the tank and it is only a formality at this point. Bret mercifully locks in the sharpshooter and waits for Shawn to tap. But just then Owen smashes Bret across the face with a steel chair. The crowd is stunned. Bret and Shawn are both out cold. Earl Hebnor doesn't know what to do as Owen can't be disqualified because Bret is his own teammate. There is nothing in the rules about shooting yourself in the foot. Owen lays Shawn on top of Bret and the ref counts 3. Shawn is temporarily the new champion. Owen tosses Bret's limp body out of the ring and then proceeds to kick the crap out of an exhausted Shawn Micheals. Owen locks in the sharpshooter and Shawn taps thus making Owen, not only the new WWF Champion but also the new WWF European Champion as well as defending Intercontinental Champion. He is the first man to hold all 3 singles championships at the same time and is the sole survivor, not only of the match, but of the now clearly disbanded Hart Foundation.

    The next night on RAW Vince McMahon proudly introduces the new WWF Champion: Owen Hart! Owen brags about finally ridding the WWF of his brother and how he doesn't need his family any more. "These (pointing to his 3 titles) are the only 3 brothers I need from now on. Who needs three brothers watching your back when you've got 3 championships around your waist?"

    Vince, Sgt.Slaughter and the rest of the corporate stooges applaud Owen and raise his arms. Owen has betrayed his own family and joined the McMahon corporate family. Owen's new character is that of an ultra-virtuous yet totally disingenuous babyface-heel. An authority suckup. Similar to an early Kurt Angle. But it is also similar to the more recent storyline of Seth Rollins betraying his Shield brothers and joining the Authority. Owen has not only solved Vince's Bret problem but he is also the perfect counter to the rebellious and raunchy hellraisers that have been causing Vince and company so many problems as of late. From Steve Austin stunning every authority figure in sight, to D-X's obnoxious and lewd acts, Vince has had enough and has hand chosen a champion he can trust. And his name is Owen Hart.

    Unlike other superstars who have held multiple titles at the same time, Owen does not vacate the two lesser titles. He is going to attempt to hold and defend all 3 titles at once.

    At the next ppv Owen will defend the WWF Title against Shawn but before then he defends the European title against Hunter on an episode of RAW that is also the go home show to the ppv. Shawn interferes and costs Owen the title meaning Owen is now down to just two titles. At In Your House D-Generation X Shawn defeats Owen to become the new WWF Champion. Owen is still Intercontinental Champion however, the title he'd held since Summerslam. Owen gets a rematch against Shawn at the Royal Rumble naturally, but comes up short once again.

    Shawn actually faced Undertaker at The Rumble that year. That was the match where Shawn screwed up his back when he was backdropped onto Taker's casket outside the ring. After defeating Owen a second time, Shawn then faces Undertaker at No Way Out in February and retains thanks to Kane's interference. After that it is on to Mania where Shawn drops the title to Austin, Taker faces Kane, and Owen meets Helmsley in a title for title IC/Eurpoean unification match. Also, if Shawn avoids facing Taker at the Rumble that year perhaps his career is never shortened the way it was.

    _________________________

    I feel Owen winning at Survivor Series is the perfect compromise for all parties involved. We still get the heated rivalry between Shawn and Bret during the fall of 97, Bret dominates Shawn for the majority of the match, Shawn eliminates Bret, and Bret drops the belt but even though he's pinned by Shawn in reality it's not to put Shawn over it's to put his brother Owen over for the biggest night of his career. And while Owen's reign wouldn't last long, neither did the first title reigns of The Undertaker, Kane or Chris Jericho but it didn't hurt their careers in the end.

    In fact Owen would have, and should have, been the perfect opponent for Steve Austin in his first title defense post Wrestlemania. After all Owen was the man who put Austin on the shelf months earlier and he is Vince's right hand man every since Survivor Series when he betrayed his own brother.

    I feel this change to Owens character, a precursor to Kurt Angle, would have been enough to keep him in the main event picture for a few years and avoid the Blue Blazer gimmick altogether. Owen would have been the earliest member of the Corporation. In fact he would have been the only member for the better part of a year until The Rock joins and the stable really kicks in to high gear.
     
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  2. King502

    King502 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Yeah without the screw job
     
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  3. The Fabulous Rougeau's

    The Fabulous Rougeau's Championship Contender

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    I like your idea for the main event of Survivor Series 97. It really is a great way to keep the Bret/Sawn storyline while getting the title off of Bret. I wouldn't even mind taking it a step further and have Owen hold the title until Mania where he would drop it to Austin to complete there story. This would also give the WWE the luxury of holding Austin out until the Rumble which would only help his situation. The biggest roadblock though would be keeping Shawn happy since he would be without the title.
     
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  4. justinept

    justinept Championship Contender

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    If the purpose of the screw job was to destroy the Hitman character, then they screwed up royally. The truth is that the reality of what transpired made Hart white-hot heading into WCW. The failure to capitalize on that momentum is entirely on Hart (due to his bitterness) and WCW (due to their incompetence.) But really, the WWF did everything in their power to make people have to watch Nitro for Hart's debut.

    But I digress...

    Ya know what - No. I don't. Seriously. The fans are pissed at Vince for what happened. They're just as pissed at Michaels for his perceived involvement. People want to see Hart get his retribution, but he can't get it directly since he no longer works for the company. Instead, he's heading to WCW where Michaels THREE BEST FRIENDS ARE EMPLOYED - Nash, Hall, Waltman. WCW had a ready-made angle wherein Hart could've kept his feud with Michaels alive by systematically taking out his friends. AAAAAAAH. I hate how stupid WCW was... Instead, Hart feuded with the NWO B-team before actually joining the group. What an f'ing joke.

    Anyway - This whole thing really got me thinking how much the MITB would've been had it existed at this point in time. You'd still get the Hart/Michaels match that people were desperate to see... Hart could've gotten his retribution on Michaels, just as he wanted. And then someone like Shamrock could've simply cashed-in after the match and defeated Hart. This would've led right into the next pay-per view where Michaels/Shamrock fought for the WWE Title, and nothing short of delaying Michaels title win by a month needed to be changed.

    Oh - the what ifs...
     
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  5. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    First of all this is pure fantasy because there is no way in hell Shawn was tapping out to ANYONE especially a Hart and on a PPV!! No way no how. The fact that Shawn and Hunter were on the booking committee at the time pretty much cemented the fact that Shawn was not going job to anyone. He might take a beating like Hell in a Cell but he's not tapping. Plus Shawn was the top heel at the time, it wouldn't make sense for Shawn to get sympathy heading into WrestleMania.

    It was all about Bret and Shawn at this point. I truly believe when you say Vince, Shawn, HHH, were hell bent on ruining the Hitman character on his way out. Vince felt betrayed and we all know how Shawn and HHH felt. Vince WANTED confrontation, he WANTED controversy, that was the only way he was going to win his war against WCW. Like you said, he could've EASILY had Bret drop it at ANY TIME between SummerSlam and Survivor Series. Heck, even AFTER Survivor Series because Bret's contract wasn't up until Dec. (I believe)

    He wanted Hitman to do the job clean at SS in a "passing of the torch" moment (Bret had the man in the early - mid 90's) and now Shawn was going to take the ball (for the second time this time as a heel).

    I believe Vince took Bret playing hardball with him personal and wanted to make an example out of Bret. What would've happened if Vince gave in to Bret? It would be anarchy. No one would respect VKM. If Hogan has to lay down on his way out I'm sure McMahon felt Bret MUST lay down also.
     
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  6. Jeff Deliverer of Mail

    Jeff Deliverer of Mail Money for nothin, chicks for free
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    I have to agree with Makaveli here, as good as the OPs extremely creative idea is...you have to take in the massive three headed ego monster into account here. Head one : Vince McMahon, his pride is already hurt because Hitman is leaving, now he's not going to have control at this important PPV over HBK or Hitman ? EFF that...you have to go with the biggest draw if a giant draw is leaving....you have to go with HBK.

    Head two : You have The Hitman himself, he's already committed to WCW by signing on , so what makes him think he has ANY pull left at all ? Hell, Vince could've made it a bra and panties match at Survivor Series with a No Hitman Winning stipulation. Its Vince's design , its his company's belt, no matter who's hometown your in. So Hitman , even though Owen Hart ends up with all the belts...might even have a problem with it because of his own blindness...he took it too literally and didn't see the business side of anything.

    Head three : HBK...the only draw you have left ...no disrespect to Owen Hart but Vince might have panicked a little when Hitman told him he was leaving. HBK apparently was also an egomaniac who battled demons and wouldn't go for the OPs idea.
     
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  7. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    A couple things I found VERY interesting about the "Screwjob".

    1) It has been stated by people in the know and in Vince's inner circle at the time i.e. Bruce Pritchard, Cornette, and even Vince Russo that had Madusa never dropped the Women's title in the trash live on Nitro the Screwjob never would've happened.

    Vince's biggest fear was another one of his champions being "bought" by Eric Bischoff (hell it wasn't his money) and going on Nitro and dropping another WWF belt in the trash and there is no strap was bigger than the WWF belt. IF the WWF belt was ever dropped in the trash live on Nitro, Vince would've been done. Close the curtains. There is no coming back from that and it has been stated that he would do WHATEVER it took to keep that from happening. Hence the screwjob.

    2) I think Vince's trust in Bret was never the same after the initial WCW overtures in 1996. Bret basically held Vince up for more money the same way Hall and Nash tried to do except Vince HAD to re-sign Bret. I think he took it personal that Bret used those hardball tactics, eventhough he was well within his rights as a free agent at the time, when Vince was having financial problems. I think he held a grudge and never intended on using Bret the way he sold it to him. Giving him one last run as Champion then having him retire as the "Babe Ruth" of the WWF.

    The proof is in the pudding. He bascially destroyed the Hitman character in a year. He turned him heel (first time in Bret's career, and an anti-American heel at that) then suddenly turned off his heat just as it was building and gave it to Shawn.
     
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  8. shooter_mcgavin

    shooter_mcgavin Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    I don't buy that one bit. Throwing the belt in the garbage just meant the WWF would need a new tournament to crown a new champion. Nothing really to it. I mean Ric Flair went to the WWF with the NWA Championship and WCW was still around for almost another 10 years.

    Besides if throwing the garbage possibly meant symbiotically diluting the importance of the WWF title the same could be said about the screwjob doing the same thing. The way the screw job happened really hurt the prestige and importance of the WWF title and that also could have hurt the company (heck I have been on record saying the screw job was worse than the finger poke of doom). Yet WWF recovered from that so I see no reason why WWF could recover Bret Hart throwing the title in the garbage, if he actually was going to that at all.
     
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  9. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    Whoa!! Hold on! You don't think having the current WWF Champion SHOW UP on WCW Nitro and dump THE WWF Championship belt (held by Bruno, held by Backlund, held by Superstar Billy Graham, Hogan, Savage etc....) in the trash wouldn't be a death blow to Vince and the WWF? Are you crazy?

    First of all, the lineage would be broken. So what if you have a tournament, the guy who dumped the belt in the trash would always be recognized as the WWF Champion because no one ever beat him in the ring. I think it would've destroyed Vince personally and professionally. It would've been a huge for Bischoff and WCW and humiliated Vince and WWF. I don't think they could've ever recovered.

    Second, the NWA was dead by the time Flair went to the WWF with the belt. Crockett was the last of territories and was sold to Turner in 1988 so the NWA didn't really exist. WCW leased the NWA's title belt. Plus, no one cared about WCW back then anyway. They were second rate to the WWF BY FAR.

    The WCW Champion appearing on WWF TV was no big deal because they didn't even register at the time. WCW was still very much a regional promotion in 1991. It sure as heck wasn't the Monday Night Wars.

    Third, yes initially it might've hurt the prestige and importance but the fact is Bret lost the title to Shawn. No matter how you slice it. It was launching point for Vince McMahon as the ruthless owner, screwing people out of titles and title shots. Vince was in control not Bret or Eric Bischoff. Big difference. McMahon was the heel. If Bret had thrown it in the trash, Bischoff's stock would've SOARED. It would've been HUGE for Bischoff and WCW NOT Vince and the WWF.

    They would be humiliated. Seriously, how could you let the most prestigious title in the company end up on the competitor's TV and not only that but has it desecrated on live TV. No way was Vince taking that chance.
     
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  10. shooter_mcgavin

    shooter_mcgavin Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    The WWF title has been vacated before and it's not like the championship was hurt because the lineage broke before and after. Would throwing the WWF title boost WCW and hurt WWF? In the short term sure but an angle is just an angle. You just need another angle to make people move on from the previous one.

    And yet WCW lasted for years after. WWF at the time was the #2 company and I am pretty sure it would not have killed the WWF.

    It made WWF opportunistic at the moment and the Montreal screwjob could have easily crippled WWF to the point of no recovery. That was a hyped PPV title match and the way it ended cheated many fans who paid for the PPV for a classic Bret vs. Shawn Michaels match. Whose to say WWF couldn't find an opportunity for the WWF to turn Bret defecting the title into an angle?

    I guess my point is Vince could have taken a chance to trust Bret Hart in not bringing the title to WCW. Bret was loyal to the WWF and it was only because of WWF's financial situation that caused Bret to jump to WCW.

    I am not saying Vince was right or wrong here and I understand the need to protect your assets the Montreal Screw Job was, by no means, the only option in the table.
     
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  11. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    Yes it was part of angle. Vince was in control of it. It wasn't shoot thrown in the trash on the competitor's TV show. Could you imagine Vince on RAW? "We have to make a tournament for a NEW WWF Champion because our current champion just threw OUR belt in the trash on our opponent's TV show. He would lose the locker room and lose all respect as a promoter. Vince is a proud man. He took on all the old regional promoters, Verne Gagne, Ole Anderson, Jim Crockett and came out on top. He took on a billionaire in Ted Turner, the feds, whomever, Vince never backed down and you think he was going to stand by and let some two-bit announcer like Eric Bischoff (who he fired by the way) throw the belt that represented his grandfather's company, his father's company, and HIS company in the trash?!? No friggin' way! He woulda shown up on Nitro his damn self and smacked Bischoff in the mouth on live TV before he would've let that happen. This would've been no angle. This would've been the WCW literally pissing on McMahon, his grandfather, and his dad and Vince ALLOWING it to happen. Who would want to carry the championship then? A belt that was dumped in the trash? The champion would ALWAYS look second rate just like the WCW Champion looked second rate when Flair left the company as champion and took the belt with him. The WCW fans didn't even respect WCW after that.

    Because of Ted Turner. Turner was only reason WCW existed to so long. If it wasn't for billionaire Ted' pockets WCW would've folder years ago. But I digress. WCW was never a "champion's comapany." Meaning their title just didn't have the prestige of the WWF title which can be traced back to the early' 1960's. WCW while keeping the NWA belt (only for look) was viewed as a relatively new company. They just didn't have the history and linage of the WWF and it's titles. The WWF's main storylines revolved around it's champion. Hogan carried it for so many years, then Mach, then Warrior, etc....it's one of the reason's Vince kept a babyface champion rather than a heel champion because he KNEW how much the WWF title represented and what it meant. he WWF Champion was and is the FACE of the WWF. It was and is taken VERY seriously hence the passing of the torch. You don't hear of "passing of the torch" moments in WCW. Hogan was allowed to virtually crap on the WCW title for a year. Spray painting, never defending it etc....Vince would've NEVER allowed that to happen to the WWF belt. So there is a BIG difference between the WWF title and WCW.
     
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  12. HBKperfect23

    HBKperfect23 Championship Contender

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    I think it was as booked as well is could have been. Although I am tempted to make the main event a traditional survivor series match since there was two strong factions and those matches separate survivor series from all other ppvs. I think they had to do Michaels/Bret for Brets last ppv. Too much buzz not to capitalize on it. Plus Michaels needed a strong win to be built as a hot heel going into mania to make it more special for austin.

    If I did book the main event as a traditional survivor series match it would be austin DX and the outlaws against the Harts. Austin would have problems with DX during the build to survivor series.
     
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  13. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    It easily could've crippled the WWF. Vince was taking a huge gamble in 1) Letting Bret go to WCW 2) The way he was going to do it. Remember, Vince almost lost the entire locker room before righting the ship. I think history has shown Vince made the right decision. In hindsight, could it have been avoided? Sure. But hindsight is 20/20. I don't think Vince wanted Bret going to WCW as a strong character. He needed Bret to put Shawn over for storyline purposes and because Bret was leaving. He was leaving! I think Vince felt that Bret playing hardball was a direct threat and I do think the Alundra Blayze incident had A LOT to do with Vince making the decision that Bret could NOT leave Montreal as champion. No matter what! He just couldn't take that risk. Like I said, both men's trust in each had been damaged at that point. Vince felt he could not trust Bret (Bret dealing with WCW in 1996) an Bret felt he could not trust Vince you add Shawn to that mix and we got the Screwjob.
     
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  14. BestSportsEntertainer

    BestSportsEntertainer I Don't Need No User Title

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    The Montreal Screwjob was good for pro wrestling. It created the evil authority figure and gave us Austin vs. Vince.
     
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  15. FromGlasgow

    FromGlasgow Championship Contender

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    I think they needed to have Bret against Shawn it was such a big rivalry at the time having Bret wrestle anyone else would just have been a let down and think they created the perfect scenario with the montreal screwjob, If it hadn't happened and Bret had of lost his title to someone like Shamrock or anyone else in my opinion I don't believe the WWE would be in business today as business was at such a low period during that time, The screwjob started the whole Mr Mcmahon character which was so instrumental in the whole Austin character then following into the attitude era it got more people watching and talking about it which I think at the time was a big save for the WWE.
     
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  16. comrade_mario

    comrade_mario Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Jesus, this again. Vince screwed Bret to prove to the locker room that he was still in charge. There was no danger of Bret going to WCW with the title after the Survivor Series for two very good reasons. First off, Bret was under contract for another four weeks after the Survivor Series and so couldn't leave after not dropping the title at SS because he would have been sued in to the ground. Second, and even more importantly, WCW was involved in a lawsuit with WWF at the time over what happened with Madusa and over presenting The Outsiders as WWF contracted invaders. Bischoff has stated on multiple occasions that Bret bringing the belt over was never even discussed or considered because of the lawsuit. It simply couldn't happen.

    Instead it happened because Bret had won a contract off Vince in 1996 that gave him the kind of deal Ventura wanted the locker room to unionise for back in the 1980s. Bret had a great financial offer, long term security and some creative control over his career, something no other wrestler ever had before. It vexed a guy like Vince and so hey presto he sends a message out to the likes of Undertaker, Austin, Foley and anyone else working for him that he's still the boss.
     
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  17. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    Bret had creative control over his last 30 days meaning he could do WHATEVER he wanted. He didn't even have show up for Survivor Series. Basically Bret held all the cards. He could either show up or he could sit at home until his contract ran out.

    Vince didn't know that. Eric had used every dirty trick in the book. Why wouldn't he use the dirtiest of them all? The coup d' grace. Eric wasn't the one being sued. He didn't care. Why wouldn't Eric throw an exorbitant amount of money at Bret (again, it wasn't his money) to have Bret show up and throw the belt in the trash? We all know now that it wasn't Eric's intention but at the time remember this was the peak of the Monday Night Wars. Anything goes. Shots were being fired on both sides. It was not out of the realm of possibility.

    Shawn's even mentions in his book that during the discussions on the finish of the match between Vince and the booking committee the incident was brought up by HHH. Now it was not the ONLY reason but it played a part in Vince's decision to screw Bret. For the first time Vince, had to deal with a competitor who would do anything and everything to humiliate Vince and the WWF.

    Yes as I have stated I believe that played a part. I agree Vince felt betrayed to a certain degree when Bret basically used his WCW offer against Vince to get a one-of-a-kind iron clad contract that included creative control. But again, it wasn't so much as Vince couldn't trust Bret and much as Vince wouldn't trust Bischoff. If Bret somehow left without having to put over Shawn and left without dropping the strap you don't think Eric would not use that fact to rub it in Vince's face?
     
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  18. MMK

    MMK Getting Noticed By Management

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    I really dont' think Shawn would garner any sympathy from this. The event was in Canada and most of the fans were bloodthirsty for Shawn to get his comeuppance. All you'd have to do is have Shawn come out on RAW and bitch and complain about his loss, then have someone like Austin interrupt him and tell him to shut up and stop crying. Any sympathy he may get would be squashed at that point.

    There have been some reports over the years that Shawn was not as unreasonable when it came to the finish of this match as some have speculated. I've read and heard that Shawn, Bret and Vince all agreed on a proposed finish but that Hunter got in Shawns ear and convinced him that there was no way he should agree to it. But that's all hearsay.

    I agree there's probably no chance of Shawn agreeing to tap out but he could do like Austin and bleed out. After the 2 on 1 bloody beatdown I would have him endure, he could simply pass out from blood loss. But if that's too repetitious then Owen could simply pin him. Even that would be hard to convince Shawn to go along with, but again he would still get to pin Bret 123 in my scenario so I think thats a pretty good compromise. Plus he would know that Owen is just a transitional champion and that he will be getting the title a few weeks later at IYH DX.

    I really don't see any holes in my proposed scenario. If the parties involved couldn't agree to this propsed finish then they're just a bunch of unreasonable brats. And that would go for everyone involved. There's really no reason for any of them to reject it.

    Even Vince has no reason. One might argue that he wants to damage Bret as much as possible and he needs Bret to lose clean but Hogan didnt lose clean in his last match when he was leaving, neither did Diesel. In fact, my scenario might actually damage Bret more. Because after the screwjob Bret became the talk of the wrestling world and it actually increased his stock heading into WCW meaning the screwjob should have backfired on Vince but due to WCW's ineptitude they were unable to capitalize on it as another poster on here pointed out. In my scenario Bret leaves as just another wrestler. No buz or controversy for WCW to use against Vince.

    I also never bought into the idea that Vince needed to do the screwjob because without it the Mr.McMahon character never would have taken off. That's just plain bullshit. Vince was stunned by Austin back in September 97, an obvious forerunner to their inevitable feud. And he'd been in alteractions with Bret as early as February 97. Mr.McMahon was already an on air character at this point.
     
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  19. HBKperfect23

    HBKperfect23 Championship Contender

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    Vince had every right to have whatever finish he desired for HIS company. Vinces concern is staying in business and competing with WCW, his concern is not, how can we make Bret look as good as possible before he goes to play for the other team. He wanted Shawn to be a red hot heel going in to mania against Austin and taking the belt off Bret in Canada is perfect for more heat. When talking about rebooking survivor series, there is no need to touch the main event: the right move was Shawn over Bret clean, and thats what we got.....kinda.

    And as far as Bret is concerned, it's a time honored tradition to go out on your back and he wouldn't do it....he refused. You put over who they tell you to put over. Everyone gives the kliq shit for not putting people over but look at the facts: Nash put over Taker/Michaels on his way out, Hall put over Goldust, Michaels put over Austin. Bret wouldn't put over Michaels in Montreal or anybody for that matter because he wanted to forfeit the title the next night. This isn't the first time Bret has done this either.

    I was a huge Bret mark his entire career. I always loved him as s performer but I don't get why he always gets a pass for his horrible attitude with us, the IWC.

    Back to the topic at hand: survivor series was a solid ppv and doesn't need much tweaking and rewriting. Yes, a DX anx Austin vs Harts traditional Match would have been awesome but with Bret leaving, everything needed to be done this way.
     
    #19
  20. comrade_mario

    comrade_mario Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    No he couldn't. He had reasonable creative control, meaning he could agree to storylines or not but it would have to be held up in court if he got sued. Vince also had to agree to how he exited as part of the deal. Sitting at home with the belt and refusing to go to work would get him sued. Simple as that.


    You don't think Vince and his lawyers knew that WCW lawyers wouldn't allow a piece of WWF property shown on screen as they were being sued (and were about to settle) for showing WWF property on WCW programming. C'mon, really?
     
    #20
  21. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    Maybe. But Vince wouldn't risk Bret no-showing the PPV. The whole year was built toward Bret vs. Shawn at Survivor Series and there was no way Vince was going to risk Bret no-showing. Vince's main priority has always been to the fans to give them the match as advertised. You're talking about a guy who paid Warrior half a million dollars to appear at SummerSlam '91. This was without the doubt the second biggest card of the year behind WrestleMania and it would set up next year's WrestleMania. Vince's top priority was getting Bret in that ring on that day. Suing was not an option just days before the PPV.

    Are Vince and his lawyers mind readers? Do they know what's going through Eric Bischoff's mind? Again, he wasn't one being sued so why should he care? It would have been just another lawsuit on top the ones they already have. It would've taken years to litigate the whole thing, when WCW went out of business the first cases weren't even settled yet. Hey, if he did once why wouldn't he do it again? Vince could not take that risk.
     
    #21
  22. comrade_mario

    comrade_mario Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    So what you just said was Vince had to screw Bret at Survivor Series because he couldn't sure if Bret would show up for Survivor Series. Brilliant.

    And Vince's lawyers don't have to be mind readers, they just have to be barely competent at their jobs and send WCW a reminder that if they see the WWF title on Nitro it would mean Ted Turner's ass.
     
    #22
  23. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

    Perception is reality. Bischoff didn't need the physical belt. All he needed was Bret, still as WWF Champion, signed and under contract with WCW. With Bret signed to a WCW contract, while still WWF Champion, in essence he "had the title" meaning he could go on Nitro had brag to the world that he had the WWF Champion signed, sealed, and delivered to WCW. The PERCEPTION being that the top guy in the WWF was headed to WCW. So the longer Bret kept the title AFTER Survivor Series the more opportunity Eric Bischoff had to hammer home the point that the WWF Champion was coming to WCW. So Vince had no recourse BUT to take the belt off of Bret at Survivor Series BEFORE world leaked out at Bret Hart had signed with WCW.
     
    #23
  24. King Patrick Star

    King Patrick Star K. O. T. R. 2007 -€“ Team Undisputed

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    I love the idea of changing the main event of Survivor Series 1997 to a four-on-four traditional Survivor Series Elimination tag team match. It’s a pretty interesting concept having 3 Championship Titles on the line.

    I would however change the participants and add the old school 80s style team names.

    The Heartbreakers – Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Stone Cold Steve Austin, and Mankind
    vs.
    The Hitmen – Bret The Hitman Hart, Owen Hart, Undertaker and Kane

    Doing it this way would cover a few things. This would cover the 3 singles matches that actually took place. This would also give Triple H a match on the card. The Brothers of Destruction storyline would continue at this PPV. The Austin / Foley team would be rekindled.
     
    #24

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