Rd. 2 Ironman - Shawn Michaels (USA) vs Rocky Maivia (SAM)

Discussion in 'Wrestlezolympics '10' started by IrishCanadian25, Feb 3, 2010.

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Shawn Michaels vs Rocky Maivia, 45-minute Ironman

  1. Shawn Michaels

  2. Rocky Maivia

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  1. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    Shawn Michaels (USA) vs Rocky Maivia (SAM)

    This is a second round Ironman Match in the 2010 Wrestlezolympics. As a second round match, the match will last 45 minutes, and the competitor with the most falls in that time will win. If the score is tied after 45 minutes, sudden death overtime will ensue following a 45-second rest period. First fall will win from there. This match is contested under otherwise normal rules - if a wrestler is disqualified or counted-out, they will lose a fall.

    The match will open for discussion on Wednesday, February 3rd, and voting will begin on Thursday, February 4th. This is a non-spam thread, so if you decide to post, you must provide reasons why you are backing a particular wrestler. You may vote without posting.
     
    #1
  2. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    With all the charisma and promo skills the Rock had, he could go in the ring. He's beaten every of the top superstars during the Attitude Era and had a very successful career. In his only iron man match, I believe he lost the match 5-6 but at least he scored pinfalls in regulation unlike HBK. The Rock can beat HBK with the People's Elbow or the Rock Bottom. He also uses the Sharpshooter and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets himself disqualified just to weaken HBK up. I'm going with the Rock for now but that may change.

    P.S. Don't forget during that 2000 Iron Man Match, HBK was the referee and the Undertaker return and subsequent beating of DX gave HHH the victory so I know Rocky hasn't forgotten and would unleash everything he has on HBK.
     
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  3. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    I can't count how many times The Rock has been in a match that he should have won, but instead blew it. I think in this match there would be a strong possibility of that happening again.

    When you look at The Rock, he's bigger than Michaels, stronger than Michaels, faster than Michaels, more athletic than Michaels, and has the crowd in the palm of his hands at all times. The guy's win-loss record should be much better than it is, because he has those advantages over probably 90% of his opponents, but while The Rock is extremely sharp and clever when it comes to making fun of people on a live microphone, that doesn't mean he's intelligent in a fight. And he's not, whereas Shawn Michaels is one of the toughest, smartest wrestlers throughout the history of WWE.

    Now, Michaels shouldn't have, and wouldn't have if people looked at things logically, beat Kobashi in the last round; however, this match is absolutely perfect for him. There would be such a high atmosphere in the air for this one, and that's when HBK is at his absolute best. The Rock would have plenty of chances to put HBK away, but instead of capitalizing on him while he's down and out, The Rock would play to the crowd, and that would eventually cost him because he would end up doing it at the wrong time and turn around to a Superkick that would knock him out cold. HBK would score the pinfall, and grind out the rest of the time period, winning the match 1-0.
     
    #3
    gd likes this.
  4. Mantaur Rodeo Clown

    Mantaur Rodeo Clown X-Pac Rules

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    I classify The Rock vs Hbk as one of the all time best matches never to happen in my opinion. I would have loved to watch these two go at it, but Shawn's sabbatical and The Rock's subsequent movie career nixed any chance of this happening.

    Regardless of whatever happened last round and moving forward with this round, I think Shawn Michaels has a good chance to take this one. It's not as if The Rock has not been in an Ironman match before, but we've seen Shawn in both 60 minute and half hour versions, as well as matches that have gone over the 45 minute time limit. I know it's like a broken record, but HBK did beat Cena in a match that went over an hour on an edition of Raw. There should be no one contesting his stamina.

    Whether The Rock goes the route of getting himself disqualified in order to batter HBk down with a weapon or something of the like is another issue, and he certainly isn't against it. However, HBK has made a career out of getting the shit beat out of him for most of a match before coming from behind to win, and I think this will be no different for the Heartbreak Kid.
     
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  5. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    Well, HBK took out Kobashi last round, which was quite the impressive feat. He'll have a ton of momentum coming into this one. In the meantime, Rock had an easy match against someone who I can't actually remember. I remember it being someone bad though, likely either Russia or NZL.

    jmt hit the nail on the head with his post. Rock has pretty much all of the athletic advantages, but HBK has the intagibles. In the realm of kayfabe, who has a bigger heart than HBK? He's went up against bigger men in the past and disposed of them with ease. I think he takes this fairly easily here.
     
    #5
  6. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    By the way the previous posts are looking, it seems like HBK is facing the Brookly Brawler. The Rock is no slouch and he will match Michaels move for move. To GD's statement about HBK about disposing of bigger men with ease, he has not. It took everything he had to beat Vader and remember those Undertaker matches. He really did dispose of him with ease, didn't he? I remember a whole lot of people helping him and when he didn't have it, he lost.

    The Rock has gone against Austin, Kane, Foley, Undertaker, HHH and beaten them all on numerous occasions. The Rock has been dominated most of the match plenty of times and still won. HBK has been in big matches before and lost them too. So with their past experience in iron man matches and what each guy brings to the table, I will vote for the Rock to win 3-2.
     
    #6
  7. Checkmate

    Checkmate .you.lose.

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    I'm completely torn on this one. On one side, there is HBK, one of the best ever. On the other, The Rock, one of the best ever. Thus, I'm torn.

    Athletically, The Rock is really well conditioned. Michaels really can go, but has had injuries, where the Rock really has kept a near perfect track record throughout his career. I'd give the slight edge to The Rock here, but that doesn't mean too much. After all, this is a timed match, and this could give the advantage to the smarter wrestler, not just the one in better shape.

    Another way I like to look at this is that both men are chronic losers. Both have pushed through feud after feud and been the overwhelming favorite, however, they would come up short (via screwjob, interference, etc.). Sure, both have enjoyed a great amount of success as World Champion, Intercontinental Champion, etc., but both CAN come up short when all the chips are in play. This is what makes the match so hard to decide for me, as neither man plays the "Superman" character that cannot lose.

    So, in my best opinion, this is how I'd think it to play out:

    The Rock would come out like a beast. He would definitely match Michaels move for move and possibly even outmaneuver him in the early going. I doubt however that this would lead to any quick falls, as both men have been known to kick out of almost anything. Through the mid-portion of the match, Michaels would get his second wind, while The Rock would start to slow. Again, I can see the typical HBK setup, all the way up to tuning up the band, but Rocky would likely just counter into a DDT or something.

    Still, to the end, I can't see either guy really beating the other. To argue the contrary, IF one guy were to beat the other early, I could easily see the other guy tying it up in the midsection of the match. Either way, score or no score, I think this one comes down to the wire, possibly even to OT. Here, I think I'd give the edge to HBK, and it is really difficult to say why. I think it may be my memory playing tricks on me; making me think that The Rock lost in this scenario more often than not. However, HBK has his share of losses in the bottom of the ninth as well.

    Perhaps I keep thinking back to the Ironman match of Michaels VS Hart, and Michaels' so-called "Nineteenth wind." Perhaps I keep thinking of the matches that The Rock lost, to the likes of Austin and Triple H. I think it is a bit unfair to compare Ironman match experience, as The Rock's was so littered with outside interference that I can't really say the result was fair. Either way, I think I'm going to hold my vote for now, and read into what others say. Perhaps I'll be swayed. Perhaps I won't vote on this one. Maybe I'll flip a coin, as I doubt either will run away with this one.
     
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  8. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    Very tough one. The Rock lost the only Iron man match he ever had, but he was definitely a bigger deal than Michaels in the day. I don't think these two ever faced off, and The Rock beat pretty much every opponent he had the first time he faced them. That being said, the arguable reason that he lost the following matches is that he was quite scoutable. That being said, I just think that he is pretty tough, and his offensive performance in an Iron Man match is a lot better than Michaels' so I'm going with Rocky, but it could have been different.
     
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  9. LascoX

    LascoX Pre-Show Stalwart

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    This one could go either way. Both are main event players who have won and lost on the grandest stage. Both have superior conditioning that suits well for a 45 min match. Both have versions of the sharpshooter as well as impact moves that will stun for a pin fall. Both have a ton of heart and guts to carry them threw a grueling match that would go back and forth for the 45 min duration. I'll go with the Rock for the win in sudden death OT due to him having a slight size advantage and the simple fact I like him better than Shawn. No disrespect to Shawn, he is the showstopper, This one is a coin toss and on my vote it goes to the Rock
     
    #9
  10. HBK-aholic

    HBK-aholic Shawn Michaels ❤

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    Why you should vote for The Icon Shawn Michaels.



    1. Shawn Michaels was built for this type of match
    Shawn Michaels, especially for his age, has an amzing rate of stamina. He's wrestled longer than 30 minutes more times than many people in the business, and even gone 45-60 minutes before; going on to win. Shawn, even as a 44 year old man can go with the best, and his style and stamina are things that have not decreased. His character now wrestles a different style to 20 years ago, yet both are tough, and interchangeable; he can use the one he thinks best whevever he needs to.

    The Rock, by comparison, is more of a flashy, strength wrestler. Shawn is known for being beaten and battered yet still going on to win. Strength is something that does not phase Shawn Michaels in the same way it bothers lesser wrestlers. He defeated Big Van Vader; simply looking at the difference between the 2 shows what a feat this was. No matter how much you beat down on Shawn, he never gives up and can find a way to go on to win. This is what would happen here.

    2. Shawn Michaels has won more Iron Man Matches

    I'm not usually one to refer to matches a person has won, however, the facts don't lie here. Shawn not only has more experience, he also lasted over an hour, and defeated Bret Hart; easily one of the best in the business. The Rock, by comparison, lost to Triple H. However, not to sound too harsh on The Rock, this was 5-5 until an interference. So we'll look logically at this. First, as many agree that Shawn Michaels is a better wrestler than Triple H, you can make an educated decision that Shawn could also defeat The Rock. Secondly, do you think that Shawn Michels would give away 5 pinfalls? Especially if he gave Bret Hart 0 in their match? Anyone who has followed Shawn's career like I have will know this is not his style.

    3. Shawn Michaels is smarter and more versatile than The Rock

    In the ring, when it comes down to it, Shawn can change his styles in a second to fit the situation he's in. Which other wrestler can be 'king of the ladder matches' and 'Mr. Wrestlemania', while also having some absolutely epic Hardcore/Unsanctioned matches? The Rock is a fantastic wrestler - but is he a match for Shawn Michaels? His moveset, while flashy, may not be smart enough to defeat Shawn in this situation where he's quite simply in his element.

    4. Shawn's use of submission is superior

    As we've seen, especially in recent years, Shawn has no qualms using any submission move. He was one of the first to use the Crippler Crossface after the death of Benoit, and has the strength to be able to work on The Rock in order to gain at least 1 submission count. He's used the Sharpshooter in high profile situations and also uses the Modified figure four leglock. While The Rock is no novice to submission moves, Shawn is the one with the upper hand here.
     
    #10
  11. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    I accidentally voted Rock when that shouldn't have been the case. Shawn Michaels would win this match and there's a simple reason why: Rock was bad in big match situations.

    I don't think anyone could argue that this isn't a dream match. I mean really, how could you say otherwise right? That being said and universally agreed upon, name one big match in Rock's career that he won. Lost to Austin at both Manias for the title, lost to HHH in the ladder match, lost to HHH in the Iron Man match. He won the third Austin match when there was no pressure. Let's take a look at Rock's world title wins.

    1st: vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 98. Mankind never submits and it's a Montreal ending.

    2nd: vs. Mankind, Royal Rumble 99. I Quit match, again Mankind never submits during the match and it's the recording of his voice talking.

    3rd: vs. Mankind, Raw. It's a ladder match and Mankind has it won when Big Show chokeslams Foley off the ladder.

    4th: vs. HHH, Backlash 2000. Austin makes the save and beats up HHH with a chair after he hits the Pedigree so Rock can steal the title again.

    5th: vs. HHH, Shane, Vince, KOTR 2000. Rock pins Vince to win HHH's title with help from kane and Taker.

    6th: vs. Kurt Angle, No Way Out 2001. Hey he won something! So what if Kurt was a glorified rookie!

    7th: vs. Angle and Undertaker, Vengeance 2003. Another time where he doesn't pin the champion and still gets the belt anyway.

    So let's recap: 7 titles, ONE instance of getting a clean pin or submission with no help. By comparison, Shawn's title wins: (note, all WWE Titles only for Rock)

    1st: vs. Bret Hart, Mania 12. Iron Man, you know the drill.

    2nd: vs. Sid, RR 97, gets it with the superkick.

    3rd: Survivor Series 97, ok that's a no brainer.

    4th: Elimination Chamber, pins HHH clean for the belt.

    Four wins and one not clean.

    See what I mean? Shawn comes through in the clutch. he was 1-1 in the ladder matches and 1-1 with Kurt. Rock won but he rarely won fairly, and in something like the Olympics, cheating isn't going to happen I wouldn't think.
     
    #11
  12. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    I'm going to have to call you out on this one. There ain't no way in hell that HBK has wrestled more thirty minute matches than anyone else. I only know of two or three HBK matches have gone over thirty minutes in the last six years. Back in the day Flair, Race, and Steamboat's matches would average 30 minutes. The Rock has had some pretty long matches himself and HBK has lost some of these "long matches" as you put it.



    Of course Shawn Michaels won't give up five pinfalls but believe me that he is going to give up some. The Rock has beaten many wrestlers who are on the same level as HBK shorter than 45 minutes. If I'm going to look at past experience of a match this length or more, HBK got 0 pinfalls in 45 minutes and I believe the Rock got 3 or 4. We can argue that HBK was facing Bret but HHH was at his best when he faced the Rock and Rock still got pinfalls off of him.[/QUOTE]



    You don't think the Rock can change styles to fit the situation he's in? The Rock can brawl with the best and he can wrestle technical styles with the best of them as he has proven against Angle, Benoit, and Austin. The Rock has the People's Elbow and the Rock Bottom that has put down better wrestlers than HBK and I will get to the Sharpshooter in just a minute.



    :lmao::lmao::lmao:
    Superior to who? The Great Khali or Mark Henry? Of course HBK uses submissions but he has won any match by submission besides Montreal? HBK is no way superior to the Rock in submissions but lest we forget that HBK has tapped out to the Ankle Lock, STF, and the Sharpshooter which the Rock uses from time to time. I don't know if the Rock has made anybody tap out to the Sharpshooter but HBK has tapped out to submissions more times than the Rock so HBK is not superior in that regard.

    Nice try.​
     
    #12
  13. HBK-aholic

    HBK-aholic Shawn Michaels ❤

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    Well yeah, your disrespect of Shawn is about as obvious as my obsession.

    If you'd read my post, I said that he's wrestled more than many, not everyone. Nowadays, PPV main events rarely go beyond that.

    Why are the last 6 years important? Is the match taking place 6 years ago? Otherwise I'm lost.

    Good for them.

    But as point 2 shows, The Rock has lost more.

    Does that matter? The point is The Rock will give up more - the important part with this being an iron man match.

    And Shawn has beaten better wresters than the Rock in less. There's no point to this.

    I'll spin this around the other way - Shawn was pinned 0 times in 45 minutes, The Rock, 4-5. And as Bret is a superior opponent to Triple H, you see this point rests in Shawns favour.

    In the same way as Shawn? Not a chance. What is The Rock known for? Being 'the most electrifying man in sports entertainment', working a crowd, his promos. None of them mean anything in these matches.

    Seeings as there are very few wrestlers better than Shawn, I'd love to know who you mean.




    I'd love to see The Rock manouevre his way out of a sharpshooter. Especially after Shawn has hit Sweet Chin Music out of nowhere; something he's also known for doing. Admit it, Shawn is the superior worker here. The Rock was a fantastic wrestler, but Shawn outwrestles him in every category outside of drawing - something which means little here.
     
    #13
  14. CKraus

    CKraus New Member

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    I see shawn micheals taking this one in the closing seconds with rock going for the peoples elbow and bouncing of the ropes only to meet a sweet chin music to the face for the 1 2 3
     
    #14
  15. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    My dear Becca, I respect HBK but I always thought he was overrated. I didn't know it was a rule that you couldn't call anybody you respect overrated but take that want you want it to be.

    You said the last six years and so wasn't important and that PPV matches don't last that long nowadays. If that is the case, what makes you think that HBK can last for 45 minutes? Since I can't bring up what happened in the last six years, I don't want you to bring up HBK's matches because they are both irrelevant as dictated by you.

    I would love to see HBK manuever out of a Sharpshooter because I remember the last time he was in it, he tapped. I almost forgot when he tapped to Legacy but I guess that wouldn't count because Rhodes and DiBiase both had submissions on him. I know Benoit has made the Rock tap and I don't know about Angle but that is all I know of. Why would HBK go to a Sharpshooter after SCM? Wouldn't HBK have the smarts to just pin him then? I guess it is just HBK being his cocky old self. I wouldn't be surprised if the Rock catches him with a roll-up after a nip-up like young Orton did Monday night.

    The Rock may have been one of the most electrifying wrestlers ever but he was damn good in the ring which gets overlooked. Sure he lost in big matches but so has everyone else at some point or time.
     
    #15
  16. HBK-aholic

    HBK-aholic Shawn Michaels ❤

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    Not that you call him overrated, just your whole attitude towards him in every post you make about him.

    When did I say you couldn't?? I asked why that was the cut off point for his matches?
    How are they dictated by me?! Did I book them? It's FACT that, after 45 minutes, Shawn had been pinned 0 times in his iron man match. The Rock had been pinned 4. Just because that proves my point, not yours, you can't tell me not to bring it up.

    Not trying to say Shawn has never tapped out, I never used that argument. But you're right - unless the Rock is going to get a buddy to use a submission as well, it means little.

    So, you think he'd tap to Benoit but not Shawn?


    Actually, what I meant was Shawn could get 2 decisions. After pinning him for the SCM, The Rock isn't going to have the energy to put up with a sharpshooter.

    He was good. But even to suggest he's as good as/better than Shawn in the ring is ridiculous.
     
    #16
  17. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    Where did I say that the Rock was as good as Shawn in the ring? There are plenty of other wrestlers who are as good if not better than Shawn but that is irrelevant in this dicussion.

    It's true that HBK was pinned 0 times and Rock 4 in 45 minutes, but the Rock scored pinfalls in 45 minutes unlike HBK so that matters as well. I don't think the Rock will tap because Shawn hasn't made better wrestlers than the Rock submit to anything. However, wrestlers less greater than the Rock have made HBK submitted. If Cena, Benoit, and two Orton lackeys can make HBK tap, I believe the Rock can make HBK tap as well in addition to the Rock using the People's Elbow and the Rock Bottom.
     
    #17
  18. Mr. TM

    Mr. TM Throwing a tantrum

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    I knew that the Rock was better served elsewhere, or Samoa wouldn't get a single medal. I voted Rock, but it is hard to decide. Both have had one of these matches, but both times, each of the matches was quite different then the other. I think The Rock was the better talent all time especially in tournament settings. He won't win the last match because he always chokes at the end. The rock has incredible endurance and intensity to keep Shawn Michaels tired the entire time.
     
    #18

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