Rd. 1 Submission - Vladimir Kozlov (RUS) vs Samoa Joe (SAM)

Discussion in 'Wrestlezolympics '10' started by IrishCanadian25, Jan 23, 2010.

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Vladimir Kozlov vs Samoa Joe, Submission Match

  1. Vladimir Kozlov

  2. Samoa Joe

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  1. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    Vladimir Kozlov (RUS) vs Samoa Joe (SAM)

    This is a first round Submission Match in the 2010 Wrestlezolympics. This match will be contested under general Submission Match Rules. The match will continue without pinfalls until a wrestler either taps out or is rendered unconscious by an opponents submission maneuver. WZO Submission Matches are contested under no count-out, no DQ rules, but the match can only end via submission inside the ring.

    The match will open for discussion on Monday, January 25th, and voting will begin on Wednesday, January 27th. This is a non-spam thread, so if you decide to post, you must provide reasons why you are backing a particular wrestler. You may vote without posting.
     
    #1
  2. Baller

    Baller WZCW Veteran

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    This is probably the easiest for me to choose, in any of the 8 matches announced so far. I am going with Samoan Submission Machine Samoa Joe. Joe is known for his submissions while I have never seen Koslov do submission. Koslov has a slight power advantage but not by much as Joe is not some slack. I see Koslov dominating the match early but Joe will get him into his submission maneuver and advance to semi finals pretty easily.
     
    #2
  3. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    In truth, the only reason Kozlov was selected for this event is because of his MMA background. That doesn't always translate into instant success for a pro wrestler. Ken Shamrock was able to make the transition, Dan Severn did eventually (and quite well) with the NWA. Aside from that, I can really only think of Antonio Inoki as an MMA guy who was able to be a servicable pro wrestler with a submission repitoire.

    Joe, as Dr. of Ballernomics states, has made a pretty successful ROH and TNA career out of being a "submission machine." Plus, Joe's size will partially neutralize Kozlov's, taking away the Russian's only real line of offense in most matches.

    Joe wins easilly here, and will be a dark horse to challenge for a medal in the next rounds.
     
    #3
  4. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    A complete no-brainer. Samoe Joe's specialty is a submission. Kozlov's is sheer power-wrestling. The only thing that could make this match interesting is if it was a normal, one-on-one contest. Besides that, I didn't even give this match more than 2 seconds of thought.

    Like IC25 said, Kozlov was the best Russian fit for this matchup due to his Sambo background. But in the kayfabe world that the Wrestlezolympics resides in, Samoa Joe is truly superior here.

    Joe is gonna kill Vladmir.
     
    #4
  5. Y 2 Jake

    Y 2 Jake Slightly Autistic

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    Very intresting, so is he a bit like Bobby Lashley then? Limited in ring ability, but with an MMA pedigree. It's weird you should bring that up, I don't want to the the one person who points out that Samoa Joe isn't immune to submissions and is susceptible to being choked to the point of unconsciousness.
     
    #5
  6. Thriller Ant

    Thriller Ant Beep Bop Boop

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    Has Kozlov ever used a submission? This is all Joe, and it isn't even close. He matches up size-wise with Kozlov pretty decently, but has a huge speed and agility advantage. He will wear Kozlov out before knocking him out with the Coquina Clutch.
     
    #6
  7. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    Nobody is immune. But at the end of the day, I will gladly take the accomplished, submission-focused professional wrestler in the professional submission wrestling match. If this were a straight up MMA shootfight, I may feel differently, but this match takes place in a ring with 4 sides instead of 8. I'll take Joe FTW by a landslide.

    But to answer your original question, yes, there is some marginal similarity between Kozlov and Lashley, except that Bobby's pedigree is more amateur wrestling parlayed into MMA, whereas Kozlov was specific Sambo MMA parlayed into pro wrestling.
     
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  8. Y 2 Jake

    Y 2 Jake Slightly Autistic

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    Me too, but I'm often inclined to take the untested yet successful wrestlers over established guys with patchy records.

    Kozlov, despite his limited push over the past year, has a remarkable record. His win percentage is very good in singles competition. Samoa Joe has won & lost against a range of competitors of all shapes and sizes. There's not much Samoa Joe could learn about Kozlov from losses against Undertaker & HBK.
     
    #8
  9. Amarillo del Bosque Verde

    Amarillo del Bosque Verde The straightedge Irishman.

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    I think I am going to back Samoa Joe...I mean...he is the Samoan Submission Machine! I have seen Samoa Joe and he is a very good submission wrestler. I havent really seen Kozlov's submission ability and dont think he made a very good transition from MMA to wrestling!
     
    #9
  10. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    Thing here is simple: this is pro wrestling, not MMA. As the boss said, there are really two Americans that have made the transition and Severn was a joke in the mainstream for the most part. The other thing that makes Joe a much bigger star is simple: he's won something. Kozlov has looked good, but what has he ever actually accomplished? He has no titles and few impressive victories. Joe has a damn fine resume and the skills to back it up. I'll take results over potential anyday.
     
    #10
  11. LascoX

    LascoX Pre-Show Stalwart

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    I see Kozlov manhandeling Samoa Joe for twenty minutes as he pulls out all the stops. Joe finally manages to lock in a choke hold after a winded Kozlov finally makes a mistake. Kozlov forced to tap out.
     
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  12. Spurs4life22

    Spurs4life22 Dark Match Winner

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    Gonna take Joe here. Although not as easily as some may have you believe. Kozlov is a dominant force inside the ring and the no count outs and DQ rule could play into his hands as they brawl around the outside for the majority of the match.

    Thats where the problem is though,Joe is a very good brawler too,and would be able to hang with Kozlov as they trade blows,and because of that skill and not getting completley ruined in the brawl he will still have enough energy to lock in a choke hold on a fatigued Kozlov when the match finds it way back inside the ring.
     
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  13. capoxstatus

    capoxstatus Dark Match Winner

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    Spurs brings up a good point. Kozlov has that brawler type mindset, which i think falls well into the hands of Joe. Joe needs just one opening and bam he can clinch whatever he wants and start either making you tap or start working on an area.

    Joe is the called the samoan submission machine for a reason, the dude has a good knowledge of holds, and knows how to weaken and attack areas to get the most out of those submissions.

    He can stand toe to toe as brawler with kozlov but while both will dish out pain in that way, joe will know how to take advantage of the pain and clinch in a submission and just end it. Joe with a win.
     
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  14. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    It may be true that Samoa Joe is a submission machine, but Kozlov is one of the few wrestlers that has never lost by submission, I don't think. That being said, I doubt he has ever used a submission move either. I think Joe would probably choke him out eventually, but I don't think this is the walkover that everyone appears to be assuming.
     
    #14
  15. Mantaur Rodeo Clown

    Mantaur Rodeo Clown X-Pac Rules

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    I'm not quite sure if I've ever seen anything submission based out of Kozlov besides your standard bearhug. Sure he's a monster and he could throw anyone around, but when Samoa Joe turns it on, he;s just as scary and just as unstoppable. He's not one to quite after a beating, so without anything else in his arsenal, Kozlow is dead in the water, Kozlov could do what he wants, but eventually the rear naked choke would prevail.
     
    #15
  16. X

    X RIP Sgt. Michael Paranzino / RIP CM

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    Easy victory here for Samoa Joe, the man didn't earn the nickname of the Samoan Submission Machine for no reason people, over the years his repertoire of moves has decreased more and more but when he first burst into the indy scene the man would practically invent submissions in every match he wrestled in. He'd find a new way to twist and turn and pull on different muscles and body parts in every match, and we haven't even gotten to his mastering of the Coquina Clutch. Easy victory for Joe here, Kozlov didn't really stand a chance.
     
    #16
  17. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    Not as easy as some may think, but I'm going with Joe here. Koslov definetly won't tap out easily, I think Joe'd have to make him pass out to win. Those Russians are pretty tough mother fuckers.

    However, I don't think Koslov has ever used a submission move on any kind of regular basis to finish matches. Remember, Lashley beat Joe quite easily in a submission match. It'll be a tough won, but I'm going with fatty.
     
    #17
  18. Just FalKonika

    Just FalKonika I'm Literally Just Here for WZCW

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    Samoa Joe is called the "Submission Machine" for a reason. This guy came rose through the ranks of ROH where pure wrestling is required more than places like WWE and TNA, who used multiple submissions to finish off his opponents. His unique build makes him fast, agile and versatile to apply almost anything, with his power game to match with other big men like Kozlov. That Tazmission-esque finisher of his is enough to defeat a man who uses his head in the physical sense only.

    Joe over Kozlov.
     
    #18
  19. Mr. TM

    Mr. TM Throwing a tantrum

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    Easy choice here, both big physical men, but one is an MMA (=/= submissionist) who hardly does any submissions in wrestling versus a man known as the Sumisaion Killing Machine. It's the reason why I started watching Samoa, just to see him take out all the talent in his wake. Easy win in a job out.
     
    #19
  20. The Hiphopapotamus

    The Hiphopapotamus The Dude abides

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    Yeah, submission machine for a reason, no brainer, Kozlov doesn't use submissions yada yada yada. Everything that can be said, has been said, Joe deserves to win this. In fact, I'm backing Joe to win the submission competiton, and he'll walk over kozlov. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that Joe would beat him in any match they wrestled, and the submission match is just giving Joe an even bigger advantage.

    As for Kozlov not tapping, he doesn't need to tap. The clutch can make him pass out. He's a tough motherfucker, but once Joe locks it in and rolls on to his back/side, it spells the end for Vlad the Failer.
     
    #20
  21. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
    E-Fed Mod

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    Everyone rants and raves about how great is Samoa Joe, and i'll admit, considering his size and stamina potenial, he's great. However, I look at Koslov the same way. Considering his extensive MMA and sambo backgrounds, it can be assumed that the man has to endure a strict training regiment in order to keep his stamina levels at World Class standards.

    I've seen quite a few sambo matches, and even the heavyweights can go for quite a while.

    Koslov still has a young career in pro wrestling, and his character is still slowly evolving. With that evolution, more and more of his ring work and abilities become apparent. None of us fans really know the extent of Koslov's abilites, but it can be assumed that his successful martist background would enable him to spar evenly with Joe. And, if Koslov could match Joe hold for hold, power for power, move for move, it's plausible that Koslov could defeat Joe as well.
     
    #21
  22. LigerBomb

    LigerBomb Getting Noticed By Management

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    I know the sambo discipline rather well, and have seen their training repertoire. Therefore I'll make the inference that Kozlov not only knows how to preform submissions but likely also spent time tied up in various submissions to stretch/strengthen the joints so as to condition himself to withstand the attacks. I fully believe that he was told by his match agents to wrestle a certain way and play up his size and power rather than his technical ability. That said I'm not much of a fan of his; I suppose this is a kayfabe tourney? I'll throw the vote to the Russian, so as to not have the outcome be so lopsided...
     
    #22
  23. INDYjon22

    INDYjon22 Nome is where your heart is

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    Is this a joke? Samoa Joe wins this match without even breaking a sweat. I can not for the life of me remember Kovloz ever using a submission, even a sleeper. The man is completely one dimensional and regardless of how strong he is he posses no submission skills to my knowledge.

    Samoa Joe on the other hand has proven time and time again that not only is he a very good brawler but that he can do submissions with the best of them, well it least the upper midcard best of them. He would just beat the hell out of Kozlov's legs, set him up for a muscle buster and then lock in the rear naked choke.

    This match goes no longer then 7 minutes with your winner being Samoa Joe.
     
    #23

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