Randy Orton still has a lot to offer, besides profuse superstardom.

Discussion in 'The Wrestling Archives' started by AegonTargaryen, Jan 16, 2016.

  1. AegonTargaryen

    AegonTargaryen Championship Contender

    Feb 5, 2014
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    1)I have only just begun watching Battleground 2015, (as I'm still catching up with things I missed between 2014-late 2015). So the first match is Randy Orton vs Sheamus and Orton's entrance is second. Thunderous ovation, bordering on effusive and unrestrained. I haven't heard such a loud pop/applause in years. Most recently, I hear Dean Ambrose getting quite a loud applause on Raw, but nothing like this. And it got me thinking.

    2)Here is this wrestler whom I had perceived as "okay, no big deal" for the last few years, on account of the "Randy Orton is awesome, so what?" state of mind that a lot of us here have been in, for years now. That's what happens due to overexposure. Nevertheless, I realized while watching that entrance and the match overall- how amazing Randy really is, dude is awesome in the ring, and contrary to popular IWC belief/opinion, has a lot of personality, even as face. His versatility throughout his career recurred to me- as the legend killer, his smirks and laughs as a face, his viciousness as the viper...I can only emphasize that Randy Orton is a once in a lifetime superstar, an awesome one. We're privileged, or at least should feel so, (like how we feel for the Rock, Kurt Angle, Sting, Shawn Michaels, and so on), as long as we get to see him.

    3)Jack-Hammer has pointed out in numerous threads, as have I, in concord, that the thing about Randy Orton is that he has done it all already at age 33(35 now? )..the RR win, the Wrestlemania mainevents, the 13 world championships, MITB win, alignment with The Authority, Legacy, tag titles,...IC title. But I realized that unlike Sheamus, none of it seems(to me at least) as overachievement. He has mostly excelled at everything, put people over, and shined when allowed to. I say unlike Sheamus, because like OYDK pointed out in the recent thread on Sheamus- he comes across as a guy who has tremendously overachieved in his career within just 5 years, and to me, Sheamus never even seemed like a legitimate maineventer. But digressions apart, everything about Randy Orton's career has been memorable. He might have failed at a few things(like Legacy, since Cody never quite benefited from it/him, and Ted Deb, who was never talented enough in the first place decided to "quit" the WWE), but even that is debatable, IMO.

    4)Finally, what I feel is that Randy still has a lot to offer, upon his return. Not only is he the only other wrestler other than John Cena whose mere presence screams superstardom..but still has to offer a lot of wonderful feuds, and who knows, even a year or so with him being the focal point of Raw as the WWE WHC, heel or face (regardless of the argument of whether he should be so or not).

    a)Feud with Kevin Owens.
    b)Extended feud with Seth Rollins- ironman matches, HIAC or steel cage, and so on.
    c)Feud with Brock Lesnar.
    d)Feud with Cesaro, provided that Cesaro succeeds in becoming more than just a Swiss Superman and the God of Athleticism, basically, gives us something like a character to make us care about him. (Like how Edge had the Rated-R superstar thing).

    I can't think of anything else right now, but he should certainly NEVER feud with Sheamus, The Miz, or Alberto "godforsaken" Del Rio again. Or maybe he should, with Del Rio.:rolleyes:
    Good Golly It's Ollie likes this.
  2. Jack-Hammer

    Staff Member Moderator

    Mar 26, 2009
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    I've never meant to give the impression that Orton has overachieved, I've always lauded the guy as a genuine talent. However, the fact remains that a great many people find the notion of Randy Orton in the main event/WWE Championship picture, after being featured so long in said picture over the past decade or so, is about as exciting as watching paint dry.

    I'd be all for seeing him feud with Owens or Cesaro, I wouldn't mind seeing what he did with AJ Styles or Nakamura when they make their way into WWE. I wouldn't mind seeing him feud with Ambrose or, possibly, Del Rio over the mid-card titles. I wouldn't even mind the notion of Orton winning the United States Championship. Ultimately, however, I'm more interested in Orton putting over younger and/or fresher talent. Of course, that ultimate decision would rest with Vince McMahon. Orton has attained such a level in his career that his legacy is pretty much assured; the fact that he also seems to be getting a little injury prone, where his shoulder is concerned, strikes me as a sign that it's time WWE used him to help build up fresher talent rather that WWE using said talent to further bolster a career that's highly unlikely to get any bigger.
    HBKistheHOF likes this.
  3. J.J.

    J.J. Mid-Card Championship Winner

    Jun 20, 2011
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    Orton sometimes doesn't get the credit he deserves. He makes everything look so natural. He's almost too good in a lot of ways when it comes to his ring work. It's why he gets a lot of flack for coming off as disinterested or boring is because you never see the seams in his performance. I think it is extremely difficult to be a really great heel in current era WWE and he and Rollins have been just about the only two guys to really achieve that with the current product.

    I also think he accomplished a ton kayfabe wise way too quickly so it is hard for him to have a compelling story years and years later. When he's working with someone fresh, he's probably the best worker WWE have. It's not his fault that we always seem to end up with Cena vs Orton over and over again.
  4. Jeff Deliverer of Mail

    Jeff Deliverer of Mail Money for nothin, chicks for free
    E-Fed Mod

    Jun 15, 2015
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    The reason he got a good pop vs Sheamus at Battleground is because he was the hometown boy in that match if I remember correctly. The hometown heroes usually get the bigger than normal pops.
  5. Good Golly It's Ollie

    Good Golly It's Ollie Magical Girl

    Apr 29, 2011
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    OP is right, especially on the usual criticism of Orton as boring/uncharismatic. Which could not be further from the truth. Heel Orton is especially good at working and playing to a crowd, watch some of his 2012-2014ish stuff.

    One point which I will continue to state well after Orton's done: he has an undeniable "X Factor". A kind of natural badassness which is rare even among tough guys. He looks at you and the look itself could batter the crap out of you.

    Again this thing of "Orton's done it all, but too soon" has come up, which in fairness is true. He actually doesn't have any particular accolade left to go after, which means he tends to be booked badly as this Savage-esque "Other Top Guy" who's subservient to the other heel or face at the time.

    If there's anything to really criticise, it's that he sometimes gives off a "going through the motions" vibe which JJ touched upon, but again I consider this a symptom of being put in generic uppercard feuds which lack real meaning for years on end.
    TJ Matics and RomanfreakinReigns like this.
  6. Azane

    Azane Mid-Card Championship Winner

    Mar 3, 2011
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    Randy Orton can be great, as long as they keep him Miles away from John Cena, everytime RKO gets hot, they toss him in a story with Cena, and we get one of the most overplayed story in wrestling history.

    It's funny that being really good at what you do can get stale, but Randy Orton achieved that.
  7. AegonTargaryen

    AegonTargaryen Championship Contender

    Feb 5, 2014
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    Of course, I know you never meant to convey that impression. I meant that Sheamus' achievements, as a contrast to Orton, seem to be overachievements(as OYDK pointed out), whereas..pretty much most of us think of Orton's accolades in all their profusion and variety as well-earned and well-deserved.

    I'd actually love to see Orton as the WWE WHC/focal point, for a prolonged period. By the time it happens, if at all, it'll be a good 3-4 years since Orton's last stint as the focal point(2013).

    While putting over younger/newer talent is hardly a bad thing, Orton is such a star that IMO, feuding with Rollins, Reigns, etc. will naturally elevate them, even if Orton was the one who won the feud or a couple of matches here and there.

    Besides wrestling numerous fresh stars(Styles, KO), Orton also has a big-money match or two against Lesnar which have never happened. We can only anticipate.
  8. Vanilla Midget

    Vanilla Midget Registered Suplex Offender

    Apr 9, 2014
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    One of the things we need to see is another evolution of Randy. He returned from injury in 2008 with the shaved head, the completed tattoo arm sleeves, and looking leaner than ever. He shed the smarmy young prick gimmick that his heel character had run since 2003/2004 and went on to be perceived as a legit bad ass. He was white hot, then he turned face. The face turn was logical, but then he was smiling and being pals with everyone.

    Randy has been allowed to develop his character, unlike Cena. Randy is to Cena as Bret is to Shawn, as Austin is to Rock. The two will always be intrinsically tied together in the history books.

    Orton should be allowed to explore new options. I'm not saying they should slap a gimmick on him, have him paint his face or change his name or something extreme. That whole RKO out of nowhere meme getting main stream attention is a start, though you don't want to beat a dead horse.

    Orton is most interesting, heel or face, when he is unstable and dangerous. He was white hot in 2009, and again when he turned face against the Authority, but then they sent him away.

    Make him dangerous. RKO out of nowhere. No friends, no smiling, no slapping hands. See what he wants to do, he's a veteran now. Maybe he has ideas where he wants to take his character. Character development is the essential key to upping Randy's already impeccable star rating.
    OYDK likes this.
  9. Navi

    Navi With the safety off!!

    Apr 15, 2010
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    I seriously doubt that there is any poster on this forum that wouldn't agree that Randy Orton has had one hell of a career in the WWE. He has done it all. The problem is that Orton himself sometimes looks like he doesn't want to be there.

    It doesn't matter how awesome he is, or who he feuds with, he has always had this reputation for being how you say "being Randy". I would love nothing better than to see him come back renewed and with a fresh approach, but how often can he do that. You watch him saunter to the ring, and watch Cena's entrance, and it's like Cena wants to be there.

    I love Orton, always have, think he's one of the best, but he needs to get his passion back, and it has to show. What I'm seeing out of him, is a guy who thinks to himself "been there, done there, what else is there." Maybe having this time off will change his perception, I hope so.
  10. OYDK

    OYDK King Of The Ring

    Feb 19, 2014
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    When I look at Randy Orton, I see potential. As has been mentioned, and is mentioned every time Orton is discussed, the guy has done everything there is to do in a WWE ring, and he's done it at a very young age. However, I still get the feeling that Orton, under the right circumstances can actually have a major career resurgence. I'm thinking of guys like Hogan and Sting, who both had reached a point in their careers where change seemed to be needed, and I believe that Orton falls in the same kind of mold right now. The transformations of Hulk Hogan and Sting to "Hollywood Hogan" and "The Crow" completely rejuvenated the careers of both guys, who, like Orton, had also been around forever and done it all.

    Why not return with a completely different look, mindset, music, etc? People know who Orton is and if the idea is decent and intriguing, fans will likely buy into it. Who knows, it could even launch Orton into heights that he's never been before and start off his "2nd career". Ultimately, I think Orton's young, diverse, and skilled enough to overhaul his character one more time. Doubt it happens though.
  11. Rocky84

    Rocky84 Guest

    Jan 28, 2013
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    As much as he needs it, I also doubt it happens. Seems the company just doesn't have the same type of creativity it used to...or the whole wrestling industry for that matter. In today's world, instead of awesome ideas such as the NWO/Hollywood Hogan or the Crow Sting, we get The League of Nations, or the MexAmericans, or the Social Outcasts. Individually, we get Sheamus who gets a completely new idiotic look and acts like his same ol self. So I'm not getting my hopes up for some cool fresh idea when in comes to Randy Orton. It'll be the same old boring stuff.
    RomanfreakinReigns likes this.
  12. ShinChan

    ShinChan Gone. For. Good.

    Sep 9, 2015
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    I love Randy Orton a lot. I see him on the same level as of John Cena. He is an awesome in-ring worker. He can play both as a heel and a face that too naturally. I think WWE should give him a chance to elevate mid-card titles and thus mid-carders like they did with John Cena and US Title. But i am very worried about his physical well-being. :shrug:

    RomanfreakinReigns likes this.
  13. Mustang Sally

    Mustang Sally Sells seashells by the seashore

    Nov 12, 2008
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    I used to think that, but upon further examination I figure the problem is more that his ring repertoire is so smooth and any display of emotion so in check that I was getting the mistaken impression he was mailing it in.

    I don't believe that anymore. Bret Hart attributed 'excellence of execution' to himself, yet I believe it's a quality surpassed by Randy Orton. The guy was born to be a professional wrestler, he never lets himself get out of shape .....and I've found that explosive shows of anger don't really work with him; he's more effective when handling his reactions to people/situations in understated fashion.

    For instance, when he briefly teamed with Kane and Daniel Bryan.....when Daniel was in his 'paranoid' phase, Randy was fencing with him by rolling his eyes and effecting body language that suggested he'd put up with Bryan's insecurities for a while, but no longer. I thought Randy was terrific in this and realized he can 'act' better than I originally figured.

    Hopefully, absence will make our hearts grow fonder by the time he finally comes back......and I wouldn't be surprised if management is keeping him out longer than his injuries require so that his return will seem fresh and exciting.....to us, and to him.

    The guy is a master technician in the ring and has plenty of main-event time left in his career.
    ShinChan likes this.
  14. Prince Vee

    Prince Vee Better than I think I am

    Nov 25, 2014
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    I wouldn't complain even if Randy Orton wins yet another World Title. He's a naturally gifted wrestler and an athlete. I reckon, the huge pops and ovations that he had achieved was in the recent past. The Rated-RKO, Legacy wasn't never keep his momentum going. Even his feud with the Undertaker at Wrestlemania had so much accolades is because of the name Undertaker in it. So was his feuds with Triple H and the Authority in the past.

    But in the recent years, things have changed. Even while aligning with the Authority it was Randy Orton who was garnishing considerable amount of heat. His feuds with Seth Rollins was overwhelming. Shame on him that he was injured. But I'll put my wager on some thunderous applause when he returns.

    He still has a lot to achieve. He definitely deserves it.
  15. whoopin' ass

    whoopin' ass Championship Contender

    Mar 26, 2011
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    I have to disagree. Orton got pushed because management liked him. Is he good in the ring? Sure but so was Shelton Benjamin and he never got the push like Orton. But character-wise, he only worked when he was dealing with top level talent. Put him in a feud with someone midcard and it doesn't seem to work. He really can't elevate talent either. So since it has been like this for a decade now, how do you use him differently today and make it seem natural? Look at his feud with Rollins - it really didn't elevate him and make him seem like a main eventer, he still came out behind Orton. So if wwe can't use him to elevate Rollins, how are they going to use him to elevate others? Orton and Cena have both been on top and protected for so long, they really don't serve any purpose other than to be a main event unless wwe is going to go in a radical new direction. Hogan was the same way - he left because really he wasn't going to elevate anyone anymore and when he came back from WCW, they still had the same problem. Only person Hogan really got over was Lesnar but that was the new direction - Lesnar was going though all the talent. Is there anyone on the roster today who you see wwe doing this with? Reigns - been on the roster too long already. Owens - already on the roster and they screwed it up by having him lose to Cena. Anyone from NXT? not really. So unless they really want to undermine Orton and have people coming up just run through him, his purpose is limited.

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