New York Region, Toronto Subregion: Second Round: (10)Ultimate Warrior vs. (7)Batista

Discussion in 'New York Region' started by klunderbunker, Mar 2, 2011.

?

Who Wins This Match

  1. Ultimate Warrior

  2. Batista

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Con T.

    Con T. Yaz ain't enough, I need Fluttershy

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    1,037
    You're shitting me here, right? We're going to really use career lows? Fine, let's use Deacon Batista, when he was D-Von's bitch on the road, and was really damn close to being released before he cozied right up to Triple H.

    Yeah, sorry, not buying this. As for trying to devalue his victory over Andre... Erm, what? So let me get this straight. Now we should completely marginalize beating perhaps the second biggest name in wrestling at the time, and doing so in a squash? Literally, The Warrior clotheslined Andre a few times, hit his splash, and that was it for Fezzik. You really want to marginalize that?

    And since you're the one that brought up Hogan, riddle me this; when did Batista ever defeat the company's face? Don't give me Triple H, you know exactly what I'm talking about. When did Batista ever beat John Cena, in his prime, in a one on one match.

    Oh, that's right. It never fucking happened.

    Actually, yeah, he was pretty damn near it. An entire career, and never beaten clean once. Never. That's pretty damn near invulnerable to me. Also, sod off with that whole no selling shit. Warrior was big because people loved him, and because he made money for Vince, period, end of story. At the end of the day, that's what it's all about, and Warrior did it far better than Melina's Mistress.


    You really think we care how many matches someone has had? Really? It matters that much? You know who's had more matches than The Ultimate Warrior, probably?

    [​IMG]

    You sure as shit wouldn't use that in a debate as to why Brawler should go over Warrior, and you shouldn't use it here. The rest is some mumble about Batista's moves being more effective, which is a load of hogwash. If they were, then riddle me this; why has Batista never gotten that win against John Cena. Hell, has he even beaten The Undertaker, even though he's had like a million tries before?

    Face it, Warrior went over some of the best in the industry, including the face of the company. Batista, on the other hand, never has, and never will.
     
    #26
  2. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    3,712
    Likes Received:
    938
    I know you're probably going to spout off some shit about 2008 not being Cena's prime but I don't care. That was the first time they faced in an one-on-one match and Batista beat him. Batista beat the Undertaker in late 2007 and everyone considers Undertaker's prime to be from 2006-2010. It was supposed to be Orton vs. HHH at WM 21 but Batista became so popular so quickly that they changed it and beat The Game three straight times. Batista has been the top heel numerous times throughout his career in Edge and Orton. Batista in his prime has been just as dominant against the top guys in his era than anyone else.

    I know Batista has lost but Warrior isn't going to be faking an injury or having five people coming down on his behalf and Batista isn't going to be injured going into this match. Undertaker is the only top guy that's got him once in Batista's prime. John Cena can't say that, Edge can't say that, HBK can't say that, and Orton can't say that.
     
    #27
    Big Nick Dudley likes this.
  3. Con T.

    Con T. Yaz ain't enough, I need Fluttershy

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    1,037
    You're really talking about the same year that JBL went over John Cena? Are you kidding me here? This isn't exactly a kayfabe argument, but you;re also talking about a match where Cena herniated a disk off Batista's botch (Yes, yes, top rope, Batista was trusted to keep control of him, he didn't). Pinned at Wrestlemania by Orton, spent a good portion of the year hurt by Batista's fuck up, you're damn right it was probably the worst year of cena's career, kayfabe wise. The only time he got close to sniffing a title was when Jobber Jericho gave it up to him at the end of the year.

    Sure, he's beaten The Undertaker, but has nowhere near as many wins as Taker holds over him. Simply put, you put Warrior in place there, and those are matches Warrior wins. Whereas Batista folds when all the pressure is on him, Warrior comes out on top. Warrior holds decisive victories over legends in the business, and the best you can give me is Batista fucking up Cena's back legit, during perhaps the worst year of his career.

    Right, tough choice you're giving me here
     
    #28
  4. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    3,712
    Likes Received:
    938
    John Cena went over more times so we can do that argument all day. Cena did the Rumble and faced Orton for the title at No Way Out only to have Orton wimp out as usual by disqualification and you mentioned Cena at Wrestlemania so he has been close numerous times to sniffing a title as you say.

    Prime Batista is 1-1 against Undertaker with two draws thrown in there in gimmick matches. Batista has decisive victories over HBK, HHH, and Orton. Batista with a fucked up arm beat an Orton who was it his best as a heel in under ten minutes.
     
    #29
  5. Mr. Artistic guy

    Mr. Artistic guy Better Off This Way

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    948
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    I can cleanly see either guy winning this one, of course you'd have to figure the match wouldn't be very long. Two similar styles mixed in with poor stamina (especially on Batista's part).

    What I find interesting is that both guys had one period of gigantic achievements in their career. Ultimate Warrior beat Hulk Hogan at Wrestlemania, his first loss there during the era where he dominated. Batista had that series of wins over HHH, who has never been an easy guy to beat once, even beating him in Hell in a Cell where he had won all previous encounters against bigger stars than Batista, that's just huge. Batista also had that feud with Taker with was probably the most impressive thing Taker was involved in since his return to being the deadman, aside form his HBK wrestlemania matches.

    Ultimate Warrior was booked as unstoppable often, but his career peaked when he beat Hogan, and never stopped slipping afterwards. I just have to edge this for Dave as, although I am like most guys and don't like either as a performer of human being, he had moments where he wasn't crap. For one his run heading into Wrestlemania last year was the highlight of the entire build-up for me, and he never fell down the scale after becoming the franchise unlike the Warrior.
     
    #30
  6. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    1,060

    Never devalued the victory. Pointed out his 2 biggest wins.




    beating hunter at WM for the title aint no joke son.

    & as for cena-broke his neck. summerslam 08 i think? so its happened.





    son, dont mistake the point i was making & try to mock it with this ******ed shit. No one, not even his mom, would say lombardi would go over the warrior. It seems to matter alot to people when talking in regards to a career. My point was Batista was dominant as well & he beat some of the best during his era many of which are legends or the future HOF inductees(HBK, Taker, Edge, Cena, orton, HHH, JBL).



    Batista Bomb\Spinebuster better\more effective than a press slam & splash. watch your tapes, its all about impact. Hurts more in real life & hurts more in kayfabe.

    and once again for the slow kids in class....

    has beaten cena. has beaten undertaker. pay attention. see above reply. never is a strong word. apparently you dont think any of the above mentioned names matter?
     
    #31
  7. Con T.

    Con T. Yaz ain't enough, I need Fluttershy

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    1,037
    Wow, besides sounding condescending as all hell, you don't seem to understand what I was getting at with the Cena point. I'm going to repeat myself, with a highlighted word you likely missed.


    Look, 2008, the year you're referencing, was an absolute shit year for Cena, and if we really want to break it down, was the end of Cena's run of absolutely smoking people. When you're talking about a year where John Cena:

    A. Was cleanly pinned by Randy Orton in back to back pay per views
    B. Jobbed to Triple H for the WWE Title
    C. Jobbed to JBL of all people
    D. Was injured for about four months of the year
    E. Finally won the B-Title from Chris Jericho, who'd job to your mother if he could.

    Yeah, that's nowhere near prime Cena. Say what you want, that was probably the weakest point of Cena's career. Meanwhile, Warrior beat Hogan at the height of Hulkamania, when Hogan was riding a white hot streak into Mania, before losing to him.

    Also, you point out some other very nice names. Good for you. The problem is, in almost all of those feuds, save for HBK, Batista wound up losing the war. Meanwhile, let's take a good look at Warrior's track record.

    Randy Savage; beaten in their only match where there was a clean victory, at Wrestlemania

    Rick Rude: Last laugh in a steel cage match.

    The Undertaker: Beat the Undertaker, in his own match type (before there was a casket match, Taker had the bodybag match, which Warrior won)

    Now, then, let's plat a little game called, which group is better. Which of the following group of people would you say it sounds more impressive that someone beat.

    Wrestler A: Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Andre the Giant, The Undertaker, Rick Rude, Ted DiBiase

    Wrestler B: John Cena, Undertaker, HBK, Edge, Randy Orton

    Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm much more impressed by the resume of wrestler A.
     
    #32
  8. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,907
    Likes Received:
    1,515
    Warrior was in the WWF for 5 years, and is not remembered as an embarrassment. Batista was in the WWF for 8 years, not that much longer, especially when you consider he was quite injury prone.

    As for the sunglasses thing, this man, this man who runs shakes the ropes and bounces off them got pops as loud as Hulk Hogan in the 1980s. THAT is charisma.


    This is literally the worst argument anyone can make. Firstly, I would much rather fall 7 feet then have a twenty stone man jump on me. Think about it. Batista comes down with you, you aren't thrown, you're dropped. Warrior dropped you from a similar height, then jumped on you. Just because the splash looked shit, don't be fooled by that. It kept Undertaker down, when he was booked more dominantly, better than the Batista Bomb ever did.

    All true. But if you replace "Edge" with "Everyone" and you come close to explaining the state of things with the Warrior. Undertaker tried to beat Warrior, and failed. Unfortunately, I can't find the video of him beating Taker, so you'll have to settle for this no contest. Pay particular attention to 10:40, which is the point where Warrior stands up after a tombstone, the move that put Batista away.



    Seeing that you love the Batista only lost when x and y happened, remember he only beat Taker the second time. He doesn't have a second chance here.
    Of course, in the case of many of these people, it took him two matches to get them. He doesn't have that luxury here. And if the Batista Bomb is anything like Triple H's pedigree, Hogan's leg drop, Taker's tombstone, Savage's elbow drop etc. he'll just stand straight back up again.

    Well he did lose, he just never lost to anyone like Batista. He lost to people who cheated to get victories. Face Batista didn't do that, and heel Batista never won. That's a pretty simple way of looking at it.

    So what. Batista never beat anyone in that manner, let alone a guy being pushed as hard as Triple H was. I tell you what though, I'll accept that Triple H was a rookie, so he could expect to get squashed. Warrior never beat anyone of any significance quickly. The only other video I could find was of him beating this French wrestler. For the time pressed amongst you, the match starts at 2:32, the referee's hand comes down for the 3 count at 2:53. 21 seconds to beat Andre The Giant. 21 seconds.



    Let me just stop you there. You really think that a man who was WWF champion 10 months at a time when the WWF were doing 5 house shows a week only wrestled 60 matches in his entire career? Are you fucking ******ed? Even if he wrestled 50% of the shows WWE put on in 1990 that would be about 140 matches in one year. Seriously, don't go on a web match listing that anyone with half a brain cell could see was incomplete and spout utter, utter bullshit.

    Hogan never beat Warrior in the WWF, and took almost 100 times longer than Warrior did to beat Andre. Even if you include the WCW win, I'm pretty sure the nWo will keep out of this one.

    WrestleMania 12 - March 31 1996
    MSG Incident - May 19 1996

    Nice one.

    Oh yeah, beating Hogan clean happened all the time. Beating Andre in less than a minute was routine. Kicking out of Randy Savage's finisher 5 times happened every day. In fact, the absolute opposite of what you said is true.

    Undertaker no sold, Hogan no sold, Andre no sold, it was the way of the time. Not to mention the fact that it seemed to get him over.

    Savage beat him by count out, and he beat Rick Rude approximately three million times, where Rude beat him once in highly dubious circumstances.

    More matches? It'd be close, Warrior had a slightly shorter career, but no injuries. More titles? Yes. However, Batista held singles titles for a combined 544 days, when there were more 4 singles titles to be won. Warrior held singles titles for 725 days when there were 2 of them. So while he won fewer, he was better at defending them.
    Shit argument, as I've said before. Hogan's finisher was a leg drop, and The Rock's was an elbow drop - I assume you'll be voting against them too, right?

    Like Hogan did? Oh no, he didn't.
    Like Andre did? Oh no, he didn't.
    Like Savage did? Oh no he didn't.

    I could go on. Batista has never shown himself to be a particularly resilient wrestler, he very rarely kicked out of anyone's finishers.

    Except he doesn't

    Except he can't

    Except he wouldn't.


    No, no need to go to such arguments. Batista beat Cena, it's true, but what's important is that he didn't go on from that to being the number one guy in the company. When Warrior beat Hogan, a similar, but better, achievement, he became the face of the company. Batista couldn't do that, and only really got a serious chance on Raw when Cena was out injured.

    In terms of match quality, yes, but in terms of dominance, no. That was in 1990-1, when Warrior beat him.

    Not popular enough to main event a WrestleMania though?

    Warrior beat Savage, DiBiase and Andre, what's your point?


    Except, err, Warrior who never lost to any of them. Unlike Batista who did.

    Savage won't interfere twice, Bobby Heenan doesn't manage Batista, and Batista isn't in the nWo. Batista doesn't stand a chance.


    Well, Michaels did beat him without cheating, he outsmarted him. If you consider Batista's prime to be 2008 alone, then I guess you could say that was true. Doesn't matter though, because absolutely nobody can claim to have beaten Warrior clean, no qualifiers, no time periods, nobody has ever done it.

    Warrior beat Andre in under 1 minute.
     
    #33
    jmt225, PsychoBlack and D-Man like this.
  9. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    1,060
    you got me on the date for the msg incident, had my dates wrong. one point.


    back in the day, not all the big guys worked all the house shows so its debatable as far as how many he showed up for. only vince knows for sure, but i remember hearing from a few WWF guys in interviews that Warrior had a light schedule in regard to non broadcasted matches.. but regardless, still, due to the brand extention, more shows have been held now rather than in the 80's. exact # probably off, but that really is a mute point. was going with growth\experience factor rather than pinning down an exact #.


    im spending way too much time with this all- on a match i wouldnt pay to watch.


    having a pissing contest in regard to winning cleanly during a scripted match is kinda difficult. different factors lead to either man's dominace. times are definately different in the respective era's. in the 80's, most heels seemed to never beat the face without cheating somehow. still, ultimately a decision handed down from vince & what he wanted to do. this is why i try not to argue about kayfabe as much & go for more of a real life aspect in the tournaments. depends on the mood of the booker & mood of the crowd. vince gets what he wants in the end.

    not taking away the fact he has beaten hogan\andre. thats badass. Ive just never been as impressed with a 'bulldozer' type guy. i am much more excited by a technical match rather than a powerhouse match. just personal preference. i say, let 'creative' make the storylines & let the guys go on the mic & in the ring.


    it all comes down to criteria you choose to vote by. i think in an unscripted wrestling match, batista would win. If Andre fought Warrior in the same way, he would have squashed him. Kayfabe aside, Warrior was shit in my eyes & by the looks of it, a few others as well.
     
    #34
  10. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2,711
    Likes Received:
    1,275
    I will have to go with my main man Dave here. Very similar, the tow of them. Both were quite entertaining in the ring at times, if not mostly for their flubs and tomfollery and tats and facepaint. Such unique, awe inspiring individuals, these.

    However, the reason I'm going with Batista is becaue of his superior incoherent promos. Sure, Warrior is pretty crazy and incoherent, Hulk Hogan, but Batista is a rock star at speaking strangely and awkwardly as well, giving him my vote.
     
    #35
  11. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    744
    Likes Received:
    1,607
    I'm going with the Warrior. Why? Honestly, because Tasty convinced me.

    We can't deny that the Ultimate Warrior was the destroyer of legends. He's defeated them ALL. His moves were unstoppable. His charisma was infectious. His look was impressive. The only thing he lacked was any kind of structure or sense in his promos... however, the "out-there" promo style of the Warrior just seemed to work because he was supposed to be an out-of-this-world anomaly of a character who could defeat gods amongst men... and he did.

    Batista is VERY similar to the Warrior in just about every way. However, Batista doesn't have the resume that can compare to the Warrior. Once again, not saying that the Warrior destroys Batista in that department. I'm merely saying that in my personal opinion, cleanly defeating a still-dominant Andre the Giant, a skilled Rick Rude, a masterful Randy Savage, and even fucking Hulk Hogan during an era where I could count on one hand how many matches the guy lost (and lost CLEAN, for that matter) is more dominant than defeating John Cena, Triple H, or HBK clean or with use of outside interference and cheating.

    This is the dream match that we've all wish would actually happen but we have to settle for in video games. But it depicts two unstoppable forces, one of whom has climbed to the top of nearly impossible mountains while the other won matches that were just par for the course in a pro-wrestling career.

    I've got to take the Warrior here.
     
    #36
  12. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Messages:
    6,092
    Likes Received:
    1,532
    So we have ourselves a Victor Conte on a pole match, do we? Is Bryan McNamee doing commentary with a bloody syringe and some gauze? Maybe Floyd Landis could ref?

    It bothers me that Batista's career didn't really get started until he was in his early 40's - well past his athletic prime. The dude is built like the ultimate athlete (no pun intended) but Warrior is right there with him. I could buy someone arguing that Batista had better tutilage with guys like Flair and HHH mentoring him, whereas Warrior worked along much of the time. But at the end of the day, the track record Warrior had of defeating top guys - Tastycles named them - is hard to bypass.

    From Wrestlemania 1 through Wrestlemania 9, there were only 3 (33%) of them where Hulk Hogan did not walk out as WWF Champion. At Wrestlemania 4, he was involved in a double DQ and helped Savage walk out with the title. At Wrestlemania 8, he wasn't involved in the title match but still Main Evented. At Wrestlemania 6, however, Hogan walked out of the building sans WWF Title because he was beaten clean by Warrior. It's REALLY hard to get past that.

    It's going to take a certain type of wrestler to beat Warrior. Andre in his prime could. Hansen could. Vader could. Funk could. Benoit could. Hart could. Hogan may, except a majority of haters would just say "Warrior beat Hogan, so Warrior wins here." Batista is SO similar to Warrior that he cannot negate anything Warrior does.
     
    #37
  13. LigerBomb

    LigerBomb Getting Noticed By Management

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    367
    I imagine this like a kind of SAT question

    Batista:Mason Ryan as Ultimate Warrior:Batista

    Granted Renegade would be more apt but the less we talk about that sad bastard the better. The point is it's the shame shtick in a lot of ways. So who did it better? Warrior "don't call me Jim Hellwig" Warrior of course! If there can only be one insane, selfish, steroided freak-show who didn't know a wrist-lock from a wrist watch© at least pick the one who at his zenith was almost able to have Hulk Hogan level appeal.
     
    #38
  14. wrestlingfan

    wrestlingfan Championship Contender

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    47
    Warrior just doesnt shcok me. He just seemed like some guy that jumped around the ring, hit a finisher the end. Even when he beat Hogan he wasn't a credible enough superstar, eventually leave some of the torch to burn out. Batista seemed more legit, and's feuded with th ebest and beaten some of the best. my vote goes for Batista.
     
    #39
  15. shattered dreams

    shattered dreams Hexagonal Hedonist

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,522
    Likes Received:
    975
    I voted Batista. I'd be lying if all the beyond the ring stuff with Ultimate Warrior did not factor in some. However, I think there is some legitimacy in acknowledging it here. If there is one thing Batista clearly did better than Warrior it is rub the right people right. Put Batista back in the old school and I do not see why he couldn't have had a similar run. Batista has a noticeable height advantage and arguably more impressive power game.
     
    #40
  16. PsychoBlack

    PsychoBlack Damn it feels good to be a Taylor!!

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Messages:
    614
    Likes Received:
    91
    Well, Tasty took you youngsters to school and even before i read that post i voted for Warrior. Reason being is that Batista really only entertained me as a member of Evolution and when he was feuding with Evolution, While Warrior on the other hand not only provided me with one of my favorite wrestling moments ever also was just all sorts of awesome. He was not very good in the ring but he just had an "it" factor to him that allowed for him to win a majority of people over. I'm not old enough to Remember Warrior in his prim but the one thing i do remember about him trumps anything Batista has ever done in my book, here it is.

    [YOUTUBE]uKRuGZ6I1iM[/YOUTUBE]
    [YOUTUBE]GpOxXSa9akA[/YOUTUBE]
    Warrior had Hollywood Hogan arguably the most badass character of all time shaking in his boots. As a little kid this along with Sting beating up the nWo was the coolest thing I had ever seen.
     
    #41
  17. JGlass

    JGlass Unregistered User

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    2,635
    In honor of tying it up, I figured I might as well give my posted vote in case it comes down to a tie breaker, which is looking extremely likely right now.

    I voted Batista. Why? Because he is the lesser of two evils. I like Batista better than Ultimate Warrior because at the very least, Batista entertained me on occasion during his career. Now I was too young to theoretically enjoy Warrior's career, but everything I have seen is pure shit, and he's not for me in the slightest.

    Once again, that's a vote for Batista.
     
    #42
  18. UltimateHitman

    UltimateHitman Old School Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    165
    The WCW promo was epic. I remember watching it when it happened, and I was just in awe. He totally owned Hogan. In recent weeks we've heard how Rock came back after being out for so long to cut a flawless promo. Well, in Warrior's case, he came back from a lengthy absence and cut an even better one than he used to before without missing a beat.

    Warrior was who he was. He was booked as the ultimate super hero back in the day. He went over Hulk freakin' Hogan in his prime. His energy and explosive attitude was just amazing.

    I think that's all that needs to be said about that.
     
    #43
  19. The Bearded One

    The Bearded One Love is not admissable evidence.

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    380
    Ultimate Warrior was my favorite wrestler as a kid. Whenever he came on tv I freaked out like nothing else mattered. Warrior gets a lot of shit for being an awful wrestler, but he had some amazing matches during his WWF career. He was the first to beat Hogan at WrestleMania in a great match at WrestleMania VI, a match in which he won his. He forced Randy Savage to retire by defeating him in a classic the next year at WrestleMania VII in an all-time classic. He defeated the WWF Champion Randy Savage at SummerSlam 1992 in another great match, but he won by count-out and he didn't win the belt.

    He is a two-time Intercontinental Champion, winning the belt at SummerSlam 1988 and 1989. He beat the IC Champion Honky Tonk Man in 13 seconds in 1988 and defeated Rick Rude in a great match for the belt in 1989. So when people say the Ultimate Warrior is a horrible wrestler, I have to disagree because of all the great matches he put on.

    Warrior also gets a lot of shit for his crazy promos, but I think they are great and fit his gimmick perfectly. I always understood what he was trying to say. He always had the same basic message as Hulk Hogan, except he said it in more over-the-top ways.

    The Ultimate Warrior is one of my all-time favorites, so I have to go with him in the match.
     
    #44

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"