New York Region, Third Round: No Disqualification: (3) Kurt Angle vs. (6) AJ Styles

Discussion in 'New York Region' started by klunderbunker, Mar 10, 2011.

?

Who Wins This Match

  1. Kurt Angle

  2. AJ Styles

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    The following contest is a third round match in the New York Region.

    This match takes place in Madison Square Garden, New York City, New York.

    [​IMG]

    It is a No Disqualification Match.

    Rules: In this contest there are no disqualifications and victory is attained through pinfall or submission.

    #3 Kurt Angle

    [​IMG]

    Vs.

    #6 AJ Styles

    [​IMG]

    This contest is one fall with a 30 minute time limit. The match will take place in a 16 x 16 ring with no ramp leading to it. Any traditional managers for either competitor will be allowed at ringside.

    As for voting, vote for who you think would win this match based on the criteria you choose. Some suggestions would be (not limited to): in ring ability, overall skill, their level of influence at the highest point in their career, ability to connect with the crowd, experience in major matches or simply personal preference etc.

    The most votes in the voting period wins and in the case of a tie, the most written votes wins. There is one written vote per user, meaning if a poster make ten posts saying Bret should win that will count as a single vote. In the event of a second tie, both men are ELIMINATED, no questions asked. Only winners advance.

    Voting will open in 48 hours and will be open for five days and all posts must be non-spam. You may use the 48 hours to present your cases as to why either competitor should/should not win.​
     
    #1
  2. JGlass

    JGlass Unregistered User

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    This is Angle's match to win. The no DQ stipulation doesn't really help or hurt either man. One could argue that this allows Fortune to come out and help AJ Styles, but then it also allows the MEM to help Angle or Immortal to hold back AJ. Therefore, I think it's best if we just leave the factions out of it.

    Both men are tremendous wrestlers. Angle is better. Both men are tremendous performers. Angle is better. Both men are good on the mic, over with the crowd, and have the ability to make a feud red hot. Angle is better. If I was starting a wrestling federation and I had to choose between Kurt Angle in his prime and AJ Styles in his prime, I'd take Kurt Angle.

    As I said, this No DQ stipulation really doesn't favor either men. Each has had experience in these matches, and neither one is particularly renowned for being great in this match. That said, I think the No DQ stipulation will allow Kurt to use weapons and the environment to do a lot of harm to AJ Style's ankle. He can spend as much time outside the ring as he wants and use the steel steps to smash Styles' ankle into the pavement. He can roll AJ back in the ring, lock on the Ankle Lock, and make Styles tap out.

    That's not to say that Style won't be able to use the No DQ stipulation to his advantage as well, but his attack won't be as focused as Kurt's. While Kurt can put all his effort into taking out AJ's ankle, Styles will have to work over all of Kurt's body in order to capitalize on his big moves.

    Kurt's the better wrestler and this stipulation just barely favors him. Vote Angle.
     
    #2
  3. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    These two wrestle each other all the fucking time, so I think there's more than enough evidence to come to a firm conclusion on this one. AJ Styles has had a less significant career than Angle, he's won fewer matches, he's won less championships, but history has shown that he absolutely has Kurt Angle's number. According to the internet, these two have wrestled 11 times, of which Angle has won 3. Styles has won 8 of the other 9, and, most tellingly won their last man standing encounter, the one which is closest in style to this. With that in mind, you have to give this to AJ, as both as heel and face against a heel and face Angle, he has been able to win, and I think he can do it here.
     
    #3
  4. I Suck Ass

    I Suck Ass I survived the Rapture

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    This one goes to Angle. The stip doesn't make a huge difference here. AJ won most or all of TNA's titles. Angle? Most of WWE's titles, along with TNA's world title. I don't really see how AJ can beat Angle, and I'm not going to focus on their actual matches, because some of those may have had interference, and I'm not going to try and dig that deep. Angle wins this, but it's gonna be close.
     
    #4
  5. The Crock

    The Crock WOO!

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    So what if Angle has won titles in the WWE? That is totally irrelevant here. Styles and Angle are on a more even playing field at this point. While Angle is a bigger legend in the business, that won't carry him to a win over Styles. Last I checked, I'd actually favor Styles in this environment. Styles picked up a win over Angle in a Last Man Standing match, he got Kurt to be non-responsive. That's something that is truly a feat that only a select few can carry around with them.

    The no DQ stipulation can only work in Styles' favor here. If Styles can't compete with Angle's technical style at some point, he can always pull in a weapon. He can cut down Angle and weaken him to the point where his high flying moves can come as an advantage to him. Styles has the edge over Angle, always has. Don't believe me - See Tasty's post. That says it all. Angle has barely won any against Styles, whereas AJ seems to have Angle's number.

    AJ wins this by a slim margin.
     
    #5
  6. The Holy One

    The Holy One What's really good?

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    As Tastycles said, AJ has Kurt's number. I don't see AJ losing here either as he's beaten Kurt in matches similar to this before. Unless it was a Tables match, Kurt could have had a chance, but it's not. AJ simply knows how to beat Angle whether it's a regular or No DQ match. I see the match ending with a Styles Clash on a chair at the 22 minute mark of the match.
     
    #6
  7. PsychoBlack

    PsychoBlack Damn it feels good to be a Taylor!!

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    In Kurt's prime he lived for this type of match. I can't see any scenario where AJ wins this one. A prime Kurt Angle was a dangerous motherfucker no matter what type of match and no matter who the opponent was I'd put my money on him against anyone in a match were being crazy is a positive.
     
    #7
  8. shattered dreams

    shattered dreams Hexagonal Hedonist

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    AJ has Kurt's number when AJ is in his prime and Kurt is at the end of his career, yes. Now when we equalize the playing fields it is Kurt by a mile. AJ Styles is an extremely talented all around performer. That being said I am struggling to think of any area, kayfabe or not, he is clearly better than Kurt in except for being better at high flying and probably speed (things that are not of much use here). Kurt is just that damn good and his career shows this. If the gimmick played to AJ's strengths I might have considered him but it doesn't.
     
    #8
  9. Big Nick Dudley

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    Yeah, I'm with Shattered (weird, I know). I usually go by each man in his prime, and A.J. hasn't beaten that Kurt Angle.

    In NO D.Q. matches, Angle has beaten The Rock, Rob Van Dam, and The Big Show & Brock Lesnar (3-way). Not to mention, Angle has won a six-way Hell In A Cell match against Rikishi, Steve Austin, The Undertaker, HHH and The Rock, and he's beaten John Cena in a First Blood match. Angle knows how to get it done in this environment, against better competition than A.J. has faced.

    If I felt A.J. had gone over Kurt in his prime, I wouldn't have a problem giving this to Styles. However, Kurt has beaten all the big names of his generation, in similar matches, and A.J. has not.

    Kurt takes this one in what would most certainly be a classic.
     
    #9
  10. ABMorales787

    ABMorales787 Lord And Master
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    AJ wins in my eyes. While Kurt may be one dangerous S.O.B. in this kind of match, AJ has shown to be as deadly and even more cunning. Remember his Cage match versus Abyss? He slid under the rails, he jumped from just about everywhere and had a very fit and capable Abyss on the ropes the entire match. Yeah, Kurt's very aggressive. But to be aggressive, he needs to have his opponent in his hands. Not something AJ's fond of. He's not a straight shooting kind of guy. He won't just go straight into you with a clenched fist.

    People bring up how Kurt wasn't in his prime during their long series of matches. First off, I call B.S. As if that stopped them from stealing the show various times. Second, it's Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles. Kurt has sang this man's praises for years. If not just AJ's ability wage your vote, think of the booking then. You can easily find Kurt putting AJ over.

    If it were a submission match or an Iron Man match, I could see Kurt winning. But this is No DQ. It's an even field. Just like any other time these guys face off. 9 out of 11, AJ Styles wins.
     
    #10
  11. JGlass

    JGlass Unregistered User

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    People keep bringing up the argument that AJ has Kurt's number, but that's not exactly a fair comparison. In any match AJ has faced off against Kurt in, Mr. Angle has been long passed his prime. AJ, on the other hand, is right in the middle of his. So what does this tell us? A past his prime Angle can get the win on a prime AJ Styles, but AJ Styles can't always (usually can, but not always) beat Angle.

    So what makes you think that Styles would be able to take on Angle when Angle was in his prime? AJ Styles is a phenomenal talent, but Angle may very well be the best pure wrestler to ever step in the squared circle. Watch some of his greatest matches and you'll see how tremendous a talent this guy is. Even for being a little guy, he's one hell of a dangerous competitor. Fuck, this is a guy who has beaten Brock Lesnar, once by making him tap out.

    He's made STONE COLD tap out! Has AJ Styles ever beaten someone of Steve Austin's caliber? No, he has not. A prime Kurt Angle is far too dominant for AJ Styles to defeat.
     
    #11
  12. ABMorales787

    ABMorales787 Lord And Master
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    Long past his prime. What is he? In his 50's or something? Both Kurt and AJ debuted in pro wrestling in 1998. AJ of course, was in the indies. Sure, there's a 10 year gap in age. But are you really telling me that that makes Kurt weaker now than then? If this were the 80's it would be backwards. Angle would win because he's older and AJ's wet behind the years. And I'd still consider that argument utter crap. That never stopped Shawn Michaels from performing as well as he did the last 8 years of his career. Hell, it can be argued that it was a better period of his career than when he was a main eventer in WWE. In my eyes, age don't mean much shit to me. If Angle were in his 60's were when he wrestled a 30 year old AJ, then we could talk about age as a factor.

    Again, in my eyes, AJ. Faster, simply faster. When it comes to Angle, speed did everything for him. His timing when hitting a Suplex. Springing to his feet and jumping to the top rope for a Belly To Belly. Surprise Ankle Locks. His game has always been about speed. So is AJ's. AJ has been visibly more agile than Kurt. So I'd say AJ is faster. Something Kurt's never dealt with without his opponent being notably smaller (Rey Mysterio).


    Angle was a patriotic face and Austin was a heel traitor. In no other circumstance would that happen.
     
    #12
  13. JGlass

    JGlass Unregistered User

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    Yes. His prime was when he was in the WWE and being booked as one of the toughest guys in the company. Now TNA booked him tough too, but clearly not as tough as he was in WWE. And he was going up against AJ Styles, a sort of John Cena of TNA, of course he's going to lose more often than not.

    Wet behind the ears, you mean. I don't see how this is relevant, though, as this is not the 80s.
    The prime of one's career doesn't always have to do with age. There are some guys like HBK and Taker who are booked strongly to the end. Kurt Angle is not one of those guys.

    You're the one who brought age into this, not me. I suppose saying "long past his prime" was a bit of a stretch, but fact of the matter is that the best years of Angles career were behind him. He wasn't going to be defeating the top faces in the world anymore when he left WWE.

    I wouldn't say it has to do with speed as it has to do with technical prowess and being able to transition from one position to the next. And if you want to talk about speed and agility, look no further than his matches with Shawn Michaels. He proved that he more than capable of dispatching a competitor that was supposedly quicker and faster than he was.


    So then, by this logic, I can't vote for Hulk Hogan because he was a megaface in the 80s and early 90s and therefore never lost? This is bullshit, this is wrestling, and sometimes the good guys win, and sometimes the bad guys win. The fact of the matter is, when Angle made Austin tap, Austin was still a force to be reckoned with and Angle made him tap.
     
    #13
  14. Coco

    Coco Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    This is a bizarre argument. As I see it, there are two versions of Kurt Angle. One is the goofy, fun-loving Kurt Angle of yesteryear who it could be argued is simply an overachieving midcarder. The other is SUPER INTENSE WRESTLING LEGEND Kurt Angle, a true main eventer and a much meaner, leaner looking motherfucker. If you were going to pick one of those as Angle's prime, I don't know why you'd argue that the former is it. I also don't know why you'd bring up primes and then mention a victory over Austin at the tail end of the Attitude Era when Austin was on his last legs as a major player.

    All things considered, I reckon modern Kurt Angle is Angle's prime and an extension of intense Angle from late in his WWE run. I just recently rewatched his match with Desmond Wolfe from Turning Point '09 and one of the things that struck me was that Angle has aged well as a performer and is still going as hard as he was in 2003. You'd have a hard time convincing me that his prime doesn't overlap with his entire TNA run in which AJ Styles has owned Angle throughout. As such, I'm all about AJ in this one.

    LOL. Unforgiven 2001. Puh lease. Yeah, Angle was such a big deal that he went on to face a floundering Kane at the next WrestleMania and became Edge's whipping boy in the months which followed. That's what you consider someone's prime? Give me a break.
     
    #14
  15. JGlass

    JGlass Unregistered User

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    So... you're saying that because he scored a victory over one of the greatest wrestlers of all time before Kurt was in his prime, it doesn't count? I had no intention of saying that 2001 was Kurt's prime, but it's worth mentioning that he was able to defeat Stone Cold Steve Austin.

    I disagree. He was beating dominant wrestlers like Brock Lesnar and legends like HBK during his prime. He hasn't faced anyone nearly the caliber of either of those guys since going to TNA.

    Would you argue that HBK's final two/three years were his prime considering he put on fantastic feuds and amazing matches? I wouldn't.

    How dare you steal puh-lease from me.

    Doesn't change the fact that he made Stone Cold tap out. And did I ever say it was his prime? No, I said that he did it, and that in his prime Stone Cold would be too dominant for AJ Styles to handle. If Angle could make a tough mother fucker like Brock Lesnar tap out in his prime, I doubt a guy like AJ Styles could stand much of a chance.
     
    #15
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  16. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    Going on what others have said, since I'm not that original. AJ holds a 7-4 advantage all time against Angle, a lot of those matches being on a big stage or under no DQ-like conditions. Also, he is pretty damn entertaining in the ring. At one point he was the best thing in TNA, before they fucked it all up.

    I am, I am, I am voting for AJ Styles here.
     
    #16
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  17. Hulk Hogan's Brother

    Hulk Hogan's Brother Stop asking me what I'm gonna do!!!

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    I think that I will have to give the edge to AJ here. As GD mentioned Styles is 7-4 against Angle in one on one matches. What is more interesting is that when the two have collided in a hardcore setting, Styles record is 2-0. Styles has won a last man standing match against Angle as well as a ladder match against him.

    Both guys have a good record in No DQ or similar type of matches but if you look at AJ's career you will find that he has a better record in these type of matches.

    Also the suggestion that Kurt was past his prime in TNA is a wrong one. Kurt has always been booked very strongly in TNA, perhaps even more strongly than he was in WWE. He may have defeated bigger names like Austin in the WWE but that is only because there have been bigger names in the WWE, guys whom AJ has never had the opportunity to face. He has also lost to those big names a number of times in WWE. In TNA he has defeated almost everyone TNA has had to offer and since joining he has been the franchise player of the company. He was one of the main reasons that TNA was able to achieve mainstream recognition and yet AJ Styles has generally been booked to defeat him. That shows how much respect TNA has for Styles and how much he means to TNA because they have let him defeat Angle in Angle's prime. He has a superior record against most men in TNA save for perhaps AJ Styles.

    Yes I am suggesting that Angle's prime, at least kayfabe wise has been in TNA. In the WWF and WWE, even in his hottest phases, he was just another main eventer while in TNA he is the main eventer that counts. So AJ Styles has beaten Kurt Angle in his prime.

    Vote for AJ!!!
     
    #17
  18. Coco

    Coco Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    After Austin's prime. At a time Austin was weaker than he'd ever looked during his main event run. Honestly, you can point out the win all you want. But if you want to talk about primes, give people the proper context about where Austin was at this point and let people make up their minds. To do otherwise would be irresponsible.

    There's very little criteria for direct comparisons between HBK/Lesnar and Joe circa 2006, a still credible Sting, and the other legitimate TNA threats Angle has faced. Sure, TNA is a smaller company. But I don't think that says anything about the quality of talent which works there. After all, they snagged Kurt Angle. Legit threats work there.

    Considering HBK almost always looked stronger than most people in kayfabe, I'd argue his prime is from '95/'96 onward. A lengthy prime, sure, but it's not like his winning ways ever cooled off.

    But how weak Austin looked at the time definitely puts the feat in perspective.

    Nope. But you sure didn't stop people from assuming that was the case.

    There's no proof of this. Very little criteria for direct comparison.

    Pure conjecture and utter WWE favoritism. I refuse to play such games. Rather, I'll use the real life examples where AJ has defeated a Kurt Angle who still wins frequently as the basis for my choice. Weird how AJ backers don't have to reach so far to justify their choice here. Almost as though the truth is in Styles' court.

    Get ready to fly, people: Vote Styles.
     
    #18
  19. JGlass

    JGlass Unregistered User

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    Making Stone Cold tap is always something worth looking at. I will agree, it was the weakest point so far in Stone Cold's career, but it's not like he was a hobbling around old man. He was still a dominant wrestler. Hell, the next PPV he won the belt back by defeating Angle and RVD in a triple threat, and he went on to beat Rock to retain, albeit with a little help from a friend, but still proving he was a dominant enough guy to keep the strap on.


    Hey, speaking of Joe, who was it that ended his undefeated streak? That would be Kurt Angle. You make an interesting point, while Joe isn't really the wrestler that Brock was, he was certainly being booked as one, but Kurt dispatched him too.

    He also beat Joe in a 2/3 falls match, which I think shows that he can go the distance with a tough, brutal competitor. I'd say this is more a sign of Kurt's prime than him losing to AJ Styles. Around the same time he also won in a triple threat with Christian and Sting and he won a King of the Mountain match with Christian, Samoa Joe, Chris Harris, and AJ Styles. Again, beating top competitors, winning tough matches with multiple competitors, all indicators of this being closer to Angle's prime. It was mostly downhill from here. That's not to say there weren't some strong points for Kurt, and that's not to say he was a shadow of his former self, but he was no longer in his prime.

    That's my point, just because you put on good matches doesn't mean it's your prime. When it comes to wrestlers like HBK and Kurt Angle who had dominant years and beat top wrestlers, I'd argue their primes are when they were beating the best their companies had to offer.


    Weak compared to... Stone Cold Steve Austin of a year earlier?

    I'm sure I'm the only one guilty of this crime.

    I actually misspoke, I meant to say in his prime, Angle would be too dominant for AJ Styles to handle.

    I gave some examples of Kurt dominating TNA to appease you, and he did dominate TNA. And who's reaching? I'm simply some of Kurt Angle's greatest hits, people he has defeated. I can't help it if that list is too impressive for you to handle.

    Vote for the better wrestler here boys and girls, vote Kurt Angle.
     
    #19
  20. Coco

    Coco Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Cheap heel bologna, all of it. He was weak and when December rolled around, he'd drop the belt for the final time. It was the end of Austin.

    How is he no longer in his prime? He's working at the top of the card on a regular basis and is booked on par with the top names in the company. Age isn't an issue. He's still booked as one of the best. That's the reality. Downhill? Hardly.

    They're always beating the best in their respective companies. Thus, they're still in their kayfabe prime.

    Austin was injured a year prior. Try a year before that.

    Yeah, that'll hold up in court.

    Angle's been in his prime for his entire TNA run. I understand perfectly what you're trying to say. But when Angle's been booked like a world ender for his entire TNA run, you're wrong.

    What the fuck are you talking about? Too impressive for me to handle? What gives you that impression? If anything, all I'm saying is Kurt was at his world ending best when Styles beat him again and again.
     
    #20
  21. hatehabsforever

    hatehabsforever Moderator
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    This one was one of the tougher ones thus far. Two exceptional wrestlers, both of whom are amongst the most technically adept at what they do. AJ Styles is a tremendous athlete who continues to impress the masses in TNA. Fair to say he is (arguably) the best wrestler in the business today.

    If it were Styles versus Angle today, it may be even tougher to choose. But if it is AJ in his prime, today, versus Angle of a few years ago, when he was still at his absolute best, I would have to give the edge to the Olympic champion. Angle is simply better than Styles. He is more charismatic, more versatile, and better both in terms of in ring ability and mic skills.

    Plus, Angle has proven it in both the major leagues and the minors, whereas Styles has yet to prove himself outside of the iMPACT zone. It is easier to be a big fish in a little pond, it is something else altogether to do it in front of a global audience on the grandest stage of them all. That is not to suggest that Styles couldn't do it, but simply, that he hasn't, yet.

    And it is a no DQ match, and Angle definitely has more of an edge to him than does the blander Styles.

    One of the more entertaining matches to date, but the nod goes toAngle here.
     
    #21
  22. Coco

    Coco Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Does that even mean anything? I mean really, where did you get this notion from? Is this to somehow imply that Styles can't handle no holds barred situations? Positively absurd.

    I'd have responded to the rest of your post, but it's the usual pro-WWE garbage from you. Oh, Angle competed on the big stage? Well whoop-dee-fucking-doo. All that big match experience sure never helped Angle, who was still at the top of his game in terms of winning big matches, against Styles in the past.

    There's a strong anti-TNA bias in this thread. I can sense it. Now I know how shattered, IDR, and the rest of the rug rats feel.
     
    #22
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  23. hatehabsforever

    hatehabsforever Moderator
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    Did I say that Styles cannot handle no holds barred scenarios? Don't think so. I simply suggested that Angle would handle them better. Because as a face (primarily), Styles's style is less suited to no DQ situations than is Angle's style. That is not to suggest that Styles cannot do it, just that he cannot do it as well as Angle does, and has.

    I see what you mean about the anti-TNA bias though. Calling Styles exceptional, tremendous, and the best in the business today, how dare I express such strong anti-TNA sentiments. Suggesting that Styles versus Angle today would possibly result in a Styles victory, but a Styles/Angle match in terms of their primes would result in a slight edge to Angle, damn my anti-TNA rhetoric and pro-WWE bias.

    You can discount it all you like, but the fact that Angle has had WWF/WWE/RAW/Smackdown/ECW/TNA experience, as opposed to Styles who has TNA experience only gives an edge to Angle, it has to. That is not a bias, it is a reality.

    Angle would use his additional experience to defeat AJ Styles in a very competitive matchup, much like Bockwinkel did in Round One ;)
     
    #23
  24. Coco

    Coco Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    And yet AJ defeated Kurt Angle in a Last Man Standing bout at Hard Justice '08. It's almost as though your silly little speculation is not reflected in the reality of the situation.

    Clear as day to me. "Angle was at the top of the WWE at one point, thus AJ the TNA guy would lose to him." When that's the gist of it, I'm not in the wrong to call you out for exhibiting your regular bias.

    AJ's competed on the indy scene and internationally. Not like he's never worked outside of TNA.

    In addition, for all of Angle's experience, it sure hasn't helped him against AJ at a time when Angle was still winning big matches regularly. That's a reality.

    Not sure what point you're trying to make.

    Vote AJ.
     
    #24
  25. SavageTaker

    SavageTaker Everybody Has A Price!

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    Are people really trying to justify why Angle beats AJ? REALLY?

    It is a proven fact that most of the times Angle has faced AJ he has lost, there is no way anyone can deny that nor try to belittle it. Lets look at all of the times they've wrestled according to wikipedia:


    Slammiversary 2008: Angle lost in a regular match.
    Hard Justice 2008: Angle lost in a Last Man Standing Match.
    On an episode of Impact: Angle lost in a mock amateur match. And on a different episode Angle lost to Styles in a ladder match.
    On the first Impact on a Monday, once again, Angle lost to AJ in a regular match.
    Genesis 2010: Angle loses YET AGAIN to AJ in a regular match.
    On a July edition of Impact: Angle is able to finally get a win after losing many times to AJ.


    Those are the matches I found on Wikipedia and I am sure there are many more matches. But all of those matches are factual prove that AJ has got Angle's number because he has beaten him multiple times in various types of matches. Whether Angle was in his prime or not is debateble, but people still can't deny that Angle didn't bring his “A” game and lost 85% of the times they've wrestled. Angle is a great wrestler and all and I won't descredit him but Styles is just the better wrestler here and deserves to move on.

    Statistics and Facts don't lie Ladies and Gentlemen, do the right thing and vote the better wrestler, AJ Styles.
     
    #25

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