Monday Night RAW Sucks

Discussion in '[Hidden] World Wrestling Entertainment' started by Pay Per Ghost, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. Radical

    Radical Championship Contender

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    WWE seems to book Raw in a way that actively tries to get fans out of interest and emotion with the show.

    When Roman Reigns is getting heavy boos and he isn't even acting heelish, just imagine how much MORE heat he would get if he took that and ran with it. If he was able to trash talk the fans, build a "Roman Empire" faction and send his supporters out to do dirty work for him. He'd be an even bigger heel and one that most fans couldn't WAIT to see get his ass kicked! (That's WHAT YOU WANT the fans to feel if pro wrestling is done right)

    Then, you just need to get the natural babyface (or babyfaces) to feud against him. They get chances but get screwed over. They sometimes get a bit of revenge in a segment or two but ultimately you build to the PPV where the babyface gets a big chance to beat the evil heel. And you can stretch that out over 2-3 months depending how you do that. But Roman being heel can last as long as he gets good heel heat.


    Braun Strowman is over as a monster babyface. Brock Lesnar is the Universal Champ but because he's not there very much it's so hard to build a narrative for the show that's really intense and intriguing.

    I hate to call back to the AE, but imagine if when heel Triple H and his faction were running rampant in WWF, working dirty, using manipulation and under-handed tactics to win .... if all those tactics and heat-earning trash talk and promos had NOTHING to do with the WWF Title and the WWF Title was not on the show, some other guy was holding it and it rarely was brought up.

    Would that not be one of the most foolish things to do if they have any hope to retain or gain viewership?

    They were already WINNING the WWF vs WCW war in 2000 yet they didn't just sit there and give up with intense storylines based around the WWF Title.

    What if, Braun Strowman, the accepted monster babyface came out on Raw and said he is SICK AND TIRED of Universal Champ Lesnar being absent. (Much more meaningful coming from Braun instead of Roman, because Roman is not an accepted babyface) And he DEMANDS either Lesnar start showing up AND DEFEND his Universal Title or HE will FIND HIM and MAKE HIM! Just that statement alone would set an interesting tone!

    Then, so much could happen from there. Braun could end up doing remote pieces where he shows up at a place he knows Lesnar is going to be, or maybe he find Heyman and get Heyman to tell where Lesnar is, then Braun gets Lesnar in the ring and in a Raw match for the Universal Title ... looks like he's going to win but some screwy, heelish finish happens and Lesnar gets away ... this would lead to a great PPV match for the title which Braun should then WIN and FINALLY Braun will be Universal Champ and have a good reason to tune into Raw every night to find out: a. What will Lesnar do now that he lost the title? What will the rematch be like? b. If Lesnar can't beat Braun then who on earth can stop Braun? (And this would be a good place for a heel Roman Reigns faction to work)



    This is part of the reason I say Raw is too relaxed and disjointed. It's disjointed because a lot of the time the natural heels and faces aren't allowed to play those characters and it's too relaxed because Raw is 3 damn hours and it's 10x LESS interesting and intense than 2 hours of any random Raw from 18-20 years ago.


    That said, it is NOT super far off for WWE and Raw to get back to a better show.
     
    #26
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  2. Ex-Degenerate

    Ex-Degenerate Occasional Pre-Show

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    Problem is, WWE doesn't care about TV ratings anymore, as there is no real competition. All they care about are network subscriptions and social media activity.

    RAW should not be three plus hours long, It seems like they have no long-term direction. You have a champion who is nob-existent, and your supposed top babyface, Reigns, is getting a heal reaction whenever he is in the building. They promoted as this unstoppable monster, only to have him win the tag titles at mania with a child, and the whole "These hands" gimmick that was out of character for him. and since they have no idea what to do with him. OWens has been a disappointment since coming over, Roode needs to be a heel, and the tag division is a joke with the B team and Rhino/Slater, and no storyline for Wyatt and Hardy. The Woman's division has been terrible since Alexa Bliss dropped the title and Asuka moved to Smackdown.

    Raw has only two goods things going now, Rollins and Elias. They are the only reasons to watch.
     
    #27
  3. Ex-Degenerate

    Ex-Degenerate Occasional Pre-Show

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    Problem is, WWE doesn't care about TV ratings anymore, as there is no real competition. All they care about are network subscriptions and social media activity.

    RAW should not be three plus hours long, It seems like they have no long-term direction. You have a champion who is nob-existent, and your supposed top babyface, Reigns, is getting a heal reaction whenever he is in the building. They promoted as this unstoppable monster, only to have him win the tag titles at mania with a child, and the whole "These hands" gimmick that was out of character for him. and since they have no idea what to do with him. OWens has been a disappointment since coming over, Roode needs to be a heel, and the tag division is a joke with the B team and Rhino/Slater, and no storyline for Wyatt and Hardy. The Woman's division has been terrible since Alexa Bliss dropped the title and Asuka moved to Smackdown.

    Raw has only two goods things going now, Rollins and Elias. They are the only reasons to watch.
     
    #28
  4. Jeff Deliverer of Mail

    Jeff Deliverer of Mail Money for nothin, chicks for free
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    I've not missed a WWE PPV in 2 straight years. Then Greatest Royal Rumble came around and it was a disaster so I skipped half of it. Then skipped the next PPV entirely. I don't watch Raw or SD at all anymore and really didn't on a regular basis anyway. Where are the compelling stories? Where's the dominant heel faction? The world title isn't even on the show, and the WWE has the best roster they've ever had. Just look at the talent they have top to bottom and SOMEHOW they don't have ONE compelling storyline going on at Raw. Its unbelievable. Just do a quick internet search and check out a random Raw from June 1997. Half the talent but immediately you see they have The Hart Foundation in the middle or revolving around the main stories with HBK picking at them. Undertaker wrestling regularly so he's a walking storyline on his own. Just those two things would make me want to watch Raw. WWE currently doesn't know how to make their show interesting or tell any kind of story to make their product watchable.
     
    #29
  5. Radical

    Radical Championship Contender

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    Good points made all around.

    It's like WWE forgot what made them most popular in the late 90s, early 2000s. And people think it was just the swearing, blood and scantily clad women. But really, that was only a side thing. I mean there were things back then couldn't do now, like men hitting women and regular hardcore matches. But, you could still do MOST of the things done back then just the same today.

    In fact, it's been about 20 years, and a lot of the WWE fans are young kids so "Creative" could literally just take the storylines from any random period in the AE and copy and paste the feuds and actions and give them to the current roster and the kids wouldn't really notice. They would probably be shocked at how good the storylines actually are.


    And even if they don't want to do that, fine, but don't forget what makes good, compelling storytelling: Villainous characters you hate and want to see them get comeuppance, popular, likeable characters that you want to see succeed and a constantly building feud between these characters that culminates at a climax (usually the PPV match).

    And if you look at Raw right now it's very hard to find anything compelling with those types of characters. It's like WWE gave up on having actual heels, doing dirty, despicable things.

    Where are the heels on Raw? Elias is the closest one, as he'll give out surprise attacks with a guitar or something like that. Corbin might be a heel but he's not heelish enough, often enough for anyone to care about. Owens has decent trash talk but doesn't really do much dirty work and his in-ring style is kind of fun so it's hard to not like him.

    Don't even get me started on the Women's Division. This whole "I respect you ... so let's FIGHT!" has got to go. I don't want to see two people face off who respect each other before they've had enough of a career in the business to have earned that respect. And whoever is playing the heel should NOT be respecting the other opponent. That's not good, compelling storytelling.

    Imagine Gaston in Beauty and the Beast. If he saw the Beast and said "I respect you, I don't judge you by your appearance ... but, oh what the heck, let's still fight!" How dull would that be. I mean, we tell stories about heros overcoming the odds against villains because we like to see good prevail. But, even brothers in the same family fight and show disrespect to each other at times ... doesn't mean they can't later learn to understand each other better. And that's where turns come in, face turns and new alliances.

    But Raw is not "RAW" anymore, it's more like "Barely Raw, Mostly Soft and Cuddly." And if you want to watch that, watch Care Bears. Decent show for what it's worth, but if you watch Raw it should look and feel RAW and intense.
     
    #30
  6. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    The other problem you have right now is the fact that everything is on the internet and social media so it's getting harder and harder to create compelling T.V. when everything is expose on the internet.

    You look through the era, what made let's say the Rock & wrestling era so great, really when you look at it through 2018 eyes, they not really anything going on either during that era but the fact is you had maybe a handful of fans that knew what was going on backstage so it made it easier for the performers and for vince & company to create compelling t.v and characters that fans would buy into because the fans didn't think they had power over what was going on with the product, they just reacted to what they we're seeing and that's it.

    In way, that's pretty much what happened as well during the attitude era, when you look back at the era, it's probably some of the worst storytelling imaginable but at the time, fans bought into it because it was new and fresh and couldn't care less about all the backstage stuff.

    Now, it's a different story, fans thinks they know everything and will let there voice heard if the company doesn't do what they want them to do, which is making it harder for the performers to do their job. I'm going to take Bobby roode as a example since he's the perfect example of what a modern crowd can do to a character.

    Roode Came in and they started him as a Heel on NXT. He was doing a great job with the character except for one little detail, the NXT fans where cheering for him, which negated any type of heel persona the guy was trying to portrait. So naturally, when he got called up they turn him babyface right away because they realize that the heel persona wasn't working and now he's just another guy on the roster.

    Also, you have to take into consideration that Creative is one thing but you need to have performers that believe what they are given. If they just go out there and reciting their promo without putting some of their own character into it, that when the show fail. I just watch the segment we're the whole raw roster walk out on HHH and you had HHH,Cena, Sheamus and Punk all cutting promos in the ring and you couldn't tell that the whole segment was scripted for them because they put their own personality into what they were saying. Their not a lot of guy that do that anymore and that'S sad.

    The product suffers because the guys don'T care about being performers anymore. They want to be pro wrestlers and doesn't cares about the performance aspect of it. You need to have both if you want to be in the big leagues. The funny thing is, a lot of those that actually cares about that aspect, are the guys they don't use on a regular basis or just for on Main event. it'S like being on Raw is draining any type of passion for the business out of those same performers.

    In the end. We have to face the facts that Raw will be boring for most of the years since they know they got their fanbase and they are happy with that. Plus they are keeping Raw on USA for a while since they just renewed the contract for 5 years. The only difference between what's going to happen this year vs next year is that Raw will probably lose a lot of big stars since they will try to make Smackdown a big deal since it's on a bigger network.
     
    #31
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  7. HeenanGorilla

    HeenanGorilla Championship Contender

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    Just some food for thought, as someone whose biggest years of fandom were pre-Raw, yet still remember what it was like to look forward to Monday nights. I haven't looked forward to a Raw in ages, but--I guess out of habit--I always get a smidge of "Oh, right!" when I am scrolling through the channels and see that Raw is on. I more often than not turn it on, only to soon after think "Oh...right...". As some have already stated, it is horribly formulaic. I remember the days of being sure not to miss the first few minutes of Raw and/or Nitro. Now, it seems one could purposely miss the first few minutes of Raw...and yet miss nothing.

    Anyway, I could go on and on with what is wrong with today's product, but I am not interested enough to do so. As someone who used to look forward to Monday nights, I recently thought of going back and reliving Monday nights on Monday nights; watching Raw chronologically. I'm lucky, in a sense, that my days of being a HUGE WWF fan were behind me at this time, so a lot of my memory is foggy at best. Sure the bigger surprises or swerves I will remember or see coming. But, I think overall, I will get a lot more entertainment on Monday nights by watching these shows on the Network. Maybe I'll even make another night for Nitros from that same time period, so things like Rude being on both shows or the Outsiders jumping ship, for example, feel more impactful.

    This won't work for everyone. It works for me because a) I still have a love for what wrestling brought me as a kid, b) I remember that I really enjoyed the Monday Night Wars, c) I don't remember it as clearly as my years as a fan in childhood and d) I still enjoy the idea of wrestling being part of my Monday nights. I can track the World, IC and tag titles, in great detail, from the mid 80s to the mid 90s. But once the hot potato began, it's all a blur for the most part. So, I think these points put me in a good spot to go back and enjoy the past shows--having an idea of what's to come, but not being certain.

    Like I said, I know this won't work for everyone, but figured I would throw it out there in case any of you find yourself in the boat I'm in--great memories of the past, no interest in the current product, still wanting it to be a part of my future.

    For those who don't find themselves in this boat, I do hope the current product somehow improves for you. As I mentioned, the entertainment that wrestling brought to me as a kid still has an effect on my adult life. So, I do hope that those who truly want to be entertained by what wrestling CAN provide, get the chance to do so. Hopefully, the powers that be will take WWE off of autopilot and actually try to put on a show that at least looks like they're trying.
     
    #32
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  8. MWRedskins

    MWRedskins Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    let me first state this....i'm actually glad there's no dominant heel faction. as good as they were, i kinda get annoyed at seeing them too often....with that said, i'm sure one will return sometime...they always do.
    Now to something i disagree with....Smackdown has compelling stories. Nakamura vs. AJ turned from dream match to fun rivalry and i feel that a storyline with Samoa Joe will be great for Smackdown....they are slow building a story with Bryan vs. Miz. now RAW has a few issues..the biggest being Lesnar not being on the show when he won his match via controversy. instead of coming out and giving Roman a re-match, he has been off tv for months...makes the world champion out to be a coward in a way (and Lesnar isnt that). RAW has talent, but needs to use it correctly.

    The issue on RAW is SO easy to see...it's bad booking!!! Roode isnt in a compelling storyline because he's a heel being booked as a face...McIntyre (who can make a storyline compelling) is tag teaming with Ziggler and being eliminated first in a battle royal...please break them up as a tag team NOW! Lashley is in a storyline and again is being booked wrong. i love Sami Zayn as a heel, but i think a double turn IS needed here...make Sami to be the sympathetic face and make Lashley out to be the bully heel. Lashley is a great heel, but WWE seems like they forgot to watch how Impact booked Lashley, Impact maybe a bad show, but they used Bobby Lashley like he should be used. if there's no double turn, a good way to turn Lashley would be for him to screw Braun Strowman out of the MITB Briefcase.
     
    #33
  9. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    I realize watching last night raw why i'm still watching WWE. It's because it's supposed to be everything that Pro Wrestling isn't. It's supposed to be this off the wall over the top comic book style show with bad comedy and over the top characters. Last night was the first time in a while that i truly enjoy watching Raw because they went back to what WWE is suppose to be and that's the complete opposite of Pro Wrestling.

    The fact is, i was raise on WWF/E and when you look back from the very first day Vince took over from his day all the way to today, the product as always been like this. The last thing Vince want is to run a Wrestling company, he wants to run a entertainment company and that's what WWE is. If you want to watch Pro Wrestling, you go an watch NJPW or ROH or any other indy promotion that got a tv deal. If you want to watch sports entertainment, you go watch WWE.

    WWE was never Pro Wrestling and will never Be pro Wrestling, it's family entertainment and that's how they booked their show. Sure sometimes they will produce boring shows but that's part of the course when you have so much hour to fill. The thing is, it's for the hardcore fan base to decide if this is the type of entertainment they want to pay for or not. If that's not what you want, stop spending money on it and support the organization you do want to follow, it's as simple as that.
     
    #34
  10. Pay Per Ghost

    Pay Per Ghost squashed Disco Inferno to become

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    SD just blew RAW outta the water again.

    KO was mildly entertaining this time around.

    I caught Strowman's match, thats it.

    God fire all the RAW women talent, all of them are cringeworthy in the ring.

    INCLUDING Nia Jax.
     
    #35
  11. Ceen

    Ceen Occasional Pre-Show

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    The big problem are storylines... Okay, there are a few, but they can work better it terms of telling something... In RAW:
    Roman vs Jinder is probably the storyline with more wise, even it’s a really bad booked feud.
    Sami vs Lashley is awful, just last week was a bit good. And the WHY is so s*upid
    Seth vs Elias is a good feud, but build sooo late (just like two weeks) and doesn’t have that feeling
    Seeds for WokenFamily vs B-Team, but at least they are putting stones and not throwing to the PPV
    Ronda vs Nia is worst. Nia is a HEEL, he cannot work otherwise and she is green for a champion.
    Bayley vs Banks feud dissapear?
    Even the fourth men in the bank are not in a feud, rarher than Strowman vs all

    Maybe it’s time to make the man with three H in his name the boss
     
    #36
  12. XXJJ

    XXJJ Championship Contender

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    Yes, it's a dull period, hopefully it picks up going into Summerslam.

    It will never happen, but WWE really needs an offseason. They need to take like a month off sometime after Wrestlemania. It would keep things a lot fresher imo.
     
    #37
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  13. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    For the most part, Raw is probably the weakest I've seen in a very long time. In the post WrestleMania season, it seems like the show has regressed to having maybe 2 or 3 segments/matches a week that are worth watching while the rest of it is either sports entertainment filler or stuff that's strictly to entertain Vince. Raw also seems even more formulaic and restrictive than usual and it just makes for something that's difficult to watch and even more difficult to defend. For example, the top storyline for Raw, generally speaking, is between Lashley and Reigns. Okay, so why should I care? When it comes to promos and just generally letting his personality come through, Lashley, right now, is about where Roman Reigns was when his singles career kicked off several years back. I don't know if the guy just has no real personality to speak of, if it's the canned nature of Vince's demand for scripted promos or a combination of both, but Lashley is about as appealing me as the generic, smiling babyface as using my junk for gator bait. I'm not going to care about this because Vince is jerking off to this whole "I'm the alpha male/No, I'm the alpha male" bullshit and nobody else should either.
     
    #38
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  14. Radical

    Radical Championship Contender

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    Well, Monday Night Raw just had an HISTORIC low in ratings.

    Is this yet again more evidence that Monday Night Raw does indeed suck?

    It certainly means that MNR is not very must-see TV.

    Multiple problems facing it:

    - No Universal Champion on the show most weeks
    - 3-Hour Show with tons of commercials, often in the middle of matches
    - Very little OMG, MUST-SEE storyline moments in the show
    - High-Speed Internet Era - Super easy for people to watch the show highlights hours later or a day later at their leisure and in MUCH less time


    I do genuinely feel that even if the Attitude Era was right now, because of the High-Speed Internet Era the ratings would not be hitting 8s and 9s like it used to. That said, I still think it would NOT see historic lows in ratings.


    So there is something WWE can do and they are missing out gaining or retaining fans because their show is not compelling enough to watch live.


    I miss the feeling of watching Raw when any second there could be a big development and the top title in the company always had a big story involved with it. And even in the Attitude Era 3 hours would have been too long. So I'm sorry if the Network that has Raw is making WWE have a 3-hour Raw but it is not helping them in ratings and gaining viewership in the long-run.

    Even if ratings are becoming less important in WWE's revenue streams, it is still important enough that if they keep going down in ratings they will have a harder time getting a good TV deal.


    What could Raw do next week to start making a big difference in the show quality?
     
    #39
  15. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    Officially, I don't really care about the ratings mostly because nobody watch tv anymore so most show have low ratings anyway so it doesn't means anything as far as the quality of the show and WWE really don't care about the ratings anymore for the same reason that I just mention. All they need to do is maintain the ratings nears what they are doing and they will the network and sponsors will be happy with it.

    The fact is, nobody outside the wrestling media and fans that reads them think that ratings are important. WWE could do a five star program every week and the ratings would be the same because they have their fans and that's the most they could do even if the quality of the show gets better.
     
    #40
  16. Radical

    Radical Championship Contender

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    I see what your saying, and I actually know that in today's media landscape ratings is becoming a less and less important measure of a show's success, especially in pro wrestling, but there also has to be a bare minimum of ratings or the show could be in trouble it hasn't faced since it started.

    The reason I pointed out the RECORD low ratings is that it might be of concern if record lows keep happening. I guess if Raw always kept a 2.0 or better rating they would still get a good TV contract ...

    But what if they keep going down? What if next year they are near or below a 1.0 rating? And let's say attendance and Network subscriptions stay relatively similar to where they are now. WWE still needs a TV contract, and a good one, at that. If they had to go to El Ray or Pop Network like Lucha or Impact have to do (starting out) that could not be seen as a positive thing.

    I'm not hoping that Raw ratings keep going down, but what I'm wondering is even if WWE has their fans and their fans will stick around no matter what ... but what if those fans stop watching live TV because the show quality is only so-so and they become more casual fans than hardcore fans? I'm just saying, TV ratings still matter enough that if fans stopped watching then WWE would have serious trouble and they would be FORCED to offer a really intense and compelling TV product to get back live TV watchers.
     
    #41
  17. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    They already sign a multi year contract (i think it's for 4 or 5 years i'm not sure) that pays them a lot more money then they already get so right now USA doesn'T seem to cares about the ratings if they pay them almost double what they we're paying them To keep Raw on their network. Also just look at the deal they got for Smackdown, a show that'S doing even worst ratings then Raw, Fox paid a lot of money to get Smackdown so i don'T think that ratings are that important right now if they are able to get great tv contract for shows that aren't doing well in the ratings.

    I feel that the brand will pretty much carry them to good or great tv contract in the future, All they have to do is keep those ratings between 1.0 and 3.0 and the networks will be happy with them. WWE really can effort to be lazy because they'Re always going to be fans that will tune in the thoses shows. Even if some smart fans stop watching Raw or Smackdown, there will always be a casual fans or a kids that will replace that fan.
     
    #42
  18. HORRORHOLIC

    HORRORHOLIC Pre-Show Stalwart

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    These terrible backstage skits are getting worse and worse. The script and acting are so bad it's not even funny.
     
    #43
  19. Forgetful Vince

    Forgetful Vince New Member

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    I can't stand what has happened to WWE's flagship shows any longer. Something MUST be done. The WWE Universe needs to rise up and let you voice finally be heard. Someone shared with me an internal contact list, so enjoy!

    Call Mr. McMahon's cell phone today or email him directly:

    203-536-2304

    COB@wwecorp.com

    or, Reach out to Michelle Wilson his trusted Co-President by email or cell phone:

    michelle.wilson@wwecorp.com

    203-912-7375

    Or, lash out to HHH directly and be heard:

    603-496-9112

    THL@wwecorp.com

    Without all of us, these corporate fat cats wouldn't be padding their bank accounts with the $$$$millions in WWE stock they have been selling.
     
    #44
  20. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    Love your enthusiasm but that won't change anything, the only way you guys will get what you want is if you're able to convince everybody that hate what's going on with raw to stop supporting the product which will never happen. Last night raw was a really good episode and the fans seem to really enjoy it so I doubt that a small group of die hard fans calling Vince or any of the higher up and complaining will change that because until they are still making money off tickets sales and merchandise with this type of product not even HHH will change a thing about the product because that wouldn't be best for business.
     
    #45

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