Modern Family' casts transgender child actor

Discussion in 'The WrestleZone Symposium' started by Alex, Sep 28, 2016.

  1. Alex

    Alex King Of The Wasteland

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    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/27/entertainment/modern-family-transgender-actor-jackson-millarker/

    Now my question is can a child have the capacity to say they're transgender. Now I'm not knocking anyone from hiring transgender actors. Laverne Cox from Orange Is The New Black is cool and I like what I've heard from Against Me so it's not a big deal if you're transgender.


    I get that some people will feel differently at different ages. I know there have been stories of gay people who knew they were gay at a young age but normally they definitely knew by their teens (which in the grand scheme of things is pretty young) Can a child under ten definitely say they're gay, straight, transgender?

    I mean I used to wear my mum's high heels and occasionally use her lipstick as a kid but I was just a kid doing random stuff and never thought of it besides having fun. I never thought of maybe this is who I am or anything.

    So yeah can a child definitely say they are transgender or would they have to grow up a bit to know for definite
     
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  2. Spidercanrana

    Spidercanrana Should've Reinstated The Fox
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    Who the hell knows, really.

    There are senior citizens just now finding out who they are. Both sides of this argument would probably make a passionate claim on how they're right, but when it's all said and done there is no real way of knowing whether a child can be transgendered. Adults are fucking confused about themselves. So I think if an 8-year old kid says that's what they are, then thumbs up. If it just so happens later on in life they realize they're wrong, then thumbs up again. 5 years ago I had no idea what the hell a demisexual was, but I discovered that if there's a sexual spectrum, then that's probably where I fit.

    We're all figuring ourselves out - that's the human experience. So more power to a kid who believes they're transgendered or gay or is into Dane Cook. The world's hard enough that I don't need to fight them on it.
     
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  3. Kodo Sawaki

    Kodo Sawaki Championship Contender

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    My friends sister knew at young age. Always dressed up manly and played with guns and not dolls. They even get her to the shrink for that but nothing helped, she just fealed differently. And now after sex change operation she really is a man. Think I even saw similar case at TLC channel. So yeah, it is possible to just feal differently in that sense at young age. Later you can probably just confirm why is that.
     
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  4. Mortician

    Mortician New Member

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    I say let kids be kids and at 18 they can legally decide what or who they want to be.
     
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  5. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    It's not an easy transition for my generation to get accustomed to the idea of someone deciding their own gender identity at any age, but we're getting there.

    Kids can be very aloof. Boys like trucks and toy soldiers and girls like doll houses and ponies, because that's the influence that's pushed onto them. Now the influence seems to be becoming "just be you". I'm sure that commercial ventures will find a way to exploit that paradigm for profit, but it seems like a more sincere method of nurturing.

    The thing that is difficult to wrap my head around is the idea that gender identity is a very flexible concept. Say that a young boy finds himself identifying with girls and he decides that he's much more comfortable in their company, then puberty hits and he's suddenly a gym rat who can't keep his eyes off anything with breasts. The reality of deciding one's own gender identity at any age is that they could suddenly change their mind, and society would hopefully accept a sudden transition into whatever other gender identity they've grown comfortable with.

    This is one of those things that I support, but I won't deny that it makes me uncomfortable. I can't empathize in that I feel pretty damn set in the norms of being a decent law abiding American dude (decent and law abiding emphasized because of how our reputations have kind of tanked lately).

    I applaud Jackson Millarker for having the courage to let the world know how he perceives himself and I applaud Modern Family for once again aiding progress in our society.
     
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  6. SSJPhenom

    SSJPhenom The Phenom of WZ

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    While I don't really have a problem with a child deciding what their gender identity is; at the same time, I don't know how a child could know.

    There is a story up above about the guy putting on his mom's high heels and lipstick as a kid. I have a similar story. My cousin, who's the same age as me, used to be the biggest girl when we were kids. Used to play with dolls, loved Barbie and Ken, wore make up, lipstick, and even wanted to be a princess one year for Halloween. That was all well and good, but my cousin was a boy. Everyone in the family thought he was gay or that something was wrong with him and they used to make fun of him. (This was in the hills of KY in the 90's so don't judge my family) When he was 13, though, and went through puberty; he became a completely different person. He became interested in sports, joined the football team, started wanting to hunt, fish, etc. Most of all, though, he discovered girls and had one pregnant by his senior year of high school. Now he's married, has 3 kids, and coaches little league football for our hometown elementary school.

    I told that story because kids will be kids and while I'm not saying that some could very well be astute enough to know exactly who they are and what they want before puberty, most aren't. So I think having an 8 year old saying that they're supposed to be a different gender is dangerous. It could be that they seen something like that on TV and decided that they wanted to do it. It could be that right now they feel more comfortable with the opposite gender, but may not in the future. Again, they could also very well know who they are at 8, but idk.

    I think we should let kids go through puberty first and if they still claim to be different, then we should start taking them at their word.
     
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  7. HBK-aholic

    HBK-aholic Shawn Michaels ❤

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    I really hate this fad of labeling children, especially with something as currently controversial as 'transgender'. An 8 year old, I don't care how intelligent, does not understand the complexities of having that diagnosis or label - I sincerely doubt they even understand what transgender means.

    Describe to me - what does it mean to feel like a man? What does it mean to feel like a woman? We may, as mature adults, be able to accurately explain that feeling - though we also may not - it's complex. I don't believe an 8 year old is emotionally mature enough to separate a legitimate condition from not following what adults perceive to be 'normal' behavior for a boy or girl.

    When this specific child is older, he may decide he is transgender - that's fine. He may also realise he is a man, who happened to enjoy traditionally feminine activities when he was a child - also fine. But I 100% disagree with the pressure this label is putting on a child, especially when that child is also now in such a prominent position in the media.
     
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  8. OYDK

    OYDK King Of The Ring

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    Honestly, if an 8 year old child decides to label themselves as transgender, I don't see a huge problem with it. Some people just know, even from a young age, what their sexuality is. Take Shiloh Jolie-Pitt for instance (yes I know who Shiloh Jolie Pitt is, don't you mock me). From the time she was a toddler, she seemed to know that she felt more comfortable in a man's body than she did in a woman's. She's now 10 years old and is clearly already in the process of transitioning. Apparently she wants to be called "John" instead of Shiloh.

    Everybody is different. When I was 8 years old, I knew I found women attractive, even if I didn't understand why (don't ask me how...). I knew I was straight even if I didn't understand what straight meant. It is possible, even at 8 years old, to know if you're comfortable in your own skin or not. One thing I'm a bit hesitant about is performing the surgeries on somebody under 18 years old. I'm not sure what the legal age is in America to have this surgery or if there even is a legal age, but it should definitely not be performed on children. It doesn't hurt to wait.

    If as a child you think you're transgender, great. But I think one should definitely be an "adult" in order to have the option to make it permanent.
     
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  9. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    This is a challenging question and I'm not really sure that anyone can provide a definitive answer. Ideas regarding gender identity run the spectrum of people being labeled as confused to altered brain chemistry to molestation to everything else in between.

    The way that I look at it is that it's probably along the same lines of sexual orientation. For instance, I'm sure that there are some people who might think they're gay or who tell people that they're gay when they really aren't as they're going through an experimental time in their lives; they later realize, through whatever circumstances, that they're not gay but bisexual, or maybe even flat out straight. I'd say it's entirely possible for something similar to happen in terms of gender identity. However, the reverse, I think, is probably also true in that there are some people who genuinely just know, truly, 100% know that they're gay or that they're male or female inside the body of the wrong gender. I mean, who am I to tell someone that they really don't know who they are when I'm not that person or lived that person's life? That'd be like me trying to lecture a life long devotee of the Islamic faith on the tenants of Islam. I always knew I "liked" girls when I was a boy and that I WAS a boy, so I don't see why the opposite can't be true.
     
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  10. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

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    The same way you knew you were a boy.

    That doesn't mean the guy thought he was a girl. He just wanted to do something and did it.

    Having girl interests doesn't mean you think you are or feel like a girl.

    So is stiffling a child's wishes about things like sexuality and gender. So dangerous that it leads to many suicides.

    You don't know but you seem to be very free with your opinions.

    No one is getting implants or having dicks sewn on to their crotches at eight. They're just asking to treated like half of the human population.



    Doctors need names for things, go figure.

    Huh? Why do you care about complexities all of the sudden? Grown women don't understand all the complexities of pregnancy. Should we stop that?

    You're logic here sounds reasonable on th surface but it is just a case of you having no expertise on the topic and you just trying to sound thoughtful.


    Well, if you do not then by your logic you should not label yourself a man or woman.

    But a professional may be able to study the situation and create a medical diagnosis that is in the best interest of the child.

    Keep in mind the child has an increased likelihood of killing themselves so they may not get that chance.

    Enjoying activities that are stereotypical of children who have different parts than you is not the same as feeling like you are a different gender.

    Poor kid. Getting to live life the way he wants and not feeling bad about himself.
     
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  11. HBK-aholic

    HBK-aholic Shawn Michaels ❤

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    I genuinely don't even know where to start with that nonsense. Since when have I only 'all of a sudden' cared about complexities? Since when did I say uninformed women should get pregnant? For the record, I don't think an 8 year old should get pregnant, either.

    Actually, I do have 'expertise' on the subject, as a nurse who has a) studied the condition, b) gained a degree and c) cared for people both physically and emotionally pre and post operatively, but please, continue to explain how I'm 'trying to sound thoughtful' with 'no expertise' :rolleyes:

    Except that only a few doctors will even diagnose a young child with this 'condition' because of everything I posted originally. And there is always controversy around those that do - for the reasons I posted originally.

    I agree completely. I disagree that at 8 years old, you can grasp what it MEANS to feel like you are a different gender - and then be able to adequately explain those feelings in a way that would mean a solid diagnosis can be made.

    Please stop assuming that my (not even negative) post is in some way discriminating against this child and stating he should feel bad about himself - your entire argument is based on nonsense you've assumed I think, know or feel. Let the child do what he wants to do. Don't put pressure on him.
     
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  12. therockiswwf

    therockiswwf The voice of Michael Cole's headset

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    I think a lot of people assume since they cannot understand why people want to be transgender then there must be something wrong with the person. I compare this to my ADD. Without my pill, I cannot pay attention no matter how much I want to. ADD isn't fun. I don't want to have it. I want to pay attention. I just can't. If you do not have ADD, I would not expect you to completely understand why I can't pay attention. My pill fixes my ADD and I feel normal.

    That is how I feel about transgender people. I don't understand it but that does not mean what they feel is not real. I am not qualified to say when a child can completely grasp their gender identity. None of us are. We are not that person and (I assume) we are not qualified psychologists. Nurses and doctors are not qualified on this subject. Psychology takes years of focused learning and training. It would be like a nurse claiming they can be a doctor. Some stuff overlaps but not even close to making one qualified. Everything should be left up to the person and their psychologist. They should be allowed to make whatever decision they want. It should not be anything we concern ourself with.
     
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  13. HBsam31

    HBsam31 Totally Reeking of Awesomeness

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    God i used to post religiously 8n the forums and they sure have gone to hell. Someone early post people in their 80s are just finding out who they are. whine whine whine. What were they doing their who lives and why is it so important we find out who we are whine whine whine. I am a man and i provide for my wife and kid. Thats all anyone needs to know. Certainly a child doesnt k ow and anyone who says differently ate scumbags. We have taken PC Waaaaaaaaay to far. Let a kid go through puberty before they decided who they are. Whine whine whine.
     
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  14. .

    . We shy worth hair

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    I'm not someone who is entirely in the know about what a transgender person may think or what their emotional state is like however it is something that ties very closely to identity and I just don't believe that anyone has a full idea of their own identity and what they stand for until after they go through puberty. Only after then is a person far more aware of both them self and their body and capable of engaging such an idea. i hate to sound like I'm preaching or telling others how to live their lives (Because its not my intent).

    It seems both disingenuous and cruel to assume that a child of 8 could adequately evaluate the ideas that would have to be evaluated fully before realistically coming to terms with your gender and if you wanna change it. Again, the idea of gender isn't something that I think is fully realised until long into puberty.

    I'm not a nurse or a doctor like Becca but I have studied psychology and law and I've never come across an expert in the field who considers that children are fully equipped to make such a decision.

    For the show? It seems like its heart is in the right place but honestly comes off as downright exploitation.
     
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  15. therockiswwf

    therockiswwf The voice of Michael Cole's headset

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    I assume Becca is that HBK-aholic person. She isn't a psychologist so she really doesn't have any actual insight into this. Not a criticism of her. None of us really do. Professional psychologists who are trained have insight and they will understand it way better than any of us.

    I assume children aren't actually put through the surgery or anything like and do wait until they are an adult. Brains finish maturing around age 26 so it would be logical to assume young children cannot quite grasp gender identity yet. I don't see any harm if a child associates with one gender and supporting them. Nothing has been done yet and they might find out they identify with their own gender. I'm pretty sure no one just goes well I feel like a woman today, time to choppy choppy my pee pee.

    I don't think kids will get confused if they see this. Like kids don't become gay because they see someone being gay. They are gay because they are gay.

    I feel like a lot of people assume anytime there is a LGBT couple or character on TV, that they are exploiting LGBT people. I think it is more people aren't used to them as characters because there aren't a lot of shows with those types of characters on it.
     
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  16. .

    . We shy worth hair

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    Don't take this as a personal attack but are you a psychologist? Becca does seem to have a strong amount of experience in the area. I feel that she may be a lot more qualified than me or yourself to be honest.

    Yes but a child can arbitrarily decide something about themselves after reading about it or learning about it. This kid has incredibly liberal parents too so it may be taking an inch and assuming a mile in this situation? I'm being far to assumptive here. All I can say is that there are a lot of things about a child's autonomy that the child them-self aren't expected to legally decide or medically consent to.

    Yes but i don't think children give it as much thought as they should before deciding that they identify as trans. Again, the concept of gender is something tied incredibly close to development of a person and to decide your gender before puberty, to me, seems impetuous and ill considered.

    There's nothing wrong with a trans person on a show. Like yourself, I'd like to see a lot more of it. However to attach it to a show like modern family seems to me like a very special episode as opposed to anything else. Again, I'm sure there were good intentions but the road to hell is paved with those.
     
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  17. therockiswwf

    therockiswwf The voice of Michael Cole's headset

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    A person in my family is going through the process to become one and it takes forever. A nurse is not a psychologist. Sure some stuff may overlap but that doesn't mean a nurse is a psychologist. A doctor and nurse have some overlap but a nurse is not a doctor. Becoming a professional psychologist takes years of extra, specialized school. You don't just get a bachelors degree and become one.

    None of us are qualified. Psychologist are. My view is if a kid decides he/she wants to be a different gender then talk with them, get them a psychologist. If everything points towards the kid wanting to be transgender after a thorough evaluation, then start supporting them. I agree that nothing medical should be done until after they are at least 18. Have the psychologist help in the decision. Not a nurse. Not a doctor. Not me. A psychologist.

    I'm fairly certain no kid just decides they want to switch genders overnight. It's a long process. One that should not be taken lightly.

    I do not think a kid sees a transgender person and goes well I'm confused, I wanna be the opposite gender now. I'm not advocating that if a boy goes I want to be a girl that we immediately start dressing them up like one. Again, talk with them. Get them a psychologist. Let them talk it out. Support whatever the outcome is.

    I think the process is a lot longer than what you are thinking. I'm pretty sure that a psychological evaluation is part of the medical process anyways.

    I think it works with Modern Family because they are a progressive show.
     
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  18. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

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    Whoa, I really dropped the ball on this discussion.


    Clearly my analogy went over your head. I digress, what does a child or anyone have to understand about wanting to live as another gender to start living as another gender?

    So then what have you learned that makes you think kids should wait to start living life in the gender that feels right to them mentally.

    Um, source?

    Well, neither of us are psychologists.

    Fair enough, just keep in mind that your language is the kind of language people use that makes kids feel bad about the way they feel about who they think they are. As a parent of a kid who is a little different then the rest of the herd I am probably overly sensitive to the topic. It may seem harmless in a forum like this but I can see very easily how our collection of forum mouth breathers would take such language and turn it in to suppressing and damaging a kid.
     
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