Fire Marshall Bill
Let me show ya somethin!!!
I believe his "19 times" was completely arbitrary. And has been pointed out before, losing doesn't necessarily mean putting over.
John Cena is the best wrestler ever.
- Thread starter Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.
- Start date
I believe his "19 times" was completely arbitrary. And has been pointed out before, losing doesn't necessarily mean putting over.
Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.
Kamehamehaaaaa!!
I know it was arbitary lol.
Sure it doesn't. But it HELPS.
For example, Nakamura had everybody's attention when he defeated Cena.
George Steele's Barber
Advertise Here $9.95/month
No he didn't.
That being said. Cena is not the best. He has some good and great matches but he also has a pretty long stretch of duds. Not that it matters. Wrestling is about more than that. Hogan, Austin, Rock, Flair and others entertained me more and kept me interested.
Only clean losses Steve Austin had as a babyface, is vs Triple H at NWO 01, and Rock WM19(Which was his last match)
Undertaker ( I know he never were the face but still a huge star)
1. Roman Reigns WrestleMania 33
2. Lesnar - Hell in a Cell 2015
3. Lesnar - Wrestlemania 30
4. Kane - Night of Champions 2010
5. Big Show - Smackdown 2009
6. Kozlov - Smackdown 2009
7. Batista - Cyber Sunday 2007
8. Great Khali - Jugment Day 2006
9. Kurt Angle - No way out 2006
10. Triple H - Insurrextion 2002
11. Brock Lesnar - No Mercy 2002
12. Stone Cold RAW 1999
13. Stone Cold Summerslam 1998
Can anyone give lists of Hogan and Rock when they were babyfaces? I know Rock lost a lot as a heel.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
Which is why I never made that case in the first place. It was an ongoing debated point between others, which I simply gave some overview on.
The reasoning I gave for wether he is or isn't the greatest has nothing to do with wins and losses.
Austin - Triple H, Kurt Angle, The Rock, Chris Jericho
Hogan - The Ultimate Warrior, Goldberg, Brock Lesnar
You're so obsessed with Cena taking so many clean losses, you're missing the point. Austin and Hogan may not have taken as many losses as Cena but whenever they lost (clean or not), it meant more and elevated their opponents to another level. Cena has put over so many guys it's no longer credible anymore. Cena is now in Jericho's position from a few years back when Jericho constantly kept losing that beating him lost all credibility and any meaning. How many of those victories over Cena are even memorable off the top of someone's head or talked about like a Hogan vs. Warrior, Austin vs. Triple H, Bret vs. Austin etc. None of them. Those guys who beat Cena are all in the same position they were in before they faced Cena, they haven't rose to another level. Roman vs. Cena should've been a big passing of the torch match but it sucked and most people have already forgotten about the match.
You don't even need to lose to somebody to get put over. Just working with someone and losing to them can still get someone over. Just look at Austin with Bret. Just look at Angle with Austin. Angle has said that he learned a lot from working with Austin as he didn't know what he was doing in the ring and how to carry a match in the ring until he worked with Austin. Angle came out a better wrestler from his programme with Austin because of what he learned from Austin. Austin and Angle's Summerslam match elevated Angle into a more serious credible legit star. The Rock, everybody was lobbying to get him out of the WM 15 main event and Austin could've easily gone along and vetoed Rock out of the match but he had his back and they went on to have the biggest WM main event at that time. Triple H looked like Austin's equal after beating him twice and Jericho going over Austin and Rock still gets bragged about to this day whereas there is no mention of Ambrose, Nakamura, Roman, whoever going over Cena because no one even cares and hardly remembers them.
As for the rest of your OP, you overrate Cena like hell and make some delusional claims.
As already mentioned, there were other guys who were more popular. Cena's never been popular except for 2004-mid 2005 (the only guy more popular and who the fans wanted more was Batista)
Better performers with longer catalogues of great matches. Most of Cena's matches are the same as each other, spam kickout, there's no difference between Cena's series of matches with Owens and Cena's series with AJ except the MITB match with AJ, which was the only different match as they told a story there with AJ being too quick for Cena and having quick answers to his stuff. Cena calls spots out loudly, which take you out of the match and makes you remember you're watching a fake fight. And half the things he does in the ring look cringeworthy.
Better mic workers. Cena's terrible when he's not serious, a poor imitation of The Rock, and when he is serious, he just says the same thing over and over again to his future opponents. He always has to get in the last word to make him look like the better promo cutter when up against someone just as good as him on the mic like The Miz.
And better complete packages than John Cena.
Cena isn't the best anything, top 5, wouldn't even put him in a top 50. He doesn't belong in the same sentence as Austin, Hogan, Rock, Bret, Shawn, Andre etc. as he doesn't come anywhere close to their level. Cena's the worst top guy ever, the guy who made wrestling uncool and drove plenty of fans away from the product. Wrestling is at its lowest currently because we've had to go through 13 long boring years of his crap and Roman Reigns is going to drive it even further into the ground with them pushing Roman the exact same way they did Cena. That's Cena legacy and what he will be always remembered for.
HeenanGorilla
Championship Contender
Vince has been looking for the next Hulk Hogan forever. He first tried Luger and that failed and he never had another one until John Cena. What I mean by "next Hulk Hogan" is a guy who was able to be an absolute star within WWE but also be a legit star outside of WWE, while still in WWE. Someone who breaks Make-a-Wish records, someone who wins Kids Choice Awards, someone who was able to crossover into mainstream while still a "wrestler". Rock has obviously become a huge mainstream star, but that is his career after WWE, with some WWE appearances sprinkled in. Hulkamania-Era Hogan and Cena were able to do all of this at the same time. Yes, they took breaks to film movies, etc. but they were never gone for long.
Austin has an argument for most popular, but can't touch these guys on this overall level due to his character not lending itself to charities. Rock, again, may be the biggest crossover star, but didn't reach those levels while still fully active in WWE.
"Best ever" is purely subjective. But, for the overall face of WWE, simultaneously within the company and outside of it, I think there was Hogan and there was Cena...and Cena should be applauded for that as it is very hard to pull off, especially nowadays.
Austin has an argument for most popular, but can't touch these guys on this overall level due to his character not lending itself to charities. Rock, again, may be the biggest crossover star, but didn't reach those levels while still fully active in WWE.
"Best ever" is purely subjective. But, for the overall face of WWE, simultaneously within the company and outside of it, I think there was Hogan and there was Cena...and Cena should be applauded for that as it is very hard to pull off, especially nowadays.
Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
What a load of complete garbage. You don't think Cena is on the level of Austin, Hogan, Rock, Bret, Shawn, or Andre? Really. Clearly you don't understand pro wrestling. Cena drove fans away from the product? Cena is the worst top guy ever? Then explain why he's been WWE's biggest merch mover since 2008. Explain why he's been their biggest ticket seller for house shows. Explain why he's headlined 5 Wrestlemania's. Explain why Wrestlemania 29 drew the largest gate in WWE history. Explain the increase in TV ratings from 2005-2007, while Cena was champion for over a year, and then the sharp decrease afterwards when he got injured.
If you understood business, even just a little bit, you'd realize that Cena has been one of the best top guys in wrestling there has ever been. Much better than Bret or Shawn ever were. And really the Rock too. Dwayne can't touch Cena's longevity.
No, it's really fucking not. In 2016, WWE made more money than they ever have in their entire history. They've grown from a nationally recognized promotion to a globally recognized juggernaut. RAW is broadcasted in over 120 countries every week. WWE programming reaches some 850 million households a year. WWE videos on YT net tens of millions of views.
And through that expansion, who has been the WWE's top star? Who has headlined more PPV's than anyone else? Who has worked the most grueling of travel schedules, carried the world championship strap 16 different times, all while being an ambassador not just for the WWE, but pro wrestling in general? It sure as shit wasn't CM Punk, or Daniel Bryan, or Triple H, or Batista, or Randy Orton, or Edge, or Chris Jericho, or Jeff Hardy.
Cena doesn't make your top 50? What a joke.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
Don't forget headlining the most successful PPV of all time with a guy who didn't draw diddily-shit before that night.
Also take into account they launched the network during the Cena-era, something which had been discussed as far back as the late 90s. Sure, the climate of technology helped it become a reality, but it happened during the era of Cena, full stop.
Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.
Kamehamehaaaaa!!
Triple H? The guy that Austin didn't want to drop the title to at Summerslam 1999? And they added Foley on the match, so that Foley could win the title at Summerslam and lose it the next night to HHH? It wasn't Austin who made HHH look better, it was HHH's booking.
Chris Jericho? How?
Only Angle, who Austin was just very fond of.
Oh and The Rock was made by Makind. Then The Rock made himself look better.
Warrior left the company and guess what, he got made because he defeated Hogan clean! Goldberg? Well, Hogan was a heel at that time. But no talk about how Hogan and his pals screwed Goldberg in the proccess? And Brock Lesnar? C'mon dude. Hogan was in his 50s at that time.
Let's talk about how Hogan refused to face Bret Hart or Mr. Perfect, because he was afraid of his image.
Then you talk about how it doesn't mean a lot to beat Cena? Uhmm. AJ Styles and Kevin Owens say hello. I agree, losing to Nakamura on SD was far-fetched. But Cena vs Reigns was a big passing of the torch moment. The crowd went bazingas for the match. They were so burnt out that they slept through the main event that was Braun vs Brock.
You say that Jericho beating Austin and The Rock still gets talked about today. Well, isn't Punk vs Cena talked about today? Isn't Bryan vs Cena? Isn't Lesnar vs Cena? Owens vs Cena? Styles vs Cena? RVD vs Cena? I don't overrate him, you devalue him.
Hahahaha. Cena made wrestling uncool? Lol OK. I guess it wasn' Chris Benoit fault that WWE went PG..
WWE became uncool the moment the Monday Night Wars and the AE ended.
They already had a 50% drop by 2003. WM 19, the so-cool WM 19, which had the final Austin vs Rock, Lesnar vs Angle, Hogan vs McMahon, Y2J vs HBK, 3 dream matches plus one big final goodbye to Austin and Rock, is the least bought Wrestlemania of ALL TIME.
RAW became uncool when HHH decided to have his power run and SD became uncool when they made JBL the champion.
IN FACT, John Cena was one of the COOL THINGS, WWE had back then.
Vince McMahon made wrestling uncool, not Cena.
And I just laugh at you for thinking that Cena isn't in the top 50.
It's funny how you list Shawn higher than Cena. Wasn't he the face of a dead company at one point? Nobody talks about that, though.
WWE right now is an empire and Cena is at the throne.
Watching wrestling was never cool. Was is cool, is attending wrestling. The only reason RAW was watched was because it was hot trash controversial television. Nobody watched RAW during the AE to see wrestling. Nobody.
And if we're going to talk attedance numbers, the era that you smack, also happens to have the best drawing Wrestlemanias of all time. And from WM21 till WM33, Cena was in a major match in 9 of them.
And if we're talking impact, let's talk about which wrestler would have a bigger impact in a match with The Rock, than John Cena.
The answer is: Nobody.
No other would have a bigger mainstream appeal. Nobody would generate the same buzz WM 27, 28 generated. Only a returning program for The Rock against John Cena.
Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.
Kamehamehaaaaa!!
Cena beats Bray at WM, everybody loses their mind. Cena doesn't lose, people still lose their mind.
Although I agree, Cena should lose only when it matters.
He shouldn't have lost to Nakamura, Sheamus or Ambrose clean. Heck I even think that he shouldn't have lost to Reigns either, but what was needed was a long term programm with Reigns finally overcoming Cena.
But yeah, I think he's a little bit "damaged" right now. That Nakamura loss is what wrecked his image actually. It was too much. But he'll come back, he'll become a 17-time world champion, he'll probably face Undertaker, maybe both of those things, maybe one of those things and his image will be where it was before losing to Reigns and Nakamura.
Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.
Kamehamehaaaaa!!
Rock had many losses as a face, too. They weren't clean, but the guy would lose A LOT. Him not getting any WM victories until his one with Hogan and still becoming so damn popular is a huge accolade.
Austin was heavily protected even in dirty losses.
And Hogan? Best he could do was count-out or DQ losses.
The times I recall Hogan losing clean were against Warrior, Goldberg, Rock, Angle, Undertaker and Lesnar. Oh and the final 4 came after his days of glory.
So the clean losses that really count were those against Warrior and Goldberg. I can't think of any other clean loss and if there was any, it probably would have been a big moment, so if I can't recall it, maybe it doesn't exist.
Similar threads
