Jake Roberts In The New Generation

[The Brain]

Even though I think he could have had an excellent feud with Bret Hart in 1993 I’m not asking how Jake Roberts would have done as an active wrestler in the WWF in the mid 90s. This may be common knowledge among the IWC but for those who don’t know I’ll tell the brief story. In 1992 Pat Patterson stepped down from the WWF writing team. Jake Roberts wanted to take his spot and Vince McMahon agreed to let him have it. For whatever reason Vince changed his mind and told Roberts he would not be joining the writing team. Roberts was upset and demanded to be released from his contract or he would no show WrestleMania VIII. Roberts was granted his release and he disappeared from the WWF immediately after WM8.

What if Roberts got the job on the writing team? How different would the WWF have been in the mid 90s? Realistically it probably wouldn’t have been much different at all. Just like now, Vince was still the main man in charge. Ultimately he was going to get what he wanted. Even still, Roberts would have likely brought some interesting ideas to the table. He has always had the reputation of having a great mind for the business. Whether main event storylines or minor mid card feuds do you see anyone in particular benefiting from having Roberts on the writing team?

One guy I think that would have benefited from Roberts on the creative team is Doink. I think most people agree the evil Doink was awesome while nobody cared for the good Doink. Doink’s time as a heel ended too soon and even his last couple months as a heel weren’t that great. The surface was barely scratched with what that character could have done. Jake was always known for his dark personality and I believe if he was in a position of influence we could have seen much better things from the evil clown.

So what do you think? How would Roberts have done as a member of the creative team in general and who specifically do you think would have benefited from having him there? For this thread let's assume Roberts would have returned to the ring in 1996 as he did. The years on creative would have been 1992-1995.

 

[Somewhat Large Gonzalez]

Interesting topic. In general, I think heels would have been written with a more concentrated intensity. Jake could have done wonders with a character like Waylon Mercy (to be fair, I think that Waylon was handled relatively well before the injury). I think he would have helped Bret and Shawn with their promo skills (especially Bret, an adequate talker at best). But you're right. In the end, the differences would have been sparse. Everything is filtered through VKM.

 

[GrandSword]

JR has gone on record several times talking about Jake Roberts having one of the greatest pro wrestling minds of all time. I think we may have seen something close to what Paul Heyman did with the Smackdown 6 and just have some really great matches with very strong yet simple intertwining storylines which would have benefitted alot more performers. He would have been able to push many different guys perhaps.

I think the end result though would have still seen Hart, Taker and Michaels being the ones to benefit. Maybe things like Diesel's title reign wouldn't have been so long, soemone other than Mabel would have been KotR and Jenetty could have been a main event player.

Also on a personal level, being in a creative position it might have spared Jake from the drug abuse... but maybe this was the reason all along that Vince turned him down?

 

[Wolf Pac]

I think Scott Levy would've benefited from Jake being on the team since he was his student. The Johnny Polo gig just wasn't for him, Jake would've broken him away from The Quebecers, and pushed him as a singles wrestler. Maybe we could've seen the Raven gimmick debut in the WWF instead of in ECW cause I doubt he would've left if Jake was on the team & he was getting pushed. Then as the years go on and the WWF goes into the Attitude Era, maybe Raven would've went onto become a main eventer. I dunno, I think I'm just dreaming. But I definitely feel Levy would've benefited from it somehow.

 

[HBKperfect23]

I think some of his ideas would have been pretty innovative. But like you said, Vince always has final say so I think we would have only seen some "safe bet" stuff.

Maybe the Raven character would have started in the WWF in 93/94 instead of Johnny Polo? I always found his character to be very simular to Jakes.

Maybe Jake would have Ric Flair in a compelling storyline after the blow off with Perfect, and he would have stuck around to let it play out.

I think we would see a lot better heels. McMahon was always great at making the babyface. I think Jake would have played a crucial role in the development of the heels.

 

[daddyJ_t]

papa shango for sure. his gimmick was a little hokey, but jake couldve brought it to a more believeable level. but that couldve back fired cause we may have never gotton the godfather. but as for now. if jake cleaned up and came back. heels could be more relevant then this twitter shit all over peoples tights. and perhaps helping the second and third gen guys develp better since he did battle probaly all of thier fathers

 

[GameOver]

Didn't even think of him not being around afte WrestleMania 8, other then he went to WCW for a short spell b4 returning at the 96 KOR to job to Austin and the catchphrase Austin 316 was born and then fueded with stars of the future, including Austin and Triple H, ya can see where Triple H got his Cerebral Assassin gimmick/promo's from, they were pure Jake Roberts in another form and Hunter has given credit to Jake for influencing his promo's and ring psychology.

Now that withstanding i agree he would've been a great addition if he wasn't drunk or stoned, he was one of the best pyschological wrestlers in the game and a master of the promo's so he certainly coulda trained alot of people in that area and led some great fued ideas. The only issue as i see it is Jake was a professed scytzo, i met him when he did a Wrestling All Stars tour of Australia and he either never broke character as a frightening asshole or that was how he really was and i have no doubt he really was someone you didn't want to cross maybe Vince saw that and didn't want to risk dealing with it.

I think some of his ideas would have been pretty innovative. But like you said, Vince always has final say so I think we would have only seen some "safe bet" stuff.

Maybe the Raven character would have started in the WWF in 93/94 instead of Johnny Polo? I always found his character to be very simular to Jakes.

Maybe Jake would have Ric Flair in a compelling storyline after the blow off with Perfect, and he would have stuck around to let it play out.

I think we would see a lot better heels. McMahon was always great at making the babyface. I think Jake would have played a crucial role in the development of the heels.

i don't think it woulda made a difference, Ric was offered a shit load more money to return to WCW and a main event spot while in WWF he apparently wasn't going to remain champion and a main eventer and ofcourse Hogan went on haitus so they couldn't fued, then he went back to WCW and Hogan followed.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I too heard the booking team story for Jake, and it kinda rang true for the guy. Let's face it, he would have been pretty much within his right to say "You're not gonna give me the title...so give me the book" as he had done a lot for the company.

The problem is that by then his "issues" were out there, people not only knew but Jake had lost a lot of his charisma, he was becoming paunchy and the heel turn just didn't work for him. You can see him phoning it in against Undertaker.

As to who would have benefitted, it's difficult... Matt Borne (the original Doink) was canned for drugs test failiure so that would probably still have happened (and to Jake most likely) so while I think Jake would handle the character well I don't see it differing anything.

I am not certain that Jake would have been a "dark character" writer either. Jake thrived as a face on cartoony villains like Honky Tonk Man and The Model, it was only near the end that he went for Warrior, Savage and Taker. I think the main area he'd have worked on was promos and a few guys who had average promo skills like Bret, Owen, Davey, Luger would have benefitted from his tutelage. Flair was gone from the moment he wasn't booked at Summerslam 92 to wrestle. He had a verbal agreement where he could walk if he wasn't a top guy and Vince honored it, probably why Flair was treated so well later on was that the whole thing was done professionally, where as Jake, if the story is true, didn't!

I still think Jake would have walked, when Vince benched him the way he benched Savage. I could see him saying "OK, Jake, you got it, but you're out the ring...or you're a manager..." and Jake balking. But you also have to remember that Vince had only 6 months prior had the Warrior threaten him with no showing a PPV, so I am amazed he let it go and then let him back.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

Another thing to keep in mind is if Jake had been given the job on the creative team he may have had more input because this was during Vince's steroid scandel and most believe (me included) that Vince didn't have as much input and final say like he always had. Maybe Jake could have saved some of the bad storylines in the mid 90's and had given Bret better more consistent storylines instead of the hit and miss stuff he had during his runs.

 

[HBsam31]

I think Scott Levy would've benefited from Jake being on the team since he was his student. The Johnny Polo gig just wasn't for him, Jake would've broken him away from The Quebecers, and pushed him as a singles wrestler. Maybe we could've seen the Raven gimmick debut in the WWF instead of in ECW cause I doubt he would've left if Jake was on the team & he was getting pushed. Then as the years go on and the WWF goes into the Attitude Era, maybe Raven would've went onto become a main eventer. I dunno, I think I'm just dreaming. But I definitely feel Levy would've benefited from it somehow.

This is a really good one hear. The Raven character seems something that Jake could have made really good. I agree with The Brain as far as what Jake might have done for Evil Doink the Clown. I think we would have had much better heels, and like another poster said we may have gotten a better KOTR than Mabel that year. Something to think of is could we have seen an even darker side to the Undertaker. Jake worked with him, and I could see Jake taking the Undertaker's character to even darker depths if he was a writer.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I think Scott Levy would've benefited from Jake being on the team since he was his student. The Johnny Polo gig just wasn't for him, Jake would've broken him away from The Quebecers, and pushed him as a singles wrestler. Maybe we could've seen the Raven gimmick debut in the WWF instead of in ECW cause I doubt he would've left if Jake was on the team & he was getting pushed. Then as the years go on and the WWF goes into the Attitude Era, maybe Raven would've went onto become a main eventer. I dunno, I think I'm just dreaming. But I definitely feel Levy would've benefited from it somehow.

YES YES YES YES YES

Raven and Roberts working together, just imagine the promos that those two could have created. It would have been phenomenal.

If Scott Levy had been given the opportunity to put ideas forward to Jake while he was on the writing team, I think we could have seen something very special. I have always thought of Raven and Roberts as very similar in that sense, the way they get into your mind with their words. Plus, the DDT is another similarity between the two.

I would have loved to have seen something like the Raven character debut in WWE at that point. There was nothing else like it at the time in the Federation, and I think Levy could have been Jake's Golden Boy or pet project, and working together I think Levy could have done extremely well in the WWE.

Whether he could have made it to the main event, with the likes of The Kliq and Bret Hart above him is another matter, but I definitely think Scott Levy's WWE career would have been alot longer had Jake Roberts been on the writing team and he had the chance to work on his character with The Snake. Raven as WWE Intercontinental Champion, I like the ring of that!

 

[THTRobtaylor]

It doesn't change that Jake was in reality a stale act by the time he had his bust up with Vince.

As a heel he wasn't offering the size or intimidation factor that others had, now that's not 100% his fault. Had Warrior not been a prick and held Vince up then the win for Jake would have made him a legit main eventer... but they turned Taker instead.

As a face, the Snake gimmick had run it's course as well, animal controls were tighter, he had played the "King Cobra" and "Damien dead" cards so there wasn't much left for Jake in that respect and if the term 5 moves of doom applies to Cena and Bret then they REALLY did with Jake.

I have heard a lot of people say "Jake has the best mind of anyone" but I can't see it in much of his work, he had the psychology down and the promo style. But on the whole his ring work and gimmick did not back up the praise he gets for his "brilliant mind", if anything from WM4 onwards Jake often looked bored, it was only the Savage feud that really showed him having any "fun". Again, booking played a part... the Blindfold match is one step below Kennel From Hell and a total waste of two great talents.

Had Johnny Polo had Jake around to work with, Raven would not have happened. Had Jake not blown his top he wouldn't have lost so heavily to Taker, in fact he might even have skanked a win with help...so the streak would be non existant or different.

You got a good idea of what Jake would have been like when he came back in 96... Paunchy, slow in the ring and not half as charismatic as he once was... all it meant was we didn't get to see the slow decline.

 

[HBKperfect23]

It doesn't change that Jake was in reality a stale act by the time he had his bust up with Vince.

As a heel he wasn't offering the size or intimidation factor that others had, now that's not 100% his fault. Had Warrior not been a prick and held Vince up then the win for Jake would have made him a legit main eventer... but they turned Taker instead.

As a face, the Snake gimmick had run it's course as well, animal controls were tighter, he had played the "King Cobra" and "Damien dead" cards so there wasn't much left for Jake in that respect and if the term 5 moves of doom applies to Cena and Bret then they REALLY did with Jake.

I have heard a lot of people say "Jake has the best mind of anyone" but I can't see it in much of his work, he had the psychology down and the promo style. But on the whole his ring work and gimmick did not back up the praise he gets for his "brilliant mind", if anything from WM4 onwards Jake often looked bored, it was only the Savage feud that really showed him having any "fun". Again, booking played a part... the Blindfold match is one step below Kennel From Hell and a total waste of two great talents.

Had Johnny Polo had Jake around to work with, Raven would not have happened. Had Jake not blown his top he wouldn't have lost so heavily to Taker, in fact he might even have skanked a win with help...so the streak would be non existant or different.

You got a good idea of what Jake would have been like when he came back in 96... Paunchy, slow in the ring and not half as charismatic as he once was... all it meant was we didn't get to see the slow decline.

WOW! I dont think I ever heard someone with so much dislike for Jake. He didnt get over as a heel? Rewatch his feud with Savage. Jake never had the in ring work of a Shawn Michaels or a Bret Hart but he didnt have to. Everything he did had meaning behind it, even the way he just sat in the corner. I think Jake had one of the greatest minds ever and this could have been huge if he got that job.

I dont think anything really changed in the WM8 match with Taker. I dont think they really would have had time to rebook it since Jake apparently did this minutes before the match.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

It's not dislike... It's the reality and I have rewatched. The Savage feud was too short for it to get Jake over, the match itself did more to re-establish Savage than it did to get Jake over as a heel. It's not Jake's fault 100%, Warrior being gone and not getting that win hurt the turn badly, Savage was the "plan B".

Jake's best work was against Rude, that much is true and that was, as you say, everything had meaning... afterwards none of his feuds showed the intensity until the Cobra moment with Savage. His run with both Andre and DiBiase were not what they should have been, hence why he was working with Quake and Martel not for the title.

As I said, it's his demons that are likely to blame rather than Jake himself, but he deteriorated physically from when he worked with Rude. Undertaker was not the right opponent for him, the Savage feud should have gone on to WM8... but reading between the lines, Jake's fate was already sealed when they canned him v Randy from the Survivor Series... He did look bored a lot of the time... as you say rewatch...

 

[HBKperfect23]

It's not dislike... It's the reality and I have rewatched. The Savage feud was too short for it to get Jake over, the match itself did more to re-establish Savage than it did to get Jake over as a heel. It's not Jake's fault 100%, Warrior being gone and not getting that win hurt the turn badly, Savage was the "plan B".

Jake's best work was against Rude, that much is true and that was, as you say, everything had meaning... afterwards none of his feuds showed the intensity until the Cobra moment with Savage. His run with both Andre and DiBiase were not what they should have been, hence why he was working with Quake and Martel not for the title.

As I said, it's his demons that are likely to blame rather than Jake himself, but he deteriorated physically from when he worked with Rude. Undertaker was not the right opponent for him, the Savage feud should have gone on to WM8... but reading between the lines, Jake's fate was already sealed when they canned him v Randy from the Survivor Series... He did look bored a lot of the time... as you say rewatch...

No doubt his work with Rude was great. It was a feud that I didnt watch live and had to rewatch. I still really enjoyed it. Probably would have been even more enjoyable if I was watching at the time.

I didnt know Jake/Savage was planned for SS91, I thought they were supposed to be on opposing sides of the elimination match? I think it was saved for Tuesday in TX because they really wanted that ppv to do well. I do agree we should have got the payoff of Savage/Roberts at WM8, maybe in a cage. SNME was to rebook WM, horrible decision to make that the blow off for Savage/Roberts and use it to turn the Undertaker. I did enjoy Jake/Taker but think they could have used some more time to be built. I think that could have been very big.

Ill to rewatch as well. The snake bite on savage had a huge impact on me as a kid. I hated Jake more then anyone at the time. Maybe thats why this feud stands out to me. I consider late 91-late 92 the time Savage was at his best so I am biased in that respect.

 

[theBec2101]

Just because he has one of the best minds in wrestling doesnt mean he can make others produce the same qualities he did. I mean sometimes you have it and sometimes you dont. Could he give great incite and advise, of course. but that is not a guarantee the other person will know how to use it and run with it.