Intl. Region, Leeds Subregion, First Round: (4) Chris Benoit vs. (29) Mark Henry

Who Wins This Matchup?

  • Chris Benoit

  • Mark Henry


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Mark Henry's career stats:
1 vs. 1 Matches:718 Wins:377 Win%:52.5 Losses:320 Loss%:44.6 Draws:21 Draw%:2.9

Chris Benoit's career stats:
1 vs. 1 Matches:1148 Wins:738 Win%:64.3 Losses:350 Loss%:30.5 Draws:60 Draw%:5.2

Even in 2011 - the alleged 'prime' Henry era, his 1 vs. 1 record from his transfer in April 2011 to SmackDown until his injury in April 2012 was W:39 L:46 D:7 (and many of those wins were against 'greats' like Yoshi Tatsu, Zack Ryder, John Morrison, Great Khali, Zeke, Johnny Curtis, Vladimir Kozlov, Bobby Heller and Chavo Jnr).

From January - December 2004 - Benoit had the following 1vs. 1 record: W81 L:15 D:3.

So much for the 'prime' argument!

It's funny that you've taken none of that into context. After his title reign, Benoit was on fucking Heat beating up Rodney Mack and Tomko, and wrestling guys like Rob Conway. He drew against Eugene, a comedy ******. I can go on.

And more often than not, Henry's losses were DQ's because of his savagery and not major matches, like you said. Benoit's losses were nearly all pinfalls. Henry was almost never beaten clean during that period. Also, his prime ended at Royal Rumble 2012 because he left the main event scene after.

If you going to use statistics, at least use some context.

Putting stock into a prime argument that consists of a small time span is one thing if the wrestler has had a short career. When someone has a career of 15 yrs + being mediocre at best, then that small time frame considered 'prime' needs to be pretty epic. People are talking about Henry's prime as if he was Goldberg or something. He was a good monster heel for the 'B' show, but epic it was not.


So I am supposed to put more stock in his little run than an entire consistent career by Benoit? No.


The run that everyone considers Henry at his prime was not really all that impressive. His most credible threat was actually Orton who they used to help legitimize the push by dropping the title. Show was used just like he usually is. Act like a giant but remember to make the other guy look good. Ultimately even that wasnt working too terribly well because they kept adding someone else into the picture for most of his feud with Show. (ex: Daniel Bryan & Sheamus) Plus they even re-used the Lesnar superplex spot with Henry\Show basically saying "Hey, this guy is a monster. No, really. Forget all the years of comedy- he's scary now."


The Hall of Pain was a great catchphrase. It really was, because without it this whole push would not have been the same. Problem is who he was running through as they built Henry up. Not exactly the biggest names. Kozlov, Khali, Big Zeke, Johnny Curtis, Morrison, etc. Along the way they fed him Christian & a few others but mostly in random Tag matches to offset things till Show came back to continue the feud. Then we are back to the Daniel Bryan thing & well, we all know the rest.


So what we have are 2 guys who never necessarily set the world on fire with their main event title runs, but one got WM & one did not. One who has been as solid of an upper mid card competitor you can get -vs- one who had potential, but never really did much other than being a good comedic 'hand'. One is an international wrestling star with a dark ending & one is a weightlifting star who transitioned to a mediocre wrestling career.


Since we are somehow throwing out the fact Benoit actually beat Henry, then we are just left with comparing career accomplishments. Benoit still wins regardless.

Both guys were mid-carders for the majority of their careers. If this was a battle between them at their mid-card stages, Benoit would win. But in Henry's prime, against a prime upper-midcarder Benoit, Benoit would be exactly the kind of guy to be inducted into the Hall of Pain, just like the other upper-midcarders that got inducted. Not to mention, Henry in general has the advantage in a match because of his strength and size. Benoit's style is not very effective against a prime Henry.

The superplex spot made Henry look like a monster. It showed the immense amount of power that Henry had, and it was a great conclusion to a decent battle of the beasts. The story was the monsters trying to conquer one another, with Henry attaining the K.O the first meeting, Henry getting DQ'd the second time and a final war for the title in a chair match, where Henry lost and destroyed Big Show for Bryan to cash in.

All of those names apart from Morrison and Johnny Curtis (and even then, a case COULD be made as the NXT winner for Curtis and former ECW and Tag Champion Morrison) helped convey the point of the Hall of Pain. The monsters (You forgot Kane) all naturally helped Henry establish him as the King of the Monsters and it helped showcase Henry's immense strength. It's what made the feud between Show and Henry surprisingly very compelling. Those monsters were credible threats that were destroyed. Then Henry moved onto destroying the upper-midcarders before dominating the main-event scene until Big Show returned.

This isn't a tournament to determine how consistent someone is, otherwise people would just say "Rocky Maivia" or "The Ringmaster" when they argue against Rock or Austin. It's a tournament to determine who has the tools to survive in a tournament environment. Both of these guys could beat multiple guys in the first round, but Benoit has a rotten draw against a guy who could power out of his submission holds, can't be suplexed by Benoit, and strikes do very little unless coming from another monster. The 2004 mach didn't mean jackshit because Henry meant nothing at that point. When he actually mattered, his run at the top overshadowed Benoit's run at the top.
 
Both guys were mid-carders for the majority of their careers. If this was a battle between them at their mid-card stages, Benoit would win. But in Henry's prime, against a prime upper-midcarder Benoit, Benoit would be exactly the kind of guy to be inducted into the Hall of Pain, just like the other upper-midcarders that got inducted. Not to mention, Henry in general has the advantage in a match because of his strength and size. Benoit's style is not very effective against a prime Henry.

Hasn't stopped Benoit from being him and others of similar strength and size.

The superplex spot made Henry look like a monster. It showed the immense amount of power that Henry had, and it was a great conclusion to a decent battle of the beasts. The story was the monsters trying to conquer one another, with Henry attaining the K.O the first meeting,

It was declared a no-contest. Henry didn't attain anything.

Henry getting DQ'd the second time

So he took the coward's way out? Henry beat him before he was champion. He was too scared to do it when it counted?

and a final war for the title in a chair match, where Henry lost and destroyed Big Show for Bryan to cash in.

Couldn't destroy him and get the pinfall, now could he?



but Benoit has a rotten draw against a guy who could power out of his submission holds


can't be suplexed by Benoit



If he could do this to Viscera, he could certainly do the same to Henry.

and strikes do very little unless coming from another monster

Kurt Angle beat Henry after he took out Batista. Matt Hardy beat Henry clean as a sheet to retain the ECW title. And why can't Benoit beat Henry again?

The 2004 mach didn't mean jackshit because Henry meant nothing at that point.

How long has Henry been billed as the World's Strongest Man?

Was he a weakling in 2004?

I thought he always had his strength and his size. Was he 200 pounds back then and I just didn't see it?

When he actually mattered, his run at the top overshadowed Benoit's run at the top.

Sure took him a long time to actually matter.
 
It was???

Does the 'Hall of Pain' ring a bell to you? That was established in 2011, when Henry was destroying opponents left and right. It got to the point where no one wanted to face him until Sheamus stepped up, and Henry destroyed him at Summerslam. He beat up and put out the Big Show, and did the same to Kane, Pillmanizing them both after clean victories over each. Then there's that match he had with Randy Orton, the face of Smackdown in 2011, at Night of Champions. Henry tossed Orton around like a rag doll, gave him a World's Strongest Slam, and won the World Heavyweight Title.

When Henry and Benoit fought in 2006, Henry not only came out on top, he injured Benoit in the process. Those other wrestlers you mentioned, Batista, Undertaker, and Angle? Henry beat them up too, and put all three out of action for significant amounts of time.

Benoit's title reign was a joke, while Henry was established as a monster heel who could not only defeat, but also, injure anyone in the process. Benoit took weekly beatings from Evolution before dropping the title to Randy Orton in his first try. It took Big Show three tries to finally win the title from Henry, and it was a chairs match at that.

This is a one-on-one, standard match. Benoit is seeded far too high here, and he's gotten a bad draw on top of that. Henry wins this with a WSS, or by countout after he rag-dolls Benoit into the post or through the ring-side barrier.

Either way, Mark Henry in his prime wins this match.

Jan - Dec 2004 Chris Benoit's record by opponent:

Batista: W10 L1 D0
Big Show: W0 L1 D0
Rob Conway: W2 L0 D0
Edge: W8 L2 D2
Eugene: W0 L0 D1
Ric Flair: W5 L0 D0
Matt Hardy: W1 L0 D0
Triple H: W24 L7 D0
Mark Henry: W2 L0 D0
Chris Jericho: W1 L0 D0
Kane: W15 L0 D0
Rodney Mack: W1 L0 D0
Shawn Michaels: W1 L1 D0
Matt Morgan: W0 L1 D0
Randy Orton: W2 L2 D0
Chuck Palumbo: W6 L0 D0
Rhyno: W1 L0 D0
Tyson Tomko: W1 L0 D0
Viscera: W1 L0 D0

Totals: W81 L15 D3

This becomes even more impressive if we only take his WHC run:

Batista: W3 L0 D0
Rob Conway: W1 L0 D0
Eugene: W0 L0 D1
Ric Flair: W3 L0 D0
Triple H: W24 L0 D0
Kane: W14 L0 D0
Shawn Michaels: W1 L0 D0
Matt Morgan: W0 L1 D0
Randy Orton: W2 L1 D0
Rhyno: W1 L0 D0

Totals: W49 L2 D1 (Record against Evolution: W32 L1 D0)


Mark Henry's period from his transfer to SmackDown in April 2011 - April 2012 (when he got injured).

Big Show: W4 L11 D2
Daniel Bryan: W6 L3 D1
John Cena: W0 L2 D0
Christian: W1 L1 D0
Johnny Curtis: W1 L0 D0
Chavo Guerrero Jnr: W1 L0 D0
Bobby Heller: W1 L0 D0
Ezekial Jackson: W3 L0 D0
Kane: W1 L2 D0
Great Khali: W2 L0 D0
Vladimir Kozlov: W1 L0 D0
John Morrison: W2 L0 D0
Rey Mysterio: W0 L1 D0
Randy Orton: W5 L6 D3
CM Punk: W3 L1 D0
Zack Ryder: W0 L1 D0
Sheamus: W2 L17 D0
Yoshi Tatsu: W6 L0 D0

Totals: W39 L45 D6

How about the title reign...

Big Show: W2 L9 D1
Daniel Bryan: W3 L1 D0
John Cena: W0 L1 D0
Christian: W1 L0 D0
Great Khali: W1 L0 D0
John Morrison: W2 L0 D0
Randy Orton: W5 L3 D1
CM Punk: W1 L0 D0
Zack Ryder: W0 L1 D0

Totals: W15 L15 D2

Sorry amigo but Mark loses 'prime' and loses bad!
 
Jan - Dec 2004 Chris Benoit's record by opponent:

Batista: W10 L1 D0
Big Show: W0 L1 D0
Rob Conway: W2 L0 D0
Edge: W8 L2 D2
Eugene: W0 L0 D1
Ric Flair: W5 L0 D0
Matt Hardy: W1 L0 D0
Triple H: W24 L7 D0
Mark Henry: W2 L0 D0
Chris Jericho: W1 L0 D0
Kane: W15 L0 D0
Rodney Mack: W1 L0 D0
Shawn Michaels: W1 L1 D0
Matt Morgan: W0 L1 D0
Randy Orton: W2 L2 D0
Chuck Palumbo: W6 L0 D0
Rhyno: W1 L0 D0
Tyson Tomko: W1 L0 D0
Viscera: W1 L0 D0

Totals: W81 L15 D3

This becomes even more impressive if we only take his WHC run:

Batista: W3 L0 D0
Rob Conway: W1 L0 D0
Eugene: W0 L0 D1
Ric Flair: W3 L0 D0
Triple H: W24 L0 D0
Kane: W14 L0 D0
Shawn Michaels: W1 L0 D0
Matt Morgan: W0 L1 D0
Randy Orton: W2 L1 D0
Rhyno: W1 L0 D0

Totals: W49 L2 D1 (Record against Evolution: W32 L1 D0)


Mark Henry's period from his transfer to SmackDown in April 2011 - April 2012 (when he got injured).

Big Show: W4 L11 D2
Daniel Bryan: W6 L3 D1
John Cena: W0 L2 D0
Christian: W1 L1 D0
Johnny Curtis: W1 L0 D0
Chavo Guerrero Jnr: W1 L0 D0
Bobby Heller: W1 L0 D0
Ezekial Jackson: W3 L0 D0
Kane: W1 L2 D0
Great Khali: W2 L0 D0
Vladimir Kozlov: W1 L0 D0
John Morrison: W2 L0 D0
Rey Mysterio: W0 L1 D0
Randy Orton: W5 L6 D3
CM Punk: W3 L1 D0
Zack Ryder: W0 L1 D0
Sheamus: W2 L17 D0
Yoshi Tatsu: W6 L0 D0

Totals: W39 L45 D6

How about the title reign...

Big Show: W2 L9 D1
Daniel Bryan: W3 L1 D0
John Cena: W0 L1 D0
Christian: W1 L0 D0
Great Khali: W1 L0 D0
John Morrison: W2 L0 D0
Randy Orton: W5 L3 D1
CM Punk: W1 L0 D0
Zack Ryder: W0 L1 D0

Totals: W15 L15 D2

Sorry amigo but Mark loses 'prime' and loses bad!

Nate made some valid arguments that got me to abscond my original thoughts on this match, and had I considered them earlier, I would have voted Benoit. Benoit's prime was much more impressive then I gave him credit for, and I'll allow he'll have won this match, though I believe it would be tougher then you think. There's no chance Henry loses 'easy' here, and using house shows as a qualifier of someone's record holds no merit whatsoever. Benoit didn't defeat HHH 24 times on TV and PPV, nor did Henry do the same by losing nine times to the Big Show. The heel always loses at house shows, mostly by DQ, and the face hits his finisher on the heel champion after to send the crowd home happy. But I digress.

Both had nice runs as champion, but fell quickly back into the mid-card immediately after. Henry got another shot at Money In The Bank 13', but Cena submitted him, so that's not really a mark in his favor, is it?

Of course, Cena did the same to Benoit in '07, but it's Cena. Other then Daniel Bryan and some of the newer wrestlers(Shield, Wyatt's) on the roster, Cena has submitted them all, so it's not an accurate measurement.

Henry is the monster heel, Benoit the underdog. The underdog overcomes the odds, much like Benoit did at WM 20.

I was wrong. The first and last time I will ever type those words. Benoit moves on in a squeaker, kicking away a Henry charge into the corner and rolling him up. Again, it's a squeaker, Benoit's not going to crossface and submit an in his prime Henry in three minutes.
 
Hasn't stopped Benoit from being him and others of similar strength and size.

In Big Show or Kane's prime though?

It was declared a no-contest. Henry didn't attain anything.

If we want to get into technicalities, Mark Henry KO'd Big Show with a superplex.

So he took the coward's way out? Henry beat him before he was champion. He was too scared to do it when it counted?

That's the only real blemish on his WHC run. Champion Heels normally get DQ losses so it's not massive. It's not like Big Show got himself DQ'd against a guy like Benoit. Champion Faces aren't supposed to get help from interference from a comedy act that is more over than you.

Couldn't destroy him and get the pinfall, now could he?

Neither could Benoit pin HHH clean without HBK or Eugene's help, unless veiled in a Iron Match, where HHH could pin Benoit as much as he wanted. Oh yeah, and Eugene helped him there too.



:icon_neutral:

Don't make me pull out the Kane argument again.



If he could do this to Viscera, he could certainly do the same to Henry.

He suplexed Viscera a total of once, and Viscera scarcely got air. Not to mention, it was the penultimate move of the match, and Benoit was against a timer, so he was throwing everything he had in that suplex and crossface to beat the time. And don't even try to say that Henry won't be able to break the crossface because of that. Vis held on for a while, Kane could power out when pretty far out of his prime, and Prime Henry could do even more.

Kurt Angle beat Henry after he took out Batista. Matt Hardy beat Henry clean as a sheet to retain the ECW title. And why can't Benoit beat Henry again?

Angle is noticeably stronger than Benoit so he can throw him around. Not to mention, both matches aren't Henry's prime also. As an example, Khali could take an uppercut from Taker in his prime with ease. In 2013, he nearly got knocked off his feet by a Cesaro uppercut.


How long has Henry been billed as the World's Strongest Man?

Was he a weakling in 2004?

I thought he always had his strength and his size. Was he 200 pounds back then and I just didn't see it?

2004 Kane had MUCH more stock than 2004 Henry. 2011 Henry had much more stock than 2004 Kane.

Sure took him a long time to actually matter.

A guy's prime is a guy's prime, no matter how late it is in their career.

@FitFinlay: Those statistics are quite wrong, I'm afraid. If you're going to post false stats, at least make them realistic. I'm pretty sure HHH never lost 24 fucking times to Benoit during his title run, on TV or PPV at least.
 
Both guys were mid-carders for the majority of their careers. If this was a battle between them at their mid-card stages, Benoit would win.



Ok, so you agree that Benoit was better in terms of what he did in a period of time. The majority of his career, Benoit has made more of an impact then Henry has. You are trying to make a prime vs prime argument (Benoit was still better) yet ignoring your own statement that Benoit had the better career. You really are putting too much weight into a small run while minimizing the entire career of Benoit.





Henry in general has the advantage in a match because of his strength and size. Benoit's style is not very effective against a prime Henry.


Im sorry but are you somehow implying that Henry is strong now, but wasnt in 2004? Or that Benoit cant suplex him?


Thats just silly.



This isn't a tournament to determine how consistent someone is,................ It's a tournament to determine who has the tools to survive in a tournament environment.



That is called conditioning & is a very weak argument. Everyone has the tools to survive a tournament environment. What a dumbass statement. You are better than that Fallout. C'mon bro.


That isnt what this is about. This is about who wins based on criteria including , most importantly, who was a bigger star\had the better career. Since you already agreed Benoit has the better career, then I am not sure why you are still arguing.



Both of these guys could beat multiple guys in the first round, but Benoit has a rotten draw against a guy who could power out of his submission holds,


He could. I guess he just forgot how when Benoit made him tap?




The 2004 mach didn't mean jackshit because Henry meant nothing at that point.


So a victory means nothing? Bullshit.


Also, I do like how your whole argument is that Benoit could have been fed to Henry during his main event push- yet you ignore the point that Henry was, in fact, fed to Benoit during his. Do you see how stupid you sound insisting on the hypothetical while ignoring an obvious reality?
 
Ok, so you agree that Benoit was better in terms of what he did in a period of time. The majority of his career, Benoit has made more of an impact then Henry has. You are trying to make a prime vs prime argument (Benoit was still better) yet ignoring your own statement that Benoit had the better career. You really are putting too much weight into a small run while minimizing the entire career of Benoit.

I agree that if it was a battle over who had the better career overall, Benoit would go over. But I'm comparing prime vs prime here, which is the point of the tournament. I'm not going to compare Bully Ray's run in the Dudleys with Daniel Bryan's time as US Champion. Bully Ray has won a lot more than Bryan has, but Bryan has been an top guy with better competition than Ray's run in TNA. I'm getting off-topic here, so I'll just say that I'm not factoring Benoit's dormancy in the mid-card, and I won't with Henry's either. Henry's stint, short as it may be, was a better run than Benoit's prime run with the WHC, which was also quite short when you think about it.

Also, Benoit as a mid-carder was not a period of his career. It was nearly the entirety of it. Just correcting that.

Im sorry but are you somehow implying that Henry is strong now, but wasnt in 2004? Or that Benoit cant suplex him?


Thats just silly.

No, I'm saying Henry has a hell of a lot more credibility than he did in 2004. If it were as easy as that, Henry wouldn't even be in the tournament in the first place. If Kane could break the submission hold in his down-time, Henry could do it in his prime.

That is called conditioning & is a very weak argument. Everyone has the tools to survive a tournament environment. What a dumbass statement. You are better than that Fallout. C'mon bro.

To be fair, I phrased that very poorly. I meant in the sense that this isn't a tournament about who the greatest ever is (which would require one poll in the Old School Wrestling section), it's about who will win in a fight, like the BZT. That's why we have gimmick rounds so a guy who is normally outclassed has a fighting chance. That's also why we have guys like ADR and Earthquake in the tournament. It would be ludicrous to call them the best in the world, but there might be a first round match-up that favours them. In this match, you guys have shown Benoit can hang with the bigger guys, but none of those guys were equal or better than Henry was in his prime in 2011.

That isnt what this is about. This is about who wins based on criteria including , most importantly, who was a bigger star\had the better career. Since you already agreed Benoit has the better career, then I am not sure why you are still arguing.

Again, why do you think we have gimmick rounds if they won't make a difference? Are we supposed to only analyse the actual wrestling in those matches alone? All we have to do is post one thread on the Old School Wrestling forum to determine who people think is the best.


He could. I guess he just forgot how when Benoit made him tap?

Responded to LJL about this.





So a victory means nothing? Bullshit.

Did Ultimate Warrior beating HHH in a squash mean anything? Not at all because it was well outside HHH's prime.

Also, I do like how your whole argument is that Benoit could have been fed to Henry during his main event push- yet you ignore the point that Henry was, in fact, fed to Benoit during his. Do you see how stupid you sound insisting on the hypothetical while ignoring an obvious reality?

I'm ignoring the reality because it bears very little to no weight on the conversation. If we want to talk about reality that matters, it's that Henry was beating upper-midcarders, and even Randy Orton consistently to overtake them in his Hall of Pain run, while Benoit could only beat the guys above him in either a triple threat environment or with the help of a comedy ******. Twice.
 
@FitFinlay: Those statistics are quite wrong, I'm afraid. If you're going to post false stats, at least make them realistic. I'm pretty sure HHH never lost 24 fucking times to Benoit during his title run, on TV or PPV at least.

http://wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=bilanzen&bilanzart=&wrestler=24&jahr=2004&monat=7

A typical month in his reign.

LSN, Henry's house show record has to count. He was being built as a monster heel and monster heels dominate - even at house shows...

http://wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=bilanzen&bilanzart=&wrestler=335&jahr=2002&monat=9
 
http://wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=bilanzen&bilanzart=&wrestler=24&jahr=2004&monat=7

A typical month in his reign.

LSN, Henry's house show record has to count. He was being built as a monster heel and monster heels dominate - even at house shows...

http://wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=bilanzen&bilanzart=&wrestler=335&jahr=2002&monat=9

It doesn't matter who wins or loses at house shows at all, and to suggest so is moronic.

You're missing the point of house shows too. The final match of house shows are the ones that are supposed to send the fans home happy, with a face going over a heel pretty much 100% of the time. Benoit's prime was as a face, Henry's was as a heel. No storyline advancement, and far from an important match.
 
The final match of house shows are the ones that are supposed to send the fans home happy, with a face going over a heel pretty much 100% of the time.

Benoit's prime was as a face, Henry's was as a heel.

Exactly. Benoit's prime was as a face. Henry's so-called prime was as a heel.

This match is Prime Benoit vs Prime Henry.

Prime Benoit will always be booked to beat Prime Henry.

Thank you for proving our point of why a Prime Benoit will win this match.
 
Exactly. Benoit's prime was as a face. Henry's so-called prime was as a heel.

This match is Prime Benoit vs Prime Henry.

Prime Benoit will always be booked to beat Prime Henry.

Thank you for proving our point.

But this isn't a typical house show match. By that logic, anyone who had a prime as a heel can't get past a guy who had any sort of prime as a face.

Thank you for continuing to disgrace the respectable Benoit case.
 
It doesn't matter who wins or loses at house shows at all, and to suggest so is moronic.

You're missing the point of house shows too. The final match of house shows are the ones that are supposed to send the fans home happy, with a face going over a heel pretty much 100% of the time. Benoit's prime was as a face, Henry's was as a heel. No storyline advancement, and far from an important match.

And yet Brock Lesnar won the vast majority of his house show matches when he was champion. Monsters should win, house show or not.
 
And yet Brock Lesnar won the vast majority of his house show matches when he was champion. Monsters should win, house show or not.

Because Brock Lesnar had an undefeated streak that was meant to be broken at Survivor Series by The Big Show. Henry had no such winning streak, so it wouldn't hurt him as much to lose.
 
I meant in the sense that this isn't a tournament about who the greatest ever is



Ummmm....

Welcome to the 8th Annual WrestleZone Tournament! Over the next several weeks we'll be going through a bracket to determine the greatest wrestler of all time.


200.gif





it's about who will win in a fight,


Jericho goes over Goldberg then yes? Brock Lesnar vs Ken Shamrock in the finals?

or do you mean:

Like the fight that already has taken place where Benoit won? Or are we talking about a hypothetical match you think could have happened in 2011/2012? In that case Zombie Benoit > Mark Henry.


Person with the better career? Benoit
Match history? Benoit
Better finisher? Benoit
Wrestlemania main events? Benoit


Notice a pattern there? I will give you this one though, Mark Henry was better at getting intimate with old ladies & trannies. That accolade you can have.
 
I'm sorry but neither of these guys really had a "prime" to be proud of. Seriously if you're talking about a few months being a guys "prime" then you shouldn't even use it in your debate. Legacy here matter because neither guy had a great "prime" or much of a prime at all.
 
^Easy tiger, save the Misawa propaganda for the next round. Which I don't necessarily disagree with.


Sorry to grasp at straws here, but why would there be gimmick rounds if that was 100% the case? To give guys like Vader a chance against someone like Austin. Which implies it's not just about legacy, otherwise Hogan, Sammartino, Flair and Thesz would always be the final four of the tournament, and it wouldn't be fun. You could easily make a poll and give it publicity and get a very similar result. We actually look into fights and their abilities, like the BZT tournament with both guys at the peak of their form.

That's actually something worth talking to KB about to clarify now that I think about it.

Like the fight that already has taken place where Benoit won? Or are we talking about a hypothetical match you think could have happened in 2011/2012? In that case Zombie Benoit > Mark Henry.


Person with the better career? Benoit
Match history? Benoit
Better finisher? Benoit
Wrestlemania main events? Benoit


Notice a pattern there? I will give you this one though, Mark Henry was better at getting intimate with old ladies & trannies. That accolade you can have.

A match that would take place on a neutral battleground, in a timezone where both guys are at their peak. Plus, this entire tournament is pretty much all hypothetical when you think about it.

And you know, he's stronger ofc.
 
Although Henry was a force to be reckoned with during his "Hall of Pain" run, he has had about a year and a half of being taken seriously as a top level wrestler during his 15 year+ career, while Chris Benoit was at least at IC title level for pretty much his entire WWE run. Benoit beat better than Henry, multiple times. I don't see any reason why this match would be any different.

Benoit is simply better than Henry is, and has ever been. He's one of the best technical wrestlers of all time, with one of the most deadly submission holds in history. Henry may have been given a win or 2 over Benoit when he was the Smackdown champion, but if we are looking at their whole careers and who is a better wrestler, then Benoit's achievements are far greater. He would win this.
 
Because Brock Lesnar had an undefeated streak that was meant to be broken at Survivor Series by The Big Show. Henry had no such winning streak, so it wouldn't hurt him as much to lose.

Okay then, Benoit faced Triple H 7 times prior to WrestleMania and lost all 7. No streak here, so why didn't the face win to send the fans home happy?
 
Okay then, Benoit faced Triple H 7 times prior to WrestleMania and lost all 7. No streak here, so why didn't the face win to send the fans home happy?

Because Benoit wasn't established enough yet to beat HHH at all, and even when he could, he couldn't do it cleanly. Also, I'll put my money on there being some beat-down at the end, but HBK comes out to make the save and send the crowd happy. Seriously though, stop reading into house show matches, this is enviousdominious/PWF tier, and you should know better than that.
 
Because Benoit wasn't established enough yet to beat HHH at all, and even when he could, he couldn't do it cleanly. Also, I'll put my money on there being some beat-down at the end, but HBK comes out to make the save and send the crowd happy. Seriously though, stop reading into house show matches, this is enviousdominious/PWF tier, and you should know better than that.

This is kayfabe and (as such) house show records count. Otherwise we forget Diesel's WWF Championship run, Sting's title victory over Vader in the UK or that Flair and Hogan never really happened in the WWF because Vince felt that he'd already oversaturated the storyline on the houseshow market.

"Wasn't established enough"? The same Benoit who had PPV victories over Kurt Angle, Big Show and Brock Lesnar prior to this? Oh, and Trips defeated HBK as well on the run up to Mania - is he also unworthy?
 
This is kayfabe and (as such) house show records count. Otherwise we forget Diesel's WWF Championship run, Sting's title victory over Vader in the UK or that Flair and Hogan never really happened in the WWF because Vince felt that he'd already oversaturated the storyline on the houseshow market.

"Wasn't established enough"? The same Benoit who had PPV victories over Kurt Angle, Big Show and Brock Lesnar prior to this? Oh, and Trips defeated HBK as well on the run up to Mania - is he also unworthy?

:icon_neutral:

There's a MASSIVE difference between a house show title change back in the 80's and 90's and a normal dual-branded house show in, let's say Cardiff in the 00's. You're counting house shows from small US cities and the like, which pale in comparison to say the January house show where Hogan beat Sheik.

Benoit had yet to reach his prime at that time as it was Wrestlemania build-up. HBK had had his prime already in the 90's, so it's not a big deal for HBK.
 
:icon_neutral:

There's a MASSIVE difference between a house show title change back in the 80's and 90's and a normal dual-branded house show in, let's say Cardiff in the 00's. You're counting house shows from small US cities and the like, which pale in comparison to say the January house show where Hogan beat Sheik.

Benoit had yet to reach his prime at that time as it was Wrestlemania build-up. HBK had had his prime already in the 90's, so it's not a big deal for HBK.

Christian defeated Booker T for the IC belt just months prior to this in Des Moines, Iowa. In 2008 in Hamilton, Ontario The Miz/John Morrison defeated CM Punk/Kofi Kingston for the Tag Belts. Epico and Primo won the Tag Belts off Air Boom two years ago in Oakland. The Women's Title changed hands in Paris in 2007. Title changes are rare but house shows still generally follow storyline and exceptions like those listed still provide that slight possibility that brings in paying customers.

Benoit was coming off a period were he defeated three former World Champions (Angle, Show, Lesnar), I don't think he was too far off his prime... unlike Henry, who was drafted to SmackDown after two years of failing to win tag team gold.
 
Using house show results for pro wrestling is like using preseason NFL games for arguments. Every now and then you can find some decent info, but most of the information is largely useless.

Most house show title changes have story behind them. When Air Boom lost the titles it was days after Bourne pissed hot, so they pretty much defaulted the titles to the only other relevant team at the time.
 
Using house show results for pro wrestling is like using preseason NFL games for arguments. Every now and then you can find some decent info, but most of the information is largely useless.

Most house show title changes have story behind them. When Air Boom lost the titles it was days after Bourne pissed hot, so they pretty much defaulted the titles to the only other relevant team at the time.

Maybe so, and if I was picking a single show, I'd be pissing up the stupid tree. However, houseshows can be used as an overview of a reasonably lengthy title run to gauge how the champion is being presented. In this case, Benoit was portrayed as a strong champion who overcame strong opponents and Henry was portrayed as a guy who relied on DQs and Countouts to overcome his better opponents. As the argument for Mark is the dominance of his reign, this goes against the argument.

However, to be fair here is Mark's 1vs1 television history with the BGB:

Randy Orton: 2 clean wins and 2 dq loses
Christian: 1 clean win
Great Khali: 1 clean win
John Morrison: 1 clean win
CM Punk: 1 dq win
Daniel Bryan: 1 clean win and 1 dq win
Big Show: 1 no contest and 1 clean defeat

So in his 2 month reign he had 6 clean wins out of 12 1on1 matches, not really that dominant.

Benoit's TV reign:

Rhyno: 1 clean win
Rob Conway: 1 clean win
Shawn Michaels: 1 clean win
Kane: 2 clean wins
Triple H: 2 clean wins
Eugene: 1 no contest
Batista: 1 dq win
Randy Orton: 1 clean loss

In his 5 month reign he had 7 clean wins out of 10 1on1 matches (and that's ignoring both 3 ways) despite the best efforts of Evolution throughout his reign.
 
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