Intl. Region, Leeds Subregion, First Round: (4) Chris Benoit vs. (29) Mark Henry

Discussion in 'International Region' started by klunderbunker, Mar 28, 2014.

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Who Wins This Matchup?

  1. Chris Benoit

  2. Mark Henry

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  1. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    This is a first round match in the International Region, Leeds Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under standard wrestling rules. It will be held at the Leeds Arena in Leeds, England.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    #4. Chris Benoit

    Vs.

    [​IMG]

    #29. Mark Henry



    Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

    Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.
     
    #1
  2. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    Do you know what happens when the Rabid Wolverine meets the Worlds Strongest Man? Mark Henry taps out in less than 3 minutes.


    Chris Benoit is not scared of Mark Henry. He is tough enough to take whatever Mark can dish out & all he needs is a second to slap on the crossface. Done deal.


    Chris Benoit moves on to round two.
     
    #2
  3. Dan Severn's Moustache

    Dan Severn's Moustache Patent Pending

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    Do not let the seedings above fool you into recklessly voting Chris Benoit, because this is a terrible match-up for Chris Benoit for multiple reasons which I'm going to go into shortly.

    Before I begin, I'd just like to point out that I consider the prime of Benoit to be 2004 during his World Title Reign, and 2011 for Henry during his own reign, so those are the times that I am going to be analysing. I will factor in Henry's escalating hall of pain at the time also, as well as Benoit's Royal Rumble victory and gain of momentum

    Let's first discuss the title defences that these men had to endure throughout their reign. After Benoit won his title in an outstanding triple threat match at Wrestlemania against Shawn Michaels and Triple H, he first defended it in a rematch at Backlash, which was fair enough as both challengers were entitled to rematch clauses. But then it went down-hill VERY quickly. I'm talking about as early as Badd Blood 2003. Now, don't get me wrong, Kane is one of my favourite wrestlers, but this was during his very awkward period of the career where he was a glorified mid-carder and didn't mean nearly as much as he had done before (he feuded with Snitsky at the end of the year. See what I'm getting at here?), and Benoit was tasked with defending his title against him, in once again, a good match and one of Kane's best. But then you had the Cell match afterwards between HHH and HBK, and something was clearly evident: Benoit was overshadowed by Triple H, and with that Evolution and HBK on the Raw roster. We then move onto Vengeance, where the main catalyst for the Triple H and Benoit feud was not the title, but Eugene, a comedy character. This lead to the ENTHRALLING clash of HHH vs Eugene at Summerslam, but Benoit defended the title, but once again being made to look weak by HHH. At Summerslam, Benoit lost the title in an underrated classic against Randy Orton, and he was pretty much struck out of the main event for the rest of his WWE career, and stayed in upper-midcard/midcard territory until his death.

    Mark Henry begun his reign by defeating the top Smackdown babyface Randy Orton and firmly established himself as a dominant champion, losing only ONCE by pinfall due to interference from Cena (I don't count the early Bryan cash-in because it was never an official match) while he was champion, while Benoit lost many tag team contests. He defended his title against Orton at Hell in a Cell before colliding with a surprisingly excellent big man feud with the Big Show, with both men showing extreme dominance throughout the feud (a rarity), before Henry finally lost his championship at TLC, before DESTROYING Big Show for Bryan to cash in MITB, but that's a story for another time.

    The difference between the two title reigns is conspicuous. Henry was established as the top guy on Smackdown during his reign, as he usurped the top babyface and became a dominant heel of his brand. Benoit wasn't even the second biggest star on Raw at the time, as Triple H and Shawn clearly overshadowed him even when he was champion. Henry was clearly made out to be the biggest star of his show, and with guys like Orton, Big Show and Sheamus on Smackdown to deal with, while Benoit was just treated as upper mid-card. Before anyone throws any stupid stuff about Smackdown being a B-Show, Randy Orton was the second biggest babyface at the time of Henry's reign (Punk had only just started to rise during this time period) in the entire WWE, and Henry beat him clean twice. Benoit and his tag-team partner Edge (midcarder at the time) were losing to La Resistance of all people consistently, and yeah, Edge was getting pinned, but a pinfall loss is still a pinfall loss. Kane was no longer a big deal at the time of his match, and Triple H was made to look dominant during his match against Benoit and lost because of Eugene's interference. Benoit had to enlist the help of a ******ed guy to beat Triple H in a one on one match. Mark Henry beat his closest competition, the biggest babyface outside of John Cena clean twice.

    OK, now that's out of the way, let's look at the other reasons why Benoit should lose this match, and another reason is that Benoit's style is simply not very good against a man like Mark Henry. He could scarcely suplex Kane, and Henry is 100lbs heavier than he is, and a harder frame to throw around, leaving strikes as his only means of primary offence, which simply isn't enough to stop 2011 Henry unless you're a very heavy hitter, which Benoit is not. Don't get me wrong, his chops hurt, but not to the extent that they would knock Henry off his feet like a boot from the Big Show would, unless Benoit jumped from the top rope which would leave him INCREDIBLY vulnerable to being caught and slammed down to the mat.

    What's more, Mark Henry is billed as THE world's strongest man. People who aren't Mark Henry have powered out of his submission holds before (hell, Kane did it in 2004 I believe), even the Crossface. Mark has enough in the tank to power out of Benoit's grip quite a few times, giving him MUCH more time to dish out punishment to Benoit. Benoit has an excellent fighting style, but it just simply isn't very effective against a man like Mark Henry.

    The final main reason that Benoit should lose here is that Benoit matches the criteria for a person that Henry would dispatch in his Hall of Pain. He's a credible threat being an upper-midcarder during his time as champion, but not enough to overcome the monster heel that is Mark Henry. If Benoit was still alive in 2011 and still the upper-midcarder champion that he was back in 2004 (let's say he's overshadowed by Orton), then Henry would have dispatched him just like he dispatched the TOP babyface Randy Orton. Benoit was playing second fiddle to HBK through a large portion of his title reign as the top Raw babyface. Nobody could match Mark Henry as a heel or a monster until the Big Show finally stood up to him and won the title, but it took him THREE chances to win the title from Henry, before Henry annihilated him and Bryan cashed in. It took Orton only one chance against Benoit, and he successfully defended his title against him the next night on Raw.

    I know the seeding suggests that Benoit should win, but Mark Henry was an absolute FORCE during his peak as champion, unlike Benoit's peak at champion, where was the third guy on the Raw Roster.

    Benoit is simply outmatched here, and is inducted into the Hall of Pain.

    Vote Mark Henry.
     
    #3
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  4. FunKay the Inevitable

    FunKay the Inevitable People Like Me, We Don't Play

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    Oh, Mark Henry. The only time I can recall these two meeting is on an episode of SmackDown in 2006 and Mark Henry completely destroyed Benoit, sending him on a sabbatical for the summer. This is Mark Henry in 2006 folks, who let's face it, wasn't exactly at the peak of his powers and yes, the same can obviously be said for Benoit, but in 2006, Chris Benoit was a main event talent.

    Mark Henry was flirting with that scene himself, but wouldn't fully ascend to that level until 2011 when he hit his stride and peak and the Hall of Pain opened. When Henry was in his prime, he was swatting away all comers. He took out big men, wrecked smaller, gifted athletes like Randy Orton, Christian, y'know the Chris Benoit size/weight and stood toe to toe with men larger than him, and more often than not, escaped with the "W".

    Benoit's good, there's no doubt, but he's at a disadvantage to Mark Henry here and I'm thinking that Chris Benoit is about to join the Hall...of Pain.
     
    #4
  5. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

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    Shame on the selection committee for making a joke of Benoit's ranking so he can be the victim of such an upset. But let's face it, even at his best he wasn't that good. His biggest moment came when another guy was in a match to help him wear down his opponent.

    And this is a bad draw for him. While I'm sure Benoit submitted large men with the crossface I'm just not buying it here. Plus no one should be top rope head butting Henry's massive gord.

    WSS and caput, a number four seed is already gone.
     
    #5
  6. Alex

    Alex King Of The Wasteland

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    I highly doubt Benoit can get the crossface or sharpshooter on Henry and that would be the only way he could win.

    To knock Henry off his feet you either have to be as big/bigger than him and/or be ridiculously strong. Benoit is neither of those things. Sure he's strong but I don't think he could lift up Henry or even knock him off his feet. And there lies the problem. For Benoit to lock in the crossface or sharpshooter he'd have to knock Henry over and I just don't see that happening.
     
    #6
  7. Con T.

    Con T. Yaz ain't enough, I need Fluttershy

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    You know what Chris Benoit is at his best doing?

    Having really great matches, that he winds up often losing, and making the other guy look like gold.

    You know what Mark Henry is at his best doing?

    Kicking ass, and looking like an absolute monster.

    If you don't pick Mark Henry, you really don't understand either character, or booking in general. It's that simple.

    Mark Henry. That's what I do!
     
    #7
  8. ProWrestlingFan

    ProWrestlingFan Championship Contender

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    Chris Benoit defeated 2 of the WWE's top stars, Triple H and Shawn Michaels clean at 2 consecutive PPVs, one of them being the biggest show of the year, Wrestlemania to win the World Heavyweight Title.

    The only big push Mark Henry ever got was in 2006 and even then he was constantly booked to lose to Kurt Angle,Undertaker,Batista etc.

    And people saying "Benoit can't defeat a guy like Mark Henry with Crossface"......Really?

    Benoit defeated guys like Nathan Jones, Matt Morgan, A-Train, Viscera etc with the crossface, even Big Show (WWE MSG Show Sep 20th 2003 -Chris Benoit defeated The Big Show by Submission)... so that point is moot.
     
    #8
  9. Con T.

    Con T. Yaz ain't enough, I need Fluttershy

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    Ladies and gentlemen, point, and, made.

    Did you miss 2011, where Mark Henry was pushed as a destroyer of worlds? Randy Orton lost clean, in the middle of the ring, twice to Mark Henry. So did Big Show, so did Daniel Bryan (who by the way, is the closest thing we have to Chris Benoit walking this Earth).

    And, might I point out... All of the names you mentioned in 2006? They're all ten times better than Chris Benoit. And, during that same 2006, it was Mark Henry that squashed Chris Benoit, and put him out of action.

    Chris Benoit didn't win in 2006; he isn't winning now.
     
    #9
  10. Dan Severn's Moustache

    Dan Severn's Moustache Patent Pending

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    A) Whilst they were primarily focusing on one another because they were in a massive feud, giving Benoit an advantage.

    B) And with both guys being prioritized over Benoit, as evidenced by Badd Blood 2004. Benoit wasn't even the top babyface of the brand.

    Are you really that fucking cretinous? Does 2011 Mark Henry, his PEAK, exist to you at all?

    Kane powered out of the hold quite easily in 2004, during Benoit's peak. If Kane could do it in one of his worst years ever, then surely the World Strongest Man could do it in his peak too.

    Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that Kane broke the hold during one of his worst years, and he's not the world's strongest man. Henry however is billed as the world's strongest man, which suggest that he too could break the hold. And that's not even factoring if Benoit can get a chance to lock in the hold.
     
    #10
  11. ProWrestlingFan

    ProWrestlingFan Championship Contender

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    Benoit was booked to win the Royal Rumble and main-event Wrestlemania with two of WWE's top guys, Triple H and Shawn Michaels to win the World Heavyweight title which at that point was THE title.

    Mark Henry won the B-Show title at a 'B PPV' beating Orton, who at that point was losing to guys like Christian. Big fucking difference.
     
    #11
  12. ProWrestlingFan

    ProWrestlingFan Championship Contender

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    Benoit was the center of attention for the whole fued.

    And Mark Henry was?


    Mark Henry taps out to Chris Benoit. ​


     
    #12
  13. Con T.

    Con T. Yaz ain't enough, I need Fluttershy

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    And coincidentally enough, was never booked as "the guy" of Raw. He wasn't even the top face... That would belong to Shawn Michaels. Hell, Chris didn't even main event one of his PPV's... Coincidentally the one where he wasn't fighting Triple H or Shawn Michaels. To make matters worse, he was in an opening match, before wrestling Kane.

    I guess my point is, in spite of how you want to twist it, Chris Benoit was never the guy. Chris Benoit was upstaged by Eugene, even during his title reign.

    Eugene.
     
    #13
  14. Dan Severn's Moustache

    Dan Severn's Moustache Patent Pending

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    Sure, he won the Royal Rumble from #1, which is an impressive feat, but that doesn't change the fact that the HBK/HHH feud was the primary focus of the match. Part of what makes the excellent psychology of this match work is that Benoit was the sleeper candidate while the two bitter rivals clashed. Sure, they attacked Benoit, but HHH and HBK were hellbent on destroying one another in that match, which led to Benoit capitalizing and winning. He doesn't have that advantage in this match-up.

    [YOUTUBE]u-54OpEwE0w[/YOUTUBE]

    And it's also addressed extremely poorly, with guys like Randy Orton, Sheamus and The Big Show, all 3 of them established baby-faces being thorns in Henry's side and he still the first two, and it took Big Show three times to finally take down Henry, only to be destroyed afterwards.

    Benoit in the meanwhile beat a glorified mid-carder and HHH with the help of a ******ed character in solo matches. So he really doesn't have an advantage here at all.

    @Your response to my post: No, he was focused on being the sleeper candidate, which is what helped make the match fucking awesome. Shawn and HHH had a match at the Rumble and were still locked in a feud.

    Mark Henry was the biggest heel on Smackdown by far.

    7 years before his prime. From a kayfabe standpoint, he'd be FAR more likely to break the hold in 2011 against 2004 Benoit (which is funny, considering you posted prime Benoit and WAY pre-prime Henry)
     
    #14
  15. The Brain

    The Brain King Of The Ring

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    I'll take Benoit here. He may never have been the number one guy in any company he worked for but he did have success in any promotion he worked for throughout the world. Mark Henry has only worked for WWE, which I don't have a problem with, but it took him 15 years to finally live up to his potential and be considered more than just a joke. 2011 finally did help erase the memories of Sami, Mae Young, and losing his virginity to his sister but Mark Henry didn't have the long term success Benoit did. Henry was awesome for about six months in 2011 but a great six month run during an 18 year career with the same company is not getting him past Benoit.
     
    #15
  16. Alex

    Alex King Of The Wasteland

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    That's all well and good but Benoit was never a big deal in any of the companies he worked for.

    Sure he was good and had success but he was never 'The Guy'. Yes he had world title reigns and had some good feuds with top guys. But after that he'd just go down the card again.

    Henry's dominance in 2011 even if it was only for 6 months really trumps anything Benoit did overall.

    If we were to compare them to One Hit Wonders Benoit would be The Knack-My Sharona. You know the song but can't really remember the artist. Henry would be A-ha-Take On Me. You know the song and you know the artist and wonder why they didn't do more.
     
    #16
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  17. The Brain

    The Brain King Of The Ring

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    Mark Henry was never 'The Guy' either. I loved what he was doing in the second half of 2011 but he wasn't as dominant as people are making him out to be. He beat Randy Orton for the world title which was impressive. After that he struggled against The Big Show before dropping the title to him three months after winning the title. Henry hasn't been anywhere near as successful since. If he was that guy for at least a few of his 18 years with the company I'd probably give Henry the vote. For most of his career Henry was either irrelevant or a joke. I'd say Benoit's WrestleMania main event title win over both Triple H and Shawn Michaels really trumps anything Henry did overall.

    And My Sharona > Take On Me.
     
    #17
  18. deem

    deem Getting Noticed By Management

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    I'm torn on this so I'll just make some early points and wait for arguments to sway my vote.

    A) This is prime vs prime. The only Mark Henry you need to consider is late 2011, a run which is up there in dominance to anything we've seen in 10 years in WWE. Can you name anyone that dismantled Orton that much so frequently? Also, during that time he was rampant against an emerging MITB-holding Daniel bryan, pretty comparable to Benoit (albeit a lesser version at that stage).

    B) Kayfabe, every "The Crossface is ineffective on someone Henry's size" argument is quite silly. His record vs The Big Show is 3-3 lifetime (Big Show has always been near prime, Benoit definitely stepped it up in 2004 and never faced Big Show around that time. 2003, he traded wins on house shows with him).

    C) I do think Benoit fits the bill of the type that Henry was going over in 2011, even at his prime. Prime-Benoit WAS the afterthought to HHH during his reign before losing it to an emerging Randy Orton. Mark Henry was the boy on Smackdown, surpassing the established top level Randy Orton in the process.

    I think I'm leaning towards Henry but didn't expect that coming into this
     
    #18
  19. Randy Orton's Head Blood

    Randy Orton's Head Blood Swinging with Cesaro...

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    Reading through this, you've all made me change my mind.
    I said Benoit at the start before I opened this page, but after reading through it, I can see that Mark Henry actually has a HUGE chance to beat Benoit here.

    He, as has been said, was never "the" guy, although people do make him out to be quite a lot. Then again, considering his actions, the fact that people make him out to be so amazing is quite a miracle.

    Either way, Mark Henry isn't necessarily the dominant beast you all think him to be. Remember, Daniel Bryan defeated him AND Big Show (Granted, in a Steel Cage match), but if he can overcome these two men, then why couldn't Benoit overcome the one?

    I'm undecided right now, will see what others come up with.
     
    #19
  20. Con T.

    Con T. Yaz ain't enough, I need Fluttershy

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    See, here's the thing; I'm not all that sure he was all that much lesser, at the time.

    Think about Chris Benoit, before his 2004 run. He was more in the mix towards the Smackdown tag titles, than he was fighting against the main event. He faced off with Cena quite a bit, but that was "Basic Thuganomics" Cena, as opposed to the Cena we all know now. When he went up against Angle and Lesnar (the stars of Smackdown, by far and away) Benoit lost. He looked great in his losses, but still came up empty handed.

    Daniel Bryan, much the same way, didn't really have his push juiced up until he actually cashed in his MITB. He got his fair share of wins, mainly against the mid card (Cody Rhodes, Wade Barrett). But when he got the matchup against Mark Henry, it usually wound up with him receiving a tough loss, looking good in the face of defeat.

    The two are actually quite comparable; when both did get the shove, they found better results. Though to my knowledge, Benoit never really beat Angle or Lesnar, during that 2003 run.

    So, I don't necessarily think the two are that different, and I think including that sort of evidence draws you to a better conclusion of what a Henry-Benoit match may have looked like.
     
    #20
  21. ProWrestlingFan

    ProWrestlingFan Championship Contender

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    Thats false.

    Backlash 2004 :
    Main-event - Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H for the World Heavyweight Championship - Benoit won

    Bad Blood 2004 - Benoit wrestled in 2 matches. One was for the tag-team championship while the other match was for the World Heavyweight Championship vs. Kane which took place just before HBK vs HHH obviously because their match was Hell in a Cell. Benoit retained the title.

    Vengeance 2004 :
    Main-event - Chris Benoit vs Triple H for the World Heavyweight Championship - Benoit won

    Summerslam 2004 - Main event was Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit for the World Heavyweight title.

    Benoit main-evented all the PPVs during his title reign except Bad Blood because of Hell in a Cell.

    Benoit's title reign was longer and meant more than Mark Henry's title reign.
    Also, how many ppvs did Mark Henry main-event during his title reign? ZERO. When Mark Henry won the title it was passed around to mid-carders like Jack Swagger, Christian etc.
     
    #21
  22. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    Do you remember Benoit's first match on Raw after the Rumble? It was against Mark Henry who tapped to him in less than 3 minutes. He's made Big Show tap and Kane as well. Benoit doesn't need to make Henry submit to win. He's beaten Kane and Big Show other ways as well. Henry couldn't even get a clean win on Big Show after he won the title so all we really have is Henry beating Orton a couple of times. I still will take Benoit's run over Henry's.
     
    #22
  23. Con T.

    Con T. Yaz ain't enough, I need Fluttershy

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    You know why I highlighted this, right?

    No? Let me help.


    You noticing a more common thread here?

    Every PPV but Summerslam was highlighted by Triple H.

    And who highlighted the Summerslam where Benoit dutifully handed over his title?

    Randy Orton, protégé of Triple H.

    Triple H was the guy. He was the main eventer. He was the star. Chris Benoit received his trophy for his hard work; whether or not it should have happened, he played second fiddle to Triple H.

    Oh, and Benoit main evented those PPVS, because it was the era of brand split PPVS. You know, the ones that had increasingly awful buyrates?
     
    #23
  24. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
    E-Fed Mod

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    On the contrary Benoit was booked as mostly a midcarder to an upper midcarder for most of his career prior to maybe 2002. And even up til 2007 prior to his championship run he was basically on the same level as Henry card wise. Henry has been a consistent upper midcarder following 2006. In 2011 he broke that glass ceiling. IMO his retirement promo alone trumps anything Benoit did, entertainment wise. Benoit's Mania moment was special because you had Chris and Eddie celebrating the moment when they both broke that glass ceiling together.

    TBH I was leaning towards Benoit because his overall legacy was greater. However it's arguable that Henry was a bigger deal during his prime. He was hyped as the top heel in the company, the difference between most top heels being he was world champion. Benoit was a fighting champion, but henry was booked to be seemingly untouchable. And really for the first time in his career too.

    If comes down to drawing power or legacy when virtually every other criteria is the same then I'm going to choose drawing power. I'm voting Henry for the upset.
     
    #24
  25. Randy Orton's Head Blood

    Randy Orton's Head Blood Swinging with Cesaro...

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    I need to say, with this, that's nothing to do with Mark Henry.

    This is because it's the World Heavyweight Championship.

    Also, Little Jerry Lawler, I never said Mark Henry would definitely win, I was saying people were giving me good reason to believe he could. However, you've highlighted the Benoit prospect in more light than I could.
     
    #25
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