Int'l Region, DC Subregion, First Round: (10) Vader vs. (23) Bully Ray

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round match in the International Region, Washington D.C. Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under International Rules. It will be held at the Verizon Center in Washington D.C.

#10. Vader

Vs.

#23. Bully Ray

​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Con T.]

Oh good, the Japanese bracket now has matches in America. How swell. Maybe the whole bullshit argument of Vader being Godzilla in Japan won't come up this year. I doubt it, though. I doubt it because you all are dumb, and voting Vader is dumb.

Vader, as I've repeated over and over again, is a shitty worker. In a world in which the goal is to make it look like you are hurting your opponent (and actually don't hurt him/her), and draw money, Vader actually did hurt his opponents, and drew dick money. He is the antithesis of what a wrestler should be.

The problem is, for everything bad about Vader, Bully Ray is, too. And fuck, he's worse. Vader's a bully; Bubba is a bully. Vader is fucking stiff; so is Bully. Vader flopped in WWE; Bully was never going to succeed in WWE, but every time he worked as a singles in WWE, it flopped. Both guys had to become the big (fat) fish in the small pond to achieve their greatest success.

It's just that Vader managed to have more success than Bully Ray. Vader wins, by managing to suck less.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

As highly as Vader is regarded on these forums, I've never really enjoyed his matches. He's definitely the guy to vote for in this match though, and that's coming from a guy who loved Bully Ray's TNA run.

Bully has spent most of his career as a tag-team wrestler, and a short (albeit very good) TNA singles run does not stand up to Vader's very successful career- the man won multiple World Titles in Japan, multiple WCW World Titles and is by far the more successful singles wrestler. Bully has been brilliant in his time in TNA, but his only singles runs before that were in WWE, where he flopped.

It has to be Vader in this match.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Good morning, Wrestlezone Forums. My name is IrishCanadian25. It's nice to meet you newer posters.

I realize that many of you aren't familiar with me since what has basically amounted to me retirement from the forums, and as a result, there is a crop of tremendous young posters who have not been properly educated on the merits of Big Van Vader, the greatest Superheavyweight in Professional Wrestling History.

For comparison sake, my personal top-5 list goes as follows:

1. Big Van Vader
2. Andre the Giant
3. Bam Bam Bigelow
4. Yokozuna
5. Paul Wight

For these purposes I do not consider The Undertaker or Kane to be Superheavyweights. My cut off is usually 325 lbs, and I always felt Taker's size was grossly over represented.

There are a number of reasons why I feel Big Van Vader is unequivocally the greatest SHW in history, and while I'd have liked to have saved this particular post for a more marquee match, Vader's low seed and the reaction to him in this thread has caused me concern.

So here we go.

1. Big Van Vader is among the most agile SHW's in history.

One of my long time rival posters, Tastycles, LOVES to just dismiss the SHW's as "fatty's," which is not only perpetuating the stereotype that only guys with six packs and clearly defined body builder muscle mass can possibly be good athletes. This is sickeningly wrong. Though I respect Tastycles as an intellectual, his stance on the SHW's is grossly off kilter.

This is the case with Big Van Vader. Though he weighs in at 450-lbs and has a round stomach, this does not, in any way, hinder him from performing with the speed and agility of a much smaller man. He has transcended the short-minded stereotypes in every way imaginable.

[YOUTUBE]vRVn_XZPoYM[/YOUTUBE]​

Vader performed that moonsault with ease and repetition in New Japan, WCW, Germany, etc. A 450-lb man fearlessly backflipped off the top rope. The only other SHW who regularly did such things in the U.S. was Bill DeMott when he was "Hugh Morris" and "General Rection." Vader did it better, cleaner, and most importantly, in higher profile matches to the likes of Sting, Ric Flair, Antonio Inoki, etc.

2. Vader is one of the few men to hold major World Championships on 3 different continents.

Some people LOVE the "they were never a star outside of the US" argument. Some love the "they were never a star outside of Japan" argument. Vader was a mega-star in the U.S., in Japan, in Germany, and in Mexico.

-3-time IWGP Heavyweight Champion
-3-time WCW World Heavyweight Champion
-2-time AJPW Triple Crown World Champion
-1-time UWA World Champion (one of Mexico's biggest titles)
-3-time CWA World Champion (one of Germany's biggest titles)

In 1993, Vader's true prime, he was the PWI Wrestler of the Year, Best Heel, and his moonsault was named "Best Maneuver."

3. And who did Vader defeat for these titles?

Otto Wanz (German legend)
El Canek (Mexican legend)
Mitsuharu Misawa (Japanese legend)
Kenta Kobashi (Japanese legend)
Shinya Hashimoto
Riki Chōshū
Tatsumi Fujinami
Sting (perhaps you've heard of him?)
Ron Simmons (DAMN!)
Sting (again)

I left off two of the titles because he won them in tournaments during which he had to defeat 3 or 4 Japanese legends to win. Which he did. Twice.

4. Big Van Vader was among the toughest guys in pro wrestling history.

Want some proof? Here's some.

[YOUTUBE]izEcYwAhgJg[/YOUTUBE]​

This is the infamous match where Hansen cracks Vader in the face with his cowbell (breaking his nose) and gouges him in the eye. Vader's eye popped out of his eye socket. Vader subsequently popped his own eye BACK IN and wrestled to a time limit draw with Hansen.

5. Vader out-hardcored the hardcore legend - in his prime...

Mick Foley is the hardcore legend, right? Well in 1993-94, when Cactus Jack was arguable at his Hardcore Best, Vader owned him. Not only was Vader the man in the ring with Foley when Foley's ear was torn off (barbed wire rope match) but Vader was the man who power bombed Foley on concrete and then subsequently defeated - and brutalized - Foley in a Texas Death Match. Vader had Cactus Jack's number, despite the fights taking place right in Foley's element.

I have PLENTY more for you if you want them, but I'll save them. Big Van Vader is one of the few men to have a winning record in major matches vs Sting, by the way, beating him for the World Title TWICE.

Please get to know Big Van Vader and what a legend he truly is in professional wrestling, and remember, I am here to help

 

[Dmbfantomas]

Bret Hart said Vader was super emotional and sensitive. Jim Cornette (fuckin' mother fuckin' fucker fuck) said he cried at Summerslam against HBK during and after the match because Shawn yelled at him.

That normally kinda skews me against Vader in these matches, however...

Bully Ray has done at least one interview on Opie and Anthony (or The Opie Show with Jim Norton or whatever the hell they're calling it now) and he sounded just as whiney. Damn it.

Gotta go Vader here, his mask game was on POINT.

 

[rbv13]

Not going to over think this. Bully dips his balls in Velvet. That's good enough for my vote.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

iC once made me vote against Austin and for Vader. His kool-aid is strong.

Anyway, I think Vader is the man here. Bully was best as a heel, and if this is a heel vs heel matchup, Vader isn't going down to someone smaller than him.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Bret Hart said Vader was super emotional and sensitive. Jim Cornette (fuckin' mother fuckin' fucker fuck) said he cried at Summerslam against HBK during and after the match because Shawn yelled at him.

That normally kinda skews me against Vader in these matches, however...

Bret Hart calling ANYONE emotional and sensitive makes me kind of chuckle. I loved Bret, but never before has there been a bigger mark for oneself. Vader was probably PO'ed at Summerslam 1996 because he cared, and let's face it, he got dicked over in the WWF. Actually, BOTH Vader and Michaels looked like shit that match it was so poorly booked.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

Not POd. Cried. As in, literal tears ran down his face.

Having said that, I love Vader's gimmick and quite a few of his non-WWE matches (they just had no idea what to do with him), but Bret Hart calling him a nice guy but a total softie just kind of kills some of the image for me.

 

[Tastycles]

Bully Ray, unlike Vader, actually has charisma. That's an important factor in professional wrestling. He has won a world title in a small American promotion, just like Vader did. Unlike Vader, Americans want to see Bully Ray, so he didn't have to wrestle in Mexico and Japan. Vader will win, because IC25 will claim he's better than Jesus, but he really oughn't to.

 

[Bernkastel]

Vader is one of my favorite pro wrestlers of all time, but even then I know how overrated his was. Kane is my all time favorite but I don't go around pushing how he could defeat 99% of people in this thing because he defeated Stone Cold at the peak of his run, destroyed Taker in back to back PPV title defenses, and was never pinned by Goldberg. But I don't because the argument is stupid. Just like the argument that Vader was a big, stiff, brutal monster so he autowins is just as equally stupid.

Vader this year has it pretty easy. Bully Ray was champion in a tiny [not even nationally known] promotion and is mostly known for his tag success, while Vader [to his credit] was a main event attraction star everywhere he wrestled. I'm seriously debating putting him over Punk next round too. But afterwards he'll rightful go out to the Rock.

Voting Vader for now.