Int Region, Fourth Round, 60 Minute Iron Man Match: (3) Sting vs. (7) El Santo

Discussion in 'International Region' started by klunderbunker, Apr 10, 2013.

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Who wins this match?

  1. Sting

  2. El Santo

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    This is a fourth round match in the International Region. It is a 60 Minute Iron Man Match match held under International Rules, meaning the match is held under the standard rules of the country the match is held in. It will be held at the Arena Mexico in Mexico City, Mexico. Assume one week has passed since the second round match.

    [​IMG]

    Iron Man Match Rules: This is a sixty minute match with standard rules. The most falls in 60 minutes wins. A fall can be earned by pinfall, submission, countout or disqualification.​

    [​IMG]

    #3. Sting

    Vs.

    [​IMG]

    #7. El Santo



    Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

    Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.
     
    #1
  2. Poop Master Flex

    Poop Master Flex Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Santo wins, don't even have to think about this one. He has gotten EXTREMELY lucky considering he keeps drawing Mexico City for his matches and if I voted him over The freaking Rock last round I can't in good conscience go against him this time around.

    Sting is facing the Hulk Hogan of Mexico (and not heel Hogan either), a guy who had mad cross over appeal and made a living in an era that going an hour was common. Obviously Sting can go an hour but he just got the rotten luck of fighting one of the top stars of all time in his own backyard, it's like fighting Race in Kansas City, Hogan in New York or Rikidozan in Japan, it's just too much of an obstacle to climb.

    In a regular 1 on 1 match I may take Sting but in a 60 minute Iron Man Match where someone has to win I just don't see it happening, any angle I look at points directly to El Santo winning this match.

    El Santo wins.
     
    #2
  3. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

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    Santo has his feel good victory over last years tournament winner, the Rock. And it was a very hard fought victory with the Mexican legend just edging the Great One 50:48.

    On the other side of the tournament Sting had an easy passage past Kurt Angle (60:15).

    Sting would win this! Why? Because Santo has a way to lose strong - he's already had one tough match and he can play the weakened hero for the 60 minutes who will not give up but, ultimately come up short against the bigger stronger fresher Stinger. This is the last bout in Mexico and, while El Santo is the home country hero here, we move to some other part of the World after this and Sting is easily the bigger global star.

    Sting get's the deciding fall in the dying moments and there is a show of respect in the ring between the two after but the Stinger moves onto face either Sammartino (most likely) or Vader in the next venue.
     
    #3
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  4. Thriller Ant

    Thriller Ant Beep Bop Boop

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    You do realize that for this entire round, there's been a week since their last match? This is the second time this round you made it sound like these guys wrestled last night, which they haven't.

    As thrilled as I am finally seeing Sting go far in the tourney, I don't think I can put him over Santo in Mexico City. I'll see if anyone can change my mind, but for now, my vote goes to El Santo.
     
    #4
  5. Dirk

    Dirk Ayatollah of Coca-Cola

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    Just because of a home crowd, Santo will win. Heaven knows, Montreal and London don't exist, apparently, and as long as Santo keeps wrestling in Mexico, he'll win.
     
    #5
  6. HBsam31

    HBsam31 Totally Reeking of Awesomeness

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    I am happy to see that Sting has gone so far in this, but I have to agree with the Santo supporters. He keep getting the good draws. In a one on one standard match I would go with Sting, but in an Ironman in Mexico I have to go with Santo. He went over The Rock in Mexico so I see no reason why he wouldn't dfeat Sting as well. He has the crowd, and I think he would win with the falls tied and getting a last second fall to the eruption of the crowd for a victory.
     
    #6
  7. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

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    I think you'll find that the SECOND round was a week ago, this is the fourth round and is being fought on the same night as the third round and KB stated at the beginning of the third round that previous meetings count for fatigue, injuries from the third round on.

    And again, Sting goes over because Santo isn't going to be on home soil in the next round and Sting is the bigger star anywhere else on the planet.

    This match suits Sting better because, as I've just clarified, he is by far the fresher man. Santo can lose strong and not lose face, Sting can proceed and the bookers and the fans go away happy!

    Vote Sting!
     
    #7
  8. Nate DaMac

    Nate DaMac Fuck erbody but me

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    You're wrong.


    Yeah I think I'm voting for El Santo purely based or this horrible argument. Sting will not be any fresher than Santo coming into this match, they've had a week to recover.

    I don't even know what Santo actually looks like.
     
    #8
  9. tarp

    tarp Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Sting name was made in a 45 minute draw with the greatest of all time Ric Flair. He had several 45 to 60 minute matches. I think he wins this with a couple quick scropion drops and a couple of submisson move forgot the name like the sharpshooter.
     
    #9
  10. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

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    Read the header at the top, it states it's one week after round 2 or, if you will, the same day as round 3. Nowhere does KB state that rounds 3 and 4 are not on the same night. He has said that damage done from gimmicks on will be factors. Who would book 3 matches over 2 nights a week apart?

    Please explain; what's horrible. I've followed the logic of the tournament as described by the gut running it and went with simple storytelling and sensible booking for the final 3 rounds which, likely as not, will be somewhere in the states were Sting is by far the greater draw and Santo will not have a hope in hell.

    Slightly better than voting Santo because you dislike my argument!
     
    #10
  11. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    It's simple. As good as Sting has been, El Santo's in his homeland of Mexico, where he was a god-like figure and beat everyone that came into his path... especially when high stakes are involved.

    It'll be a tough match, and lots of falls, but El Santo takes this one and a parade in Mexico City will commence.

    OLE!
     
    #11
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  12. HBsam31

    HBsam31 Totally Reeking of Awesomeness

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    What are we basing the fatigue factor on in this tournament? Sting faced Kurt Angle and El Santo faced the Rock. Are we basing the fatigue off of margin of victory in the last round because I am pretty sure Angle would have given Sting a run for his money and the fatigue would be equal in a real life tournament. I will hold off voting until this is explained to me because I didn't have a full understanding of fatigue when I said I will vote Santo.
     
    #12
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  13. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

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    First off, I'd like to apologize to KlunderBunker for referring to him as a "gut" in my last post, I hit "t" instead of "y" and my spellcheck (logically enough) didn't highlight my error... and I was watching the TNA XDivision PPV at the same time so didn't proof read as closely as normal.

    Since I have been a member of this forum, the WZT has always used votes cast to indicate the closeness of matches. Now given that there was only 2 votes between Santo and Rock, I have taken it that it would have been a very close match. Sting garnered roughly twice the votes of Kurt, so I have taken it that Kurt bled quite early... which is something that he was/is renowned for doing.

    As such, as I have already stated, I believe that Sting goes into this the much fresher man (and I'd like to repeat that I still believe that this bout will be the same night as the third round because who books a card with two bouts one week and one bout the next? 3 bouts on the card makes logical booking sense and goes with the opening post by KB). So wrestling logic would be satisfied in Sting winning.

    Santo has went over Taz, Kane and (last years WZT winner) the Rock - he can be booked to lose to a fellow técnico like Sting without losing face and the fans should be happy enough to see the Stinger embracing the Mexican hero after a valiant effort. But make no mistake, the remaining three rounds will not be fought in Mexico so this tournament would want the bigger GLOBAL name to go through and that's Sting.
     
    #13
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  14. Papa Pillman

    Papa Pillman I've got more Ho's than Jim Duggan

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    I really like the idea that the Mexico City crowd has already gotten its El Santo feel good moment, watching him go over a massive modern American star in The Rock, and the one who would perhaps be his most direct contemporary considering the cross-over film success. That combined with the fact that the fans would have developed a healthy respect for the resilient, charismatic, face-painted American star Sting who survived a first blood war against an Olympic champion, would make for the crowd being a lot more accepting of seeing their hero do the job in his second battle, knowing that the next round will be in some other part of the world anyway.

    As for the match...
    The start of Sting's prime could be considered when he was able to go 45 minutes in a draw against Ric Flair in Greensboro, North Carolina. This should prove that a fully prime Sting could go very deep, perhaps the entire hour against Santo without losing a fall, even in Mexico City.

    Also once Sting hit his stride he more often than not moved from failing to finish Flair in 45 minutes, to beating him in less than 20. In fact Sting won the Starrcade "Iron Man" tournament. This isn't really an Iron Man match, but he did have to compete against three men in one night, and he still finished that night by beating Ric Flair in just under 15 minutes.

    I think Sting would get a fall with the Scorpion Deathlock somewhere around the mid way point and then ride out that fall lead as the crowd went nuts and rallied for El Santo to even the score until he finally failed with a last second near fall giving Sting a 1-0 victory.

    The Mexico City fans, still on a high that Santo was able to prevail against the mighty defending champion of the tournament, The Rock, would be appreciative of the effort given by both men and would pop huge for the post match show of respect that would occur between the two men as Sting advanced on to the championship rounds.
     
    #14
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  15. deem

    deem Getting Noticed By Management

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    I share these thoughts almost exactly. While on paper El Santo over The Rock was a relatively simple choice for me, and Rock>Sting in my opinion, I still think I'm siding with the Stinger here.

    It just makes no sense for El Santo to get further. He's had his moment and what a HUGE moment. The defining one in the history of Mexico. El Santo is booked as a demi-god super hero, but there's no need to disregard all the logical booking of this tournament. He's made it further than anyone that wrestled predominantly outside of North America (other than Vader?).

    Hey, if El Santo gets through it's fresh and interesting, but Sting's shown he's more than capable of going 60m and I think this would be too much.
     
    #15
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  16. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
    E-Fed Mod

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    So apparently Santo beats The Rock in Mexico, but he can't beat Sting in Mexico, who was less of a draw than the Rock... right :rolleyes:.

    I feel Sting is overrated quite highly on this site. Was he a top draw? Sure, but he wasn't the quality of draw, nor did he have the longevity, as some others - especially Santo; who was considered the biggest star in the history of his country. Being called the best in a country for over 4 decades isn't something that can be simply downplayed to "well, he didn't work in the United States so he's not that great." Sorry, that's a really piss poor argument. In a neutral setting with both men in their primes, Santo would be drawing far more people to this hypothetical match than Sting would. And he'd be booked to go over... because he was the bigger star.

    This match should be a no brainer; even more so than the last one. Santo goes through.
     
    #16
  17. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

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    Hold on, there is no way in hell that there is any neutral setting were Santo is bigger than Sting. Sting was a prominent star in wrestling when it was drawing in it's biggest viewing figures of the modern era and even if you were a WWF guy, you knew who the biggest stars were in the rival company. Santo is like Big Daddy - move him out of his home country and nobody knows him.
     
    #17
  18. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    He's a prominent star in AMERICA... not in Mexico. El Santo's status in Mexico's not matched by anyone's status in any country. The man's had a state funeral, been in dozens of films, and was the most popular athlete in Mexico. Mind you, Hogan was popular, but not as big as Michael Jordan, Joe Montana, etc. El Santo WAS the biggest athlete in Mexico.

    And as good as Sting was and is and as big of a fan as I am of Sting, there's no realistic way Sting can beat El Santo in this setting.

    Factor this in, too - Elevation. It's almost TWO MILES above sea level in Mexico City and Sting's got to last 60 minutes with a man who made this place home.

    There's no advantage for Stinger in this matchup...which is why I voted for El Santo.
     
    #18
  19. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

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    And I think you missed the point, Ech said Santo would be the bigger star in a neutral setting!

    Why? Santo lost in Mexico (otherwise he wouldn't have had multiple reigns).

    Seeing as Vader won a World Title against Canek in this area, I don't think it'll phase Sting that much. Asides from that, professional athletes go to areas like this early to acclimatize - that's why the Mexican soccer team loses at home.

    The next round will not be in Mexico, what history does Santo have anywhere else (considering he thought he could get across the American border with his mask on in the 1970s, I'm guessing very little)? Sting is known globally - he's the bigger name. He's who the organizers would want in the next round. Santo has had his big win in front of his fellow countrymen, knocking out last years WZT winner, the Rock. You know who the last man was to knock the Rock out of the WZT? Sting!
     
    #19
  20. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    You know what a neutral setting is right? It's where the fan bases of both superstars would have access to the hypothetical match no matter where it takes place. You aren't seriously suggesting that Sting in his prime had a larger fanbase than Santo in his? If Sting were as big of a star as Austin or Hogan, you'd have a serious argument, but he wasn't. As both a quality draw, and as a major crossover star within the media Sting falls short of Santo. Take Sting out of the States, and he wouldn't draw anywhere close to what he would in WCW - Santo is known to American audiences not only through the successes of lucha libre and through his movies.

    And since the gimmick match doesn't favor either man, I see no real reason why Santo would lose.
     
    #20
  21. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

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    Neutral would have be somewhere like Japan, England or Canada - all countries that Sting has performed in and Santo hasn't... and do you really think the final night will be outside the US?

    American wrestling is the most followed in the world so big names in US wrestling are well known around the world. Mexican wrestling is the third largest world market (after America and Japan) and hardly followed outside of it's home market. This is why it created such interest when Paul Heyman brought it to the States and WCW introduced Lucha to the masses and do you know who was a massive WCW star?

    As for Santo's films... unless Quentin Tarantino is doing head booker duties, I really don't think that'll over impact on Santo's recognition outside of his home country.
     
    #21
  22. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    Wrong. A neutral setting is a place that doesn't give either man a home field advantage. Since both Sting and Santo were faces in their primes, a neutral setting would be a place where both could draw their fanbases without biased. Santo had a much larger fanbase than Sting, and would draw far more fans to see the match. Because of this why should Sting be booked to win again?

    Yeah... in 2013. In 1995 companies like WWE and WCW weren't global phenomenons. If a fan of New Japan knew what WCW was it's because of the fact that superstars like Sting toured internationally - and Sting lost quite often to bigger stars in Japan BTW. His 5 minute squash against Inoki comes to mind.

    You forget that lucha libre already had a massive following in Japan before it became popular in the States right? And I recall Mil Mascaras being one of those early pioneers giving guys like Heyman some success in the States to see.

    And yet 4 of Santo's films were dubbed into English, and shown in US theaters after receiving acclaim. As a crossover star he was known internationally. As a wrestler he was popular enough to sustain lucha libre in the 50's and 60's without having to rely on the help of international stars like Lou Thesz. During that time period the United States was the undisputed hotbed of pro wrestling.

    A couple of things here...

    1.) Santo's prime as a babyface came during the 50's and 60's. By the 70's he was past his prime and yet his longevity as a draw still continued to his death. The only wrestling star like that in the States will likely be Hogan.

    2.) Sting ins't as big of an international name as some others, when WCW hosted there joint shows internationally in the mid 90's Sting wasn't even billed at the top of the card.

    3.) Any promoter would want the more popular star to advance because he'd make them the most money. In a neutral setting where both Santo and Sting had access to their fans who would draw more interest? Santo would. So a promoter would make more money booking Santo to win this match because in the next he could benefit not only from Santo's massive appeal as a top wrestling star, but also his appeal as a massive crossover star.

    Therefore Santo should win here.
     
    #22
  23. Da Solo

    Da Solo Getting Noticed By Management

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    1. I don't see why the Mexico City advantage argument would work against Rock but not Sting. There's no real difference. Actually if you want to nitpick, Rock is an even bigger star in the US than Sting, so by default it's Santo's advantage here.

    2. The Ironman stip doesn't hurt either man. Sting has the experience, and Santo, though he isn't known for the stip, should have no legit problems. Plus, Sting won't pin/submit Santo multiple times in Mexico City and win. Santo again.

    3. Has Sting ever wrestled a lucha star anywhere near Santo's legacy? I wasn't a major WCW follower nor did I see Santo in his prime so this may be an irrelevant argument, but I cannot for the life of me remember Sting doing anything significant against someone wrestling such a different style from him. Logically, it would be easier for a lucha star to adapt to a more balanced opponent as opposed to vice versa, so Santo takes the match.
     
    #23
  24. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    What he means is who would draw more overall fans and Santo had more fans than Sting. Sting had sporadic fans across the US, but Santo was loved ALL OVER MEXICO. He was the biggest athlete in Mexico. And would have a bigger following.



    In a winner take all scenario, Santo didn't lose. And the folks that beat Santo were much bigger than Sting and were more acclimated to Santo's wrestling style.


    Mexico's soccer team has a record of 23-1-1 against the United States in Mexico, and that draw and win came in the last year. And that's with lots of preparation. Mexico City's a hostile place, especially for an American.


    You know who has a lot of Mexican-American's? USA! I'm sure many folks around North America are aware of Santo. It'd be foolish to say otherwise. And in all honesty, the bigger draw throughout their careers is Santo by a huge margin.

    I'm a huge Sting fan, but I'm also realistic and I know Santo doesn't do the job to Sting in Mexico.
     
    #24
  25. BobbyRoode444

    BobbyRoode444 WCW Hardcore Champ (the trophy)

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    El Santo just took out the Rock. He remains in Mexico City for his next match, and the stipulation favors neither El Santo or Sting...El Santo wins
     
    #25

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