In What Way Has CM Punk's Pipebomb Promo Hurt Wrestling?

Discussion in 'General Wrestling Discussion' started by Wildcat66, Jun 5, 2017.

  1. Wildcat66

    Wildcat66 DELETE!

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    Now before you pelt me with bricks, I will state for the record that Punk's pipebomb he cut back in '11 did a hell of a lot of good for the business. It helped introduce the indy scene to a bigger audience, paved the way for smaller wrestlers to get a chance to be taken seriously in WWE, and ultimately changed the way people look at wrestling in general.

    However; I recently came across this one video from a wrestling 'mark' that I've been subscribed to for a while now claiming that the inverse actually happened with the pipebomb.

    Have a Look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6Ly0un3xtA

    Now personally, I thought the video; while it had some merit behind it wasn't really executed that well and very overdramatic even by wrestling geek's standards.

    But it did get me thinking...in many ways, we've talked about how C.M Punk's pipebomb helped wrestling. But in what ways has his pipebomb hurt it?
     
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  2. JoeMallard

    JoeMallard Getting Noticed By Management

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    This YouTube guys sounds like a fucking moron. "CM Punk crossed the boundaries of reality and kayfabe." Um did that idiot not see the curtain call? I bet he's like those moronic Smarkbuster idiots.
     
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  3. Jonyboyuk2

    Jonyboyuk2 Getting Noticed By Management

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    Nothing. It created a mega star in Punk and was a very well worked promo. It did everything it was designed to do. The only negative thing about this is Punk being forced to work with Nash - who was 51 at the time and had peaked some 17 years prior to this.

    His feud with HHH did not really go anywhere either but at least it was not boring in the ring.

    As for the general accusations that it harmed WWE too - it never did. This must have been from someone who never watched WWE during the Attitude Era.
     
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  4. Wildcat66

    Wildcat66 DELETE!

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    He did say he was a fan of the Smarkbusters.

    Really, smarks and marks are one of the same, except that smarks have 'dirt sheet connections' and claim to know everything. Marks are just that, people who don't exactly know how the wrestling industry works and when it works in their favor, they don't know what to do with it.
     
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  5. JoeMallard

    JoeMallard Getting Noticed By Management

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    That totally explains why the guy sounds like a total moron and has no ground to stand on.
     
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  6. Messiah

    Messiah WWE Champion

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    It was just a promo.. It didn't help or hurt wrestling.. I don't even remember what was said in the promo it meant so little at the time.. Fans like to talk about it because they're stupid, but it was just a promo complaining about being misused.. Like it or not, it is what it is.
     
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  7. Jeff Deliverer of Mail

    Jeff Deliverer of Mail Join WZCW because writing is hip
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    It hurts wrestling because C.M Punk will NEVER go away for Punkamaniacs. C.M Punk was way overrated and botched alot during his matches. The one thing Punk will be remembered for is his "Pipe Bomb" promo and his long boring title run.
     
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  8. OYDK

    OYDK King Of The Ring

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    It didn't hurt or help the WWE in the long-term. It was basically just a promo that got a lot of people talking for a short time.

    It also almost single-handedly led to the creation one of the most interesting characters to come along in like, forever. So there was that.
     
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  9. Kodo Sawaki

    Kodo Sawaki Championship Contender

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    Yes they did a bit. Not that much though. Though main story was that they got main stream attention with that promo. Which was fine by WWE standards. His push was mishandled later on with Del Rio and HHH and Nash stuff but he was really fine until that and really looked like mega star.
     
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  10. The Life Of Pablo Ren

    The Life Of Pablo Ren I know my name/avi/sig don't match.

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    Every good promo now is called a pipebomb so yeah that's kind of annoying.

    You could make the argument that the promo and Punk's subsequent rise is a pretty big contributing factor to the crowds being more vocal about who they like and who they don't like or just why they're more vocal in general. And if you don't like that then yeah sure I guess he did hurt wrestling that way but I don't mind it. It sure beats the WWE crowds of 2008-2011 which were some of the deadest crowds I've ever heard.
     
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  11. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    The bigger issue is whether or not a jack-off on Youtube should be given this small amount of recognition.

    I've seen that type of attitude in many ugly forms. The attitude being: The best way to get attention in the noisy swamp that is social media is to take a popular idea and attempt to imply that the majority has been duped by their own stupidity into believing a false conclusion. Or as that fucking moron in the Youtube video would likely state: No women will touch me, so I'll go on the record as often as possible to try to drag every other human being into my world of misery.

    The thing is; implying that the pipe-bomb had a significant negative or positive effect on the current state of pro-wrestling is giving way too much credit to the occurrence. It was fun, interesting, and further endeared us to the art form. I'd say that it had an effect on our psyches for about two months at the most, depending on the level of which someone liked CM Punk at the time. To suggest that the entirety of pro-wrestling went through a paradigm shift because of it or was at the mercy of its outcome is fucking stupid.
     
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  12. Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.

    Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. Kamehamehaaaaa!!

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    Hurt wrestling huh?

    How about not at all? Seriously. I can't think how wrestling got hurt. The only point is that the line between kayfabe and legit got crossed, big time. But, that wasn't the first time. Curtain call, Montreal Screwjob, HBK losing his smile, Undertaker's pipebomb in 1999, Rock calling out Austin in 2002, the whole Invasion angle. Hell the whole Attitude Era had no line between fake and real. It was a very blur line.

    People say that anyone would have gotten over with that kind of promo and that Punk "cheated". Wrong. Punk was the only one who could execute something like that, due to his insane mic skills and on top of that, nobody else would have maintained their momentum for so long, as Punk did, even with so crappy booking at the beginning. CM Punk put over The Rock, Cena and Triple H, got stack in opening matches and mid segments, and still was the most over guy on RAW.
     
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  13. thebarber

    thebarber Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    this could win dumbest thread of the year. The pipebomb in 2011 was awesome, fresh and something the satle as fuck product needed. Sent Punk into a 14 month title run after doing the favour to HHH of course but it was awesome at the time. In no way shape or form did it hurt wrestling.
     
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  14. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    When it was all said and done, if there was anyone or anything that was hurt by Punk's Pipe Bomb promo, I think it was, ironically, Punk and his legacy.

    The promo was something that generated a ton of buzz because it was a mix of kayfabe and reality to such a degree that it even had long time insiders were initially unsure if it was a shoot or not. What the promo did for a number of years was essentially cement Punk's status as a rebel, someone who railed against the corporate machine and that especially appealed to numerous smart fans as Punk was saying exactly what many of them thought and felt.

    However, in the 3.5 years since Punk walked out of WWE and wrestling in and of itself, we've learned things, read about various issues that've tarnished the overall legacy of Punk and his seemingly game changing promo. Punk always claimed to be an agent of change, someone who stood up for the boys & girls in the locker room, someone who spoke out against part timers being brought in and taking prime spots, etc. but it wasn't really the case. The change Punk advocated wasn't some alteration in policy, it was him wanting to have Cena's spot and "John Cena's push." Over the years, it's been alleged through numerous reports that while Punk wanted a Cena type push, he ultimately sabotaged himself by being extremely combative, difficult to work with, was never satisfied with pretty much anything and not really having Cena's work ethic.

    As for his stance on the use of part timers as special attractions, he pretty much shit all over that and revealed himself to be a hypocrite. Punk railed against WWE bringing in part timers who weren't busting their asses year round and were brought in mainly due to the value of their name and past glories, yet he himself was perfectly fine with being added to the UFC 203 in September of last year despite the complete lack of MMA experience. After all, there are tons of MMA fighters who've worked for years, busted their asses and can't get the UFC to give them the time of day, yet Punk had no qualms about taking someone else's spot.

    So yeah, I don't think the Pipe Bomb promo hurt or even helped wrestling because Punk ultimately showed his true colors. He's every bit as selfish as he accused Cena, Triple H and others of being. He really wasn't some rebel fighting the good fight against the evil corporation, he was ultimately revealed as just another disgruntled wrestler who felt like everything should go the way he wanted it to.
     
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  15. ヒュー G. レックション

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    First of all, fuck the person who deleted my post in this thread. It contributed to the discussion and you should be grateful that I continue post in this dead forum.

    One thing that bothers me is people saying Punk's pipebomb was "controversial". How? Who disliked that moment? Nobody.
     
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  16. Dolph Ziggler's Gimmick

    Dolph Ziggler's Gimmick Dark Match Winner

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    Even Jim fucking Cornette loved the pipebomb if I remember correctly, and he still comes across as a guy who slaps people around for "exposing the business."

    Punk's promo was genius. Social media had just taken over, everyone was in on he business, so to portray someone "going off script" without literally spelling it out for the audience was not only groundbreaking for the product, but it was fresh and quality content. Worked-shoot style promos had been seen before it and since, but the implication of "this is real, it's not the scripted stuff you're used to" from the actual product had never been so evident.

    I can't think of one way the promo hurt the business.
     
    #16
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  17. wrestlingmasters55

    wrestlingmasters55 Moderator
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    Let's face it, it didn't hurt wrestling at all because this wasn't a shoot. The thing was plan from the start. The only thing that was different from a regular promo is that Punk was given bullet points instead of a full script. It was done in a old school type of way and it worked because you had the right guy to pull it off.

    The thing is, this is the type of promos that they should be teaching in NXT instead of having them learn how to memorize a script. You need to be able to think on your feet when you cut a promo and get yourself and the program you're in over with the promo. If you just recite a script like a robot without putting any of yourself in it, it's going to be harder to get over. The pipe bomb was the perfect example of a lost art in wrestling which is the bullet point promo. It got across what it needed to get across and made a star out of CM Punk.
     
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  18. johnbragg

    johnbragg Championship Contender

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    One thing that's underappreciated about Punk's "pipebomb" promo. It "exposed the business", but it stayed within the boundaries of wrestling being real within the WWE universe.

    Every single word is something that a UFC fighter could say about Dana White, or a boxer could say about Oscar De La Hoya or Don King.

    Every word is something that Kirk Cousins could have said when he kept getting pushed aside because Robert Griffin III was the golden boy.

    "I hate this idea that you’re the best. Because you’re not. I’m the best. I’m the best in the world."

    Half the backup QBs in the NFL believe this in their hearts.

    There’s one thing you’re better at than I am and that’s kissing Vince McMahon’s ass.

    You’re as good as kissing Vince McMahon’s ass as Hulk Hogan was. I don’t know if you’re as good as Dwayne though. He’s a pretty good ass kisser. Always was and still is.


    I could imagine seeing that on SportsCenter coming from a pissed-off Heisman Trophy runner up.

    I’ve grabbed so many of Vincent K. McMahon’s brass rings that it’s finally dawned on me that they're just that, they’re completely imaginary. The only thing that’s real is me and the fact that day in and day out, for almost six years, I have proved to everybody in the world that I am the best on this microphone, in that ring, even in commentary! Nobody can touch me!

    And yet no matter how many times I prove it, I’m not on your lovely little collector cups. I’m not on the cover of the program. I’m barely promoted. I don't get to be in movies. I’m certainly not on any crappy show on the USA Network. I’m not on the poster of WrestleMania. I’m not on the signature that’s produced at the start of the show. I’m not on Conan O’Brian. I’m not on Jimmy Fallon. But the fact of the matter is, I should be.


    All stuff Kirk Cousins could have said about his tenure on the Washington REdskins. (For non-NFL fans, Cousins was a 4th round pick behind Robert Griffin III, who was drafted #2 overall after the REdskins traded 3 or 4 first- and second-round picks to get the #2 pick. Griffin got the red-carpet treatment, was treated as a franchise cornerstone. Cousins was treated as a fourth-round afterthought who was lucky to be in the NFL. Griffin ended up losing his job to Cousins, a year or two after he should have. Griffin is out of the NFL now, Cousins is starting and is going to get a $100M contract after this season.)

    Oh hey, let me get something straight. Those of you who are cheering me right now, you are just as big a part of me leaving as anything else. Because you’re the ones who are sipping on those collector cups right now. You’re the ones that buy those programs that my face isn’t on the cover of. And then at five in the morning at the airport, you try to shove it in my face and get an autograph and try to sell it on eBay because you’re too lazy to go get a real job.

    Also something a real-sports athlete could say.

    Yes, he broke WWE's ironclad and not-so-ironclad rules--don't mention competing promotions, don't use real names. He said he was "breaking the fourth wall." But he was pretty careful not to break the fourth wall in a way that undermined what happens in the ring.
     
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  19. JoeMallard

    JoeMallard Getting Noticed By Management

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    NXT does teach them using bullet points, HHH wouldn't have it any other way.
     
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  20. Mr.Maikeru_Sawyer

    Mr.Maikeru_Sawyer Occasional Pre-Show

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    Yes the promo was planned from the start. The start being Vince handing Phil a live mic and letting him say whatever was on his mind(also called a worked shoot and Samoa Joe actually had one of his own directed at Scott Hall during Turning Point 07).
    Yes he kept as close to a real promo as possible but you can tell that he was truly speaking his mind. Another way you can tell he went beyond the scope talked about with Vince was when the mic was killed.
     
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  21. Carpathian Florist

    Carpathian Florist Pre-Show Stalwart

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    The mic wasn't killed... it was shut off as part of the scripted promo, much like WWE and not the TV network used to blur certain shirts to make it seem more controversial. They shut off the mic at a predetermined point in the scripted promo to make it seem as if he'd finally gone too far.
    You can bet everything was drafted and pre-approved long before he made his entrance
     
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  22. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    Whew, that dude sure does love to ramble.

    So... when he says "wrestling" he apparently means kayfabe 90% of the time, which is odd considering he would often add kayfabe as supplement to his point right after. I think he started getting brain tied near the middle when he was accusing Punk of demonizing the real life individuals that the actors are portraying. Actors portraying their real life counterparts is some fifth dimension shit that I don't think that the WWE has ever tried before.

    I watched the entire vid and honestly don't know how he validates the conclusion that CM Punk killed wrestling with the pipe bomb. I honestly can't think of anything bad that happened as a direct result of the pipebomb. Arrogant smarks that use it as a crutch for when they're struggling to pinch off a YouTube monologue (like the dork-ass in the vid) are an annoyance, sure. Wrestling isn't affected in any way by them.
     
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  23. FlashMarston

    FlashMarston Dark Match Jobber

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    I don't think it hurt anything. If anything it opened up the wrestling world. I was surprised to see him so high in the all time Raw moments this month. Man I wish Punk was back in the WWE. They could even give him his own shoot show on the network.
     
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  24. UncleSav4ge

    UncleSav4ge Dark Match Jobber

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    That promo was one of the best in my opinion and he just said what most of us wanted to say anyway. So I don't think it hurt the business at all :)
     
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