I think it's safe to show what actually happened now

Discussion in 'Old School Wrestling' started by HeenanGorilla, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. HeenanGorilla

    HeenanGorilla Championship Contender

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    Being a fan of the WWF in the mid 80s through the early 90s, I watch a lot of old PPVs on the Network. While I am thrilled to have access to all of this footage, there are small differences that lessen the viewing experience a bit. I understand the reason for replacing certain entrance themes with filler music or different themes, but I wish the replays were more authentic. Still, I get it and I can sit through an edited entrance song and Finkel introduction a few times per show. But another kind of revision exists to this day and I think it's ridiculous.

    A well-known example of WWE trying to change history is the audible reaction to Sid eliminating Hogan during the '92 Rumble. The live crowd cheered Hogan's elimination and also booed after the match when Hogan looked to them for support in his stand off with Sid. WWE changed this on DVDs and the Network to make it sound like the crowd was booing Sid and cheering for Hogan. I can understand--though not agree with--their motivation for protecting their hero and their plans at that time. But the edited version still exists today.

    Why?

    How insecure is it to feel the need to continue to put out this misinformation? I don't think Hulk merchandise sales are going to take a hit if today's viewers learn the truth about his waning popularity in 1992. This morning, I had WrestleMania 7 on in the background and heard canned cheers for the Undertaker during his entrance. This did not happen. In fact, I remember clearly how when the gong hit at WMVIII, how odd it sounded that it was followed by cheers because Taker had actually just turned face.
    A 1991 Undertaker entrance needs editing?

    What is the harm in showing 20- and 30-year-old videos the way they actually were?
     
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  2. shooter_mcgavin

    shooter_mcgavin Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Yeah I agree a lot of these edits takes you away from the moment especially if you have some fond memories when you saw the event for the first time.

    Some examples that bothered me are as follows:
    - Wrestlemania XIX - The background music was changed (I am guessing since it was the same as WMX8 they felt like it needed to be changes as well as the background music of the Booker T / Triple H video package)
    - Wrestlemania XIV - they changes the voice over and background song completely
    - Survivor Series 1998 - They seem to be using the audio in which no one is allowed to say "WWF" I think

    Of course those are some examples but the biggest problem is when you can tell the audio doesn't match the audio of the event.

    If I recall future replays and video right after this event had he canned cheers for Hogan. I wouldn't be surprised if WWE lost the original audio of the event.
     
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  3. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    It's just part of Vince's personality. As far as he's concerned, everything and anything regarding WWE is his to do with as he pleases no matter how ridiculous others may find it. Do you remember the storylines of Vince being the "Higher Power" that the Undertaker and the Ministry of Darkness served and the one where he proclaimed himself "God?" When it comes to WWE, I genuinely believe that's how he views himself when it's all said and done. If he doesn't like how something goes down after it's happened, even if it's something that's many years old, he'll change it if he can in order to better reflect whatever irrational vision he has. He does it from everything to entrance music, 20 year old footage on the WWE Network to title lineage and just about everything else in-between. Whether we think it makes sense or not is irrelevant. Why? Because he's Vince McMahon and he is the master of his own universe.
     
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  4. WWEWrestleFest

    WWEWrestleFest Pre-Show Stalwart

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    I think it's just more likely they no longer have the original masters. A lot of the "WWFs" are edited out even though they legally can say "WWF" again. I think they just don't have the original audio anymore.
     
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  5. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

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    Audio has long been a bone of contention... For example Wrestlemania 1 with Born In the USA for Windham and Rotunda, Another One Bites The Dust for JYD and Eye of the Tiger for Hogan and T. All you would remember is the edited versions, likewise for years Rick Rude's music was changed on WWE DVD's and games and has only recently seemed to resurface back to the original sax based tune.

    Vince doesn't like to pay for music, and he figures its' something people mainly forget... sadly, it fundamentally alters the experience you remember. Putting Bossman's later, heel theme instead of Hard Time is cheaper... but it ruins the moment.

    As for editing pops, they always did this and always will. They need the narrative to go their way and to an extent, altering it later can never benefit them... Is there any real benefit in now showing Sid as the face and Hogan the heel? No, cos Sid isn't in a marketable state and Hogan is more likely to return some day...

    In truth it's one of the annoyances of creators owning their work... George Lucas felt he was in the right to "dick about" with Star Wars, adding comedy where there was none... to this day I can't get over changing the songs in Return of The Jedi or adding that sound effect where the trooper hits his head in A New Hope... it's not what I grew up loving... it should have been left.
     
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  6. HeenanGorilla

    HeenanGorilla Championship Contender

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    But this is my point. The amount of time that has passed is the reason there is no benefit to portray fiction. I agree with most of what you said (in fact, I was watching the original Mania last night and seeing JYD come out to Grab Them Cakes was the reason I started this thread), but your point above is ridiculous. You think that if Hogan came back, the audio of the '92 Rumble will come into a marketing conversation? Come on, man.

    2019 meeting:
    "Ok, good news/bad news, everybody. The good news is we are bringing back the Hulkster. The bad news is we have him being booed in the '92 Rumble file."

    If both options are there, simply go with what actually happened. Like I said, though I don't agree with it or like it, I understand why they did it then. But, to keep up the farce now is beyond needless. If they don't have the original audio, ok--though this is WWE, they have it, please--but if it is a conscious choice to try to still alter history, I find it quite silly.
     
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  7. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    The one that annoys me the most is how Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat's music was changed at WM3.

    I watched it at the time, and he had the song "Sirius" by the Allan Parsons Project (I didn't know that this what it was called at the time). All I know was I got pumped as my favourite wrestler was set to fight my brother's fave, Randy "Macho Man" Savage, and it worked when Steamboat was announced as new IC Champion.

    Now, obviously they don't use it because of music rights. However, they also don't replace it with his WCW theme (which they do use in the video games), which I don't understand, since WWE own WCW now, and so can use the theme. Instead, they use some generic music, which takes away from things.
     
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  8. HeenanGorilla

    HeenanGorilla Championship Contender

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    The music thing bugs me too, but I understand the reason--even though it absolutely takes away from the viewing experience. The crowd reaction changes though, that isn't a money-saving measure--it's seemingly just nonsense. That is why I mentioned that part of it. But, yes, the real music would be phenomenal. Steamboat, Demolition, JYD, Boss Man, Rhodes...a lot of good tunes.
     
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  9. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    If I remembered correctly and i haven't watch it in a while, but they did that with the VHS version of the Rumble 92 as well since i remembered watching this event back when i was a kid and you that fans booeing Sid when hogan got eliminated and cheered for him when he wanted to get his revenge on sid. So this change was done way back when the first copy of the event came out on VHS and they just didn'T bother to make to change it back on the other versions.

    As far as their WWE archived show, i think most of the change as far as fan reactions are concern, they did them way back when they release the events on VHS for the most part and never really bothered to change it back, either because they lost the original tape or just we're do lazy to change them back. In the end, these thing don't really bothers me because when they first aired on PPV, i couldn'T watch them because we didn'T get PPV we're i lived, so i watch the altered version on VHS. Yet i get your point that maybe they should try to put the original audio back to those events, it would help those like me that didn't see the original PPV to get what the atmosphere of the event truly was instead of what we actually saw.
     
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  10. FlairFan2003

    FlairFan2003 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    They (WWE) may well not have the original audio from the PPV

    I never saw VHS or other after the fact versions of the 92 Rumble, but I watched the PPV when it first aired.

    There was a mixed reaction to Sid eliminating Hogan initially. When Hogan began arguing with Sid (eventually contributing to his elimination) the crowd reaction turned very negative to Hogan. My friends & I could not believe Hogan was being booed, but we were also confounded on the finish (why would Hogan cost Sid the match, was Hogan trying to congratulate Sid & cheer him on but it just went wrong, was Hogan, wrestling's greatest hero, actually turning heel???).

    We were definately confused, but it was clear watching the PPV that the live crowd was booing Hogan's post elimination behavior.

    The crowd also gave a surprisingly large pop when Flair won despite portraying a mega heel at the time, but that didnt surprise me as much as Hogan getting booed since Flair was always a "cool heel" who got a lot of cheers in the 80s NWA. The real confusing part was trying to figure out what Hogan was doing.

    Given the changes in technology today vs 25 years ago, I can easily see how if WWE altered the crowd reaction noise for future video reissues to reinforce the storyline i
    of Sid's eventual heel turn they truly may not have an "original copy" anymore.

    Take it from me, the idea that Hogan's post match behavior was booed (especially his continued bickering with Sid after Flair won) is no urban myth, I watched it & remember it well. Fact is, growing up in the 80s there were two things I thought I would never see in wrestling, Hogan get booed and Vince crown Flair as his World Champion, they both happened that night so I remember it quite well.
     
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  11. FlairFan2003

    FlairFan2003 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Hogan's popularity wasnt declining as much as WWE screwed up, Hogan was still by far their most popular star, but even that level of popularity isnt enough to get clear heel actions perpetrated against a clear face cheered & accepted by the audience. Hogan's behavior was far out of character for a clear hero, given that the premise of The Rumble Match was "every man for himself", especially when Hogan beat up both Piper & Savage during this match, two storyline allies of his at the time (and likewise the heel Flair battled with fellow heels Jake Roberts, Meng, HBK, and his tag team partner The Undertaker at various times in the match).

    In effect, any well established fan favorite would have been booed in the same circumstance, it was bad scripting on WWE's part, a poorly constructed attempt to facilitate a Sid heel turn. In the confines of a Rumble match, Sid did nothing wrong and in fact from a match logic point it made perfect sense (Hogan was 6ft 8, 280lbs, and had been in the ring less than 15min, Flair was 6ft 2, 245lbs and had been in the ring for an hour, who wouldnt in that situation take the chance to eliminate Hogan setting up a one on one with Flair!!). If WWE truly wanted a Sid heel turn as tbe secondary story coming out of The Rumble, they should have done the angle in reverse (Sid & Flair battling on the ropes, Hogan dumps Sid, Sid angrily argues with & distracts Hogan, a distracted Hogan gets dumped by Flair for the win).

    Sid would have been booed out of the building. Hindsight is 20/20 though.
     
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  12. HBKperfect23

    HBKperfect23 Championship Contender

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    I also remember Vince making Hennan and Monsoon redo the commentary to fit the Hogan getting screwed narrative.

    I can remember the original having Monsoon saying "What a display of guts by that guy right there" while flair laid in the ring victorious.

    This is the best rumble ever in my opinion and am so glad it went the way it did. Looking back, they are lucky that New York crowd didn't turn Flair face. Why would they, from a kayfabe standpoint, have the guy you want boo'd overcome that kind of adversity.

    I have read that there was rumor at the time Flair would enter 30, not touch anyone, have a double elimination, and Flair would walk out as champion. Obviously that would ruin one of the best performances in the history of wrestling, but it would keep the crowd reactions where they wanted them leading into WM8.

    I'm glad it played out like it did but I don't fully understand how they didn't realize a smart NY crowd could turn on Hogan and cheer Flair after the Sid elimination.

    As far as not showing the original video and commentary, I would imagine no one even thought about looking for the video or even remembered they changed it to begin with.
     
    #12
  13. HeenanGorilla

    HeenanGorilla Championship Contender

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    What are you talking about?

    I mentioned the audio being edited and you go on and on about the writing, Hogan’s height, Flair’s weight, what WWE should have done storyline-wise...what does any of that have to do with the topic at hand?
     
    #13
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