How being looked at as the third Brand is hurting NXT

Discussion in 'WWE NXT' started by Psykohurricane55, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    Everyday since NXT as become what it is today, all i heard or read about when somebody gets called up to the main roster is how they screwed up the character or how they didn't push the guy the same way they did in NXT. How this guy was a main event star in NXT and he's been booked to look like any other guys on the main roster. That's been happening for years now and normally i just respond that NXT doesn't attract the same type of crowds as the main roster does or that not everybody is watch NXT, so when you just continue the same push that you did with a character on NXT, it's not going to translate as well as you think.

    These responds pretty much get me heat because NXT fans don't want to blame Vince or the creative staff for the failures of the NXT guys. Even podcasters and dirt sheet writers don't want to see that the main rosters crowds and NXT crowds are 2 totally different type of crowd. But that's not the point of this thread.

    The point is that NXT is supposed to be a developmental territory. It'S technically FCW but with better production and facilities and a better TV show seen worldwide. But does the fact that the show is seen worldwide hurt the performers. Personally i feel like it does mostly because since they have to tape of show that's seen worldwide, they have to signs bigger name stars that fans that will attract fans that like watching other style of wrestling like ROH or New Japan, so i takes away from the others guys that don'T have as much experience and could get it by being on the show.

    The other problem is with the big indy names stars on NXT is that it create a expectation from the NXT fans when thoses guys get called up on the main roster. They think that since they we're big stars in NXT, they will automatically get the rocket attach to their back on the main roster because of how much work they put in on the indy's before coming to WWE. To quote Jerry Lawler, ''It doesn't matter what you did outside WWE'', and he's right. When you look at the history of WWF/E, a lot of the big star had to prove they could get over before getting the ball and running with it. So why would this be any different in 2017?

    When WWE was running OVW, FCW or any of the other developmental territories, did we cares as much about how those guys would get push when called up? no because we couldn'T see them on TV or on the network every week. They didn'T have special event before the big four ppv. So they could pretty much learn how to work WWE style and then they when they got the call to be on the main roster, they felt fresh and we would get invested a lot more into thoses guy. Now, we don't have that anymore because they're on NXT every week and we see them perform on a weekly bases so we think of them as been WWE superstars right off the bat instead of seeing them as developmental guys that are learning how to work the WWE style so when they bring them up. They're not Fresh anymore to a portion of the fans and we bitch about how they screw up their push because we followed them Through their journey.

    So that's why i fell that NXT having to much exposure is hurting the talent more then helping them. If they we're a local developmental territory with a local show, when a big name talent like Shinsuke Nakamura or bobby roode would get called up, they would fell fresh because we didn'T see them on NXT before hand and weren't expose to their matches on the show.
     
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  2. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    The fundamental differences in NXT and the main roster revolves mainly around the two different creative visions. If/when Triple H is the one who makes THE final creative decisions, I find it extremely difficult to believe that his WWE will be Vince's WWE in many respects; for instance, if you look at NXT, it's obvious that Triple H and the writers pay more attention to who the fans are invested in, they pay more attention to crowd reactions, they pay more attention to continuity details and general logic than what we frequently see on the main roster. I'm not saying that Triple H won't or doesn't already make mistakes sometimes, that he'll push someone that maybe isn't ready or have the ability, etc. because wrong decisions get made by everyone sometimes; however, I don't see Triple H pushing wrestlers that fans have made no bones about not really being all that into just because he personally wants it to happen. Trips has an ego, but it doesn't remotely compare with Vince because I can genuinely believe that there's a real chance Vince McMahon feels that he knows who fans should or shouldn't invest in that the fans themselves. In Triple H's WWE, Jinder Mahal would not have been WWE Champion, he would not have gone from career jobber to WWE Champion within the span of 5 weeks.

    Wrestlers in NXT also have more creative input and freedom than on the main roster, which is a massive deal and goes hand in hand with Trips and Vince being two guys who have different visions. Triple H has a much more organic approach to things, he doesn't want wrestlers reading their lines from scripts, he doesn't want wrestlers to be worried about whether or not they'll have some sort of punishment if they come to him with ideas or concerns about something or voicing disagreement. Vince, on the other hand, wants everyone walking on eggshells around him, he wants as much control over the goings on inside the ring and outside of it, even when it comes to personal lives, as he's legally able to get away with and very, very few wrestlers have the sort of stroke to confidently talk to/with Vince in the way they do with Triple H without fear of some sort of reprisal if they say something that he doesn't like, agree with or is just in a weird mood. I'm not saying that Vince is some demonic fiend, it's just common knowledge that Vince takes the whole alpha male bullshit to an extreme and he doesn't like for people to be at ease.

    When you put the different managerial styles together and couple them with their creative choices, then it's little wonder why the overall results of NXT stars going to the main roster is mixed. That's not to say that it's all a difference of creative approach, though that is a hefty factor when you consider that wrestlers can generally only do what they're told, as there are some who may react better with NXT fans than on the main roster and vice versa but it's not something that you can simply generalize. A LOT of it comes down to how they're viewed in the eyes of the men in charge. In NXT, Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn were definitive headliners, Bray Wyatt was about the coolest and most mysterious guy to come along in a long time, Finn Balor and Shinsuke Nakamura had fans eating out of the palms of their hands, Paige was the definitive Anti-Diva. On the main roster, Kevin Owens and Bray Wyatt, Wyatt probably more than any other single NXT guy, have been subjected to stop & go pushes or been offered up as sacrificial lambs to overpaid mercenaries like Brock Lesnar or Attitude Era relics like Goldberg. Wyatt is now looked upon by a lot of fans as the guy you put up against someone when you don't really have anything else for them and that's a damn shame. Balor and Nakamura have been reduced to just being guys on the roster because Vince isn't a fan or, allegedly, says that they aren't over despite all evidence to the contrary. Paige didn't act snotty or engage in petty little cat fights in NXT but, more often than not, that's what she's done on the main roster a lot of the time.

    If it was simply the fact that the wrestlers of NXT don't connect with fans on the main roster, then Vince could always step in and make changes to the hiring practices and policies in NXT. It's not like there's some deep, fundamental differences between NXT fans and main roster fans, it's not like one side consists of fans who listen to only Christian music while the other side is only into hardcore deth metal. We know that there are LOTS of fans who watch the main roster also watch NXT because they're already familiar with the wrestlers by the time they reach the main roster and have either invested in them or they haven't. Some wrestlers are also brought up from NXT to be useful hands, so I just don't really buy into notion of the audiences of the main roster and NXT being different. I know that Triple H has said it in interviews but do you really expect him to say anything different? We can't say what's in Triple H's mind, of course, but you do know that Triple H has to walk the line, to some degree, just like any other employee; when asked about the differences between NXT and the main roster, you know that Triple H isn't gonna say something like "the main difference is that I have a totally different outlook than Vince does. I'm more interested in making things as good for the fans as I can by doing my best by them and by the talent than catering to an audience of one and expecting fans to just put up with it." Triple H has a complicated relationship with Vince and Triple H CAN'T just toss Vince under the bus anymore than anyone else working for him can and expect to keep his job; it's all the more complicated because Triple H is married to his only daughter and is the father of Vince's three granddaughters. Even though they have a professional relationship, you just know that there are times that Triple H wants to just go off on Vince because they're also family, and he probably does at times to some degree because working together or not, family get on each other's nerves sometimes and that's just a cold hard fact of life no matter what.
     
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  3. #hamler

    #hamler Trending Worldwide.

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    The problem lies with the creative team and how inept they've become with their inability to get anyone over in today's WWE. They're lazy. When all of these huge stars come up from NXT, creative does nothing to introduce them to the main roster audience. The new calls ups arrive and try to thrive off the popularity in NXT.

    If you really want to get down to it, NXT has simply become way more than a developmental league. NXT writers listen to their audiences. They don't push a certain superstar because he has a great look. They push talent and guys who are the most over. That's a problem on the main roster. So much so, when these NXT stars show up on the main roster, it's a downgrade. That shouldnt be the case but it is a fact. Creative needs to find out why these guys succeeded in NXT and use that on the main roster.
     
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  4. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    I have to disagree somewhat about HHH having a different vision compare to Vince. In a interview, HHH said that it's harder to book the main roster compare to NXT because they can't please everybody because of are large the fan base is compared to NXT.

    The thing is NXT is comprise of more smart fans or fans of the Indy scenes. Just look at the the ticket sales for the survivor series weekend. If you believe what Meltzer reported, nxt:war games was the event that sold the less amount of tickets out of all four events during the weekend. Because NXT type of booking isn't connected with fans outside the 18 to 49 demographic and HHH knows it so when he going to get the run the wrestling aspect of wwe, he will booked it the same way that Vince does because it's a proven successful way of doing this.

    NXT works for the demo it's targeting but because that demo is putting it on a pedestal, the performers are going to fail if they don't look or feel the same way they did in the small pound that is NXT. We forget that NXT exist to TRAIN those performers so that they can work the WWE style of wrestling and drop all the bad thing they learn doing the Indy style of wrestling. The cream will always rise to the top even with bad booking. I feel like they should focus more on making them ready for any type of crowd and the wwe schedule and less on pleasing the NXT crowd.
     
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  5. Kodo Sawaki

    Kodo Sawaki Championship Contender

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    NXT is great platform. For example in 2000s people like Balor, Charlotte, Sasha and others would either come from different company or FCW and be miss used because

    a) nobody would heard for them
    b) gimmicks they had would be scraped from start and they would start with new ones
    c) wouldnt probably be on the same level because you wouldnt have guys like Joe(he would probably go straight to main roster) there to boost star power and work with more inexperienced talents and overall learning curve would not be that high

    Now when somebody comes from NXT to main roster its instantly big deal. You know name, gimmick and you know if its good or bad based on his/hers performance at NXT that you watch on weekly basis and even has personal PPVs. When they come fans are already cheering or booing and already build a bond to certain characters. That you didnt had in 2000s and its much better now.

    Trouble is, fans then expect a lot. Not every guy is Balor to win main title on his first PPV. Not every girl is Charlotte and Asuka with their personal streaks. Lots of them are midcard potentials at best, lots of them are indeed mishandled and lots of them can either flourish(like for example Alexa) or even deteriorate(like Bayley) when you throw them into main event water and expect them to sink or swim. So that is why when they sink due to any of that reasons fans get mad. Its a double edged sword. Has nothing to due to exposure(more exposure cant be bad) just with the fact that fans rage when character they like is mishandled. And that would probably happen with or without that NXT.
     
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  6. Vanilla Midget

    Vanilla Midget Registered Suplex Offender

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    Another problem is as fans, we want the people we like pushed to the top now, not later. Shinsuke hasn't been on roster for a year yet, ditto for Roode. Balor has been there for two years, and most of one of those years he was hurt.

    Not everyone gets the rocket to the top treatment. Sheamus and Lesnar are two guys who went from debut to world champion within a few weeks to months. Edge debuted in 1997 and won his first world title in 2006. Edge was in WWE for nearly 10 years before he became a main eventer.

    Granted, Edge debuted in his 20s. Roode, Balor, Nakamura, and Samoa Joe are all in their mid to late 30s. They're all wrestling on a potentially shorted clock and all have heightened risk for career threatening injuries. If you're going to do something with them, it has to happen sooner than later.

    So yes, it's bad that ppv main events are being tied up with already over part timers Shane, Kurt, Triple H, and Cena all main evented Survivor Series, a ppv where an NXt guy like Bray Wyatt wasn't even on the card.

    Wyatt has been in WWE for nearly five years, just over half the time it took Edge to win his first world title. He's defeated at WrestleMania for each appearance. Is his career just over? Didn't he just turn 30?

    There needs to be patience. This is the year of Lesnar, which should be coming to a close by March. Raw will have a world title on weekly TV and every ppv again. There's about to be much more space at the top that is non-existent at this time.

    Yes, booking of top NXT stars is generally ham fisted. Patience is required. If jobber Jinder can go from rags to riches, imagine what happens when the pull the trigger on a talented wrestler like Roode, Nakamura, or Joe. 2018 will hopefully be more interesting for all the recent NXT alums.
     
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  7. #hamler

    #hamler Trending Worldwide.

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    http://www.pwmania.com/rumors-on-triple-h-being-frustrated-with-vince-mcmahon-murder-suspect-wwe
    It's obvious their visions are on the complete and opposite sides of the wrestling spectrum. If you look at how well NXT listens to their audience and compare that to WWE, it's quite clear their views are different. It's apparent when a gimmick as ridiculous as Rusev Day gains momentum and WWE doesn't capitalize on it. Vince rarely listens to what his audience wants. He's stubborn and it's fairly obvious.
    Are you sure that has nothing to do with NXT being a developmental league and not having a major television deal to advertise to millions of people? NXT is doing just fine for a promotion that relies solely on word of mouth and the network to advertise their events.
    [​IMG]
    There are plenty of stars younger kids and women can relate to. The problem lies with WWE's inability to write decent storylines so someone like Bayley has a chance to shine on the main roster. Bayley should be on top of the women's division right now. But no, she's a joke.
    Vince has proven successful in the past no doubt. He's a genius. Steve Austin is the most over star in wrestling's history because the fans wanted him. Rocky Miavia was complete shit until Vince took notice and turned him into what would become one of the greatest talkers of all time. Point being, you have to listen to your audience. He isn't doing anything of the like currently. Braun Strowman is the most over star on the roster right now yet he isn't being groomed for that top Wrestlemania spot. I can't help but think Triple H would utilize that.

    Bad booking can make or break you, no matter how great you are. Just like good booking can make or break you no matter how bad you are. Once again, look at someone like Braun Strowman. When he debuted he was complete trash. He still isn't all that great. But with some damn good monstrous booking, he's the greatest thing on Monday nights. While booking isn't always everything, it does help to have the booking team behind you.
    What exactly is it that NXT is doing to make them over with their audience and not WWE's main audience? They learn promos. They developed their characters. They learn where the cameras are and are pretty successful in the ring. Are you sure the two booking teams aren't just completely different here?
     
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  8. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

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    One week you suggest that Impact disappears and now you are suggesting that NXT basically does the same. Your hatred for money is palpable.

    Not every new wrestler makes it big. Not now, not ever. Whether they came from a rival organization, the Indys, a small wrestling school, NXT, or nowhere, not everyone is going to make it. You don't close down one of the top draws of your developing network and a possible additional tv revenue stream because The Ascension just aren't as good on the main roster.

    NXT grads should not be expected to make it to the top of the card. Certainly not very fast. Vince is traditionally very loyal to the guys that have worked a long time and continue to want to work. If Tye "who in their right mind thought this guy could get very over to the masses with a number gimmick" Dillinger were to show up out of nowhere, would he be more successful? I highly doubt it. Sure some guys benefited from basically skipping NXT (Reigns, Strowman, Styles) but NXT has at least given some main roster guys attention and time to develop in to something. Taking that away would kill some of that before these guys ever have a chance to fail.

    NXT benefits the overall WWE product.
     
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  9. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    First of all, please find me the place where i mention that i wanted NXT to close anywhere in my thread because i sure don't see where you mention that at all. I feel like you read one phrase or just the title of a thread and then don't bother reading the rest of the thread and just jump to conclusion because it serve your narrative.

    Secondly, while i don't want NXT to close down, i'm just mentioning how the success of the brand with a certain group of fans is hurting certain talents on the roster because they get put in a pedestal way quicker then when you had FCW or other developmental territories that were more local. i get that they make money by doing it this way but at what cost.

    It's easy to say that NXT listen to what fans wants and WWE doesn't but look at the crowd difference between the 2 brand, One is mostly comprise of adult 18 to 49 that's they main target demographic, sure's they have kids going to those shows but there not the majority so it's easier for them to listen to the fans when you only have to focus on one group, WWE is a whole different ball game, they're not a predominant demographic that's the majority of fans, so they have to listen to what everybody wants not just one group because you need to please as many peoples as you can and like the famous saying goes, ''you can't please everyone''. So that's why it seem like they don't listen to the fans when in reality they do and they just push whoever is connecting with the most group of fans.

    Finally, now that i explain my whole thread, i just want to know, where in my original thread did i mention that i wanted NXT to close because unlike IMPACT, which i did say that i wanted them to close because let's face it, at this time, it wouldn't be a big lost for anybody and it would save a lot of money to anthem if they just close shop and cut their lost, NXT is a profitable product that actually make some money and i want to stay around, i just wonder if having it as the third brand help or hurts the talent in the long run? So please next time, read the whole thing before replying to a thread
     
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  10. #hamler

    #hamler Trending Worldwide.

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    I've seen you write this out a couple times today in various threads and it pains me to see someone base their opinion off something that isn't factual. Where exactly are you getting this info from?

    From the Wrestling Observer Newsletter in 2013...
    That's almost 50 percent of WWE's total audience. 18-49 is nearly the majority.
     
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  11. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    Yeah but out of those 56% of those 35 and older that the observer is reporting, How many of them are parents that are bringing They're kids to the show. You have to take these into consideration because thoses fans aren't necessarily wrestling fans and are only their to make their kids happens. The observer's report is pretty much a basic report without taking any breaking down the stats. While you might take it as facts, I don't since they don't go into details about thoses stats and therefore they only printed them to make them look good,
     
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  12. Dagger Dias

    Dagger Dias Natural 20
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    I fail to see how being perceived as the tertiary brand is hurting NXT. The system in place is excellent. The fans now get a chance to see the future stars of tomorrow as they develop in NXT. The Takeover events have created some of the best wrestling content I have ever seen. The yellow brand is what the WWE tried to turn their version of ECW into. A developmental brand that prepares the wrestlers for the two main shows while still providing exposure. I do understand how it can be frustrating if someone as a fan has high expectations for someone on the main roster if they liked their work in NXT. However, the system that is currently in place is so much better than how things used to be. It gives us a reason to care about these new people as they show up on Raw or Smackdown if we watched them on NXT. The NXT brand is very popular and is in no way hurting anyone. Quite the contrary, it has made the WWE that much more interesting as a whole. There is no reason to change the process at this time.
     
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  13. #hamler

    #hamler Trending Worldwide.

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    https://www.cagesideseats.com/2013/...mographics-and-why-you-can-expect-more-of-the

    According to that, only 6% were fan parents. You can't pick and choose what facts you want to believe. I still would like to hear where your claim that NXT and WWE have two totally opposite demographics watching them.
     
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  14. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    I'm base my claim on stuff that I've read on wrestling website just like this one we're it's been reported in the past that wwe live crowd have more family then single adults going to their show and you can tell just by watching NXT that the crowd is comprise mostly of adults without families.

    The other fact that I based my claim out of was the report in the observer as far as tickets sales during the survivor series weekend. Meltzer reported that out of the four shows that weekend, the show that sold the less amount of tickets was the NXT war games shows. In fact, even if you take into consideration the fact that they had less space because of the 2 rings configuration, they had problem selling tickets and had to move some fans to make the arena look like it was sold out. They had the same problem last year in Toronto. So that why I claim that The nxt crowd isn't the same as the wwe crowd. Because if you believe those report about ticket sales, fans a lot of casual fans or kids and families don't necessarily watch NXT. While NXT is very successful, it's still a niche product since the only way they are able to sell out during one of the big four weekend is if they get fans travelling to those event because local crowd that goes to all the main rosters wwe event during the weekend Won't necessarily go to a nxt show.

    Again, I'm not claiming that I right about this or anything, I'm just writing my opinion based on what I've read just like you did. The fact that NXT is attracting a smaller crowd compared to wwe makes listening to the fans a lot harder since you have to please everybody. By the way, I got this last part from a interview that HHH gave last week and that was publish on the main site.
     
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  15. Aeon Mathix

    Aeon Mathix Has Ascended

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    So you write something like

    Yet you bring up Meltzer in this post using his supposed spot on analogy that WarGames drew the least amount of people at all the events during Survivor Series weekend? You are basing your claim off of a website's report you just said was pointless to take as fact.
     
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  16. George Steele's Barber

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    NXT is unique, it's never been done before. It poses as "developmental" organization while exposing its talent to the world. They tour, they make money. They are a draw to the WWE Network. They exist mostly on the internet with a focus on appealing to the most ardent fans and an international audience.

    You are saying they are overexposing talent and hurting the talent in the long run. What is your alternative? If it is less exposure then you are basically killing what they have built.

    But again, tell me, what is your alternative? Because any alternative to what NXT is doing is not NXT. You are basically killing NXT.



    So what? Why is less exposure good for the talent? Who cares if NXT fans sour on former NXT talent? Those fans are watching wrestling no matter what. Who is to say that they won't sour on that talent eventually anyway? It's not WWE's fault that some of their fans are not as smart as they think they are.

    Ok, I have no idea what that has to do with less exposure for WWE talent but fine.

    Except the fans, the talent, the employees, the owners, and the vendors.

    It helps. WWE could easily shut it down or change it anytime they want to but they don't. They could shut it down or scale it back much easier than Anthem could shut down Impact but they don't. They've made it their third brand, they know what they are doing way better than you or I do. They've chosen to invest heavily and stick with this type of brand and exposure. If that doesn't answer your question, I don't know what to tell you. This isn't a storyline tweek or booking decision. This is a massive business decision, WWE kind of has way more information than you. They aren't going to sit on Nakamura or Roode because some smarks expect them to get top booking on the main roster.
     
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  17. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    That's my point exactly, if you read the whole thread, I talk about how the smark like you like to call them are expecting too much out of the NXT talent when they get called up. That why, I Said that it hurting the talents more then helping them. Fans expect those guys especially the top tiers guys to get to same success on the main roster and being rocketed to the main event level on the main roster just because they we're main event talent on nxt and they bitch about it when they don't get that main event spot. That's why I talk about overexposure.

    Look I get that NXT is a great brand and everything, They're making some money with it and it o.k even through they prove with the low tickets sales for nxt: war games that They're not on the same level as wwe. It's still a good source of money and they shouldn't close it down. I'm just saying that it should be less about being a brand and more about being a developmental territory. Give a chance to those that are their to learn to get accustomed to be a tv instead of featuring the best Indy stars every week.

    How do you want thoses guys to be ready for the main when all the tv spots are taken by the big Indy names that are already ready for the main and are just their to help the brand make money. That's why I saying that it hurting the talents in the long run.


    Also, just look at how developmental was 15 years ago. Look at OVW and how many big stars came out of the territory. John cena, Brock lesnar, Batista, Randy Orton, Beth phoenix, Shelton Benjamin just to name those guys all came from OVW and the fact that nobody saw them grow help them in getting a connection with the fans on the main roster without having any expectations and for most of them, they became megastar. It was easier for them to make an impact because they we'rent expose to them every week, so they we're able to grow without having the spotlight put on them

    I get that time as change but in the end nxt is a developmental territory and it should be portrait at this and not as the third brand. They want to make money with it, I say go for it but they shouldn't forget what the mission of nxt is and That's to TRAIN the next generation of wrestlers, That's what important and sometimes I feel like they forget that just so they can please their fans base and make money.

    Finally, you never really answer my question. Where did I mention that I wanted NXT to close?
     
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  18. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    I would dispute that NXT is the "third brand" because it isn't treated like it.

    I have an even better way to expose NXT talent. Do everything they are doing now, but also have a couple of NXT matches on WWE PPVs.

    WWE have five dual-brand PPVs next year (RR, WM, MITB, Summerslam, Survivor Series).

    So why not have a couple of NXT title matches at, say, Wrestlemania or Summerslam. Why shouldn't the NXT World Title, NXT Tag-Team Titles or NXT Women's Title be defended where it will get maximum exposure?

    In the recent "Survivor Series" where it was Raw vs Smackdown, why wasn't NXT included as well?

    Think about this. 205 Live have matches at major PPVS, but NXT has none. Why not?

    Can you imagine how much more over Shinsuke, Roode, Balor etc would have got over if they had done Wrestlemania or Summerslam matches while in NXT. Have NXT titles defended on the dual-brand shows as well as the "Takeover" shows.

    Do you know what I think would be cool? An NXT Invasion storyline. Everyone complained about the original Invasion storyline, because WWE couldn't get the top WCW guys to sign.

    But since WWE runs NXT, having an NXT invasion on Raw and Smackdown would be awesome. It would be like Absolution or The Riott Squad, but with a lot of the main NXT roster (you can still use them on NXT as well). This will get them attention, even to those who don't watch NXT closely, and get many of these NXT stars over on a bigger stage quicker.
     
    #18
  19. Mighty NorCal

    Mighty NorCal SHALL WE BEGIN?

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    Bro, what?


    Bobby Roode and Nakamura are super over BECAUSE of the exposure they had on NXT.


    Familiarity can only help. Its not NXT's fault that guys come up super over and are randomly left off the show for months at a time (like Tye Dillinger, and last week, The Revival), or advertised to be killer monsters and then get jobbed out to the newest flavor of the month/sells for a underneath talent that is to be released soon for the majority of her debut match (Like Asuka) or doesn't provide ANY showcase opportunity for a team like American Alpha to do their signature hot tag/house of fire routines.

    NXT carrying greater exposure isn't to blame for WWE's atrocious building of non-stars. Its just more frustrating for people now because the guys get over and are successful and then the main roster proceeds to shed every aspect of the character and booking that made them succesfull in the first place.
     
    #19
  20. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    i feel like if they would have use the major talent like the roode and nakamura on the main show while they we're in NXT, it would have help them getting a connection with the WWE crowd and would have made the transition better while giving the younger guys that aren'T ready some sort of exposure by having those big names that truly didn't need to be in NXT to begin with represent them on the big shows.

    While i do like the takeover's special before the big four, it been proven that if you don't have fans traveling to the shows, They can be a bit a failure as far as ticket sales goes even if they have a strong card like what happened for NXT wargames. So why not have like the undisputed era show up on the survivor series card and wrestling against sanity for the NXT tag title or have a NXT Women's title match or NXT title match on the main card instead of doing a special that doesn't attract fans especially at survivor series which as been proven isn't a show that fans will travel to go see and you're not going to be able to sell out the NXT show with the local crowd alone.

    That way, by putting guys that are ready on the main PPV to represent the brand you do 2 things, first you make the brand more visible to a audience that might not watch NXT or don't know it exist yet and you please the smart fans by giving those guy more exposure which means that when they get called up permanently, it's going to be a easier transition between NXt and The main roster because more fans will already be familliar with those guys.
     
    #20
  21. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

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    And I'm telling you that it doesn't matter in the big picture if some fans bitch. They are still watching the product and going to events and buying deal. They care, that's far more important then their full satisfaction.

    So why change It?

    It is incredibly unrealistic to expect them to be on the same level as Raw and SD. Being the least amount of revenue is not a failure. It doesn't matter if they make the least amount of money, what is important is if they make enough money.

    Then how are they going to make money? Who is going to a show to watch green wrestlers? Who is going to tune in to watch shitty wrestling?

    And further, how does this help with overexposure? You're still exposing talent, it is just a different type of talent.

    Cream will rise to the top. If the talent is there, it will shine through. HHH will book the homegrown talent to success if he feels like there is money to make out of them. He will use the more established Indy guys to help with that success. It's pretty simple.

    Look at the drug testing policy from 15 years ago as well.

    And other than Lesnar there was a time where idiots on the internet complained about their booking and character and wanted more for those wrestlers, JUST LIKE TODAY.


    Not true

    If you want to be taken seriously don't refer to Shelton Benjamin and Beth Phoenix as megastars.

    No, they were able to grow because they have more talent and appeal than Nakamura and Roode.

    And it also took time.

    What is the difference? Everyone knows that they are not on the same level as Raw and SD.


    Are you suggesting that the NXT talent are not getting the best training in the world for them to succeed in NXT and for those that are headed to the main roster to succeed on the main roster?

    Based on your comments and suggestions (less exposure, less Indy talent, something closer to FCW) you are basically closing NXT. It can still have the NXT brand label but you are taking away the draw of it for the Network and for the fans that travel and spend four or five days on big PPVs.

    Doing that will likely kill it.
     
    #21
  22. #hamler

    #hamler Trending Worldwide.

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    Big E
    Xavier Woods
    Enzo Amore
    Big Cass
    Bray Wyatt
    Rusev
    Jason Jordan
    Bayley
    Baron Corbin
    Charlotte
    Sasha Banks
    Alexa Bliss
    Braun Strowman

    Just to name a few. All homegrown talent that have honed their craft even with their "spots taken by Indy talent". Oh and Roman fucking Reigns! You know the guy who's headlined every Wrestlemania for the last 3 years. Yeah that guy. Even now you have Lars Sullivan, two members of Sanity and Andrade Almas being pushed heavily. The Velveteen Dream put on a clinic with Aleister Black at the last Takeover.

    No matter how much you want to believe these Indy darlings don't need developmental, most do. The WWE is a completely different set up from every other company in the world. Here's an interview from Triple H on Balor's experiences when he first got to NXT.

    From ESPN Is that a legit enough source for you?
    Once again, I've provided you with examples and actual quotes of people that prove your theory wrong. I'm betting you'll skip right over that.
     
    #22
  23. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    Again Thanks for the example i really appreciate them.

    Now it's my turn,what have all the names you just put have in common, they we're all in NXT before the indy invasion or where barely use in NXT to begin with. If you don't believe me, go rewatch Some of the older episode of NXT.


    As far as Strowman is concern, the only thing he did in NXT was being part of the Rosebud for a couple of show since he got most of his training on the main roster and Reigns got most of his training in FCW and appeared only on 2 or three of the earlier episode of NXT.

    Alexa Bliss was pretty much in the shadow of Charlotte, sasha and Bayley throughout her stay in NXT and only became a star on the main roster because she didn't have, The four horsewomen to cast a shadow over her and she was finally given a chance to run with the ball.

    As for the current product, First i considered Andrede a indy guys because they got him from another promotion and he already had experience before showing up, So he's not at the same level as a Lars Sullivan or Velveteen dream, which by the way while they are both talented guys, won't make it far on the main roster, one because he's too generic and they have so many other monster type characters that can do this gimmick way better and the other because of the gimmick which scream comedy gimmick on the main roster which means he'S going to be settle with a low midcard spot and will be job out pretty much every week. My point is while i do agree that the indy guys needs training mostly because they never wrestled in a Entertainment company that produce wrestling which means they need to realize we're the camera are and how to play to them. They didn't need to be in developmental for a long period like some of them did. Finn lasted over a year they're, so did nakamura and Joe just to name a few. A guy like Mcintyre doesn'T need to be on the brand, he'S already familiar with the WWE style, so why did they put him on that brand in the first place when somebody that needed like Allister Black who should be in the main event picture already is stock in the mid card wrestling guys that while good, won't amount to anything on the main roster.

    In the end let'S stop this back in forth and let's just agree to disagree on this. I don't think that it's worth it to try and prove that the other is wrong just for the sake of it. I Respect your opinion about this subject and the question is do you respect mine or you just want to prove me wrong? i guess i'll have to wait and see.
     
    #23
  24. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    Quick Question, When NXT start this new format did you watch it? Because i sure did, you had a great mix of talent that we'Re all learning to be on t.v and were working together and slowly but surely, fans started watching it especially when they put it on the network and back then while you did have some indy guys, they weren't big draws and they got put in positions to help the younger guys with no experience grow. We wouldn't have a charlotte if it wasn'T for Paige and Natalya helping her out who then help Sasha out and the list goes on and on of indy stars helping out the younger generations.

    What i'm suggesting is not to take the indy stars away from NXT, but more use them to help the younger guys make a name from themselves by wrestling them instead of always putting indy guy vs indy guy on top. You can draw as much money with a match between lest say Drew mcintyre and Lars sullivan as you could with two top indy stars, the difference is the first one help a younger guy get experience on a main event level.

    You mention IMPACt Wrestling in a earlier post, What was the first thing fans complains for years about IMPACT? How the home grown guys could get a spot in the main event level because it was alway occupied by the big name talent. That's what NXT is starting to become and their popularity is starting to fade because of it again based on the attendance of the last takeover special and the fact they don'T do as much touring as they use do.

    Sure they get some of the best training in the world, i'm not disputing that but i am saying that the booking is becoming stale because it's always about the same guys while others get that deserve a spot on the show get almost nothing.

    Also on a side note, While i don't considered shelton to be a huge star like Cena, Orton, Lesnar and Batista. I do considered him a big star based on everything he accomplish during his career. As for Beth, She a fucking Hall Of Famer, if she wasn't a huge star within the women's division, they wouldn't even bother inducting her this year.
     
    #24
  25. Rainbow Yaz

    Rainbow Yaz Sing about me, I'm dying of thirst
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    Yeah, because we all know that Koko B. Ware was a huge star and really moved those ticket sales in the early 90s.

    Serious question, because your grammar and spelling are often terrible. Is English your first language or do you have some kind of learning disability? I also ask because you fail to grasp the point of everyone else in this thread. Multiple people have proven your points wrong, often with links to facts, and you ignore them to keep pushing your stupid points. You say "I read on multiple websites" yet you fail to provide any links to these websites that support your points.

    You say NXT is dying because one Takeover, which took place close to a major American holiday, had lower than average attendance. You talk about all the big stars OVW and FCW produced, despite it being common knowledge that FCW was dogshit and OVW had one decent class that included Cena, Batista, and Orton.

    As far as this indy invasion you claim is happening to NXT, what do you suggest? To me, it seems like you want NXT to take these guys who have built solid name value on the independent scene and push them to the bottom of the card and make them jobbers so the "home grown" NXT talent can get to the top. I mean, clearly taking Adam Cole and making him job in four minutes to the latest failed football player that just started in the Performance Center is going to bring in the fans that are clearly leaving because TakeOver War Games did below average attendance numbers.
     
    #25
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