How are the 29 Royal Rumble eliminations determined?

[lostsoulforever]

Anyone else ever wondered about this?

I've watched the 2001 and 2002 Rumbles again in the last couple of days.

In the 2001 match, Kane is in the ring with four or five other superstars, and goes wild, eliminating them all, just in time for the Honky Tonk Man to return, and subsequently get a guitar over his head from Kane.

In the 2002 match, Maven eliminates the Undertaker, and the Hardy Boys and Lita have distracted him.

Both of those are examples to me of the Rumble being scripted to a point.

Now obviously the winner is determined beforehand (and is quite often fairly predictable), but what about the other 29? Are superstars given time limits for the length of their appearance in the match?

 

[silverwraith720]

Basically Kane, Santino, a woman (Chyna or Beth Phoenix), or Matt Hardy have a better chance at rolling a 13 on two 6-sided dice than winning the rumble. If they've won the WHC or WWE title, they're almost guaranteed to stay in mid to late. And then if creative feels they deserve it, they'll win. So here's a list of people who will NEVER win the royal rumble : Kane, Santino, Matt Hardy, Mark Henry, Kofi Kingston, Dolph Ziggler, Evan Bourne, Yoshi Tatsu, Goldust, at this point I think you get the picture, but who knows, maybe they'll surprise us and next years final 2 will be Cena and Hornswaggle.

 

[JayMiine]

I've really always been very interested by this. I've emailed wrestlezone to see if they could post an editorial on it, but no such luck. I have a feeling the referees outside have a helping hand in calling out elimination times to the wrestlers. But, I've always been curious as to how exactly the rumble is planned out. It seems very chaotic.

 

[Bobby B]

I can't think it's scripted that heavily, because it'd be chaos. But I would get the feeling that creative know who they want the final 4/5 left in the ring to be - and realistically you want them all to look like credible winners of the rumble (building tension with Santino and William Regal still in is probably quite difficult.

Beyond that I imagine wrestlers are told around what time they should be eliminated - (when such and such enters - that's your cue to exit). Probably a lot of talking going on in the ring between the Wrestlers.

... just my thoughts, I don't claim to know it.

 

[Canadian Knight]

I have always asked that question because it was predictable who would win it first of all. They probably have a mind storm and with the McMahons they probably go okay first here is HHH, he will go far. They usually go for simple things like okay the big guys should be elimanted by a group. They want to make it look it is not predictable, and that is why they seem to like to get surprise people to draw 29 like Edge and Cena.

 

[vampirek]

There has been several examples of the 10 second count starting straight after someone is eliminated. It has happened too many times for it not to be scripted, so they use that. As for how do they determine it, the biggest case is when Big Show was ganged up upon. You can clearly him he say 'First, John Cena then RVD' the next two eliminations came from the Big Show on John Cena and RVD in that order.
So in all, there is just subtle conversation on in the ring telling of who is next out

 

[Greenlight13]

I would imagine it is in fact heavily scripted, yes. Moments like you mentioned where the ring is cleared to set up a big interaction HAVE to be scripted. You can't trust the wrestlers to pick when they should be eliminated. They have to be told "right, you need to be gone between number 21 and 22" and "____'s going to eliminate you". So that when number 21 comes out the wrestlers involved in the elimination go into their pre-planned elimination spot.

Everything from entrance order, to elimination order, to who eliminates who is scripted in my opinion. This match would be far too crazy if they let the wrestlers wing-it. It's timed quite precisely and they try and line up these surprises and you can't have people ad-libbing in these moments. People need to know when they're coming in, when they're leaving, and who's making them leave.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Most of them are probably assigned to be eliminated by a certain superstar.

They probably pick 3 or 4 ME'ers to do all the eliminations (remember Kane eliminating 1/3 of the participants in '01?), and add an odd couple where a fued might develop later, or a pre-planned spot to break up the action e.g. Mable being taken out by the Ministry in 1998, Honky Tonk Man in 2001, Ernest 'The Cat' Miller dancing halfway through the 2004 Rumble, or Foley's taking Test's spot, 'Taker's Gong going off, Punk's reciting the Straight Edge Pledge mid-Rumble etc etc.

They can't wing it. I mean, do you really think Khali suddenly decided to let Beth eliminate him this year, out of the kindness of his heart?

 

[Showtime]

Basically, most of the eliminations are just filler. Take this past year, which just seemed like everyone was eliminated quickly. 8 didn't last a minute, 10 of the entrants didn't last more than 2 minutes, and 16 didn't last more than three. And the big names are obviously the ones who eliminate the most people, this year they accounted for 22 of 29 eliminations, with the last years being 23, 22, 28, 23, 23, so at least 2 thirds or more made by top guys. Generally in a given Royal Rumble they will signal out a few eliminations that will lead to a feud. Such notable examples are

when Angle stole a # to get into RR 2005 and was then eliminated by HBK, and then Angle eliminated him.
Kane eliminating King Booker in 2007 which set up their No Way Out match.
Lesner coming out and attacking Goldberg in 2004 which lead to his elimination.
Test eliminating Regal which lead to Test winning the European Title next RAW.
Mysterio eliminating Orton in 2006, which lead to NWO and WM that year.

The last example is most common, deciding the last 2. Generally they will pick either the 2 most over individuals, see Batista/Cena in 2005, or 2 guys who have been feuding or could lead to one, like Lesner/Taker, Austin/McMahon, Austin/Rock, HHH/Angle. In all thou, most eliminations are filler. If you happen to be 1 of the 30, good for you. The WWE feels you might be worth something. I couldn't imagine the disappointment of not being 1 of the 30 or not even on the card for some wrestlers. But most of them are just random fodder, thrown inbetween big names to speed up the match and maintain the suspense, and at least 2-6 eliminations will be done by middle or upper-middle carders that could lead to post RR feuds.

 

[The Con Volt]

Let's use this year's rumble as an example, since it's still fresh in all of our minds. First two out were Evan Bourne and Dolph Ziggler. This is probably because despite whatever station it is they hold in the company, Vince realizes they can work a good 90 seconds to get the crowd warmed up. Then out comes CM Punk. Eliminates them both and gets on the mic. That's one angle. "It's clobberin' time", and out comes JTG. Quickly gets eliminated, same with Zack Ryder, then out comes Khali and Beth Phoenix. And of course, Beth eliminates Khali. That's angle number two. HHH comes out and specifically eliminates Punk. Angle number 3. Then you got MVP eliminating Miz, R-truth eliminating both big show and kane, HBK eliminating HHH, Batista elimating HBK. Angles 4,5,6, and 7. Get the point here? Most if not all of the royal rumble match is 100% planned out. In fact if you ever asked a WWE superstar, they'd probably say that the royal rumble is the most frustrating hour of the year because of all of the coordination it requires.

Good thread, my man.

 

[Davi323]

I think its a combination...obviously, the events that eliminate the last 4-5 wrestlers are most definitely scripted...but, I think the middle of it isn't. At least not down to the nitty gritty details. I suspect its more of a general outline, and that there is a lot of improvisation going on. There would have to be. For a match that complicated, if it was 100% scripted from start to finish, it would be incredibly daunting. Considering they have other matches to book as well, completely planning out a 30 man match is biting off a lot more than a reasonable person could chew. With the Kane incident, I don't think it was "Kane is going to eliminate wrestler A, B, C, D, E and F specifically, but more, somewhere in the middle, Kane is going to go on a rampage and start tossing people out left and right...roll with it.

It can't be 100% scripted due to the complicatedness, but it can't be 100% improvised chaos either. It has to be a blend. Most matches are a blend of that anyway. As long as they get from point A to point Z, and hit a few pre-planned spots along the way, they more or less book the rest of the match on the fly.

Perhaps I am wrong on that, but, booking seems more like generally outlining a match rather than dictating each and every specific move within it. It would explain why some wrestlers continuously put on much better matches than others, because they are better at improving during the match.

 

[lostsoulforever]

I think its a combination...obviously, the events that eliminate the last 4-5 wrestlers are most definitely scripted...but, I think the middle of it isn't. At least not down to the nitty gritty details. I suspect its more of a general outline, and that there is a lot of improvisation going on. There would have to be. For a match that complicated, if it was 100% scripted from start to finish, it would be incredibly daunting. Considering they have other matches to book as well, completely planning out a 30 man match is biting off a lot more than a reasonable person could chew. With the Kane incident, I don't think it was "Kane is going to eliminate wrestler A, B, C, D, E and F specifically, but more, somewhere in the middle, Kane is going to go on a rampage and start tossing people out left and right...roll with it.

It can't be 100% scripted due to the complicatedness, but it can't be 100% improvised chaos either. It has to be a blend. Most matches are a blend of that anyway. As long as they get from point A to point Z, and hit a few pre-planned spots along the way, they more or less book the rest of the match on the fly.

Perhaps I am wrong on that, but, booking seems more like generally outlining a match rather than dictating each and every specific move within it. It would explain why some wrestlers continuously put on much better matches than others, because they are better at improving during the match.

Back to the Kane eliminations in 2001, at the point that he eliminated four or five guys in about 30 seconds, I'm sure he knew he had to clear the ring, to allow the spot involving Honky Tonk Man to return, sing his song, then have Kane nail him with the guitar, to happen.

 

[SFC]

As mentioned above, I believe they pretty much assign each person to who they will be eliminated by. They wing it from there (with the exception of the obviously planned parts such as the Khali or Kane stuff).

What I've always wondered is what would happen if the person scheduled to win accidentally hit the ground and were (by technicality) be eliminated. Do they have a back-up plan?

 

[Davi323]

I would imagine so. Especially when the wrestler has one of those spots where they are thrown out, but hang on to the top rope, with their feet dangling inches from the ground...They were able to get away with it once, with Shawn Michaels, by inventing the new rule that both feet had to hit the ground (if it was a rule before, they NEVER mentioned that both had to hit for it to count until after HBK's one foot hit), but now, I would imagine that they have to plan for the possibility.

 

[The Brain]

I would imagine it is in fact heavily scripted, yes. Moments like you mentioned where the ring is cleared to set up a big interaction HAVE to be scripted. You can't trust the wrestlers to pick when they should be eliminated. They have to be told "right, you need to be gone between number 21 and 22" and "____'s going to eliminate you". So that when number 21 comes out the wrestlers involved in the elimination go into their pre-planned elimination spot.

Everything from entrance order, to elimination order, to who eliminates who is scripted in my opinion. This match would be far too crazy if they let the wrestlers wing-it. It's timed quite precisely and they try and line up these surprises and you can't have people ad-libbing in these moments. People need to know when they're coming in, when they're leaving, and who's making them leave.

This is probably pretty accurate. I don't know that every elimination is planned out before the match, but it's very possible. Let's say a mid card guy comes in at number 8 and is in there for about 20 minutes. Before number 18 comes in an agent from the gorilla position tells him it's time for number 8 to go and 18 needs to eliminate him. 18 goes to the ring and communicates the message to 8 and out he goes. This would take trust between the wrestlers, but I think a group meeting held by Vince before the event could take care of that.

There are obviously some key moments that signal everyone needs to go. The main purpose of the 1990 rumble was to set up Hogan vs. Warrior. I'm sure everyone knew when Hogan comes out everyone needs to go within four minutes to set up the Hogan/Warrior showdown.

 

[Cartoon2]

Some of the eliminations are definitely scripted. For instance, in RR 2000, Rikishi came in and cleaned house leaving just Grandmaster Sexy in the ring. Out comes, you guessed it! Scotty 2 Hotty. So Too Cool is out there and they do their dance!
That's pretty much what happens. Eliminations happen in order to set up angles, like someone (I forget who and I apologize) before me said.

 

[Bobby B]

I've always thought that (and I know I might sound like a mark here) there must be the worry that somebody could get knocked over the top rope by accident. A bit silly but when there's 15 odd guys in the ring, with everything going on, you could easily find your self in trouble.

Yes there are setups that will lead to a feud, but I imagine that some are just given a general outline of what they need to be doing, and roughly when they need to leave.

 

[Chaz]

I'd imagine the Refs would have something to do with it somehow, but I would love to know this as well.

 

[brighamosity]

What I've always wondered is what would happen if the person scheduled to win accidentally hit the ground and were (by technicality) be eliminated. Do they have a back-up plan?

I think that's why they say "both feet must touch the floor" because it would be really hard to accidentally do that. I remember they used to just say "hit the floor", like where it didn't have to be both feet and I don't think it even had to be the top rope (but I may be wrong about the latter). But one year someone foot touched the ground and the refs argued for a few minutes and then they said that he wasn't eliminated. So I guess maybe they had intended for him to win but then he accidentally touched the floor so they improvised.

 

[lostsoulforever]

I've always thought that (and I know I might sound like a mark here) there must be the worry that somebody could get knocked over the top rope by accident. A bit silly but when there's 15 odd guys in the ring, with everything going on, you could easily find your self in trouble.

Yes there are setups that will lead to a feud, but I imagine that some are just given a general outline of what they need to be doing, and roughly when they need to leave.

That would definitely be possible. It only takes someone's hands slipping as an attempted elimination occurs for someone to be 'wrongly' eliminated.

 

[lostsoulforever]

As mentioned above, I believe they pretty much assign each person to who they will be eliminated by. They wing it from there (with the exception of the obviously planned parts such as the Khali or Kane stuff).

What I've always wondered is what would happen if the person scheduled to win accidentally hit the ground and were (by technicality) be eliminated. Do they have a back-up plan?

Well, didn't that happen when Cena and Batista eliminated each other at the same time in the 2005 match? I'm not sure if that was a mistake or a genuine thing, where Vince ordered the match to be restarted. Certainly Vince injuring himself climbing into the ring wasn't meant to happen.

 

[Caustic]

I think there is a formula to the Royal Rumble that is scripted, and it works. Hear me out:

They assign roles for certain intervals and events.

Pacecar--think of them as a subdirector of the match. They last the longest, and direct the flow of traffic. Ex. HHH. He comes in at #1 or some low number. As a veteran, he knows how to keep tension in the match and keep everyone in line. I have seen Shawn Michaels do it, Chris Benoit, Stone Cold, etc.

Cleaner--a "big" man either in weight or height who eliminates the fodder. Their jobs are only temporary, and sometimes an "event" or storyline piece is centred around either their entrance or elimination. They eliminate fodder at their discression, but will be eliminated by the Pacecar or the Winner. Almost all come in during the middle numbers of the rumble, but never make it to the end. Expect a Cleaner to always be one of the last 3 entrants to add tension for the final eliminations.

Replacement Pacecar: Just like this past year, HHH asked to be eliminated from the Rumble because he thought he was injured. So he told shawn to eliminate him, and Shawn took over. I think the Replacement purposefully comes in around 14-17.

The Winner: Just because there is so much chaos, I think there are fallbacks just in case an elimination occurs on the winner. They probably have plans for two winners. The first winner is a variable for when they enter, but in recent years it has been in the later numbers (24-30). But for sure, in the last three people, they have the second winner in there just in case. Always a main eventer. So don't expect Santino or Beth to enter at #30. That second winner will be the last elimination of the rumble if the actual winner hasn't been tossed out.

Fodder: Beforehand I am sure the talent are all given their numbers of entry, and how many minutes they will work. They are given a number to be eliminated at, so when the buzzer hits they have that 10 second rule to get their ass to either a cleaner or the pacecars to be eliminated. If the fodder eliminate themselves before their number, meh, its no biggie. Their job is not to eliminate anyone at all unless told.

Top Heel: The Heel that the WWE wants to promote, and will make it down to the last three entrants. They will drive the action, and act as a final director for the end eliminations. Always eliminated by the Winner. Will sometimes eliminate the Cleaner in a quick and dirty move. Sidenote: Sometimes the Top Heel is running with the Pacecar or Winner for most of their time in the ring. Best example I can think of: British Bulldog and Shawn Michaels...they stayed in for vitually the entire match from entrants #1 and #2. Only this time the Heel won...But they were both the pacecars for the rumble at the same time.

In the rumble, there are 3-4 "encounters/events" that must happen that certain wrestlers must have the spotlight for. The others don't have to clear the ring, but the encounters must happen uninterrupted and not undermined by other action in the ring. So the fodder action becomes slow, or acting hurt a lot. It is to highlight current storylines, or highlight key moments of elimination to further a rivalry. The Rumbles are getting shorter, so there is not as much time for these events. But you always see them in the promos on Raw and Smackdown the week after.

Final 4: Obvious. The Winner (from whatever number entry), then a Replacement Winner, a Top Heel and a Cleaner that entered #27 or after.

That's my take on it. Referees on the outside are there to update live changes only by creative on the fly if some of the events are screwed up. It shows that the talent know what they are doing actually...its a tough match, and the Royal Rumble is organized chaos X 30