I made a reply at first I told you that for me he was the most interesting thing in wrestling to watch and he has been for the past years. You don't have to like everything that he does equally, but like I told you, the reason you did this topic is because you are annoyed that a lot of people liked him.
And this is why they annoy me, I just said that he isn't that good and look what happened. This isn't as much about Punk anymore as it is about me. I say Punk isn't very good on the internet and everyone defends him like they're fuckin' him or something. They don't counter my view point for the most part, just lay into me about being a "hater." I was watching a video about Undertaker and Brock Lesnar and, for some strange reason they started to discuss CM Punk. I stated my opinion with everyone else's and one guy picked a fight with me, I'm still waiting for his response.
Of course some of them may be "dick riders" as you call them, but how many Cena's fan are. If you really always liked Punk you should be happy that he is getting recognition and not try to tamper it or be annoyed by it. To me it seems like when you discover and indy band and like them and the day they finally become bigger and maybe more mainstream you start hating (or in this case liking them less) them for it.
First, you don't know shit about me, you need to stop projecting. Second, most of Cena's fans are dick riders because most of them are children who don't know anything other than they like this person so they don't really count as dick riders and women who actually want to ride his dick.
The real crime is that a lot of people didn't find him awesome when he was in SES and was doing awesome speeches after awesome speeches but it wasn't bringing him anywhere unfortunately and I will blame WWE booking for that. How bad are you at booking when you can't even book a god damn stable.
I thought he was dynamite as the Straight Edge Messiah, I could start a whole other thread with what I thought they could've went with that gimmick and stable. The thing is that he was still going through his situation with The Undertaker, it was similar to HHH's year in purgatory for the Curtain Call. I was hoping that the stable would actually be his way out but Gallows and Serena got fired while Joey Matthews got hurt and is now working in FCW as a trainer I believe.
I don't care that it's Super-Cena, they are 7... 7 guys that would beat him back into the rank, Cena shouldn't win, he should get his ass beated all the time and then ask for a one on one with every member barred from the ring and then he could win. Now before people start to freak out I know we are not talking about Cena but that was the most flagrant example of how WWE can't book a stable right. Same for SES, I don't care it's Big Show and he is 7 foot tall, they are THREE, they should break his legs and keep him on the floor, they are THREE. But no, Big show had to win and the SES started to fizzle, instead they could have booked Punk has a champion backed up by his stable and even make Gallows and Mercury tag champ, but WWE his using stables when they have nothing for you or when they want to create a story without the title, but a stable goal should dominate.
I agree, The Horsemen were always able to handle a bigger guy using strength in numbers and sharing a collective mind. I think their biggest mistake with Nexus was the whole concept of NXT in general when they branded them as rookies despite them all being 10 year vets. It made them look weak and anyone that gets beat by them look weak by extension. They tried smooth it over by saying they're rookies to WWE but have been doing it for a while but the damage was already done. I don't think Gallows needed the tag belts, they should've brought in another guy to tag with Mercury. I'd have had Gallows hold the U.S. or I.C. belt as Punk's #2 until he got too big and started feuding with Punk. That's just one way and the simplest, there were a lot of ways to book that stable though.
Back on Punk he was doing great matches and great speeches but he was overlooked because of his size, because he was self made, because he wasn't this or that so his gripes are legit and I don't think we should take wrestling fans for idiots. Like someone says, when Punk mentionned Colt Cabana, yeah most of the people didn't knew who he was but wha happenned after Raw? Cabana was trending on the net, because people are smart enough to look up what they don't know and informed themselves.
You still can't say he was over looked being a 5 time Champion, I don't care what anyone says, they put the belt on you and you become the face of the company. That's why The Undertaker told him what he told him. It may be a prop to the people backstage but it signifies that you are on top to the people who are watching at home.
Like someone said, for us everything should be rushed it seems because the IWC (that you are a part of) get bored very quickly. Cena has been doing the same routine for 5 years and the kids are liking him. Of course some of us think it's old but non IWC watchers like seeing the same thing, just like when I was younger I enjoyed Austin and McMahaon for years, but in this day and age (or at least for the IWC) that feud couldn't last 3 months before people say "OLD".
Speak for yourself, I'm a fan of pro wrestling that's posting on a forum, I don't go to arenas and chant like it's 1997. I don't have a short attention span, I'm a big supporter of stretching out angles, hell, I'd prefer if they'd slow things down. I wish they'd go back to the old school format of a few top level PPV events a year then "Clash of The Champion" type tv events on the off months. It would allow them to stretch the angles out since there are less big events where the title would likely change hands. That's why guys could hold onto the belt for so long 20-30 years ago. When you have a PPV every month at least, it condenses everything. It's not really an attention span thing either, it's that most of the fans are fickle and jump on whoever is the flavor of the month.
I just don't think that now is the time to stop rooting for Punk, it should be the opposite. I know that you could be annoyed by those "dick riders" who think that Punk is the BEST THINGZ EVAR, but you shouldn't.
I never said to stop rooting for him, I don't know where people are getting that. I said that I don't see the big deal, he's not as entertaining as he was a year ago when he was the Straight Edge Messiah. That was literally my favorite gimmick since Brock Lesnar's Next Big Thing gimmick. Dick riders always annoy me because they act like you're supposed to like it because they do. I do like Punk, he's just not as good as everyone thinks in my opinion, if you share it, cool. If not, that's cool too.
To me it just seems that you are angry because the best for you on the mic is The Rock and Punk is not on his level, but that's opinions. For some people they will think that the Rock is lame and that all his speeches are the same and for others Punk, Austin, Flair or HHH will be better. There's no right or wrong and you can't say The rock would eat him alive until we see that happen and we may never will.
Stop projecting on me, I'm not angry at anything, it's you who descended upon me for stating my opinion about Punk as a performer today. You can't think that Punk won't be addressed when The Rock finally gets back with all the shit he's been talking and The Rock is much better than Punk on the mic. He's too quick on his feet and he's more than witty, he's funny but what really gets me about people's attitude towards The Rock is the sellout thing. Just because neophytes from in the WWE are saying it, it must be true so people on the internet just jumps on the bandwagon because it's the hip thing to do.
Of course, it is great to be worked when you are watching the show but it seems as if you are having trouble separating fiction from reality even after you switch the TV screen off. Or it may be that you are just not intelligent enough to understand the angle. Either way, the choice is yours.
Eat a dick.
How does it mean that when the only effort to involve any "reality" in his promos has come from him? The rest of the characters speak and behave in the same manner as they had before Punk's shoot. And Punk's character aims at presenting what he personally believes as the reality. It may not be neccesarily true that bodybuilder type wrestlers are preffered by the WWE but he does want you to believe that so that you side by him.
What he believes to be reality, then he's still speaking from his truth and his truth is that he's just complaining about shit but not doing anything about it. He's just being a smartass but nothing has any teeth because he's just rewriting history as if he's never been champ or shit like that.
Yeah, you are nuts if you believe that Hogan, Austin and Rock all formed their own gimmicks. Hulk Hogan was an out and out Vince McMahon creation, heel Hogan was the brainchild of Eric Bischoff in order to boost Nitro ratings. Austin and Rock had little ideas about what their gimmicks would be like but the final product that you saw was a WWF creation.
Okay, I'll give you Hogan back but doesn't Austin tell the story of how he came up with his gimmick? Something about getting the ring name, "Stone Cold," from something his wife said about drinking the tea she made for him while it was still hot, didn't he? Or how about when he said that he got the idea of the gimmick after watching the HBO documentary on mafia hitman Richard "Iceman" Kuklinski in prison. The Rock said that his gimmick was basically telling the fans what he felt about being booed when he was being a face when he first became a heel. Hell, Flair got his gimmick from Buddy Rogers but he still decided that it was the gimmick to use. Even if Hogan was given the gimmick, he still made the gimmick his.
As for the story not moving forward, that's the fault of the guy booking the show. We know why Triple H hates Punk and why Punk hates Triple H and that was established two weeks into the storyline only. Triple H and Punk need to FIGHT for the storyline to move forward. Also the fact that HHH is a face and Punk is a tweener is also hindering the pace of the storyline. But I do know that this story will move forward post NOC. And I am willing to wait and watch rather than label Punk as a failure.
How long does it take to move the story further for Punk? The only thing that's changed is that he's fighting someone else. The face/tweener dynamic isn't hurting it, we've seen plenty of face/tweener feuds that have progressed with better pacing than this like Austin and HBK's earlier interactions. They paced it beautifully as rivals with the same cause against the Hart Foundation, sometimes they worked together and sometimes they had matches against each other. I didn't label him a failure yet, it's going that way unless something happens at NOC.
And finally Punk is not doing this to appease the internet, he has taken the gimmick of a fan who cares for internet fans to create a great storyline which seems to be working for everyone except for a few bitchy internet fans who are itching to label Punk as a lost cause.
Bitchy? If I'm bitchy, your mama's bitchy. No one painted him a lost cause, I initially said that he wasn't that good. Just because you can't handle someone not trying to ride the same dick as you are doesn't mean he's not liked. I just said that he has a lot of holes in his game.
Again you missed the point of my Stunner reference. If you look at it closely, the Stunner is a mere jawbreaker that cannot knock any guy down for a three count no matter how freakishly strong the performer is. You know what I am doing here? Nitpicking. Also imitating you.
If you were imitating me, you'd just make your point without trying to dig at me, stupid ass. See? Now I'm imitating you again, this is fun. Also, the stunner being a jawbreaker can indeed knock you out. If you take impact directly to the chin or jaw, the hinge of your jaw is pushed up into your brain knocking you unconscious, hence the boxing phrases "weak chin" or "glass jaw."
As for the Benoit deal, go watch the Royal Rumble 2003 match between Angle and Benoit. Kurt Angle powers out of a Crossface by standing up. By that reasoning Big Show should not have any trouble countering a crossface. ut that does not happen. Welcome to kayfabe dude.
Kayfabe these nuts, I know it's staged. Letting Angle power out of it did nothing but make it look weak, they should've had him maneuver out of it being technically superior. The point that I was making is that Benoit has a better chance of doing it due to being roided up, I can believe that he can put a hold on The Big Show and keep it there. It also goes back to my original point, Angle, Benoit, and Bret were big enough where you could believe that they could make a larger guy tap after working on him for an entire match. Punk doesn't look like he's very strong compared to the guys in the ring with him and he couldn't make a guy tap even after working on them, there's a reason that Nash said "hit the gym."
Also Benoit wasn't ever referred to as a roided up freak before the double murders and hence that cannot be the reason why he looked legit when he made Big Show tap in 2002-03. The thing is that making Big Show tap made Benoit look legit more than anything else. If Punk makes guys like Kane and Show tap out on a regular basis you will be easily able to believe that it can happen.
Please, everyone I knew that watched the show with half a brain at the time knew what time it was and, if you couldn't make that observation then kill yourself because life is much more of a challenge than noticing someone getting so big and ripped in such a small amount of time.
As for Punk not looking good against Cena, are you fucking kidding me? How did he look at MITB or SummerSlam? He looked Cena's equal in every fucking way. In fact the story of the second match at SummerSlam was that Cena had to raise his own game to be on Punk's level.
I guess it's time for the defend Cena's wrestling ability moment. Cena's a much better wrestler than most of the roster, just because he isn't overly technical or a high flier or does those MMA kicks everyone thinks he sucks. His gimmick negates the majority of his offense, he's not billed as any of those things, he's billed as a simple brawler that wins on sheer guts and determination. If Cena changed his gimmick to someone who actually wrestled, Punk wouldn't look good because Cena's move set would be augmented by his strength. Punk puts him in the Vise, Cena uses his power and technique to escape it and puts a hold of his own on if he doesn't counter it outright. Punk's good in the ring but someone like him isn't going to look against the true heavyweights especially with his lack of speed and quickness for his size, let me ask you this. How do you know that it wasn't Cena making him look good?
Also you haven't talked about how people buy Mysterio pinning guys like Show, Khali and Kane after a 619 or Kurt Angle making all of them tap to an Ankle lock which they could counter by just shaking their leg?
I'm not arguing for the 619, it's probably my least favorite thing in pro wrestling history. Kurt Angle used the Ankle lock in the same vein as Bret using The Sharpshooter or Flair with the Figure Four. He works on that part of the body so that when he slaps it on, it's to painful to think of how to counter it other than shit like grabbing the ropes or turning the Figure Four over. Also, they often do kick Angle off of the Ankle lock but what does a good ring psychologist like Angle does? He comes back to it and grapevines so that you can't shake him off and thus has to get to the ropes.
Yes, but you do not understand what it means. It means that he has a legitimate gripe to talk about which in your opening post you seemed to say as if he did not. That, it is true that in the WWE stuff like kissing asses of senior performers matter more than stuff like talent.
Unless your lips have touched that person's ass, kissing ass is a subjective view point. He could say that Cena's kissing Vince's ass, why? Because he did something he asked him to do? He's your boss, that's how you progress in the company. You can be talented but what's the use if the boss doesn't think he can trust you with more responsibility or that you'll squander it because you're not that interested in it? The Miz is moving up the same way that Cena has from what I understand but, since he's a heel instead of a face, he gets love. I didn't like The Miz for the longest but he's grown on me since his title run and I think that he and Truth are the best things going. They're basically saying the same thing as Punk but they're doing something about it, which holds my interest more.
What is the purpose of a rally? To create awareness on an issue and at times to create a furore over it. What did his shoot promo and his subsequent title victory do? Please tell me that you understand this point for the sake of your own intelligence.
Guess what, only a handful at best are rallying around him, everyone else doesn't care and a lot of the ones that did are starting to go the other way. I know the NFL's back and their ratings were doomed from the moment the lockout ended but I don't recall a significant ratings spike when he first started the season started either. No one actually cared outside of people who watched anyway. I like how you attack my intelligence, another personal attack. You can't just make your point, can you, child?
Something more may happen. Maybe Gallows or Cabana is coming back at a certain time. There were certainly rumors that Cabana had been signed to the WWE. Why the hell don't you have any patience? That is the problem with some of you. Instead of complimenting the great stuff that had been happening for three weeks, they prefer to bitch about the next two weeks that weren't as good. No era had shocking things happening every week.
Didn't this shit start back in July? Plenty of time with the condensed format they have now to spring Cabana or hopefully Gallows on us.
Also what is this deal with insulting HHH? Everyone from Chris Jericho to Randy Orton has done it and maybe even Triple H wants Punk to do that because it is something everyone gets over by. And some fans do have a legitimate gripe with Rock saying all the time that he loves the business but stayed away from it for 7 years. Cena has questioned it also. And like I said Punk has not mentioned it lately after he started getting more and more positive reactions. So maybe all that stuff was done to get a negative reaction.
It's not that he's getting over by insulting HHH, he's done a shoot at least once talking shit about his wife. Where I'm from, you beat a man's ass for that. How do you know that The Rock doesn't love the business? The man just has another job now, if Austin loved it so much, why'd he leave it twice just because he was unhappy with shit like putting Brock Lesnar over? The Rock did whatever was asked of him when he was doing it full time and moved on to another chapter in his life, he was never going to be a pro wrestler forever none of them will, he was fortunate enough to have something else to do earlier than most. The man's current career has a lot of demand on his time, it's not hard to believe that it would take 7 years to come back, it's not like he's making great B movies like Austin does(I loved "Knockout," that Hector kid was a dick), hes making big time movies and, yes, I include "Southland Tales" in that category. Anyway, when The Rock left, he did the right thing and put guys over on his way out, it's not his fault that they fucked it all up.
He is airing the dirty laundry for everyone out there. He is saying that these guys were talented and yet they got fired. He is putting it out there for everyone. Some agree with it and some, like you, do not.
It's stupid to do so, there are any number of reasons for those guys to lose their jobs, it's easy for him to say that since he's not the one making those decisions. What do you do when you don't have anything for Colt Cabana but you have something you can work with I don't know, The Boogeyman and there's only one spot left? It doesn't mean that he isn't good, they just couldn't use him. If he was any good, he'd go somewhere else and make a name for himself like Austin did.
Their finishers got over only after they themselves got over. Rock was using the Rock Bottom since 1997 and the People's Elbow since 1998 but no one was talking about them till he himself became a world champ. I remember commentators talking about the Rock Bottom as a side slam or something when he was a midcarder.
That's what I fuckin' said, The Rock got both moves over.
Same with DDP. He worked hard at getting his finisher over with the crowd but that did not happen until he was a bit over. The Spear would not have been noticed much had Goldberg lost ten matches and then won one or two. Lesnar got over due to a combination of his size and his speed which was unique for a big guy like him. And yeah, he did have a noticeably impressive physique.
We can go ahead and agree to disagree with DDP because Al Snow could do the Diamond Cutter and get over. Why do you think that Orton's boring promo cutting ass got over that quickly as a heel without Evolution, his finisher is the shit. The cutter just may be the best finisher of the last 20 years, it's a strong race with the Stunner and the F5. Yeah, Goldberg won a lot of matches in a row but it's been documented that the streak was something that they happened to notice one day and then used as part of his gimmick. Before that, he was the motherfucker using the spear where I'm from. Why are you repeating me? I already said that Lesnar got over due to his size and speed, the F5 was a big part of him getting over since the move was so unique and "devastating." His physique was impressive but nothing new. Lex's physique in his prime would blow Lesnar away. Bobby Lashley had a similar physique and he was nowhere near a over a Brock was.
Austin got his finisher over by using it regularly in his matches in the summer of 1996 against midcarders. Needless to say that the Austin 3:16 moment took place before that.
The speech didn't get him over, King of The Ring is never what gets them over, it's what they do after they're crowned that get's him over. He got it over as his finisher but when he started stunning people left and right who had nothing to do with anything just because they displeased him, that's when the finisher got him over was the rattlesnake that will strike at anything.
Uh yeah and there is nothing wrong with any of Punk's finishers. Once he is well established and has a few more victories under his belt, you will be able to understand this fact. A finisher can never hinder a wrestler. It can take him to new heights but it does not work the other way round.
Starship Pain hurts Morrison, it looks like he never does it right. The Playmaker made MVP look stupid.
How the hell is he floundering exactly? This is all internet speculation, there is no proof to this at all. Punk and HHH have not had a single match as yet and already you think that the feud is floundering. Just how can you reach that conclusion, I would like to know?
He's floundering because he's doing the same thing over and over, the only difference between him and a guy like Primo is that he's more noticed. His angle isn't going anywhere other than I want change.
Punk may not be as hot as he was after his shoot promo but that does not mean that he is failing. Really, it is becoming increasingly apparent that you are just waiting to jump on his back.
Again with the projection and telling me my thoughts. Jump on his back, like you jumped on his dick? I said that I didn't think the guy was that good, this is an open forum and you are open to argue your counter point but all you've done is talk like he's your lover or something.
The way you have worded your posts make it very apparent that you have a wafer thin reasoning to your posts. You say Punk's finishers are unrealistic when similar finishers and sometimes even more ridiculous finishers have been executed by similarly built and on occasions smaller men and have gotten over. You say Punk cannot look good against Cena whereas he has already looked like gold against Cena. You have problems with him talking shit to HHH when numerous other wrestlers from different eras have done so in the past but you cheered them on for doing so. But when Punk has done it, it seems like blasphemy to you.
My reasoning is supertight, you just don't like it. The problems I have with him now are the same ones I've always had and, despite those problems, I always like him because I thought that straight edge was a good message to put out there and he was unique among the rest but he was never that good. I have problems with him talking about shit that is pretty much irrelevant and, if he's shooting for real, he's attacking Paul Levesque the man, not HHH the gimmick. I cheer for actual angles and gimmicks, not a guy that complains. Someone said it in a previous post on this thread, why do you think Shane Douglas never made it out of ECW?
You say that Punk has not made much impact by his bitching when he has forced the fucking chairman of the company to resign from his post. On top of all this you have made silly blanket statements as to how internet fans claim that Punk is the greatest mic worker of all time and how he is the next Austin when I have myself never heard any of this stuff. You have done all this just to make yourself seem smart and it is high time that someone called you out on your bullshit.
He didn't force Vince to resign, as I remember it, the board of directors sent HHH to tell him that he's been relieved of his duties as chairman. Sure I generalized the IWC because that's the general consensus, if it didn't apply to you then don't respond. I don't need to make myself seem smart to a bunch of people that I will never meet. I just wanted to state my opinion about your apparent boyfriend, you're the one that took such offense.
=There is nothing wrong with stating your opinion but you must learn to back it up as well.
I've backed up everything I've said, learned to listen to someone's response fully even if you don't like it.
