Here's My Thing With Chick Magnet Punk

Discussion in 'The Wrestling Archives' started by BillAlfonso, Sep 14, 2011.

  1. BillAlfonso

    BillAlfonso Getting Noticed By Management

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    It's not that I think he's bad at what he does, I think he's very good at what he does just not the best. To me, that rank goes to Kurt Angle until I can get a decent look at the guys at ROH. Anyway, I was a big fan of CM Punk and I think the Straight Edge lifestyle is the way to go but that's neither here nor there, hell, I thought that they completely missed the boat with Straight Edge Society and Punk has a legitimate gripe about that and maybe about the fact that some of his friends like Colt Cabana, Luke Gallows, and I guess Joey Matthews were unceremoniously drummed out of WWE but you don't see Bret talking about Harry Smith being fired and that's his nephew. Also, what about other people like Shelton Benjamin, MVP, or Mickie James who were doing well but got the axe, he doesn't take up for them.

    He gripes about being held back but isn't he a 5 time world champ and put in one of the biggest and best feuds in the last 5 years with Jeff Hardy who was at his peak of popularity? People say that it's because he was booked to look weak as champ but I don't that has to a lot with holding him down as opposed to other factors.

    1.) 2 of his reigns were won through Money in The Bank which always makes the guy look like a weak champion to me. The only guy that didn't look weak to me was RVD because he had a legit match to win it. Unless the guy goes on a tirade through the roster like Brock Lesnar or Goldberg for like 6 months to a year after cashing in, he won't look strong and that brings me to...

    2.) CM Punk's physicality and talent, I said before that Punk reminds me of a cross between HBK and Bret "The Hit Man" Hart without pulling the best from either superstar. What I mean is, Punk is a good technician but he's nowhere the level of The Hit Man plus he's not as big as Bret was. Bret was no John Cena in terms of strength himself but he was big and strong enough where you could believe that he could legitimately place someone like Diesel, Sycho Sid, or Vader in a hold long enough to make them tap after working on part of their body to weaken them first. Now, Punk being smaller that Bret wouldn't make me believe that Cena, HHH, or even R-Truth couldn't power out of the Anaconda Vise and don't get me started on Big Show, Kane, Undertaker, or Mark Henry. Also, Go To Sleep is one of the worse finishers I've ever seen in my life especially if he does it on a true heavyweight. In regards to HBK, neither of them are true heavyweights but Punk has nowhere the speed and quickness of HBK who simply ran circles around the heavyweight division which is why a lot of people regard him as the greatest ring worker of all time, I'm more partial to Ric Flair and Bret but to each their own.

    3.) Punk has been going against guys that he just wouldn't look that good against. Hell, his first defense was against JBL who had Punk outclassed in terms of physical power and experience despite Punk being an actual veteran but kayfabe very young and JBL already having experience was a World Champ, in fact, all of Punk's first defenses were against similar guys. Then he faced The Undertaker in one of his following runs and no one looks good against him never mind the backstage stuff that happened with him talking back to The Undertaker. On a sidenote, I would've backed Punk in that instance as I hate stuff like that but still, you've got to be a bit smarter in those situations.

    You add in a lot of those factors and of course he looks weak, they had no other choice but to book him that way. On the flip side, when they put him with Hardy, he looked stronger because they could make him look that way during their feud.

    Another thing I have is that he's not the greatest mic worker today, that honor went back to The Rock the moment he stepped back into the ring. Now, I wouldn't say that Punk isn't good it's just that people, mainly internet fans, are responding to him shooting but most of the audience doesn't know what he's talking about and his "witty" remarks mostly come against people who aren't going to respond. Think about it, he shoots so people on the internet are like "he's saying what we're saying" but we're not the only ones watching it and, since he's mostly shooting and working with bullet points instead of a script, he looks better and more natural than most of the roster who are acting and most of these guys are bad actors. When he cuts a promo against someone like HHH who hasn't really responded until recently, he looks like he has the advantage but what happens when they do respond? I'm hearing people say that HHH owned him, that may or may not be true but HHH closed the gap. I said it before, it's like that kid in high school that talks smack to the teacher who won't respond, the kid looks like he has the advantage over the teacher who would probably make him look and feel as small as he is. Hell, the only reason people seem to back him over The Rock is because it's suddenly the hip thing to do to diss The Rock, let's see what happens when The Rock gets in the ring and cuts a promo against him. He already crushed him on Twitter once.

    People try to compare him to Stone Cold, there is no comparison either than the "I've Been Held Back" gimmick. The difference is that Austin's gimmick was that he did something about it. He went out there and interfered with matches and jumped people in the main event until they had to put him there. Why? Because the top guys like Bret wanted to shut him up thus putting him the main event. Punk doesn't do that, he just complains and doesn't advance the angle he's working, the other guys like Cena and HHH do that for him

    The last thing but most important that gets me is his blatant disrespect for the men that helped the company he works for defeat WCW in The Rock and HHH. He calls The Rock "Dwayne" like it's a slur, it's the man's given name and he's in a different line of work. What's wrong with wanting to be called by your name especially when they still call him Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson most of the time anyway? I've said it before, The Rock is one of the top 3 reasons that the WWE exists today behind Austin and tied with Mr. McMahon. Also, if most of what Punk is now doing is shooting, I'd have beaten the fuck out of him by now if I was HHH for what he's been saying about me and my wife. So what, he married the bosses daughter? She was good looking, especially around '00-'01 and she was down. That's pretty much all I give a fuck about when I look for a woman, the bosses daughter thing was a plus and he would've done the same thing. Hell, HHH is one of the second three reasons that the company still exists with Foley and The Undertaker.

    That's really all I have to say about CM Punk, the guy is good but not that good. The majority of the internet likes him but I have a question, what's it going to take for you to turn on him like the internet turned on Randy Orton?
     
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  2. 1TheRockHHH

    1TheRockHHH Dark Match Winner

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    i agree with most of what you said especially the part where punk is disrespecting the rock and HHH.Who the hell does he think he is?Everytime punk takes a shot at the rock for leaving wwe and not showing up makes me want to kick his ass.The same with HHH if anything if it wasnt for guys like rock,hhh,stone cold,foley,taker, and even vince mcmahon the wwe wouldnt be where it is today.Punk is one ungrateful SOB

    Also i don't understand how people can compare punk to stone cold.Austin was the badass rebel "i dont give a damn and will kick your ass "guy.While punk is the whiny little bitch who wants change yet doesnt do nothing but complain
     
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  3. craftyjacket

    craftyjacket Dark Match Winner

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    all you look for in a woman is looks?

    what a shallow fuck you are.

    on topic, punk is really good, the angle sucks though. punk isn't really "shooting", or he wouldn't be owned by HHH on monday. He was because they fell on the trap of discussing topics they really couldn't discuss freely.
     
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  4. craftyjacket

    craftyjacket Dark Match Winner

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    that's because the change he wants is not kayfabe so there's nothing he can do about it in kayfabe. he can't have a segment in which he attacks the creative writers and then cuts a promo demanding that they push dolph ziggler or he will do it again.

    the right way to to the feud was punk really going after the status quo. the status quo is cena. he should be the target, and punk shouldn't rest until he got him off the throne. the problems are:

    - they don't want to turn cena heel
    - they want del rio to be the champion going into the mexico tour

    so, they stumbled on a golden angle but didn't have the guts to pull the trigger and actually shake things up. their priorities are still the same, they just gave punk some space, but really nowhere to go.

    while people applauded them for letting punk "shoot" like that, they're still being as conservative as they could be. If they weren't punk wouldn't have been feuding with babyfaces for 2 months. totally ruins the dynamics of the feud.

    the only hope i still have is that this somehow leads to the Kings of Wrestling debuting.
     
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  5. frostbite2819

    frostbite2819 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Duzwm9GWSN8

    punk can do commentary, and work a promo like no ones business, WITHOUT having to rely on overused catchphrases.
    honestly i am getting a little tired of the guy, but its only because i want him to stop shooting so much and work a 'regular' storyline, as it were, but i cannot honestly believe he is not the top mic worker in the industry right now.
    i do kinda agree about the pissing and moaning, at some point you run out of things to 'shoot' about (see shane douglas, scott steiner) and at the end of the day you still gotta wrestle and put on a good show.
    but its all just storyline people. wwe wants the people that boo cena to cheer punk,
    and wwe wants the people that cheer cena to boo punk, thats why he is booked this way.
     
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  6. ZUMBOdriver

    ZUMBOdriver Occasional Pre-Show

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    There is very little substance in the OP for being so long. What was the point of it all? That you think Punk is good but not that good? I've read some variation of that point on these boards a bunch already. I don't know, maybe I'm missing the point. Also, I'm not trying to say you're wrong on what you're saying or anything like that, but the OP just kind of rambles without giving a solid direction to take this discussion.

    The fact of the matter is this. Punk has been the most entertaining guy on WWE television the past few months. Simple as that. Cena, HHH, and even Big Sexy all have played a big part in helping Punk be that guy, but the fact remains that Punk's programs have been the most entertaining in recent months. Also, I can't argue with the fact that all this back and forth banter is getting a bit repetitive. Thank god the PPV is this Sunday. But let me say, despite it becoming repetitive, it has still been the most entertaining thing on WWE television. Also let me say, HHH was sounding just as repetitive as Punk was. HHH even alluded to it in the "debate" last night when he said something to the tune of, "we're just going in circles" before moving the segment to its conclusion. Fans seem to be growing tired with all this talk just in time for them to order the PPV on Sunday to watch what will be a great wrestling match between Trips and Punk. Supposedly WWE doesn't stand for World WRESTLING Entertainment anymore....HA! To me, it seems like fans have had enough of the jibber jabber and are ready to be entertained by a great wrestling match.
     
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  7. TUFFY54

    TUFFY54 Getting Noticed By Management

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    I agree with most of what you said. Call me crazy, but I just don't like CM Punk. People claim he is amazing on the mike, but all he does is bitch. As far as the Austin comparison, he doesn't deserve to lace his boots. Could you imagine Austin coming out and saying "this isn't fair, nobody is nice to me, why didn't you give me a chance". Hell fucking no.

    Punk claims to be the best in the world. He doesn't really have a lot of competition does he. HBK, Jericho, and Edge are retired. I'd put all three above Punk. Batista was a bigger drawn and he's gone. Triple H, Rock, and Taker all blow him away, but there part time performers. Punk claiming to be the best in the world is like someone claiming to be the best wrestler in WCW on their final Nitro. A few years ago he wasn't anywhere near the top of the food chain when the real talent was around.

    If you look through the bullshit, Punk isn't a great talker. Hogan, Austin, Rock, Flair, Mick Foley, Jericho, HBK, and Triple H got the crowd into a frenzy by talking about storylines. They talked about kayfab things that were actually happening in the ring. Punk can't get over without "shooting" on backstage shit, and complaining about not being given a chance. (Despite 5 world championships, 2 money in the banks, and numerous midcard belts). He's so predictable it's painful. You know what he's going to say before he even gets to the ring.

    -"You married the bosses daughter"

    -"Nobody thought I was good enough"

    -"I'm more important than (insert older wrestler)"

    -"At least I didn't have a bad gimmick"

    -"I do whatever I want"

    -"I'm the best"

    That's every promo he's done. He's a broken record.

    CM PUNK IS A PARODY OF A REBEL.
     
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  8. Scorpion Eye

    Scorpion Eye Simply Ravishing

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    Here are my thoughts on CM Punk:

    First off unlike most people i don't feel like this storyline is starting to drag. Why? Cuz over the past couple weeks now a key transformation has been happening before our eyes, the return of "The Cerebal Assassin". Last night and also at the contract signing on SMACKDOWN, HHH has started to go back to being the "tough ass" instead of the DX comedic role we have been forced to deal with for the past couple of years. Remember what Punk said, he wanted to face "The Cerebal Assassin" not the COO and he has brought that side back out of HHH.

    Something huge is deff going to happen during their match at Night of Champions. Wouldn't be surpised if HHH has some "backup" especially since Punk hit him over the head with the mic. A lot of people are so quick to right this whole thing off. It's just getting started and will only get better.
     
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  9. ZUMBOdriver

    ZUMBOdriver Occasional Pre-Show

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    This is a direct quote from Punk on Mark Madden's radio show about a month ago. "I am certainly not trying to fill Stone Cold Steve Austin's shoes, or anything like that. People who say that are missing the point." I don't understand the resentment towards Punk for certain people's opinion. Punk doesn't want to be the next Stone Cold, so I don't understand the hate towards Punk for that reason.

    Looks like Punk is being turned on right now reading these posts.
     
    #9
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  10. SyndicateSaint

    SyndicateSaint Occasional Pre-Show

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    I just want to chime in and say MVP quit...he didn't get axed. He asked for his release and got it.

    As for Punk, I don't think there is maybe 5 guys who I like in WWE at the moment, and I'm a life long fan of wrestling. I guess that's the problem. I enjoy wrestling. There are a few great talents in that right, and I think Punk has to be near or at the top of the list. As for him sounding like a repeating record, isn't that how MOST of the top guys have always sounded? Austin: Hell Yeah!, What?, Mudhole, Can of Whupass...Rock: Candyass, Jabroni, Monkey Crap, IT DOESN'T MATTER!....Bret Hart: Best there is, Screwed...Hogan: Brother, Where the power lies, whatchagunnado?, Well ya know.... Even now, you have Del Rio: Destiny, Miz: Awesome!, R-Truth: Little Jimmy....it's all the same. I just think that Punk does it in a more interesting way. But then again, I don't normally watch wrestling for storylines. I guess that makes me a minority.
     
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  11. craftyjacket

    craftyjacket Dark Match Winner

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    No dude. Punk is a rebel character scripted like a whinner, cause just like someone above said, they don't want to go all-in on him. they want the ppl who cheer cena to still boo punk.

    now, you have hogan as your signature. anyone in this era who still marks out for hogan is clearly biased when looking at real modern talent.

    you say punk can't drive a storyline and only does good mic work when allowed to shoot? Really? I could say that over the years, Triple H used the advantage of being above everyone to improve people's perception of his mic work by being allowed to bury people.

    did you happen to watch the jeff hardy vs punk feud?
    rey mysterio vs punk?
    punk with a microphone mid royal rumble?
    you tell me those promos weren't amazing?

    their top babyface calls people "a human jar of mayonese" and writes "JBL is poopy" in their cars. No one in that company, not even the Rock is as good on the mic as Punk and Jericho. Those are the modern day standards when it comes to mic work.

    Was the rock good? Yeah, but i mean, at the time, there was a real character, Stone Cold Steve Austin, who was actually the face of the company. Rock is a cartoon character. He came back exactly the same, he's a freaking nostalgia act. It's not like he couldn't have reinvented himself a little bit. His shtick is old and repetitive. And the way he talks borderline screaming. He's one dimensional.

    Steve Austin,on the other hand, every time he comes back he does an amazing job. He has a real character, truly entertaining because it isn't constrained by pre-determined shenenigans.
     
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  12. BillAlfonso

    BillAlfonso Getting Noticed By Management

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    We know it's scripted and you know it's scripted because you're on this site with us and that means that you know that we know it's scripted. And you know that what we're talking about is his part in this scripted performance because of that so you sound stupid for bitching at us for bitching at a scripted performance now don't you?

    First off, and really want an answer to this, would you date an unattractive woman? Second, attractiveness is relative, I've met big girls that could get the strudel because they're so cool but I've met women that most would call attractive that I wouldn't touch with X-Pac's dick because she's either a ****e or a bitch. Like if what they say about Kelly Kelly getting around is true, Justin Gabriel can keep her. If Maryse really acts the same as her gimmick, our interactions would probably end with a hearty "Well, fuck you too then, bitch!" Third, I also said that she was down for him, that could mean a lot of things. You can PM me your answer if you want for the sake of keeping the thread clean.

    Are they really that good? I saw a clip of them on youtube taking on The World's greatest tag team and it looked phenomenal. I thought they should've done a stable with Punk, Daniel Bryan, Kaval, and Seth Rollins but alas.

    Sorry for taking this out of context but I wanted to point this out. Everyone uses catchprases, it's similar to signature moves. It's how you know who the person they're talking about is when the conversation is brought up, all the greats have catchphrases and it's probably why most of the guys today are so lackluster. They have nothing to remember them by.

    That's the thing, Austin was able to take the "I've Been Held Back" schtick and worked it into a gimmick and angle starting in ECW and then in the then WWF.

    The point is that a lot of Punks alleged greatness is pretty much a boat of very goodness in a sea of mediocrity. He's not that good and I don't understand the love that he's getting to the degree he's getting it.

    Jibber jabber? I think me and you can be friends.

    I'm don't hate him and certainly not for that, there's a lot worse gimmicks he could copy than Austin's and I didn't say he was trying to be Austin. I said people are comparing him to Austin and there's really no comparison

    Fast too, wasn't it?

    Okay, you got me with MVP, I got lazy with that one but the point still remains.

    You and I are similar, I miss pro wrestling too. Cut your own promos and work the match yourself to the finish that one booker gave. Elegance in simplicity.

    You had me until you said that Jericho and Punk were better than The Rock at cutting promos and said that The Rock is a cartoon character. Stone Cold wasn't? He openly attacked his boss every week and got arrested just about every week and never saw any jail time. This is pro wrestling/sports entertainment, the performers are supposed to be larger than life, this is why it sucks today. If you want reality, watch UFC which isn't as real as you think it is because, if it was, Dana White wouldn't have such an issue with guys like Kimbo Slice and Bobby Lashley trying to get in. He'd just let them in and wash out if they really weren't that good.

    The difference between when Austin comes back and The Rock now coming back is that Austin is coming back as Steve Austin the man to promote whatever movie he's doing himself(everyone overlooks that) as opposed to The Rock who is coming back as his gimmick because he's going to be working(while never promoting "Fast Five" himself) whereas Austin isn't. If Austin came back to work either in or out of the ring, you can bet he's going to start spewing his old gimmick because it's his gimmick just like in the 2000s up until his Hall of Fame Induction.

    Also, The Rock is way better than Jericho and Punk at cutting promos. Jericho, for as great as he is, really just comes out and berates the crowd with his $.25 words, you magnanimous hypocrite ripe with the nepotism abound within CM Punk's obsequious legion(just kidding, always wanted to do that). You know who did the big words thing before him? The Loose Cannon Brian Pillman, know who did it before Jericho? Jake The Snake. People say that The Rock uses catchphrases all the time, what about the fact that he makes a new catchphrase just about every other week which is impressive in it's own right since he was thinking them up on the spot? Also, wasn't it just little while ago that CM Punk would just say that "I'm Straight Edge and that means I'm better than you?" Sounds like a catchphrase to me. What about "one nation under Punk with Straight Edge and sobriety for all?" Now he's shooting primarily which doesn't allow for the use of catchphrases because that would signify that he's not shooting. Put The Rock in the Ring with Punk or Jericho today and he will make them look stupid, the only reason he never made Austin look stupid is because Austin's gimmick was never about being smart just tough which made The Rock change his delivery to "I Can Whup Austin's Ass." Look at that promo they cut when they were singing. It was serious as shit for both of them until Austin started the comedy bit he was doing at the time and The Rock instantly followed and the whole segment was gold. He was diverse as shit for that segment from as serious as Austin to as funny as Austin. The guys today couldn't do that.
     
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  13. Kizzani

    Kizzani Getting Noticed By Management

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    First I want to touch on this quote, this guy wants to call people shallow, when you LOOK ( this is with your eyes) You see beauty, and everyone is different. However with that said no one walks into a room and looks around and finds the fattest, fugliest girl and says " I am going to pick that chick up" If you or ANYONE did that then No one would need a wing man the wildebeest would be out the picture. So in short your full of sh*t

    Now CM Punk He gets owned by HHH because his crap is old, I was held down, I was given the chance, I was left behind. I want change ( well as long as it revolves around me) Punk complains about everything except getting beat for the world title while he was knocked out. Everything is wrong with the WWE, once he starts getting owned on the Mic he jumps back to something else...they are chanting my name See...Ice cream bars....see. Please 2 weeks in a row he makes no sense. A list of wrestler don't have a body builder look and they held the title. Kevin Nash never changes well except the 10+ different character he played. But CM punk changes? What has he changed? CM punk since he started, Music now from when he was in ROH, same hair same Straight edge gay style.

    Ends like this CM Punk is that B*tch we all work with that, thinks he works harder than everyone else and always gets passed over for the promotion, that guy and CM punk need to realize may they just aren't as good as their mind sees them as.
     
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  14. steveom07

    steveom07 Occasional Pre-Show

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    Im sick of people saying that CM Punk is saying things that most of the crowd dont understand. You say that yet if it were the case then why does the crowd pop big when he comes out with these remarks.

    Tell me 1 remark CM Punk has said that is about either backstage or the business in general that the crowd didnt understand????

    In this day and age the internet is used by EVERYONE, you might say the kids dont come on wrestling forums or whatever, but they dont need to to understand what is being said. For example if it means that a few people leave maybe not knowing who John Laurenitus is (when he was first mentioned in the shoot), you can bet your bottom dollar they will go and look it up.
     
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  15. drk_knight

    drk_knight Dark Match Winner

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    Wow, hater much?
    When you said that Punk isnt believable in the ring and cant kick a big guys ass proved how dumb you are. Hes a trained muai thai kick boxer. You understand what that is? Its REAL FIGHTING. Nothing on past wrestlers, but Punk's moveset is way more realistic than most there submissions and grapples. He will kick your f*cking head off.

    Its soo idiotic to think that wrestlers who gym it every day and take steriods can kick more ass than a cut up, muai thai kickboxer named CM Punk.

    You people probably havnt watched the UFC
     
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  16. Azane

    Azane Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    It's funny how people believe he's shooting

    This is Vince Russo style "worked shoot" booking.
    CM is reading a script, the kayfabe breaking he's doing is scripted to make you think he's being edgy and shattering it when in reality, he's just doing a wrestling promo.

    Punk is super believable on the mic, everything he says sounds like it's from his heart, and you can tell he has a great passion for the company. He can be serious, comical, heel, face, tweener, all find and dandy. I like Y2J more on the mic, but I'd put punk in my top 5 or 10.

    And I can't fault the man on his gimmick, all the Breaking Kayfabe angle isn't Punk's doing, it's the company, writers and execs.

    The best way to evaluate a performer from the business perspective is drawing power. Do you think he draws money and puts butts in the seats? I definitely think there's people who pay to see Punk, in ring or on mic. I don't know how large that fanbase is or how much merchandise he pushes, but I think he could be the face of the company, but obviously Cena and Orton are ahead of him in that respect.


    Not to mention CM Punk is popular now, time for the hipstercrites to tell us how bad Punk is because he's being shoved down our throats, like Cena and Orton, who were internet favorites before they got popular.
     
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  17. giblet55

    giblet55 Occasional Pre-Show

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    This isn't me being against Punk, but some of his current success has to be attributed to the diminishing pg era. I'm not saying it's going away completely, but John Cena and the Rock slowly began to bring back a little risk with foul language on air. Now, had we been in the heart of the pg era, you would have never seen Punk shoot, or McMahon refer to Punk by his real name, or Triple H and himself for that matter. You also would never hear the mention of released talent on air...The ability to be risky and being allowed to do so by the WWE has allowed Punk to be more captivating.

    Hell, the mention of released talent surprised me, because that is something they never do. The lines of reality and television are blurred right now and that is what makes this situation so interesting...but...as time proves, as this thread proves, fans are desensitized and once they are used to something it's no longer entertaining. The long pg era allowed for this angle to be so interesting. Is this were the attitude era, it would have been lost in the shuffle.

    One thing though, I think Punk's point when most of you call him a whiny bitch, is that he had to scrape and claw to achieve any amount of success when others have just been handed it and others get released when they have the potential to help the company. He mentioned how he went from main eventing a show to a dark match the next night in an interview and how the WWE does a lot of start stop situations. This week they like dolph ziggler so he gets pushed, next week they don't, so they push R-Truth, then they change their mind again and bring out Morrison. I think he, in reality, just wants consistency and people that deserve chances, to have them. He's said more than once in an interview that he feels responsible for those who can't say what he does, and that he has a job to do in protecting them in a sense(he said something to this affect, I can't remember his exact words).

    So I don't really see him as a whiny bitch, maybe a bit on air in the heel sense, but it seems in reality he wants wrestling back, real talent, chances people deserve, consistency, and story lines and story telling that makes sense.
     
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  18. SomeAreSet

    SomeAreSet Embracing The Hate

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    Oh god,I expected this day to come,but I didn't expect this day to come before Night Of Champions.

    Look,Punk's probably the best promo guy they have in the business,not counting angry/passionate John Cena (angry/passionate John Cena is one charismatic sonofabitch).He's getting over partly because he's charismatic and partly because he's saying/doing things wrestlers usually aren't allowed to say or do,for example,talking about what goes on backstage and disrespecting your boss.People like rebels.They latch onto them because they are uninhibited and the people live vicariously through them.It's quite unhealthy,but it is what it is.

    Having said that,Punk may have shot himself in the foot with his promos which may cause his fire to sizzle out.Allow me to explain.Now,Punk's come out and said that he's the voice of the voiceless,how he's the best in the world and how he wants change in the WWE.Now,from weeks of watching Raw,I've heard him go on a tirade about how his buddies Luke Gallows and Colt Cabana were fired when they could have given so much to the company.He also talked about Harry "David Hart" Smith and Chris Masters,but I believe those firings coincided with his angle which was why he talked about it.He talked about nepotism in the company.He talked about how he was being constantly looked over and how there are no magazine covers and collector's cups with his face on them.He wanted the WWE ice-cream bars back with his face on them.He wanted a private jet.He wanted this,he wanted that.CM Punk wanted a lot of things.Oh,and he also wanted Vince to apologise to the WWE fans.He got Vince fired because he didn't like him and he's trying to get Triple H to resign as COO because he doesn't like him either.If Punk gets his way,I'll assume he'll pick someone HE likes to be the new COO.If not,then Punk will continue getting people fired.

    If you haven't gotten my point yet,here it is: Punk wants change,but he wants change the way politicians on TV want change in America,by cutting down the people he doesn't like and doing things he likes,regardless of the consequences.Punk wants to be the number 1 guy in the WWE.He wants his buddies to be in the company or better yet,in the main event because he believes that his buddies are worthy to be in the main event.Punk hasn't said a word about how guys like Justin Gabriel and Daniel Bryan are underused and being looked over,most likely because they're not his buddies.He did talk about the Internet darling Zack Ryder,but I don't think Punk's ever done anything with Ryder apart from that one reference at Comic-Con (Cena appeared on TV with Ryder like 4-5 times and nobody ever said shit.)Like he said,he doesn't like a lot of the people in the back.Punk has talked about how bigger guys have constantly stepped over smaller guys to get to the top,and yet just 9 months ago Punk took over Nexus and threw Wade Barrett and the original Nexus members out of the group.It's kayfabe,yes,but it's still pretty hypocritical.The fact that Punk's complaining about how Gallows and Cabana aren't in the company when hundreds of other similarly if not more talented wrestlers are out there...it just reeks of the Kliq.It's funny how he's standing up against Triple H and the "status quo" because it seems like Punk's been on course to imitate everything Triple H has done.He's not a rebel nor a revolutionary.He's been using the "change is good for all of us" line to try to get his way.He's really just a greasy-haired politician in a t-shirt and shorts.He's starting to look more and more like one every week. "Listen to the people!" "I am the voice of the voiceless!" "I'm here to shake things up!" Hell,in the showdown with Triple H,every time Triple H gave a straight answer to Punk which didn't suit his liking,he talked about something else instead.That's Politics 101.

    Anyway,I like Punk,I like his look,his moves and his promos.I'm not sick of him yet although I keep seeing the flaw in his argument.He's entertaining and I hope his star continues to shine bright.He can easily be one of the top stars of the WWE.Cena,Orton,Punk,the Big 3.That is what Punk wants,isn't it?
     
    #18
  19. frostbite2819

    frostbite2819 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    here's MY thing:
    it happened with orton before this, cena before that, hhh before cena, hbk before hhh.
    hell, hbk even talked about it in his book heartbreak and triumph;
    there is just a certain portion of the fanbase that wants you on the top, and clamors for it incessantly, but once you get there, they turn on you.
    it does not matter what you do, because the cynic's and negative nancy's will find SOMETHING wrong with you and just tear you to pieces. no one is perfect so it will always be this way, finding the negative aspects of ones character and shining a light on it.
    and thats ok. some people just want an underdog to root for, and a guy who gets 20 minutes of promo time every RAW is clearly not an underdog.
    as much as i like punk and anticipate his promos, he is walking a fine line right now with the IWC, yes, including me.
    its just hard to keep saying 'im the little guy, the underdog, the overlooked' when you get more face time on every RAW than even cena or orton for the most part.
    (this is why he needs to stop relying on shooting and just use his talents to be the best WRESTLER)
    thats why i can understand why people are 'turning' on him, as it were, however i am just not on that boat. i am enjoying his time on top he is not letting me down one bit.

    let this thing play out people, i just know in the back of my mind that punk, mcmahon, and trips are just laughing it up every week because they are working us so hard, and getting the IWC into a frenzy every week, and i truly believe that punk will in the end be the one turning heel out of all this, he is such a natural heel and much better at it than a face, so then the kids will start booing him again, so 'we' can start liking him again, and all will be back to normal.
     
    #19
  20. K Bro 30

    K Bro 30 Occasional Pre-Show

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    My problem with Punk is he is a whiner. Whether it's the CM Punk character or Phil Brooks himself, all he does is complain. Guys like Hogan, Cena, Rock, whoever he bitches about made it to superstardom. They did it without getting on a microphone and whining about how they and their friends were treated. Punk was a champion before his "shoot," and that shoot did nothing to advance the business. He almost proved that internet fans aren't truly relevant. His matches drew more excitement than before, but not more viewers. Just the people that were watching were more excited, I don't think any new people were watching.

    He wants his own private jet whereas guys like Rock and Hogan earned that luxury by being icons. Shawn Michaels earned that luxury by being an icon. CM Punk was a multiple-time champion before, was never really over. Yet he's going to continue to wine even though he has 2 victories out of his and Cena's 3 recent matches. CM Punk is "the man" on the show, and Raw draws a 2.7. He is no sort of revolutionary in my opinion, he's just bitter that he and his friends are not as good as others.
     
    #20
  21. K Bro 30

    K Bro 30 Occasional Pre-Show

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    I love how internet fans hate Hogan, when the fact is that he is the most successful wrestler ever. Just wanted to throw it out there that if not for Hogan, we probably don't have a WWE on this level to even discuss.

    But to your point about how Punk and Jericho are the standards of "modern day" mic work...can we review for a second? The Rock and Stone Cold were the standards when Raw was receiving ratings in the 6-7+ range. Jericho and Punk are the standard for the 3.3 ratings? The problem with what appear to be your modern day standards is that those standards call for the business to regress. When Punk (or Cena/Orton/anyone else for that matter) can truly revolutionize the business like Hogan, Rock, or Austin did, then someone can say that they are truly better.

    The bottom line is this, Hogan was a worldwide icon who was a part of both the 80's surge and Monday Night Wars. The Rock and Austin were the Attitude Era during that same time frame. For anyone to say Punk is better is clearly forgetting that wrestling is a business. When he can create new fans, I'll believe he is as great as people here make him out to be.
     
    #21
  22. RD_21

    RD_21 Getting Noticed By Management

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    To the TC lately it's the cool thing to do, 50% of the topic are either I don't like Cena, I like Cena, I don't like Punk, I like Punk. Whether you like Punk or not I couldn't care less and you shouldn't care that I like him either. To ME, he is the BEST in the business because he is the ONLY reason I am watching WWE.

    I am not a train hoper either, I was watching ECW when he was there for christ sake. When he was doing the SES gimmick I was watching his segments on Smackdown all the time (I almost never watch Smackdown!) he was PURE GOLD on the mic. And don't even get me started on when he was on commentary, he was awesome. You guys are seeing him as a whiner and that's good for you, I am seeing him as a guy with no shackles that speak his mind.

    Say what you want about him not being hold down, but when you lose your belt because someone ask you why you are not in a suit and you reply what about John Cena casually and that the so called locker room leader see that as you thinking that you are on the same level as Cena so they cry to management to get the title stripped from you, that's injustice.

    You see, Cena doesn't appealed to me but I won't start thread about it, I will poip up in a thread or two to defend an op or give my opinion, but I don't have to like him and me not liking him doesn't prevent you from liking him.

    For me, Punk is appealing to me, I relate to him and to me he is the most interesting thing in the business (on the mic and in the ring), but you don't have to think that way. I am not saying that you shouldn't not make this topic as you have every right to not like him. But I don't like when someone is trying to convince me that I am wrong because I like him or that I am some sort of small anormal minority.

    Your post is coming off like you are holding the holy grail and that we are all wrong for liking him, you are seeing things that I don't see and it's ok. I don't mind him when he dishes the Rock because he is right, same for HHH. It's not disrespect, he is asked to say that.

    To me it seems like you try to pass your opinions as fact, saying only minority likes him, that he is not good on the mic and that it's obvious and other things like that. You don't have to like him but don't try to tell me I am wrong for liking him, that's all.


    By your logic, Cena is not a top man either he is failing to bring in new viewers...
     
    #22
  23. Skinsley

    Skinsley Knows his role. Shuts your mouth!

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    MVP and Mickie James both left on their own accord, they were not given the axe.

    Its origonal, and his real finisher Pepsi Plunge is ither too similar to HHH's pedigree or too dangerouse for WWE

    When did that happen? He has been and he is gonne again until he can be bothered. The Rock will return for a few months and then fuck off again. He no longer has the right to hold a title of the best "something" in the WWE. Because he is no longer in the WWE he is a Cameo appearance.

    Once Rock is finished with Cena.... he most likely wont start making an Enemy in someone else in the WWE....that would give him an excuse to stick around a bit longer.

    WWE bought out WCW and only gave contracts to a set few WCW stars....and then booked the storyline so that WWE would come out on top. They did not really "Defeat" WCW. Vince Russo balls'd up the ratings.

    The last few films such as "Fast5" and "Faster" which I have seen featuring the rock.....he is no longer refered too as Dwayne "the rock" Johnson....just Dwayne Johnson

    The Rock is TIED with Vince Mcmahon for the reason WWE still exists today....are you ******ed ?

    All that being said. Your thread makes no sense whatsoever.....youve had a little rant full of bullshit and then decided to throw in a random barely related question to make the post legal. You need to understand that times have changed and CM Punks character is different from Austins.
    CM punk cant go around interfearing in matches just to get himself noticed and in the main event like Austin did. Thats not his character.
    CM Punk has a match with HHH at Night Of Champions and although it isnt title match its considered to be the main event because weather you love or hate the promos or want CM Punk to win or HHH to win, you still want to see the match or find out who wins and how.

    What would it take for people to turn against him like they did Randy Orton. Thats simple, become the opposite of what he is fighting against and that is become Randy Orton or John Cena.

    John Cena was popular until he became the face of the company, half the wrestling community split off and loved him and the other half split off and hate him.
    Randy Orton was popular until he became Smackdowns sweetheart...well The Viper! and the same thing happened.
    Now CMpunk has the same thing, the people that hate on Cena and Orton Love punk.....the majority of people that love Cena and Orton Hate Punk.
     
    #23
  24. K Bro 30

    K Bro 30 Occasional Pre-Show

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    I mean, he gets accused because only girls and kids like him, yet there weren't too many girls and kids watching the product when the PG-Era started. Cena brought in new viewers, but also cost the product many viewers. IMO, Cena's not a top level performer either, but he's the best the company has. I equate WWE right now to the 49ers in football. They have decent talent at a lot of positions, but they don't have a superstar in the position they need one. So as a result they're not going to be the worst product in the world, but they won't be as good as they once were.

    I'd love to see wrestling back to huge ratings and being successful again. Punk and Cena both in their current directions will not do that.
     
    #24
  25. SimbaTGO

    SimbaTGO New Member

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    I think that CM Punk is doing great, and that his approach of change is necessary. What annoys me is that HHH is looking for cheap arguments to distract from constructive critics made by CM Punk.
    HHH is acting as criticism is not wished in the WWE, he is acting as if CM Punk is whining etc. without realising the potential of CM Punk (kayfabe or not).

    It is an insult to the wwe universe what HHH is doing, especially the try to distract from the intention of CM Punk.
     
    #25

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