Gold Medal Ironman Match - Shawn Michaels (USA) vs Chris Benoit (CAN)

Discussion in 'Wrestlezolympics '10' started by IrishCanadian25, Feb 13, 2010.

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Gold Medal Ironman - Shawn Michaels (USA) vs Chris Benoit (CAN)

  1. Shawn Michaels

  2. Chris Benoit

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  1. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    [​IMG]
    GOLD MEDAL MATCH

    Shawn Michaels(USA)
    [​IMG]

    vs

    Chris Benoit (CAN)

    [​IMG]

    This is the GOLD MEDAL MATCH in the 2010 Wrestlezolympics. This match will be contested under Ironman Match Rules, and is a ONE-HOUR IRONMAN MATCH! The wrestler with the most pinfalls / submissions / count-out / DQ victories in the course of 60-minutes will be declared the winner.

    The winner of this match will win the Gold Medal in the Ironman Event. The loser will be awarded the Silver.

    The match will open for discussion on Saturday, February 13th and voting will begin on Sunday, February 14th. This is a non-spam thread, so if you decide to post, you must provide reasons why you are backing a particular wrestler. You may vote without posting.

     
    #1
  2. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    Shawn. The very first thought that came to my head here is Benoit will not beat Shawn in the end. he might go ahead, he might even dominate most of the match, but Benoit will lose in the end. Benoit is a guy that manages to get closer than anyone else but never being able to win the big one (other than one time). Shawn is at his best on the big stage, and this certainly would be one of those. Shawn wins, but he can barely move afterwards.
     
    #2
  3. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    I have to wonder two things:

    1) Shawn had a WAR with Kobashi, that he narrowly escaped, and then eeked by Rocky Maivia.

    2) Benoit beat Pat O'Connor pretty handilly, and then dispatched El Santo.

    Seems Shawn has had a tougher road and may be more fatigued. He only gets 48 hours between matches.

    Also, the Wrestlezolympics do take place IN CANADA, where Shawn is hated and Benoit was one revered. Will home-field make a difference?
     
    #3
  4. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    Regarding the Canada thing, I'd point out Survivor Series 97. All shenanigans aside, Shawn was booked over Bret Hart, who is light years ahead of Benoit in national importance. Also, yeah Benoit had an easier route, but he was still going for the same amount of time. It's not like he was doing nothing at all. Shawn will be in a coma after it, but he'll win.
     
    #4
  5. Mr. TM

    Mr. TM Throwing a tantrum

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    Point 1.

    Both men are perfect in Iron Man Matches. There are major differences. This is a 60 man Iron Match. In Benoit's two iron man matches, one was a 60 man Iron Match. He was able to get two pinfalls in that match. Shawn Michaels was able to get 0 in his. Furthermore, In his other Iron man match, He was able to get 4 wins in just over 30 minutes. I feel Shawn Michaels might not be able to get a pinfall in the alloted time, while Benoit could.
     
    #5
  6. Барбоса

    Барбоса doesn't know REAL wrestling...

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    I too had wondered about homefield advantage for Benoit.

    However, I also think that Sweet Chin Music is the perfect kind of move for an Ironman match. Quick, sudden and deadly. An instant fall should HBK land it. Benoit lacks anything even remotely similar.

    To my mind, Michaels also has the more pronounced mean streak that would allow him to use underhand tactics such as lowblows and eye gouges or to accept a DQ for the chance to blast Benoit over the head with a chair.
     
    #6
  7. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    The Crippler Crossface is pretty sudden, and since Shawn isn't the type to give up a fall via submission easilly, it's safe to say that if Benoit uses the Crossface early, Shawn will have some lasting damage done to his arm and neck.

    And are you reallyquestioning Benoit's mean streak? Let's try not to go there...
     
    #7
  8. Барбоса

    Барбоса doesn't know REAL wrestling...

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    I would say that Benoit is a lot more aggressive than HBK but for me HBK has a mean streak in the mould of Ric Flair - fighting dirty
     
    #8
  9. TheOneBigWill

    TheOneBigWill [This Space for Rent]

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    By the one time, do you mean Wrestlemania XX - the "Greatest Stage of Them All?" or do you mean Backlash, the following Pay per view, where the exact same match happened. Because either way, Benoit won. Shawn Michaels didn't.

    I think people have held onto the whole "Benoit can't win the big one" thing a bit too long. He's won at Wrestlemania. He's won in the Main Event of Wrestlemania. He's defeated Triple H and Shawn Michaels, back-to-back and in single's matches. He's defeated Triple H in an Iron Man match.

    Finally, hes undefeated in Iron Man matches. And by undefeated, I mean he's won both. Not won one and tied in the other. So I'm quite sure Chris Benoit can not just handle his own against Shawn Michaels, but he can "win another big one."

    You say he's at his best on the big stage, but being at your best doesn't mean you're leaving with a victory. He's lost more Wrestlemania matches than he's won. But more so, lets look closer at these wins and losses, shall we? (I'll only keep in his single's matches, and discount the tag ones - since this isn't a tag match, and he wasn't exactly a star in the Rockers.)

    Wins:

    1. Wrestlemania VIII: Tito Santana: This match was defining for Shawn's singles career, and Tito was an above average single's, mid-card, Wrestler.. about 3 years prior to this match. So while it was a defining moment in HBK's beginning singles career - it was hardly a challenge.

    2. Wrestlemania XII: Bret Hart: This, to me, was his greatest victory and to add onto it, it was an Iron Man match. That adds more value in comparison to what we're discussing here. But there was a slight problem with this situation..

    Shawn had to go to Overtime, in One Hour, to get a victory. 30 minutes and no pinfalls or scores I can understand - but a full hour? If Shawn Michaels is as great as he's foreseen then he is should be able to capitalize on an older, slower Hitman within an hour.

    3. Wrestlemania XIX: Chris Jericho: In his return to Wrestlemania, he defeated the wannabe Shawn Michaels. It was a great match, but this was more of a re-defining moment for Shawn's resurgence of his career.

    4. Wrestlemania XXII: Vince McMahon: Do I even have to? Lets just say, if he would've lost to McMahon.. then there shouldn't even be a discussion on whether he deserves to win against Benoit.

    5. Wrestlemania XXIV: Ric Flair: Flair was retiring and in a relative "no-win" situation. While I'm sure he could have, the fact remains a 50 year old man took Shawn Michaels to his very limits. Benoit isn't 50, and knows how to do more damage than Flair.

    Losses:

    1. Wrestlemania IX: Tatanka: Albeit a countout victory, the fact that Shawn Michaels couldn't put away Tatanka, is shameful. What the hell did Tatanka ever even do? An undefeated streak? Sure.. but everyone starts out with one more or less.

    2. Wrestlemania X: Razor Ramon: Shawn's first "big moment" in Wrestlemania history.. and he chokes/loses. Nothing more needs to be said.

    3. Wrestlemania XI: Diesel: Shawn's first "Main Event moment" in Wrestlemania history.. and he chokes/loses. Nothing more needs to be said.

    4. Wrestlemania XIV: Steve Austin: This one I'll be willing to forget, considering HBK fucking tore his back up and still went out to put Austin over. But a loss is a loss, and thats the overall point.

    5. Wrestlemania XX: Chris Benoit: The shear fact that Benoit holds a victory over Shawn Michaels in a match, on the greatest stage of them all, speaks volumes for your theory that HBK > Benoit in big stage moments.

    6. Wrestlemania XXI: Kurt Angle: Benoit and Angle are very similar in styles and technical abilities. Angle tore Shawn apart, and at the end of the match Michaels was lucky to have only lost.

    7. Wrestlemania XXIII: John Cena: Cena was the bigger name, and Shawn couldn't out-do that in another big moment loss.

    8. Wrestlemania XXV: The Undertaker: See Cena reference.

    On the otherhand.. Shawn loses.. and should lose, by a large number.
     
    #9
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  10. Mr. TM

    Mr. TM Throwing a tantrum

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    another point

    Shawn Michaels will be the heel in this match. Being that it is in Canada, against a man who was hardly ever a heel, Shawn Michaels has that task. In a match this frustrating for Shawn, he is going to lose his smile. And when Shawn loses his smile, he makes mistakes. He did against Angle at Wrestlemania, he did against Undertaker at Wrestlemania, and he will against Benoit here.
     
    #10
  11. LascoX

    LascoX Pre-Show Stalwart

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    I think Benoits sheer intensity and aggressive nature will carry him to a solid , but hard fought victory over Micheals. He has a good 2-0 record in these matches, he has home field advantage and his reputation of the Crippler was well earned. I see this ending 2-1 in favor of Benoit.
     
    #11
  12. HBK-aholic

    HBK-aholic Shawn Michaels ❤

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    Shawn is, simply put, the better of the 2. I put Benoit in my Top 5 wrestlers, so in no way will I underestimate his ability to give Shawn a very tough challenge here. However, Shawn is a better wrestler. Benoit defeated Triple H, but Shawn Michaels defeated Bret Hart. Both are tough competitors, and this would be one of the closest, most interesting matches in the business. That being said, Benoit has never been as big as Shawn. I can't put Benoit over here. Not because he's not great, but because Shawn is greater.

    The home field advantage has been used, however, it really doesn't matter as much as you like to say it does. Shawn was booked to go over Bret Hart in Canada. If he can go over Hart, do you think Benoit is anywhere near the hero he is? It's not even close.


    Would anyone like to tell me why Shawn lost his singles match with Benoit? I mean, we all know he was about to pin Benoit and win. Ah yeah I remember, an interference. There'll be no Triple H to save Benoit's ass in this match.

    Shall I spin this around? I like doing that. Benoit was pinned 3 times in 60 minutes. In OVER 60 minutes, how many times was Shawn pinned? 0. By a wrestler who's at the very least of the same calibre of Benoit's, and some would argue Hart is actually even better than Benoit. If Hart can't get just 1 pin, I doubt Benoit would get enough to defeat Shawn. Now, I'm not saying Benoit will get 0 pins, but he'll get less than Shawn.
     
    #12
  13. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    1. How about that triple threat match at Backlash 2004. I remember Benoit making your boyfriend HBK tap out. He could do the same thing against and he has the Sharpshooter, Croosface, and the diving headbutt as ways to pin HBK.

    2. The likelihood of Michaels losing a pin is much greater than him getting a pin. Benoit has gotten pinfalls in Iron Man Matches against wrestlers who wrestle similar to Hart in Angle and HHH.

    3. It doesn't matter that Benoit has never been bigger than Shawn. That could have matter if HBK had actually beat Benoit before but he hasn't.
     
    #13
  14. HBK-aholic

    HBK-aholic Shawn Michaels ❤

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    We got married yesterday, actually, he's my husband now. Shall I show why using Triple Threat matches usually isn't a valid argument? Wrestler A and B could beat the shit out of each other, while Wrestler C could stay out of it for the most part. After a while of A and B getting tired and injured, wrestler C could come out of no where and gain a pin. Say Wrestler A is Austin, Wrestler B is Hogan and Wrestler C is Shelton Benjamin. Would Benjamin be a better wrestler than Austin and Hogan in this case? Of course not, which is why Triple threat matches aren't a reliable way of seeing who would win a singles match.

    Shawn has also used the Sharpshooter, Crossface, AND has his own set of moves, such as Sweet chin Music which he can hit in a second. Both have wide movesets so it's not really an argument for or against either.

    First of all, on what planet does Hart wrestle the same as Triple H? Do you not watch wrestling? Second of all, Shwan has pinfalls over both, so again, this is kind of a stupid point.

    However, both have had just over 90 minutes worth of Iron Man Matches. Shawn was pinned twice in those 90 minutes, Benoit was pinned 8 times, and Shawn's main competitor of Hart is a better wrestler than Benoits main competitor of Triple H.

    Hon the only thing bringing up the Shawn/Benoit match does is make it obvious Benoit can only beat Shawn when Triple H interferes. Go watch the match again, Shawn had just kicked SCM and Triple H had to interfere or Shawn would have won.
     
    #14
  15. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    1. I've watched the match and he did hit SCM but you can only speculate as to whether he would have won. Maybe he would have or maybe he wouldn't. People have kicked out of SCM before.

    2. I always love the "do you not watch wrestling" schtick when I have you on the run. HHH and Angle work a technical style similar to Hart even though HHH doesn't have a submission finisher. They usually target a body part to set up a finishing move (Angle at least). HHH has more victories over than HBK than the other way around :)

    3. When is the last time HBK has won with the crossfacce? We all know the last time HBK has won with the Sharpshooter and I don't see McMahon ordering the bell to ring.

    4. You would think HBK being so great that he would have gotten a pinfall off of Hart in 60 minutes. HBK can't run forever and Benoit may use the first half hour just to wear him down and then he can get the pinfalls from there.

    I'm thinking Benoit wins 3-2.
     
    #15
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  16. HBK-aholic

    HBK-aholic Shawn Michaels ❤

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    Lol, this is pathetic. Do me a favour and watch again. If anyone can tell me that wasn't made to look like the match was over I will laugh in your face. Hell, the whole reason Triple H was booked to interfere AT THAT POINT is because the match was about to finish, and everyone knows that.

    :lmao: Have me on the run? Triple H has a completely different wrestling style to Hart and Angle, I really don't undersyand how you think they're so 'similar'. I don't even specifically mean the finisher here, just watching matches, a Triple H match is completely different to an Angle or Hart one.

    When was the last time Benoit won with it? :p But seriously, even if he didn't gain a submission out of one of those moves, crossface is a powerful move, which both men use with power - it'd cause some damage.

    As I've pointed out many times, this argument can just be swung straight back around. If Benoit was so great he wouldn't have been pinned 8 times in just over 90 minutes of Iron Man matches.

    I love it when people say this, just randomly pulling numbers out of their head.
     
    #16
  17. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    I didn't even give this a second thought... HBK wins.

    Benoit has his aggressive streak, but he tires after a while. HBK is known to fight WARS in the ring, and his stamina is off the charts.

    I see a lot of pinfalls and tapouts during this match, but in true HBK style, I see him coming out with a tiebreaking Sweet Chin Music for the victory.
     
    #17
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  18. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    One more important factor that I just though of is that I need to quote JR:

    "NO ONE can out-perform Shawn Michaels in big-match situations."

    Benoit, on the other hand, had an entire storyline written around the fact that he was a choke-artist in big-match situations.

    Come on, people... stop breaking the rest of it down in Bible-sized word-forts. Nothing matters but these guys' track records. In his prime, HBK was known to come out on top in main event matches. In his prime, Benoit was known for LOSING them.

    Done deal. HBK wins.
     
    #18
  19. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    Hold on a minute now. I know Will went through HBK's career but at least I can emphasize on it. HBK is declared Mr. Wrestlemania but look at how many times he lost and who he has lost to in "big-match situations". He has lost to HHH, Benoit, Angle, Cena, and Undertaker in big match situations. He hasn't won a big match since 2002. He won the title off of HHH at Survivor Series and that was his only win against HHH. HBK has routinely come up on the losing end of big match situations. In a big match situation, Benoit won the Royal Rumble, beat HHH and HBK twice in PPV matches and in singles competition so I don't want to hear that shit about Benoit can't come through in a big match situation. He gave Kane his best match in years in 2004 and HBK had an average match with him just three months later.


    HBK in his prime lost to Tatanka and Diesel at Wrestlemania and the Montreal Screwjob speaks for itself. Benoit will wear Michaels down and out and will win this match and I have no doubt about it.
     
    #19
  20. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    All of these would be valid arguments if we were speaking about HBK, prior to his lazy eye, hair loss, broken back, and bad knees. We're supposed to be judging these guys by their kayfabe gimmicks during their primes. So this whole argument above is null and void.

    First of all, Tatanka defeated HBK by COUNTOUT. Can we really count that as a credible win? Besides, this match occurred WAY before HBK's prime. I think we can all agree that the time period of HBK's prime was during his main event years.

    Which brings me to his match against Diesel at Wrestlemania. If you want to compare records, Diesel was defeated by Bret Hart for the WWE Championship during Survivor Series 1995. However, HBK defeated Bret Hart on more than one occasion for the WWE championship. This basically means that HBK > Bret Hart and is also > Diesel, even though he suffered a loss to him.

    We could go in circles with this forever, but the point is that no wrestler is undefeated. But in HBK's prime, he was pretty close since he was rarely outperformed in big-match situations. However, one of the rare times he was outperformed was against a man that was better than Bret Hart; one of HBK's toughest opponents of all time. I think we can let that loss slide.

    Chris Benoit's prime occurred during his run for the WHC around the time of Wrestlemania XX. Before that event, the storyline was a mimic of his real-life experiences of never being able to "win the big one." He was known as a choke artist DURING his prime. Granted, he defeated HHH and HBK at Wrestlemania, but HBK was far from being in his prime at that event, not to mention that a triple threat stipulation is hardly a good comparison of one's skill against another wrestler. Either way, his championship reign was a bore-fest and completely lackluster. After all, he lost that title to a 24-year-old, inexperienced Randy fucking Orton five months after he won it.

    Chris Benoit's prime is not even in the same LEAGUE as HBK's prime. Not by a long-shot.
     
    #20
  21. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    Lol... answer me this, D-Man, what happened in the main event at Wrestlemania 20, which was being billed as the biggest Wrestlemania in history at the time?

    I love Shawn Michaels, but Benoit would win this match, no doubt. D-Man talks about Benoit choking... shit, I'm pretty sure if we looked it up, Benoit has more wins over Triple H than ANYONE post 2003. If Benoit was so dominating over HHH... then why wouldn't it be the same against HBK? And hell... didn't Benoit beat HHH himself in a match JUST LIKE THIS on Raw one time? Yep, he sure did, to retain the World Title, too.

    One on one, regular stipulations, Michaels would stand a chance at winning against Benoit, I'll admit that, because honestly... Michaels stands a chance at defeating anyone throughout the history of the sport one on one in a fair, regular contest. However, in an 1 hour Iron-Man? Benoit would just tear Michaels apart. Sorry, but it's true. In fact, I honestly don't think anyone could defeat Benoit in an hour Iron Man contest. His gas tank was too good, he was tough as nails, and he just has the offense to wear and tear people down during the duration of an hour. Seriously, those chops, German-Suplexes, headbutts from the top, crippler crossfaces.... imagine having to take those bad boys for an hour's time? Nobody's surviving that, including Shawn Michaels.
     
    #21
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  22. Checkmate

    Checkmate .you.lose.

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    Just some things that come to mind...

    Many have pointed out that Michaels defeated Hart in overtime at WM 12, and thus reference how Michaels failed to beat Hart in the time allotted. However, this also means Hart failed to beat Michaels even once in the same time period. Comparing Benoit and Hart, I find Hart to have far more success closing matches than Benoit. Speaking from a kayfabe point of view, Benoit had a career of coming up short, saved for a brief main event run, while in Michaels's main event run, he went over guys like Hart.

    People keep saying how Benoit defeated Michaels at Wrestlemania 20, yet it was in fact Triple H that tapped out to the Crossface on that night. Granted, Michaels did tap to the Sharpshooter at Backlash, but facts are facts, and should be represented accurately.

    Some have referenced Michaels's losses at Wrestlemania, yet Benoit's have somehow gone unrepresented. Benoit won and lost a fall at WM 16 (both to Jericho), lost at WM 17 (to Angle), lost at WM 19 (triple threat tag match), lost at 21 (MitB ladder match), and lost at WM 22 (to JBL).

    I also seem to remember that in the Benoit/Triple H ironman match, Benoit only scored the final fall with some help from Eugene. Granted, Benoit did get the job done, but he needed some aid to do so.
     
    #22
  23. X

    X RIP Sgt. Michael Paranzino / RIP CM

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    The win here is going to Benoit, and going to him rather easily. Why? Because HBK has already undeservedly gone past Kenta Kobashi in an Iron Man match, while Benoit had an easy route here. No way is HBK going to be going over someone with the conditioning of Chris Benoit, who in my opinion is arguably the single greatest in-ring performer to ever live, with only a very select few coming close to him. HBK could be argued in that category, but frankly I think Benoit is leagues above HBK in the ring and has a MUCH more diverse skillset, if not the single most diverse skillset of anyone in professional wrestling history. Add in to the fact that he has more experience in Iron Man matches than HBK does, and I'd say this one is definitely in Benoit's favor.

    Vote goes to Benoit here, no doubt about it. I love HBK, but he's just not nearly as good of a worker as Benoit was.
     
    #23
  24. Mr. TM

    Mr. TM Throwing a tantrum

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    X pretty much said it, Benoit was had an easy time, just look at the score in the matches before this, they were probably both 3+ pin wins, possibly even shutouts. He is just getting warmed up. On the other hand, Shawn Michaels seems to have needed every last second, possibly even overtime to win, he is exhausted. We haven seen Shawn Michaels after hard battles, Undertaker, Stone Cold, and others, he took a LONG time to get back. Well he has now wrestled harder matches for longer times in back to back. his sore back is killing him here, and Chris Benoit, a master technician, perhaps even a "crippler" has moves that will tear Michaels apart. Crossface will ruin his upper back, while his Sharpshoother, which is deadly, a move that has BEATEN Shawn Michaels, in a big name match before, would tear apart Michaels. And one thing I know about Michaels, is he is a man of pride, and would refuse to tap out. If Benoit doesn't get that point, it wont matter, because Shawn isn't going an hour.
     
    #24
  25. The Underking

    The Underking Likes Jalepenos with Cheese

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    If this happened in one match without Shawn having to face to wrestling greats i beleive Shawn would win. Considering the fact that Chris Benoit is in my opinion a great technical wrestler the guy who made me care about in ring performence other then the story. In a close one i believe Chris will take the gold somewhere around 2-1 or so.
     
    #25

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