Fourth Round: Iron Man Match - Chris Jericho vs. Vader

[klunderbunker]

This is a Fourth round match in the Mexico City Region.

Rules: I'm sure you all know this one pretty well. It's 60 minutes long and the most decisions, be they by pin, submission, count out or disqualification, wins the match. The referee has been instructed to be somewhat lenient with disqualifications but not to a huge extent. There is a standby referee at ringside in the case of the primary referee becoming incapacitated.

Location: Arena Mexico, Mexico City, Mexico.

Chris Jericho

Vs.

Vader

​

Voting is open for 4 days.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Another Vader win.

Vader's first IWGP Title came as a result of wrestling 4 different opponents for a total of nearly 50 minutes. He went 4-0 against Japanese Legends for the World Title. For a guy his size, he's always been in tremendous cardio-vascular shape. After all, one doesn't have wars with a guy in Sting's physical condition and survivie if he isn't in shape.

The endurance argument favors Vader anyway. Here's why:

1. Jericho is going to get FAR more exhausted trying to move around a 450-lb guy than Vader will get pushing around a 230-lb guy. All the weightlifters on this board know - heavier weight = more fatigue, right? Same concept. They're wrestling, afterall, not running on a treadmill.

2. Vader will do FAR more damage to Jericho with each punch and each slam than Jericho will do to him. Vader may be winded by 40 minutes, but by then, think of the punishment Jericho will have taken. Again, Sting has a losing record against Vader - the shape you're in only takes you so far.

As much as I love Jericho, Vader will be up 3-0 by the 35 minute mark, and even if he gets winded, Jericho will be WAY to banged up and WAY too exhausted to make up those falls on a 3-continent World Champion like Vader.

 

[Ferbian]

Something tells me Vader is going over in this one, while Chris Jericho certainly has the stamina advantage on his size, and the athletic endurance to work a match of this stipulation.

I feel Vader will be able to get an advantage over Chris Jericho at a match determining point, and Vader may very well be able to get Jericho down for a few 3 counts, making a lead that will be hard for Jericho to catch up with.

While it pains me, this match is just not gonna work for Jericho, Vader wins this one.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Chris Jericho and here's why:

1: Shawn Michaels lasted over one hour with Bret Hart who is one tough S.O.B and not only did Michaels last over that hour, he also didn't concede a single fall to Hart. Jericho has beaten Michaels in 25 minute matches before and I'm fairly certain he could do the same with Vader here.

2: Chris Jericho has taken out larger men before. Kane, The Undertaker, Batista, Big Show etc...Jericho has beaten these men in a variety of situations and shown that he not only displays diversity but also resilience and that is the key. (Here's a match where Y2J takes a fairly vicious beating from Show and still wins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzlU_Z-BtIk)

That is why you should vote for Chris Jericho.

 

[Coco]

Chris Jericho and here's why:

1: Shawn Michaels lasted over one hour with Bret Hart who is one tough S.O.B and not only did Michaels last over that hour, he also didn't concede a single fall to Hart. Jericho has beaten Michaels in 25 minute matches before and I'm fairly certain he could do the same with Vader here.

Jericho isn't going to have a Jeritron inflicted eye-injury to exploit here, Randy Orton isn't going to RKO Vader on his behalf, and this isn't a ladder match. So why does experience against Michaels matter?

Using Bret Hart as an example is not only nonsensical, but it's selling Vader short. Vader has been a champion the world over. Bret stood on top of a WEAK WWF. Vader's a L.99 Mewtwo while Bret is a L.65 Slowpoke at best.

2: Chris Jericho has taken out larger men before. Kane, The Undertaker, Batista, Big Show etc...Jericho has beaten these men in a variety of situations and shown that he not only displays diversity but also resilience and that is the key. (Here's a match where Y2J takes a fairly vicious beating from Show and still wins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzlU_Z-BtIk)

This isn't a hardcore match, like the one you posted between Jericho and Show. Nor is Vader a mediocre big man like Kane. Nor is this a cage match, like the match in which Jericho holds a weak victory (via ESCAPE) over Batista.

Soooo... What were you saying?

Oh, yeah. You were insulting my intelligence so severely that I'd be inclined to vote for Vader. I'll tell you what, it's damn tempting.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Jericho isn't going to have a Jeritron inflicted eye-injury to exploit here, Randy Orton isn't going to RKO Vader on his behalf, and this isn't a ladder match. So why does experience against Michaels matter?

The point I was making here was that Shawn Michaels went toe-to-toe with Bret Hart and lasted over one hour. Bret Hart was in just as good shape as Vader ever was and was tough too. Jericho has had several tough matches with Michaels and beaten him.

Using Bret Hart as an example is not only nonsensical, but it's selling Vader short. Vader has been a champion the world over. Bret stood on top of a WEAK WWF. Vader's a L.99 Mewtwo while Bret is a L.65 Slowpoke at best.

That's selling Bret Hart short. Bret Hart was world champion regardless of the way you try to dress it up. He defeated several great opponents (including Ric Flair who beat Batista's butt last round I might add) and put on damn fine matches in the process.

This isn't a hardcore match, like the one you posted between Jericho and Show. Nor is Vader a mediocre big man like Kane. Nor is this a cage match, like the match in which Jericho holds a weak victory (via ESCAPE) over Batista.

Again the point I was making was this; Chris Jericho is not only tough but Chris Jericho has a diverse selection of moves. Chris Jericho owns victories over tough opponents.

 

[Coco]

The point I was making here was that Shawn Michaels went toe-to-toe with Bret Hart and lasted over one hour.

I (internet appropriate phrase for "heard you") the first time you said it and it matters just as little the second time. Not at all.

Vader = World-wide success.
Bret = Success in one federation in a down period where there was nobody fit to wear the crown.

See how little it matters?

Bret Hart was in just as good shape as Vader ever was and was tough too.

Vader lost his eye in a match with Stan Hansen. And continued. In a match that makes the WM12 bout look like a happy-fun-times massage.

Bret's toughness is not only a non-factor, but it doesn't stack up to Vader's. Bret probably thinks it does, but he's a raving mark for himself.

Jericho has had several tough matches with Michaels and beaten him.

Victories the likes of which he won't duplicate against Vader. As I pointed out in my last post.

Why are we talking about Michaels again? Oh, right. Because you have nothing.

That's selling Bret Hart short.

No. It was completely accurate.

Bret Hart was world champion regardless of the way you try to dress it up.

*cough* David Arquette *cough*

He defeated several great opponents (including Ric Flair who beat Batista's butt last round I might add) and put on damn fine matches in the process.

Great matches mean nothing.

Flair was mediocre when it came to standing toe-to-toe with his competitors. So I'm not surprised a glorified midcarder like Bret was able to get one up on him. Everyone's taken a turn on that ride.

Again the point I was making was this; Chris Jericho is not only tough but Chris Jericho has a diverse selection of moves. Chris Jericho owns victories over tough opponents.

None decisive enough to justify a glorified midcarder with a couple abyssmal main event runs going over Vader in his peak.

If you have something real, feel free to disagree. But none of the facts you've brought up make Jericho look like a winner here.

 

[Phoenix]

Taking into account what IC has said about Vader's background and experience on durability, I still need to raise a few elements about Jericho that I felt has been missed out.

The key element that makes Jericho work is his scouting, he always appears to go into matches with an eye on the moves that will be most deadly against him pending on his opponent (say Edge's Spear) but also is resourceful on any match stipulation thrown at him. That being said, Jericho knows he has an hour to make a difference but knows Vader isn't going to be an easy opponent, Jericho's key offence is going to be keeping Vader off his feet, using countouts and trying to target his back and legs so the Liontamer will be most effective, I will admit Jericho trying to earn a pin is not going to be most effective against Vader.

I can see Jericho using duck and cover tactics to keep Vader moving, rolling out to ringside and trying to keep Vader from getting back in. The other key element is Vader's likelihood to use a weapon, he is usually unstable and will use a weapon, given this is no DQ, Jericho will no doubt try and use that element to get himself a point or two over the big man, most likely the last and vital point he needs to win it.

I see it being very tight, but I think Jericho would process by getting Vader to DQ himself and lose out at the last few seconds.

 

[gd]

Jericho is a jobber, more or less. He loses to Heath Slater and JTG. That speaks for itself. However, not to overrate Vader, who didn't win a ton of matches himself, at least not in places other than Japan. There's a reason Vader isn't as widely known as a lot of other legends here.

I think it comes down to the fact that Vader is freaking huge here and in just as good of shape as Jericho, who has a reputation for doing the opposite of winning matches (that'd be losing matches, fyi) The dream of every Canadian ends here.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I'm going with Vader, and it doesn't take much explanation.

Vader would do so much damage to poor lil' Y2J in the first 40 minutes of the match, Jericho wouldn't have enough energy to pin Vader once in the last 20 minutes. My guess is, Vader would get at least one pinfall, maybe two, within the first 40 minutes. Vader might gas out, and Jericho will get in a decent amount of offense in the last 20 minutes (I'm being generous to Jericho). But Jericho has taken far too much punishment, and can't inflict enough damage to actually pin Vader (don't even think about saying Jericho could make Vader tap, or pass out).

Vader isn't only a monster, but he has more stamina than any big guy I have seen of his size. He might not be able to put in a full 60 minutes of high-octane wrestling, but 30 or 40 should be sufficient. Vader, without much internal debate.

 

[Muffin Top Merkley]

Originally my vote was going to Chris Jericho. After reading IC's post, the logic convinced me to vote Vader.

Vader needs, and is capable of, establishing a solid lead by punishing Jericho for the first half of the match. Jericho would then be too damaged to mount a winning comeback.

Pheonix mentioned that Jericho would play cat and mouse to wear Vader down, and while I agree that is how the match will begin, that hit and avoid tactic will only work so long before Vader lands the one hit needed to begin the beat down.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Fact of the matter is this. Chris Jericho knows how his opponents work. He could very easily use tactics similar to those that Brock Lesnar employed in his Iron Man Match with Kurt Angle. He could concede one, maybe even two falls via DQ after hitting Vader with weapons but he'd have doen the necessary damage. Jericho has various tricks up his sleeve and while Vader would be the toughest opponent for Y2J to date, he would still prevail.

 

[Loveless]

Vader doesn't need 60 minutes to beat Jericho, after 30 minutes with the big man, Jericho would be begging for the match to end. That's why stamina doesn't mean shit in this match, because I'm quite certain Jericho would die in the first half.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

So this is an odd dynamic. Wen I see that Vader is down 5 to Jericho, despite probably about 90% of the posts made to be pro-Vader, well naturally I assume it's the noob posters who just vote on name recognition. TO prove that to myself, I checked the names.

And it's actually my fellow staff mates who are partially to blame for this potential let down.

All logic dictates that Vader would dominate this match and win it, probably 3-1 at the very least. Do I need to bring up the fact that Jericho isn't very good in big spots? I hope not, because it pains me to do so. Jericho is my favorite wrestler in history, but even that takes a back seat to the logical fact that the greatest Superheavyweight in history would hand Jericho his ass back in 14 broken peices along with a plane ticket to Canada.

The finals of this region should be Vader vs Andre. Let's make it so.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Ok. I haven't voted yet. My main issue is that I do not know when Jericho's "prime" was. When was it? It seems to me that when he was the most over...he beat Trips for the WWF Title and then had it reversed by Earl. If that's the case, then Jericho's prime could be argued to be at a time when he was a midcarder.

Vader...well, I'm naturally inclined to find reasons NOT to vote for Vader because IC is such a mark for him.

Convince me people.

 

[Coco]

The key element that makes Jericho work is his scouting, he always appears to go into matches with an eye on the moves that will be most deadly against him pending on his opponent (say Edge's Spear) but also is resourceful on any match stipulation thrown at him.

Odd. I've seen Jericho suffer many a defeat at the hands of the STF, the Five-Star Frog Splash, the FU, the 619, the Pedigree, the Batista Bomb, and so on. If I didn't know better, I'd think this talking point about scouting came out of your ass. Jericho suffers losses like he's a career midcarder and takes them decisively to finishes all the time.

"Resourceful on any match stipulation"? Sure, he's done great in Hell in a Cell... Erm, the Elimination Chamber?.. Nope. TLC.. Well, a 33% record isn't as bad as his numbers in HIAC and the EC. But it doesn't speak well for Jericho's supposed resourcefulness either.

Do me a favor, Phoenix. Be real with us, don't just type stuff because you like the clickity-clack sound your keyboard makes. Jericho's one of my top ten favorites ever, but even I know that he has no objective hope in this bout. Call it down the middle. Please.

 

[Adam08]

Bad match up for Chris Jericho as much as this pains me to do this. I have to vote for Vader on this one. Sometimes size doesn't matter but it matters here and Vader is much bigger then Jericho so its going to be hard to get Vader on the ground for the 3 count let alone doing it more then once in a Iron man match.

I see Vader winning this with the Vader bomb numorus times and the only way I see Jericho can get a fall is either by a countout or dq.

 

[The Brain]

In my opinion this clearly belongs to Vader. I have love for Jericho, but I don’t worship him like a lot of the IWC seems to. Remember we’re talking about Vader from the early 90’s. This man was dominant. Don’t assume the 450 pound Vader doesn’t have any stamina. During his prime this man was quick and agile and was certainly capable of wrestling a long match. Jericho would want to try to stick and move to avoid Vader. He wouldn’t be able to avoid him for an hour. Eventually Jericho would get caught and Vader would punish him.

Fact of the matter is this. Chris Jericho knows how his opponents work. He could very easily use tactics similar to those that Brock Lesnar employed in his Iron Man Match with Kurt Angle. He could concede one, maybe even two falls via DQ after hitting Vader with weapons but he'd have doen the necessary damage. Jericho has various tricks up his sleeve and while Vader would be the toughest opponent for Y2J to date, he would still prevail.

I see this working the exact opposite way. Jericho can’t afford to sacrifice a fall, Vader can. Vader can do a lot more damage with a weapon than Jericho can. If Vader gets a DQ early he would make that fall up in no time and it would be all over for Jericho.

Please try to remember what a monster Vader was in the early 90’s. Forget about the Vader we saw with the WWF in 1998. The Vader of 1992 is capable of beating anyone in this tournament. Jericho doesn’t stand a chance.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Wow, I'm a little surprised at this voting. Look, Vader may inflict more damage then anyone left in this tournament. He is a physical force that most won't be able to match, and his move-set is devastating, and his stamina is unreal considering his size. He can go 60 minutes just fine. Jericho literally has no advantage other then speed, and even then, Jericho was never that fast for a little guy. Vader would brutalize Jericho early on, racking up falls, and even if he slows down late, Jericho would be too beat up to really capitalize. Jericho might sneak in a win or two, but Vader will have several. Vader wins something like 7 or 8 to 1.

 

[Adalam]

I've seen clips of Vader in action and he's a pretty good wrestler. Problem is, I haven't heard him utter a word on the mic. Jericho, on the other hand, is a diamond on the mic. He'll deliver a great promo, sometimes drawing cheers over boos just cause he threw it down that well. Jericho came into the WWE as an arrogant heel, but he then worked his way to being a face version of Y2J, then onto this working man gimmick full of so called honesty, and he hasn't failed to deliver a solid promo. His matches are great as well. Just look at his feud with Shawn Michaels where they got match of the year in a ladder match in the final No Mercy.

 

[CobraVenom]

I've seen clips of Vader in action and he's a pretty good wrestler. Problem is, I haven't heard him utter a word on the mic. Jericho, on the other hand, is a diamond on the mic. He'll deliver a great promo, sometimes drawing cheers over boos just cause he threw it down that well. Jericho came into the WWE as an arrogant heel, but he then worked his way to being a face version of Y2J, then onto this working man gimmick full of so called honesty, and he hasn't failed to deliver a solid promo. His matches are great as well. Just look at his feud with Shawn Michaels where they got match of the year in a ladder match in the final No Mercy.

What does mic work have to do with an Iron Man match? Is the tie breaker a verbal debate? lol


I voted for Vader here. Vader has broken people in half before with his power bomb. No reason for me to think that he can't do the same with Jericho. I also don't see how Chris can hurt Vader when, as someone stated before, he got his eye punched out by Hansen and he continued. Vader for the win.

 

[thepalaceprince]

I voted for jericho. Vader is a great big man and in a 60min match he would probably destroy jericho but this match wouldnt go 60min. You see jericho is one of the brightest minds the world has ever seen. He knows jus how powerfull vader is so the 1st time he locks in the walls he scores a submission victory and then refuses to break the hold after about 10min or so in this hellacious hold vader is now passed out and suffering from some serious damage to his neck and is unable to continue as he must be rushed to the hospital for emergency surgery jerichos master plan works and he moves on.

 

[Big Sexy]

I voted for jericho. Vader is a great big man and in a 60min match he would probably destroy jericho but this match wouldnt go 60min. You see jericho is one of the brightest minds the world has ever seen. He knows jus how powerfull vader is so the 1st time he locks in the walls he scores a submission victory and then refuses to break the hold after about 10min or so in this hellacious hold vader is now passed out and suffering from some serious damage to his neck and is unable to continue as he must be rushed to the hospital for emergency surgery jerichos master plan works and he moves on.

And in that 10 minutes Jericho gets disqualified multiple times for refusing to break the hold. Seriously though Vader is more then powerful enough to get out of the Walls of Jericho. No way Y2J is able to keep him in the hold for a prolonged period of time. You can come up with some more bs dream scenarios but it doesn't change the fact that Vader wins this match.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

I voted for jericho. Vader is a great big man and in a 60min match he would probably destroy jericho but this match wouldnt go 60min. You see jericho is one of the brightest minds the world has ever seen. He knows jus how powerfull vader is so the 1st time he locks in the walls he scores a submission victory and then refuses to break the hold after about 10min or so in this hellacious hold vader is now passed out and suffering from some serious damage to his neck and is unable to continue as he must be rushed to the hospital for emergency surgery jerichos master plan works and he moves on.

Wow, I never thought about it that way...probably because the referee would proceed to repeatedly disqualify Jericho in the unlikely event that Jericho is even able to get the Wall of Jericho locked on Vader.

 

[Mr. Truth]

I voted for jericho. Vader is a great big man and in a 60min match he would probably destroy jericho but this match wouldnt go 60min.

Odd. This is a 60 Minute Iron Man Match. How is this match not going to go 60 minutes?

You see jericho is one of the brightest minds the world has ever seen.

Then he'd be busy figuring out how to eradicate AIDS or something. If you mean the wrestling world, then sure. He's a great person in the business and I enjoy his work.

He knows jus how powerfull vader is so the 1st time he locks in the walls he scores a submission victory and then refuses to break the hold after about 10min or so in this hellacious hold vader is now passed out and suffering from some serious damage to his neck and is unable to continue as he must be rushed to the hospital for emergency surgery jerichos master plan works and he moves on.

I think you're confusing the Walls of Jericho with the Liontamer. The Liontamer has Jericho put his knee to an opponent's neck. The Walls of Jericho is supposed to hurt the back. He might be able to lock in the Walls, although doubtful since Vader would power out of something like that. However, Vader is just too big for the Liontamer to work. Jericho's only real option in this match is the Codebreaker. That's his way of getting pinfalls. But, he won't get enough of them since this is Vader. This is the Mastadon. This is one of the most agile, dynamic, and toughest big men to ever grace the ring. Now I love Jericho as much as the next guy here, but Vader wins this match with ease. He's going to come at Jericho with the force of an oncoming train and powerbomb him until he can no longer move.

Obligatory large font: It's Vader Time!