European Region, Berlin Subregion, First Round: (5) Paige vs (12) Candice Michelle

Discussion in 'Europe Region' started by Bernkastel, Jan 16, 2015.

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Who wins this match up?

  1. Paige

  2. Candice Michelle

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  1. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    This is a first round match in the European region. It is standard wrestling match. It will be held at the 02 World Arena in Berlin, Germany.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    #5 Paige

    VS.


    [​IMG]

    #12 Candice Michelle

    There will be 1 day of discussion before the poll opens. It will remain open for 2 days. Spam rules will apply. In case of a tie the winner will be decided based upon how many people have made a case for them in the discussion thread. One per each poster.

    Who wins the match up?
     
    #1
  2. Skairipa Matrix

    Skairipa Matrix 3 Time Elite Openweight Champion

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    This should be an easy first round win for Paige. She's much better in the ring, on the mic and in every other way possible than Candice. Candice had one worthwhile run where she feuded with Melina and Beth but I can't say I remember any of said run besides her winning the title and the pudding match with Melina.

    Vote Paige.
     
    #2
  3. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    False. This should be an easy win for Candice, who is extremely underrated. She carried the women's division following the departure of Trish Stratus, as its top face. She helped establish Beth Phoenix as a truly monstrous force and had great matches with Lita [who was very sloppy and past her prime by 2007] Melina, Victoria, and Mickie James. If it weren't for her injuries who knows how much further and better she would have become.

    Paige is still coming into her own and hasn't even managed to establish herself as the top woman in the current division. And the current division isn't anywhere near as good as the one Candice dominated.

    Candice was a better worker, was a bigger and more popular star, and had more charisma. Her only drawback is her lack of longevity. Paige is great and one of the standouts of the current Divas, but she isn't at Candice's level.

    Vote Candice.
     
    #3
  4. Skairipa Matrix

    Skairipa Matrix 3 Time Elite Openweight Champion

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    I could be wrong, but wasn't that still Mickie James? I never saw Candice as the top face of the division and while I agree she was underrated, Paige is still better than her. I do agree her feuds with Melina and Beth were good though.

    Paige may not be carrying the division but she is one of the best ones in the division and has been at or near the top of it since she debuted to beat AJ for the belt minus a few month stretch.
     
    #4
  5. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    In 2006 Mickie was the top face, yeah. But Candice was #2. By 2007 Candice overtook Mickie as the top face and remained there until she was injured. Even after coming back after 3 months she still had her heat and WWE pushed her back into the program with Beth Phoenix.

    I don't see how Paige is better. She and AJ are the top wrestlers of the division. Other than maybe Nikki Bella they have zero competition. Candice dominated when Phoenix, James, and Melina were all still hot. The fact that she was pushed above Mickie James to a title run during that period speaks wonders to her popularity at the time.
     
    #5
  6. Skairipa Matrix

    Skairipa Matrix 3 Time Elite Openweight Champion

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    I don't know how you don't think Paige is the better in ring talent. I find Paige to be a much better wrestler and to her credit, she did carry the NXT women's division basically since FCW became NXT until her main roster call up.

    Sure her and AJ don't have much to compete with right now but that's not her fault. I'm sure if she was a few years older she could've hung just fine with Mickie, Beth, Melina and co.
     
    #6
  7. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    I thought I explained that... Paige isn't the dominant diva of the current era. Candice dominated a division that was a whole lot better than today's.

    That's subjective. Objectively speaking Candice is better for wrestling better competition in matches that got more attention. She was pushed over Mickie James to a title. Paige can barely be pushed over AJ Lee to a title. Are you gonna say AJ > Mickie? Of course not.

    It's not her fault and I'm sure she could... but the point is that Candice was not a great talent when she came in and improved to the point where she did more than just "hang," she dominated.

    Kinda like how Cena is never perceived as being on the level of Hogan or Austin despite having similar longevity and drawing power because his era isn't as great all around as theirs. Not his fault, but it is what it is.

    For that reason Candice should be considered superior ATM and should get the vote.
     
    #7
  8. Spidercanrana

    Spidercanrana Should've Reinstated The Fox
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    I remember losing complete interest in the Divas Division around the time Candice Michelle rose to prominence. Maybe it was the "Holla" theme she and about 7 other women had at the time. Could be her fairy princess getup. Whatever it was, I just couldn't pay attention like I used to. Kelly Kelly could replace her in this matchup for all the accolades the two share.

    Paige is getting my interest back. She has more accomplishments than Candice, is better suited for a European win because of the location of this match, and didn't fake orgasms in a softcore porn. I have to vote Paige.
     
    #8
  9. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    False. Paige's 2 title reigns were barely longer than Candice's 1. And Candice only lost the title because she got injured. Not her fault, as the same thing happened to Lita. Kinda hard to say Paige is more accomplished when the titles she held were not as important as the one Candice held.

    Back in the day I didn't like Candice either. In fact when she became champion I led a smear campaign against her because it was my perception that she was still really bad. I had many arguments [I think with Habs] over the topic. It wasn't until years later that I looked back and realized how good Candice actually was.

    And I like Paige too, and I think she's probably the best worker out of the Divas but I know she's not on Candice's level yet.
     
    #9
  10. Spidercanrana

    Spidercanrana Should've Reinstated The Fox
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    I am considering her multiple championship wins from other companies not including WWE. And even if I wasn't, how would that be false? She was the youngest Divas Champion. She won the belt in her debut match and ended a 295-day reign. She held a women's title 3 times in the WWE. They both held the gold for a short period of time, but accumulated Paige held onto the top prize longer.

    She's more accomplished in the ring. Granted Candice had much more to work with in Melina, Mickie James, and company, I still prefer Paige. Maybe down the road I'll see Candice just like you do now, but right now I have to go with how I feel, and that is Paige's music hasn't annoyed me yet.


    It is late on my end. My entire argument might very well be I hate Candice's theme musics.
     
    #10
  11. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    Kinda pointless considering that none were on the level of Candice's WWE title. And aside from the NXT championship none were as prestigious as the current Divas title.

    Already been covered why she's not more accomplished.

    A reign which saw AJ defend against industry titans like Natalya and Brie Bella along with multiple women's matches with no real direction after Kaitlyn's departure early into the reign.

    She held belts that were not as important as the WWE women's belt when Candice held it.

    You admit that Candice had better competition when she dominated the women's division, so how can Paige be better for dominating peons that weren't on the same level?

    Subjective. But voting based on favoritism is fine. Though it still doesn't change the fact that Candice was objectively better.

    Paige's music is pretty awesome and Candice's music was pretty shit. But so is Antonio Cesaro's. But that doesn't make him a worse wrestler than say... Curtis Axel, whose theme song is awesome.

    Pretty much. Also doesn't do much to show why Candice shouldn't win this thing.
     
    #11
  12. Reflection

    Reflection is a happier and wiser man

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    Paige sucks on the mic, her acting is awkward, her wrestling skills are average, her looks or figure are no match to Candice's, her accent sucks, she had only one proper feud, which happened to be one of my least-favourite ones from 2014. Paige is both overhyped and overrated on WZ and WZF. I'll definitely vote for Candice on this one.
     
    #12
  13. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    Paige is better. In every way I can think of. I would probably elaborate more, but Spider and Rated R did a good job with that & I am pretty tired.


    Paige puts Candice in that awesome submission move until she makes her scream like a bitch.
     
    #13
  14. Thriller Ant

    Thriller Ant Beep Bop Boop

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    Page defended it more during her reigns, and was in a lot more non-title singles matches. The fact is that Candice had talented people around her that helped her look much better than she actually was. The Divas are currently improving in talent fairly quickly, and Paige is at the forefront of that. I can't think of a bad match she's had since she debuted in NXT, and she's had some very good to great ones when she's been in there with the more talented wrestlers.

    If nothing else, vote Paige because she's not dumb enough to fall face first from the top rope (skip to about :20):

    [YOUTUBE]ldwq70N28-I[/YOUTUBE]
     
    #14
  15. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    Then you must not be thinking very hard.

    Uh no, that wasn't the case at all. It was actually the opposite. Especially when it came to her feud with Beth Phoenix. I do not think Beth would have gone on the be as popular and as successful if it weren't for Candice making her look as good as she did. By that logic should we say that Trish Stratus was carried in all her feuds? Of course not. Like Candice she was the one making others look good by bumping and selling for them and making them look unstoppable. So it meant something when she won...

    Who has Paige helped to look better? Name me one person on the current roster. Didn't think so...

    They are improving on their own if anything else. It really has nothing to do with Paige. Kinda hard for her to make people look good in 2 minute matches.

    Neither can I, but I can think of plenty of awful matches that Candice had starting out. But she improved herself without a whole lot of help from others - like Trish - and became something great on her own.

    And while we're at it we should also vote out Lita first round for tearing her ACL on a botched dive. :rolleyes:

    Seriously though, that's idiotic.

    Vote Candice.
     
    #15
  16. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    Entrance theme. Check.

    In-ring ability. Check.

    Smoking hot. Check.

    Impact on debut (main roster). Check.

    Length of career. Check.

    Championship resume. Check.


    See a trend here? Paige has been wrestling since she was 13 & got to where she is now by beating people for titles & kicking ass. Candice got her job by being a ****ty model who made her debut as a failed entrant in the Diva search & they ended up putting her on the roster as 'a makeup artist'. Two very different paths. One personifies what a female wrestler is all about, while one just furthers the stereotype of supermodel 'Diva'.


    Paige had a few title reigns on her way to the WWE. Candice had a few magazine shoots. Paige was so impressive that she was chosen to be the first ever NXT Women's Champion & on her main roster debut she became the youngest ever Divas Champion (and yes that also includes the WWE\F Women's title & all the way back to when it was the NWA belt as well). Candice came up short multiple times on her way to her one & only wrestling title.



    So basically Candice Michelle is a glorified model who spent half her career in pointless 'diva' style matches (bra\panties, boring mixed tags, wet t-shirt, pudding matches, etc), but never amounted to shit despite improving from useless model to mediocre wrestler during her time. Paige is in the history books for 2 different reasons & still in the early stages of her career. Paige wins.
     
    #16
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  17. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    Sure, however Candice improved and became better. Better than Paige is now. Should we discredit the likes of Trish [valet and "****ty model"], Victoria [Godfather hoe], and Lita [valet] because they weren't trained as wrestlers when they came in? Of course not. They learned, improved, and became great. As did Candice.

    See above.

    Of belts that hardly mattered except in small obscure promotions.

    So did lots of other people.

    And Candice was pushed over Mickie James for a title. Are you gonna say that Paige is somehow better than Mickie James, who was still red hot at the time? Of course not.

    She had hard fought matches and was established as the second best face on the roster. And she has victories over every notable name on the roster at the time including Lita, Victoria, Beth, Melina, and Mickie James.

    Paige isn't even the top Diva in a division that isn't anywhere close to the level that it was when Candice was champ. Candice was more popular, had better matches against better opponents, had a better title reign, and was a better wrestler in general.

    Which is why Candice should win.
     
    #17
  18. Spidercanrana

    Spidercanrana Should've Reinstated The Fox
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    Paige did more good for the Divas title than Candice did for the Women's title, and Paige didn't need Melina, Mickie, or Beth Phoenix to do it.

    Because Candice was put over better talent at the time? Would you make the argument that The Miz was a better WWE Champion than say Eddie Guerrero because he was booked over big names like John Cena and Randy Orton?

    Just because a talent is pushed harder than others doesn't mean they're better. Look at the Bellas.


    JBL went the same route and it still gets mentioned on here how underrated his reign was. Yes, I agree Candice had more to work with and possibly looked better doing it, but my reason for voting Paige is not because she was put over clearly superior talent, it's because she IS the superior talent.


    The titles were unified when Paige held the Divas Championship. She held championships prior to working with WWE. She was a wrestler. Candice was another model who didn't even make Top 10 of the Raw Diva Search.


    I said she had more to work with, not that she dominated in it. Being a 1 time champion of 4 months and not defending her belt but 2 times, that's not domination. Sounds like writers didn't know what to do with her. At least with Paige she won without the aid of a pool full of pudding.


    Your entire argument on Candice being better is because she was booked stronger than the top talent for 4 months. That's not objectively better. If Candice actually did something worthwhile with her reign, than I'd say she's better. Right out of the dugout Paige takes the top women's championship and became the youngest doing it.

    Candice is better remembered for faking orgasms than being Women's Champion.

    I think it's a valid argument to say his theme helped kill whatever momentum he had coming out of Wrestlemania XXX. Theme music matters. "Holla" and "What Love Is" are possibly the two worst bits of musical drivel you can strap on a female athlete, and in Candice's era they did it constantly.

    If Jim Johnston gives up on you, than so should voters. Vote Paige. She at least defended her gold more than twice.
     
    #18
  19. Thriller Ant

    Thriller Ant Beep Bop Boop

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    All Beth needs for her offense to look great is someone smaller than her, which is approximately all of the Diva's roster. Getting her ass kicked by Beth doesn't make Candice good. As for Paige making people look good, you mention that you can't remember Paige having a bad match. Which some of the shitty Divas there are, that proves she can make people look good.

    Paige represents a change because she's a wrestler, not a model. I doubt WWE will take the Divas more seriously anytime soon, but at least they are hiring more wrestlers than models these days.

    Good for her that she worked at becoming competent at her job. Paige is 22 and on the main roster for less than a year and is already way better at it than Candice ever was.

    Lita's was a freak injury. Candice's was from not knowing what she was doing in the ring. There's a slight difference there.
     
    #19
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  20. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    The word 'great' will not now, or ever, apply to Candice Michelle. Improving from shit to mediocre is not considered great. The 3 names you mentioned are now on the way to your house for lumping them in with Candice fucking Michelle. Lock your door.




    Where I pointed out that Paige is better?




    Multiple belts in wrestling promotions > multiple belts to match your purse.




    True, yet 95% of those people are still better than Candice.




    You keep bringing up Mickie. Candice beat Melina for her only title & lost it to Beth. By your logic I guess that means you consider Candice, Melina & Beth all better than Mickie? Of course you dont.


    You are looking silly by using the a b c logic \ 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon hierarchy of importance here. You are better than that & Paige is better than Candice. We all know this.



    Axel has victories over Cena, does that make him better?




    No way was she more popular than Paige is & being made to look better than you are, thanks to your awesome opponents, does not make you a good wrestler. Candice had a little title reign & most people probably dont even remember she held the belt. Paige is in the history books for her NXT\WWE title wins & not even Candice's magic fairy wand can change that.
     
    #20
  21. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    I don't remember a lot of Candace Michelle other than she was a Go Daddy girl, she posed nude in Playboy and married a plastic surgeon. She also held the WWE Women's belt once apparently.

    Paige is a better hand in the ring, has a more unique, albeit sexy look, and is this good and not even 25 yet.

    Turn the Paige.
     
    #21
  22. stingray11214

    stingray11214 Cena is no Bruno & Cole is no Solie

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    Paige has a monstrous upside, a resume to knock your socks off, and what is even more scary is that she is only 22! She has won titles everywhere she went in Europe and the US. That said, how did the Joshi companies not pick her up? Her mother is Sweet Saraya, who also won the Shimme titler, and had a war with Paige, aka Britani Knight, in Paige's final match in Shimmer. Paige fought the likes of Ayako Hamada, Hiroyo Matsumoto and submission mistress Jenny Sjodin. The book on Paige is still being written, and if she leaves to join JWP or AAA, her career can reach the levels of Minami Toyota or Madusa. She is THAT good, and her potential is THAT great.

    Compared to Paige, Candace Michelle has done bupkis. Sure, she won one Divas title. Sure, she was the #2 face of the Divas. Other than that? She has done ungazza. She never performed outside of VKM's bubble.

    I know people will blast Paige because of her age. She is only 22, and has a long way to go in the squared circle before her book is completed. Candace Michelle's book, however, is closed and published. It is nowhere near what Paige has accomplished. Those who say Candace Michelle's win should be easy is a fool or a major mark. Her resume does not hold a candle to Paige's. If you are going by the TOTAL body of work at this point, it is Paige, plain and simple. Vote for Paige.
     
    #22
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