Equality?

Thriller Ant

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For those who don't know, I am currently a college student. I work for the Human Resources department, and part of my job is going on a mail run. One of my stops is in the Employee Wellness / Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Student Resources office. By the elevators are "report cards" to "grade" how gay friendly my school is. The other day I had to wait awhile for my elevator so I looked hard at it for the first time in some time. Now, I am all for equal rights, but some of the stuff was ridiculous. I couldn't find the exact thing I read, but I did read this task force report, which I will link to at the end of the post.

Some of the things the task force were mad about included:

  • Not having enough LGBT Classes
  • Not having enough referance to LGBT matters in other classes
  • Students and faculty being reluctant to come out
  • Not having LGBT-specific housing
  • The residence halls being "uncomfortable settings" for LGBT students
  • Not having a class for freshmen focusing on diversity issues

There are plenty more, but I'll let you read them if you so wish. What frustrates me is that all minorities, not just the LGBT community seemingly get a reverse-hated treatment. Rather than being treated badly or equally, they get treatment that would be considered anti-whatever if the majority was given it. Once again, I am 100% in favor of equality, but demanding special treatment is not equality.


The link: http://www.niu.edu/LGBT/pcsogi/campusclimate/NIU 1993 Task Force Report Exec Summary.pdf

(I know it is old, and some things have changed, but my point comes across nonetheless.)
 
Damn they're asking for a lot aren't there? I think it stops being equality when things like this pop up. What exactly is a LGBT class? Are they being stopped using the regular classes? Seriously, I don't get it. Is it a class where they get together and talk about being gay, or is it a regular class but only for the LGBT students?

This is going too far though. LGBT friendly residence halls? They'll get the same as everyone else. They're not special. I thought that was the point of equality anyway? To not be treated differently?
 
I thought the whole idea of equality was getting treated the same, not getting special treatmeant for living your particular lifestyle. Oxford, get in here!

AskOxford.com said:
equal

• adjective 1 being the same in quantity, size, degree, value, or status.

Yeah pretty much. Unfortunately it will be continued to be justified in the wonderful world of being politically correct and not wanting to stir up trouble. Its ridiculous what theyre asking for, as heterosexual housing would never be allowed, and if you said that the normal dorms were "uncomfortable" you would be labelled a homophobe. Unfortunately theres not a lot that can be done to change this, as they will always feel they have the moral high ground.
 
The thing that frustrates me is that it is like this for everything. There are black and Asian fraternities, but if there was a white only fraternity it would be racist. The NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People) is a major, and often outspoken, group that is the PETA of race relations, but if there was a NAAWP it would be racist.

Like I said at the beginning, I would love to live in a world where everyone was viewed as being equal and treated as such. However, cases like the ones I mentioned in each of my posts do nothing for equality, they just swing the pendulum far in the other direction.
 
It's all part of the plot - divide and conquer. We're always reminded how different we are, when the truth is that we're basicly the same and should only be tolerant of each other's choices. Apart from that, we're all human beings with the same needs. Being gay or whatever shouldn't be viewed as such big of a deal. Where people stick their buisness is certainly none of my concern, nor is it a prerequiste for some sort of special treatment. End of story.
 
When it comes to LGBT classes---I don't see the issue, as long as it's an elective class. It would be no different from an African American History or studies class, which basically every school in this country has. I don't see the big deal here as long as the class is an elective.
 
When it comes to LGBT classes---I don't see the issue, as long as it's an elective class. It would be no different from an African American History or studies class, which basically every school in this country has. I don't see the big deal here as long as the class is an elective.

As electives I don't mind either, but when I read the report, it sounded like they wanted a mandatory class about sexual identity. In addition, other classes didn't reference LGBT matters enough. I personally find both of those requests kind of excessive, personally.
 
I agree that the class is a good idea. I also think that the diversity class would be an effective means to stop some of the hate speech and hate crimes that go on on college campuses pretty much hourly. I know that I became accepting of homosexuals once I was around the culture a bit.

I find gay housing to be a ridiculous demand. The LGBT community wants acceptance, equality, and integration into everyday normal life, but then try to segregate themselves. That seems a bit hypocritical to me. Of course, the absurdness of the situation, makes all of their other demands seem even more reasonable, and that is a solid negotiation technique.
 
As electives I don't mind either, but when I read the report, it sounded like they wanted a mandatory class about sexual identity. In addition, other classes didn't reference LGBT matters enough. I personally find both of those requests kind of excessive, personally.

You know now that I think about it though, I'd probably be fine with it even if it were mandatory as well. Think about it, at some point in your academic career were you not forced to learn the history of different cultures? Be it African-Americans or the Greeks and Romans, every student learns about various cultures. I don't see the issue with learning about another culture, one that has notoriously been the target of propaganda and misinformation. I'm not saying kids should have an intensive 6 month long class about homosexual culture, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to take a couple of weeks to study that culture, just as you would any other culture in a history class. Sounds like a damn good idea to me.

But I agree with you if it's a bit excessive; anything longer than a few weeks on the topic would likely be overkill if it were a mandatory class.
 
They did mention something similar to this in the report that I liked better. Almost every college has a freshman only class to get them more familiar with the school, ours is called UNIV 101. They suggested having a sexual identity day in that class, which I would be more than okay with. You already learn about dealing with roommates and teachers, so why not include equality in that. What I wouldn't want, kinda like you said X, if you have to spent 15 weeks getting sexual identity, equality, and whatever else thrown at you without you having a say in the matter.
 
As an African American student myself, I can see your point.

I myself am tired of things like the NAACP, Black History month, BET (Black Entertainment Television), and such. If we are going to be equal, then we need a NAAWP, a White History Month (which is pretty much American History until around the Civil War and Civil Rights Movement), WET (LOL, wet!), and so on.

We should all have the same things to be considered equal. I mean, if you really want to learn about black history all the time, watch sportcenter. However, there is nothing that can be done. We are never going to be on an equal playing field in this society. Minorities are either going to have special treatment or our country is going to be viewed as racist. As a black man, I would just rather us all have every opprotunity and everything else that the other has.
 
The reverse discrimination argument I completely agree with. It seems as though whites are being racist towards other whites in an attempt to prove they..aren't racist. Telling a white man who grew up poor for 2/3 of his life, the subject of furious child abuse for a year and a half of that, is the target of various psychological problems, and had to fight for the grades I got that I am more privileged than that rich black kid in the suburb is insulting. To tell me that I have to get a minimum 3.75 GPA to get into Med School but a black female only needs a 3.5 is ludicrous. ..but that's neither here nor there.

As far as making the university more LBGT friendly, why not? Universities are supposed to be more open to various cultures. As long as you're not keeping a child who is better qualified for a scholarship from receiving one simply because he's straight you won't find a problem from me. The real problem lies with how strict those guidelines the OP stated are. Over-the-top rules and regulations are what have made Affirmative Action the black hole (oh geez...pun not intended. Seriously. I hate puns.) of racial inequality that it is.
 
As far as making the university more LBGT friendly, why not? Universities are supposed to be more open to various cultures.

Think about it, at some point in your academic career were you not forced to learn the history of different cultures?

Heres what I don't get. Culture. Are we treating LBGT lifestlye as a culture now? Because although they live a different lifestyle, it's the same goddamn country. If we start treating them as something diffeent all together, aren't we only furthering the problem by alienating them, saying their culture is different from ours? Most gay people I know just wanna be part of society.

But if you really want to take this a certain way then, make it mandatory as Xfear seems to support, thus it should also be mandatory for all gay,lesbian bisexual and transexual students to undergo a heterosexual course. Replete with strip clubs, sports games or anything that is part of "heterosexual culture" that LBGT students have not had the experience of. Wouldn't this only be fair?
 
Heres what I don't get. Culture. Are we treating LBGT lifestlye as a culture now? Because although they live a different lifestyle, it's the same goddamn country. If we start treating them as something diffeent all together, aren't we only furthering the problem by alienating them, saying their culture is different from ours? Most gay people I know just wanna be part of society.

God damn right we're treating the LGBT community as a culture, it's exactly that. Just as African Americans have their own culture, just as Hispanics do, just as any other race or religion or creed has their own community.

I don't get the problem here. They have African American culture courses at almost every college in the United States...how would an LGBT course be any different?

But if you really want to take this a certain way then, make it mandatory as Xfear seems to support, thus it should also be mandatory for all gay,lesbian bisexual and transexual students to undergo a heterosexual course. Replete with strip clubs, sports games or anything that is part of "heterosexual culture" that LBGT students have not had the experience of. Wouldn't this only be fair?

Oh please, you have got to be kidding me. The LGBT community is already well acquainted with that culture MRC, it's the culture that surrounds them everywhere they go. Heterosexuality is the overwhelming majority, American culture itself is a heterosexual culture, obsessed with football and pretty models.

I don't see the problem with a couple of weeks of LGBT education. Anyone who opposes this, please give me a single valid reason why this is wrong.
 
Heres what I don't get. Culture. Are we treating LBGT lifestlye as a culture now? Because although they live a different lifestyle, it's the same goddamn country. If we start treating them as something diffeent all together, aren't we only furthering the problem by alienating them, saying their culture is different from ours? Most gay people I know just wanna be part of society.

..They are a part of a different culture though. If the African Americans can have a separate culture than the rest of the United States, so can the GBLT community, the Mexican community, the White community. Go to your generic white housing area, then go to a generic black housing area. There are differences and similarities.

Now, go through the life of a generic gay man. Go through the life of a generic straight man. There will be differences, and there will be similarities. Going through a course on the GBLT culture or the African American culture does just this, show the similarities and differences in each other's lives and histories. You know, to get the empathizing going.

But if you really want to take this a certain way then, make it mandatory as Xfear seems to support, thus it should also be mandatory for all gay,lesbian bisexual and transexual students to undergo a heterosexual course. Replete with strip clubs, sports games or anything that is part of "heterosexual culture" that LBGT students have not had the experience of. Wouldn't this only be fair?

1) Most in the GBLT community know the straight culture. It surrounds them, it pervades them. You can't grow up and not know about the straight culture...especially considering a majority of the country is straight. A straight culture class isn't needed.

2) A culture class on the GBLT community isn't going to have trips to gay strip clubs or the Gay Pride Parade, so I fail to see why a straight culture course would include such. Unless you're speaking about teaching the GBLT about straight strip clubs and sports games. Which is silly, because those aren't straight exclusive. Or even a straight majority activity.

A course on the GBLT community would focus on the development of the Gay Rights movement, and perhaps some of the more obscure parts of Gay culture that people in the straight community wouldn't necessarily grasp from the news or friends. Just as a African American culture class would focus on the first African slaves, the Civil War, the Civil Rights movement, and the problems facing today's African Americans. I fail to see how this is a problem.
 
100% in agreement here, equality and special treatment are completely different. If you are being treated different for your sexual orientation, color, religion, views, culture, then that is wrong, but this is similar to hate crime laws. This isn't fighting for equality, this is fighting for special treatment. Things like this and hate crime laws, are reverse-racism at it's best, and all they do is exploit our differences instead of putting them aside.
 
100% in agreement here, equality and special treatment are completely different.

Pretty much. Equality means gays can marry also, special treatment means that they get scholarships at public universities specifically because they're gay.

If you are being treated different for your sexual orientation, color, religion, views, culture, then that is wrong,

I can see that.

but this is similar to hate crime laws.

Yeah, I'm not following. How are laws that make crimes specifically against one individual because of their sexual orientation, religion, or race wrong?

This isn't fighting for equality, this is fighting for special treatment.

Which one? The LBGT culture class or the hate crimes? You're being rather vague here.

Things like this and hate crime laws, are reverse-racism at it's best,

I know reverse-racism. Hate crimes are not reverse racism. They're created so that people can't go around lighting crosses in black people's lawns and beating gays because the dude likes to have sex differently than we do.

and all they do is exploit our differences instead of putting them aside.

Actually, they promote a society of singularity. If you make it illegal to beat a gay man because he's gay, it's making the official stance of the government that that isn't a valid reason to hate or beat someone. If the government allowed such a beating to occur without special penalties, they would be implying that beating up gay people simply because they're gay is no big deal.

And I assure you, hate crime laws bite both ways. If a gay gang come along and beat me because I'm heterosexual, they will be in jail for just as long as me if I were to beat a gay man up simply because he's gay.
 
Kurt Vonnegut is a legend, and he summed up this whole debate a LOT better than any of us could. It's a short, cute little story. Hopefully it'll fit here. Lets see if I can quote it. It's called "Harrison Bergeron". I know it's longer than the average post on here but please, do yourself a favor and read this. I wouldn't have posted something like this if I didn't feel it was absolutely vital that everyone interested in this topic read this story.

THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren’t only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the 211th, 212th, and 213th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General.


Some things about living still weren’t quite right, though. April, for instance, still drove people crazy by not being springtime. And it was in that clammy month that the H-G men took George and Hazel Bergeron’s fourteen-year-old son, Harrison, away.


It was tragic, all right, but George and Hazel couldn’t think about it very hard. Hazel had a perfectly average intelligence, which meant she couldn’t think about anything except in short bursts. And George, while his intelligence was way above normal, had a little mental handicap radio in his ear. He was required by law to wear it at all times. It was tuned to a government transmitter. Every twenty seconds or so, the transmitter would send out some sharp noise to keep people like George from taking unfair advantage of their brains.


George and Hazel were watching television. There were tears on Hazel’s cheeks, but she’d forgotten for the moment what they were about.


On the television screen were ballerinas.


A buzzer sounded in George’s head. His thoughts fled in panic, like bandits from a burglar alarm.


“That was a real pretty dance, that dance they just did,” said Hazel.


“Huh?” said George.


“That dance – it was nice,” said Hazel.


“Yup,” said George. He tried to think a little about the ballerinas. They weren’t really very good – no better than anybody else would have been, anyway. They were burdened with sashweights and bags of birdshot, and their faces were masked, so that no one, seeing a free and graceful gesture or a pretty face, would feel like something the cat drug in. George was toying with the vague notion that maybe dancers shouldn’t be handicapped. But he didn’t get very far with it before another noise in his ear radio scattered his thoughts.


George winced. So did two out of the eight ballerinas.


Hazel saw him wince. Having no mental handicap herself she had to ask George what the latest sound had been.


“Sounded like somebody hitting a milk bottle with a ball peen hammer,” said George.


“I’d think it would be real interesting, hearing all the different sounds,” said Hazel, a little envious. “All the things they think up.”


“Um,” said George.


“Only, if I was Handicapper General, you know what I would do?” said Hazel. Hazel, as a matter of fact, bore a strong resemblance to the Handicapper General, a woman named Diana Moon Glampers. “If I was Diana Moon Glampers,” said Hazel, “I’d have chimes on Sunday – just chimes. Kind of in honor of religion.”


“I could think, if it was just chimes,” said George.


“Well – maybe make ‘em real loud,” said Hazel. “I think I’d make a good Handicapper General.”


“Good as anybody else,” said George.


“Who knows better’n I do what normal is?” said Hazel.


“Right,” said George. He began to think glimmeringly about his abnormal son who was now in jail, about Harrison, but a twenty-one-gun salute in his head stopped that.


“Boy!” said Hazel, “that was a doozy, wasn’t it?”


It was such a doozy that George was white and trembling and tears stood on the rims of his red eyes. Two of the eight ballerinas had collapsed to the studio floor, were holding their temples.


“All of a sudden you look so tired,” said Hazel. “Why don’t you stretch out on the sofa, so’s you can rest your handicap bag on the pillows, honeybunch.” She was referring to the forty-seven pounds of birdshot in canvas bag, which was padlocked around George’s neck. “Go on and rest the bag for a little while,” she said. “I don’t care if you’re not equal to me for a while.”


George weighed the bag with his hands. “I don’t mind it,” he said. “I don’t notice it any more. It’s just a part of me.


“You been so tired lately – kind of wore out,” said Hazel. “If there was just some way we could make a little hole in the bottom of the bag, and just take out a few of them lead balls. Just a few.”


“Two years in prison and two thousand dollars fine for every ball I took out,” said George. “I don’t call that a bargain.”


“If you could just take a few out when you came home from work,” said Hazel. “I mean – you don’t compete with anybody around here. You just set around.”


“If I tried to get away with it,” said George, “then other people’d get away with it and pretty soon we’d be right back to the dark ages again, with everybody competing against everybody else. You wouldn’t like that, would you?”


“I’d hate it,” said Hazel.


“There you are,” said George. “The minute people start cheating on laws, what do you think happens to society?”


If Hazel hadn’t been able to come up with an answer to this question, George couldn’t have supplied one. A siren was going off in his head.


“Reckon it’d fall all apart,” said Hazel.


“What would?” said George blankly.


“Society,” said Hazel uncertainly. “Wasn’t that what you just said?”


“Who knows?” said George.


The television program was suddenly interrupted for a news bulletin. It wasn’t clear at first as to what the bulletin was about, since the announcer, like all announcers, had a serious speech impediment. For about half a minute, and in a state of high excitement, the announcer tried to say, “Ladies and gentlemen – ”


He finally gave up, handed the bulletin to a ballerina to read.


“That’s all right –” Hazel said of the announcer, “he tried. That’s the big thing. He tried to do the best he could with what God gave him. He should get a nice raise for trying so hard.”


“Ladies and gentlemen” said the ballerina, reading the bulletin. She must have been extraordinarily beautiful, because the mask she wore was hideous. And it was easy to see that she was the strongest and most graceful of all the dancers, for her handicap bags were as big as those worn by two-hundred-pound men.


And she had to apologize at once for her voice, which was a very unfair voice for a woman to use. Her voice was a warm, luminous, timeless melody. “Excuse me – ” she said, and she began again, making her voice absolutely uncompetitive.


“Harrison Bergeron, age fourteen,” she said in a grackle squawk, “has just escaped from jail, where he was held on suspicion of plotting to overthrow the government. He is a genius and an athlete, is under–handicapped, and should be regarded as extremely dangerous.”


A police photograph of Harrison Bergeron was flashed on the screen – upside down, then sideways, upside down again, then right side up. The picture showed the full length of Harrison against a background calibrated in feet and inches. He was exactly seven feet tall.


The rest of Harrison’s appearance was Halloween and hardware. Nobody had ever worn heavier handicaps. He had outgrown hindrances faster than the H–G men could think them up. Instead of a little ear radio for a mental handicap, he wore a tremendous pair of earphones, and spectacles with thick wavy lenses. The spectacles were intended to make him not only half blind, but to give him whanging headaches besides.


Scrap metal was hung all over him. Ordinarily, there was a certain symmetry, a military neatness to the handicaps issued to strong people, but Harrison looked like a walking junkyard. In the race of life, Harrison carried three hundred pounds.


And to offset his good looks, the H–G men required that he wear at all times a red rubber ball for a nose, keep his eyebrows shaved off, and cover his even white teeth with black caps at snaggle–tooth random.


“If you see this boy,” said the ballerina, “do not – I repeat, do not – try to reason with him.”


There was the shriek of a door being torn from its hinges.


Screams and barking cries of consternation came from the television set. The photograph of Harrison Bergeron on the screen jumped again and again, as though dancing to the tune of an earthquake.


George Bergeron correctly identified the earthquake, and well he might have – for many was the time his own home had danced to the same crashing tune. “My God –” said George, “that must be Harrison!”


The realization was blasted from his mind instantly by the sound of an automobile collision in his head.


When George could open his eyes again, the photograph of Harrison was gone. A living, breathing Harrison filled the screen.


Clanking, clownish, and huge, Harrison stood in the center of the studio. The knob of the uprooted studio door was still in his hand. Ballerinas, technicians, musicians, and announcers cowered on their knees before him, expecting to die.


“I am the Emperor!” cried Harrison. “Do you hear? I am the Emperor! Everybody must do what I say at once!” He stamped his foot and the studio shook.


“Even as I stand here –” he bellowed, “crippled, hobbled, sickened – I am a greater ruler than any man who ever lived! Now watch me become what I can become!”


Harrison tore the straps of his handicap harness like wet tissue paper, tore straps guaranteed to support five thousand pounds.


Harrison’s scrap–iron handicaps crashed to the floor.


Harrison thrust his thumbs under the bar of the padlock that secured his head harness. The bar snapped like celery. Harrison smashed his headphones and spectacles against the wall.


He flung away his rubber–ball nose, revealed a man that would have awed Thor, the god of thunder.


“I shall now select my Empress!” he said, looking down on the cowering people. “Let the first woman who dares rise to her feet claim her mate and her throne!”


A moment passed, and then a ballerina arose, swaying like a willow.


Harrison plucked the mental handicap from her ear, snapped off her physical handicaps with marvelous delicacy. Last of all, he removed her mask.


She was blindingly beautiful.


“Now” said Harrison, taking her hand, “shall we show the people the meaning of the word dance? Music!” he commanded.


The musicians scrambled back into their chairs, and Harrison stripped them of their handicaps, too. “Play your best,” he told them, “and I’ll make you barons and dukes and earls.”


The music began. It was normal at first – cheap, silly, false. But Harrison snatched two musicians from their chairs, waved them like batons as he sang the music as he wanted it played. He slammed them back into their chairs.


The music began again and was much improved.


Harrison and his Empress merely listened to the music for a while – listened gravely, as though synchronizing their heartbeats with it.


They shifted their weights to their toes.


Harrison placed his big hands on the girl’s tiny waist, letting her sense the weightlessness that would soon be hers.


And then, in an explosion of joy and grace, into the air they sprang!


Not only were the laws of the land abandoned, but the law of gravity and the laws of motion as well.


They reeled, whirled, swiveled, flounced, capered, gamboled, and spun.


They leaped like deer on the moon.


The studio ceiling was thirty feet high, but each leap brought the dancers nearer to it. It became their obvious intention to kiss the ceiling.


They kissed it.


And then, neutralizing gravity with love and pure will, they remained suspended in air inches below the ceiling, and they kissed each other for a long, long time.


It was then that Diana Moon Glampers, the Handicapper General, came into the studio with a double-barreled ten-gauge shotgun. She fired twice, and the Emperor and the Empress were dead before they hit the floor.


Diana Moon Glampers loaded the gun again. She aimed it at the musicians and told them they had ten seconds to get their handicaps back on.


It was then that the Bergerons’ television tube burned out.


Hazel turned to comment about the blackout to George.


But George had gone out into the kitchen for a can of beer.


George came back in with the beer, paused while a handicap signal shook him up. And then he sat down again. “You been crying?” he said to Hazel.


“Yup,” she said,


“What about?” he said.


“I forget,” she said. “Something real sad on television.”


“What was it?” he said.


“It’s all kind of mixed up in my mind,” said Hazel.


“Forget sad things,” said George.


“I always do,” said Hazel.


“That’s my girl,” said George. He winced. There was the sound of a riveting gun in his head.


“Gee – I could tell that one was a doozy,” said Hazel.


“You can say that again,” said George.


“Gee –” said Hazel, “I could tell that one was a doozy.”
 
I agree with a lot of what has been said here, but some of the stuff here reeks of ignorance and stupidity, one thing mainly - how everyone is saying "if they want to be equal, they should have the same stuff" and then people, including a black person no less, going on to suggest that black history, BET etc are hindering equality? I regularly here stuff about how "gay pride" marches are ******ed because no one has a straight pride march etc as well - and this attitude is so short sighted and simplistic. Sure, technically, there is no "white entertainment channel" so why should there be a "black" one? Well guess what - that's what normal tv is, it caters for the majority, who are WHITE. Straight people don't have pride parades because they're not made to feel bad for their sexuality at any time, and have never had to keep their sexuality a secret. Black history is taught because, well, all other history I've ever been taught has been white history - I don't give a shit but it's totally udnerstandable. Not teaching black history would be like kids in Africa not being taught about World War 1 or something.
 

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