ECW Triangle Ladder Match: Big Van Vader vs. Andre the Giant vs. The Big Show

Discussion in 'The 3rd Annual Wrestlezone Tournament (2009)' started by Shocky, May 23, 2009.

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ECW Ladder Match - Big Van Vader vs Andre the Giant vs Paul Wight

  1. The Mastadon

  2. The 8th Wonder of the World

  3. The Big Show

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    If that's true, then all it shows is that Big Show can jump higher. If there's no leg extension and he hangs in the air, it means he's just got more hang time, and he can straight up jump about 5'6" in the air without having to throw his legs out, this is inherently more useful than being able to do that.

    You calling Paul Wight a liar? The reason he never did one in WCW or WWE is the same reason that Vader rarely if ever did vadersaults in WWF. It is dangerous to have a guy that big land on anyone after a backflip. A major North American promotion would never risk letting a big guy do a move like this, and the reason for it was exemplified by Lesnar injuring himself.

    It shows how he would save himself in a multiple man environment. Big Show has won a five way gimmick match in the last year against opponents that included a guy wo was world champion a month later. Vader just keeps people on the floor by over powering them and rarely exerting himself until the end of the match. He isn't going to be able to do that here.

    Show me Vader take an arse whooping and win, I've already explained that The Big Show beat Hogan after being pushed off a roof, that's relevant in a match where one might fall off a high place. Vadeer had better endurance? Bollocks, he generally fought much weaker people than himself and won by keeping them down on the ground. Whenever he fought anyone of comparabe strength, Hansen, for example, the matches were much shorter. I don't believe Vader has ever lasted in a multiple manenvironment for longer than 20 minutes ever, Show has done it in World War 3 1995, 96 and 97 and Royal Rumble 2004. Not to mention the fact that Show has fought and beaten other superheavyweights far more often than Vader.

    The fact that Vader isn't good enough at his job to avoid injuring his opponents shouldn't be used as a defence here. As for the other things, Big Show has done some pretty mean shit too. Throwing Angle off a ledge, chokslamming JBL through the ring, throwing Austin through a cage,

    Taking out the ministry as can be seen here...
    [youtube]vXZtitB4hMo[/youtube]

    Really? I'm man enough to discount Vader's WWF run, because he was on the way out there, but which WCW main eventers did he beat when he was there? Sting? That's it. He lost loads to Ric Flair and he later lost to guys like Hogan as soon as they came into the company. Show on the other hand has beaten guys like Hogan, Savage, Page, Undertaker, Kane, Khali, The Rock, HHH, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar.... The list of big names he has beaten decisively is endless.

    If Vader was at his best in WCW, then he doesn't stand a chance. The Giant dominated there at a time when the company had the most stacked roster in the history of professional wrestling, then he came to WWE, the first high profile guy to do it remember, and dominated in the attitude era there. Meanwhile Vader was squashing Tom Zenk and scraping wins against Ron Simmons and losing to Davey Boy Smith.

    In Japan, Vader was much better tested, granted, but not against guys this big. Show has beaten Loch ness and Khali, two of the biggest guys to ever set foot in the ring, but Vader couldn't beat El Gigante. This match has to go to Show because he is the best equipped to win it.
     
    #26
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  2. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    I've GOT to comment on this thread and give my opinion, so here goes...

    First of all, I will admit that IC25 is a close friend of mine, but he knows all too well that I am not a Vader mark by ANY means. I've never been a big fan of Vader's character, look, persona, or fat and sloppiness. But, I can never take away from his in-ring toughness, agility, skill, and WOW-factors that he posseses.

    That being said, I don't see how ANYONE can really vote for anyone besides Vader to take this matchup. If it were anything but a ladder match, Vader wouldn't have a chance. This may be the ONLY match that favors him against these two other behemoths. Let's look at facts and history... ladder matches are dominated (for the most part) by wrestlers with AGILITY. Most of the spots and skills involved in ladder matches are derived from high-flying, high-impact movesets with sick spots. Now, these three are not spot-monkeys by ANY means, but there is only one of them that can succesfully climb a ladder with enough quickness to snag that briefcase and run away with a win... and that man is Vader.

    Let's begin with Andre's disadvantages... he's too big, fat, and slow to climb a ladder. Even if the damn thing could hold him, he has never been one to have any kind of balance. The guy has trouble walking up the ring steps, let alone a ladder.

    The Big Show is the only one that raises a few eyebrows. He constantly shows his athleticism and agility in the ring to the WWE audience while being such a large athlete. This man is over 500lbs and has been superplexed, clotheslined over the top rope, F-5'ed, F-U'ed, and even tried getting powerbombed early in his career. But all of this only shows that he can provide good SHW spots when he's being pummeled. I can't see him climbing a ladder quickly enough after knocking Vader off his feet. His slowness in climbing the ladder will make ALL the difference in this battle, giving Vader time to recover and pull him off.

    I see Andre getting knocked and being tied up in between the middle and top ropes (one of his favorite spots). Then I see Big Show hitting the chokeslam on Vader, but then he is TOO slow in climbing the ladder. This will give time for Vader to recover, get up, yank Big Show to take a high back-bump, Vader will climb about 5 or 6 steps on the ladder, hit Big Show with the Vader-bomb, get up, and use his amazing agility to climb the ladder fast enough to get the briefcase.

    Anyone who thinks differently better check themselves... and remember, this is a LADDER match... not a normal triple-threat.
     
    #27
  3. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    Worst. Post. Ever.

    First off, if you wanna see Vader take a beating and still win, watch him fight Cactus Jack (in Cactus' prime, no less) at Halloween Havoc in a Texas Death Match and still win. THEN, watch him take on Sting in a White Castle of Fear Strap Match at Superbrawl 3 and understand he suffered multiple lacerations to his back that required stitches, and a ruptured ear drum, which effects balance. And he won that as well, defeating a legend in Sting.

    Second, are you really giving Big Show the nod in multi-man environments because he's been in Battle Royals? A format which ENCOURAGES guys to stand around and use rest holds, waiting for their turn to do a spot!? This isn't Flair or Backlund lasting an hour plus with several times being alone in the ring. You're saying Big Show smothering a few midcarders while 5-55 other men were in the ring, taking most of the focus off of him resting, is more impressive than Vader winning the IWGP World Heavyweight Championship - a belt you've put over in this tournament - over three other top-tier Japanese stars?

    Also, Vader had less SHW's to beat. But he went over Bigelow in Japan and Yokozuna in the US, and that's not a bad two-some.

    But you're telling me that the ridiculous, farsical "Big Show falls off a building" spot, which everyone knew was ******ed when it happened, gived Wight more credibility than Vader finishing matches with a popped out eye, a lacerated back, a busted ear drum, and winning a Texas Death Match with Cactus Jack? You're WAY off base then.

    And please, get your facts straight. The Vader vs Hansen match with the eye injury ended in a no-contest. Vader did not lose that match. I am not keeping anything from anybody - the outcome was a draw, so I did not feel the need to go into that.
     
    #28
  4. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    My apologies to Tastycles. THIS is now the WORST POST EVER.

    1. Vader once defeated Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, and Steve Austin, ALL in their primes, cleanly by pinfall, in 5 minutes. Now, there's no evidence to support it, but by YOUR logic, that doesn't matter. Who's to say that DIDN't actually happen? Please don't go to law school.

    2. Yes, intelligent strategy in an over-the-top-rope, 60-man match. When you've got 3 men and no rules, there's no option to conserve your energy, because if you try, there's a good chance you'll miss a step and lose a ladder match. I love your logic here - "Big Show is a pussy, so you should vote for him." Vader doesn't need to conserve energy - he just goes out and wins.
     
    #29
  5. Steamboat Ricky

    Steamboat Ricky WZCW's Living Legend

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    To me...this goes down to Big Show and Vader (as apparently it does for many others, as well).

    With the Big Show...you have the most athletic big man I have ever seen in the ring. In his early days...he was lean and devastating...he got fat, then showed that he could overcome it by dropping mucho pounds. He's boxed, he's done sumo...he's quite the well-rounded performer.

    With Vader...he's menacing and stiff to be sure...but what makes me put him in this conversation is one man:

    [​IMG]

    He is a contemporary Vader, and by far...he was the highlight of this year's MITB Ladder Match. He stole the show in that one much like Morrison did in last year's. So...Vader definitely has the goods to be competitive in this environment.

    I'm still not sure, however. I'm leaning towards Big Show...but I could be swayed.
     
    #30
  6. WrestlingAuthority90

    WrestlingAuthority90 Occasional Pre-Show

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    Bigshow would win. Vader and Andre arent athletic enough to climb the ladder. So Bigshow wins by default. Vader is by far a better wrestler than the other two, but I just dont see him climbing a ladder. I say Bigshow wins just due to the fact that he could probably get up the ladder.
     
    #31
  7. Steamboat Ricky

    Steamboat Ricky WZCW's Living Legend

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    Do me a favor...would you? Go out to your garage. Pull out a ladder. Set it up. Make sure that it locks tightly so it doesn't tip over from being unbalanced. Then, climb it...all the way to the top.

    That was pretty hard wasn't it?

    No? Oh. That's right...because climbing a ladder is one of the easiest tasks on planet Earth. Now...for someone who has been hospitalized...that's a different story. But if someone is agile enough to be in a wrestling ring...surely he can climb a ladder. So the "he's too big and clumsy to climb a ladder" logic is unfounded, to be sure.

    If that's not convincing enough...here is a Vader video showcasing his strange abilities considering his size:

    [youtube]q0FNGOoMkRg[/youtube]
     
    #32
  8. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    Dude, I'm sorry, but that's just a horrible argument. I voted for Big Show, but this doesn't make any sense. If anything, Vader is the most athletic out of the three. He has the ability to perform high flying moves that many are only accustomed to seeing from cruiserweights.

    I voted for Big Show because I think that he would have a slight size and strength advantage over Vader, and Vader may take an a risk on a big move that backfires on him. Vader being unathletic is not a legitimate argument.
     
    #33
  9. Ronin

    Ronin WWE Mark

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    I voted Big Show, because I just don't think Andre would be able to shuffle up a ladder, he had enough trouble walking on flat ground. Also, my memory of Vader consists of him falling on his arse when being a Coach goon.

    Big Show has a strength advantage, and size. I think his knockout punch would be too much for Vader, and for Andre.
     
    #34
  10. SavageTaker

    SavageTaker Everybody Has A Price!

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    You should have voted Vader.

    Andre and Show were about the same size, so The Big Show would also have some trouble shuffling up a ladder.


    You should be ashamed for even bringing that up. When that happened Vader was already past his prime and just wasn't the same Vader from Japan and WCW. If that is all you think Vader is then you need to go to youtube and see some of his earlier work, and hopefully you would think differently because Vader is no one's goon.

    How does strength matter when you are in a match where anything goes? So what if he is stronger than Vader, all Vader needs to do to guarantee himself the win is take out Big Show and Andre with weapons, his opponents could do the same but like I said in the previous round, Vader was a tough SOB and he was a beast without the need of weapons. Just imagine what he would be with the use of any weapon.
     
    #35
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  11. WrestlingAuthority90

    WrestlingAuthority90 Occasional Pre-Show

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    Fat men cannot easily climb a ladder. That's a damn fact. I'm not saying that Vader isnt an exellent wrestler. I'm just saying that he wouldnt realisticly stand a chance in a ladder match. If this was a street fight I would pick Vader to win. But the short and stocky build of Vader isnt going to do him any favors in this match. If Vader wasnt so overweight he'd have a chance. But with his weight the guy would have a damn hard time climbing a ladder while two giants are likely fighting beneath him. Under those conditions I think that Bigshow would be the clear favorite to win. Bigshow is tall and more athletic than the other two wrestlers in this match. That gives you the edge in a ladder match.
     
    #36
  12. Shocky

    Shocky Kissin Babies and Huggin Fat Girlz

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    I think IC got a little overzealous in his scathing remarks of the Big Show,a nd I don't think he means it. He's often called Big Show into his own top five or six in terms of SHW's, so he praises the guy as much as he is criticizing him in this match up.

    There are valid points to be brought up, especially with the Big Show. Yes the man is impressive, but his big match ups, particularly at Wrestlemania, usually end up with him in a loss. Loook it up, the man has won just once at the biggest show of them all, and that was a tag match with Kane over two green rookies in Carlito and Chris Masters.

    The Big Show is about as accomplished as they come. He is the only man to win all 3 of what are, at least in name, the biggest North American Titles of the 1990's. No man can lay claim to the WCW, WWF/E, and ECW titles as his own, but the Big Show.

    However, Big Van Vader, by the Shocky calculator (which is as relevant as you want it to be) puts Big Van Vader's title reigns at 12. The man won both of the major promotional titles in Japan, multiple times, Championships in North America, and World titles in Europe. Now I'm not sure, but I believe Vader is the only man to win World Championships on 3 Different continents. So it's up to you to decide which is more impressive, the Big 3 of the United States, or Champion on 3 Continents, both impressive.

    The Big thing, and it's big, that people tend to be over looking in this match, is Andre the Giant. Statistacally, the Big Man is eliminated from this match, barring a mircale of all mircales. You must keep in mind that the Big Show and Andre the Giant battled each other to a draw.

    Shocky, why is this relevant, why I'm glad you ask. This is professional wrestling, and often times, when two guys go at it, revenge is often the name of the game. Take a look back at the Rumble of 92, Sid eliminates Hulk Hogan. So what does the Mega Baby Face do, he goes back to the locker room of course. No, that's not what happened, Hulk Hogan, the biggest babyface of them all, yanked Sid out of the ring, costing him the WWF title. Look at Summerslam 2000, Kane and the Undertaker battle each other to a No Contest in a nasty fight. One month later, both are involved in a fatal fourway title match with the Rock and Chris Benoit. The Rock has Chris Benoit beaten in the middle of the ring, and the Undertaker was clearly within reach of breaking up the pinfall. However, Kane stopped this from happening, chosing revenge over glory.

    This is wrestling, and often times when two men are involved in a heated affarir that goes nowhere, one or the other is bound to cost the other the match, simpy out of spite. Andre the Giant is the wild card in the whole Big Show/Vader debate, and Andre the Giant would probably go out of his way to make sure that the Big Show doesn't advance.
     
    #37
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  13. Ronin

    Ronin WWE Mark

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    Sorry, seems you misunderstood the shuffling comment, Big Show walks, Andre shuffled. In his prime, he was a giant baby, at least that is the way he walked.

    I've seen youtube videos of Vader. I was impressed, I know he main evented, won titles. Big Show has done the same. WCW, ECW, WWE. First man to have won all three and the only one to do it.

    Strength matters a lot.
    [youtube]RzTfJo2_IOc[/youtube]

    And that punch, koed the Undertaker.

    [youtube]DopDTuL5sII[/youtube]

    Taker beat him with a soft Chokeslam.
     
    #38
  14. SavageTaker

    SavageTaker Everybody Has A Price!

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    I might have misunderstood it. But now I understand it. I think.

    But Vader has won titles in 3 continents. That is something that may seem easy to do but in reality it's a hard thing to do. It is easier to win the top title in the 3 biggest promotions of North America, but way harder to win the top titles in promotions in 3 different continents.


    Strength really only matters when it is a straight up one on one match with no stipulation. Since this match is a ladder match and anything goes then Big Show's strength won't matter much because Vader can easily negated with the use of weapons.

    Also you showed a video of WWF Vader. That is arguably the worst Vader has ever been and it wasn't his fault, because he was good. Vince didn't know how to use Vader and it shows if you compare Vader's work in WCW and Japan to his work in the WWF. I would take that video more seriously if it was in Japan or WCW.
     
    #39
  15. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    At this point I'm sure that everyone can count Andre out, considering he's down by over 30 votes, so we're left with Big Show and Vader. I think that both of these men are very good and capable of winning the match, but I believe that Big Show would be the winner in the end. Here are several reasons why.

    Big Show has a size and strength advantage

    I know a lot of you might discount Big Show's size advantage by saying that it's insignificant against another big man, but it actually will make a difference in this match. Big Show is 7 ft 485 lbs. Vader is 6ft 5 in. 456 lbs. That is a 30 pound weight advantage for Big Show and a 7 inch height advantage. That certainly makes a difference. If Vader was going against a wrestler who was 5 ft 10 in, you would have to argue that height would play a factor.

    For those of you who argue that size and strength don't matter because it's a ladder match, you couldn't be more wrong. It's not just a ladder climbing contest. It's a wrestling match. Big Show will have a size and strength advantage on Vader, and should be able to get the better of him with his strikes. There is no way that Vader can climb the ladder it he's hit with a KO Punch.

    Big Show is a more accomplished wrestler

    Both Big Show and Vader have impressive careers, but I believe that Big Show's was more impressive. According to PWI, Vader has 3 world title reigns and Big Show has 5, including being the first to hold the ECW, WCW, and WWE. He's also a former US Champion, as well as a 3 time Hardcore Champion, which will bode well for him considering weapons are allowed in this match.

    I know that Vader has also won a bunch of titles in Japan, and I'm not discounting them. They're great, but I think that Big Show could have won just as many, if not more, titles than Vader if he went to Japan. Personally, I find Big Show's resume more impressive.

    Big Show has Ladder Match experience

    This is a HUGE advantage that Big Show holds over his two other opponents. I know that he lost that match, but the experience will still be very helpful to him in this one. Since Andre and Vader have never been in a Ladder Match, that won't be sure what to expect going into the match. It will take them awhile to adjust, and Big Show could take the advantage.

    When it comes to actually climbing the ladder, I think Big Show has an advantage over Vader as well. He will be able to balance just as well as him, and won't have to climb as far because of his height. It may not seem like much, but Vader having to climb 1 or 2 extra rungs can allow one of the other participants to recover and knock him down.

    Big Show will nearly be able to match Vader's ability

    The main argument for Vader here is that he is the most agile in the match and that's why he'll win it. I'm not arguing with the fact that Vader is the most agile, but it's closer that a lot of you are making it out to be. I don't need post the Big Show dropkick again, it's already in this thread about 10 times. But, that provides a perfect example of Big Show's agility, which is very impressive for a man his size. The fact that he has the ability to do a moonsault also shows that he matches up pretty well with Vader in terms of agility.

    Even so, I don't think agility will be the most important factor in this match. Sure Vader can jump from the ladder onto someone else, but what good will it really do? It will keep his opponent down for a long time, but Vader will be down, too, even if he hits the move. If Vader misses, who knows how long he'll be down. A Vader moonsault would be the perfect oppurtunity for the 3rd competitor to climb to ladder while the other 2 are down. Since we've established that Andre can't climb the ladder, that man will be Big Show.

    In the end, I think that Big Show's combination of size, strength, experience, accomplisments, and agility is greater than Vader's combination of those skills, and that is why Big Show would win this match.

    Vote Big Show
     
    #40
  16. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    First off, I want to apologize to everyone who feels insulted by my "Worst Post Ever" comments. I of course do not mean them. And Tastycles isn't capable of a bad post anyway. He's too awesome of a poster.

    But the fact remains - Big Show is not as good as Vader, not as versatile as Vader, not as agile as Vader, not as fast as Vader, not as brutal as Vader, not as experienced as Vader, and has not been as successful as Vader.

    Will asked me to examine one of Big Show's "other" title reigns besides the abysmal WWF Title reign that saw him defend against the Big Bossman. Let's look at Show's title reigns.

    1. WCW World Heavyweight Title. Won it after Jimmy Hart interfered to help Hulk Hogan in a match that was LATER explained to be a match in which the title could change hands on a DQ. "The Giant" was stripped of the belt one week later, and did not regain it when he had the chance at World War 3. He then entered a feud with...The Lochness Monster. Title reign #1 later 8 days.

    2. WCW World Heavyweight Title #2. Thismay be his decent reign. He beat Flair for the belt, and the reign lasted 110 days this time. He dropped it to Hogan in less than 3 months

    3. WWF Championship #1. This was the reign I references. He won the belt in a Triple Threat Match that he shouldn't have even been in, with HHH and The Rock. Right place, right time. The reign lasted 50 days - less than 2 months, and featured the amazing Big Bossman feud. Oh baby. Yes, sarcasm.

    4. WWF Championship #2. Show beat Brock Lesnar for the WWE Title when Paul Heyman turned on Brock Lesnar and decided to manage Show instead. This reign lasted a whopping 28 days before he lost to Kurt Angle before going on to be dominated in feuds with Lesnar and The Undertaker.

    5. ECW Championship #1. Actually not a bad reign. Despite being on "The 'C' Show," Wight held his title for 152 days before losing to Bobby Lashley. Of course, his title win was over Rob Van Dam, and occured when Paul Heyman interfered AGAIN. But still, he was a god ECW Champ, I thought.

    Let's also list Wight's Wrestling Observer Awards. Okay, Rookie of the year in '96. Worst feud of the year in 1999 vs The Big Bossman. Worst wrestler for 2 years straight in 2001 and 2002, and "Most Embarassing Wrestler" in 2002. Way to go, Paul.

    Everyone, PLEASE face facts - Paul Wight is pedestrian, at best. He isn't the three-continent legend that Vader is, and he never will be. He's quasi-entertaining, but playing the "monster heel" he's just failing to play the role Vader played so well for so long.

    VOTE VADER.
     
    #41
  17. 48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You

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    The thing that backs up Paul Wight's claim and Wilt's claim is that no one has spoken out against it. There were thousands of people at that basketball game and if Wilt didn't really score a hundred, there'd sure be people letting us know.

    Why can't he wait on the outside? Big Show is easily the smartest wrestler in this match. A heel Big Show would wait outside the ring and wait, as the other two knock each other's heads off. He wouldn't lose the match that way. None of these men are very quick, no matter what you say about Vader. He was slow. He can't climb a ladder as fast as Big Show can slide in the ring and knock it over.
     
    #42
  18. 48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You

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    I'm going to channel my inner Y 2 Jake.

    Vader is a fat man. He has a large beer belly, likely the product of Coors Lite. (He does live in the Denver.) Now, I realize that he is athletic for his size and that he can do a moonsault and dropkick and what not, but I beg the question: Can Vader really climb a ladder?

    We've established that Andre likely couldn't climb a ladder due to his weight and clumsiness and it has been said that Big Show and Vader are well enough balanced to complete one of the most simplistic tasks in the world. I say he can't.

    You see, Vader (pictured here)

    [​IMG]

    is much like a tyrannosaurus-rex. (pictured here)

    [​IMG]

    Both creatures are notably fierce and vicious, but have one shortcoming. In order to climb a ladder, one must place one hand over the over and step up the rungs. Sounds simple enough, right? So why can't Vader climb the ladder? Like the t-rex, Vader's arms are too short for his body. With his abnormally large stomach, he won't be able to grab hold of the rungs to climb. You cannot win a ladder match without climbing the ladder.

    Now, I haven't ever had any evidence of Vader with ladders to work with, but I believe it is a very plausible idea.
     
    #43
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  19. ZEUS

    ZEUS Pre-Show Stalwart

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    That is, well, um, f'ing ridiculous. Vader can't climb a ladder because his stomach is in the way and his arms are too short? That is just stupid. He was a big man, yes, but I don't care how big or fat a guy is, he can climb a ladder, unless his arms are literally 3 inches long. I hope you are drunk or something, at least then you have an excuse for coming up with that one.
     
    #44
  20. ZEUS

    ZEUS Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Big Show, smart? Not really. If he was so smart, he would have a better won-loss ratio. For the record, Big Show is also the laziest of the three. He would probably show up to the match overweight, with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth, and a short mid match nap would cause him to not realize that Vader was climbing the rungs.
     
    #45
  21. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    WOW. Just wow. I mean, what kind of argument is that? His ARMS are too short? Now, PYT, you're a great poster, but this. This just doesn't set well with me. Vader's arms are short, but not to the point of hindering him climbing a damn ladder. He's got a gut, but it's what is known as a 'work gut'. See, the man's built like a machine. He does have a gut, but the man's in great shape and was a football player. If any two superstars couldn't climb the ladder, it would be Show and Andre.

    Vader wins because he's tougher, stronger, and can CLIMB THE LADDER. Ugh.
     
    #46
  22. 48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You

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    You actually thought that was a serious post? :lmao: You see, I just got finished with doing my English paper while listening to my little brother watch 'Meet The Robinsons'... You ever see that movie? Well, there is this part where the T-Rex makes this gurgling noise which is him saying, "I've got a big head, but little arms..." It reminded me of Vader and his gut. Really though, that gut must hinder his ladder climbing ability, if there is such a thing. :)
     
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  23. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    I was gonna say...man...lulz.

    I have seen that movie. Was OK. But in all fairness, Vader's much tougher and can climb a ladder easier than Big Show or Andre. His arms are short and might be a detour as to get him to climb, but it won't stop him.
     
    #48
  24. 48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You

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    I win! I've convinced you that Vader has short arms! Do I get a prize? ;)

    Big Show has very long arms and legs. In fact, they are so long that he can skip every other rung while climbing, thus giving him the advantage in that department. But, then again, it's a bit pathetic that we're really discussing who can climb the ladder best. :lmao:
     
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  25. TheOneBigWill

    TheOneBigWill [This Space for Rent]

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    David Arquette & Vince Russo have both won the W.C.W Heavyweight Championship. Vince McMahon has won the W.W.F Heavyweight Championship. Billy Kidman has defeated Hulk Hogan by pinfall. Triple H has lost to the Brooklyn Brawler.

    Sorry.. I tend to ramble.. the point, you're wondering? It's basically this:

    Just because someone out-matches their opponents, in every single way possible.. doesn't mean that the outcome always favors those who're the best in the match. Therefore, saying that Vader is the best - doesn't guarantee him the victory.. nor does it mean he stands any better of a chance than Andre or Big Show. It just means he's in better condition, but nothing an off-balanced, awkward ladder shot couldn't hinder.

    Yes, he's fought with massively bodily injuries - so you repeat as much as I do "Edge is the Ultimate Opportunist". Once again, all that proves is he's very injury prone - and sooner or later, it could catch up to him.

    I think the impressive point is, he defeated Hulk Hogan. Regardless of someone helping him or not - he still defeated Hulk Hogan.

    The other thing I feel you're casting out on Show as if it was stupid - is his feud with Lochness. You use the full name, basically to give those who never knew the impression that it was some massive failure. (which in all credit, it was) However at the time - Lochness was being build as a powerful opponent, and a formidable challenge.

    He also defeated Sting and Lex Luger in back-to-back Pay per views. Not to mention, he only lost to Hogan thanks in part to Scott Hall, Kevin Nash and Brutus the Barber Beefcake. (you failed to mention that, yet included all the times Show won a title w/ help - why?)

    What does "right place, right time" have to do with anything? I could easily say Vader's eating disorder and ability to withstand punishment put him in situations that made it considerably "right place, right time". That's a bad argument when the truth is - Big Show defeated two guys that were above him in popularity, and talent. He overcame two of the three biggest names in the business at that time, for the W.W.F. (Why is that hard for you to admit?)

    And yes, he feuded with the Bossman. Was it horrible? YES! But it was a grudge that involved Bossman doing something that hasn't been done hardly (if ever before) in which he disgraced "Big Show's Father, and Family" including an unforgettable "casket ride" scene.

    Stupid yes, but obviously not forgettable. Big Show holds more memorable moments than Vader - this is obvious by all the lack-luster moments you're trying to use against Show that people remember - as opposed to all the big moments Vader's had, that even die hard fans don't fully recall.

    Once again, you hide the full details about the situation. The Big Show did something no one else had been able to do - defeat the undefeated Brock Lesnar.

    And yes, his Championship reign only lasted from Pay per view to Pay per view, ending against Kurt Angle - but once again you leave out that it was due to Paul Heyman AND Brock Lesnar double crossing the Big Show, each. (Heyman went w/ Angle, while Lesnar seeked revenge on Show)

    As for the feuds against Taker and Lesnar - Big Show lost the majority of them, but was hardly dominated in them. He took the fight to both men, and gave each of them "history". He helped both men become better, by notching their belts in rememberable matches against them. (once again, matches you recall - so they must be worth something)

    Oh - but let's not forget, Vader lost the majority of his matches against the Undertaker as well. (in fact, his only memorable victory came thanks to Paul Bearer at the 1997 Royal Rumble - but when Vader got a Championship match later that year, he failed to capitalize on it)

    This (to me) was honestly Big Show's most dominating run as Champion, and in a time when the E.C.W initials still (barely) stood for what they're always going to be known for. Extreme.

    Show defeated everyone famous from the E.C.W days, that crossed over. Guys like; Rob Van Dam, (with and without help from Heyman) Sabu, Tommy Dreamer, Justin Credible, Balls Mahoney, and others.

    His lost to Lashley wasn't horrible, either. Considering the surroundings of the first (and only) Extreme Elimination Chamber. At least you admit him being a good Champion - but I sense sarcasm and disdain from the "on the 'C' Show" comment.

    So, in 1999 despite winning a Championship in a match w/ Triple H and the Rock, an IWC lead magazine moves to notice a horrible feud with an undeserving challenger in the Bossman. Okay.

    In 2001 he was forgotten in my opinion, in what could've been a much larger (no pun intended) role for him in the W.C.W/W.W.E wars. So while I wouldn't say "worst" wrestler (since Meat was a big part of that angle) I would consider Show to be the forgotten Superstar of 2001.

    Meanwhile, in 2002 I'll fully argee that he was likely the Worst Wrestler of the year. He was thrust into the n.W.o angle, only to drop matches to guys like Booker T, X-Pac, Bubba Ray Dudley, and Jeff Hardy.

    His only saving grace was how he ended 2002, defeating the undefeated Lesnar. Which is naturally not going to be noticed because of the much bigger portion of stupidity he carried throughout the year. Also, yes - losing matches to X-Pac, Booker T, and Jeff Hardy (all when they're not in 'top condition' or being pushed majorly) is embarrassing. So that 'award' is correct by my standards as well.

    So, on the flip side your boy got the following..

    Best Heel (1993)
    Best Wrestling Maneuver (1993) Moonsault
    Most Improved Wrestler (1999)
    Wrestler of the Year (1993)
    Wrestling Observer Newsletter Hall of Fame (Class of 1996)

    Out of that, you have to look at the situations.. 1993 seems to be a year Vader was big in. Who else was big in 1993? Yokozuna, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, (when he was still coming into his own) Doink the Clown, Hulk Hogan, Lex Luger?

    In the thick of things, that's not a bad list to be better than - with the overshadowed exception that Hart & Michaels were just coming into their own as stars, Luger was being seen as an "All-American" that people never took to, Hogan was on his way out, and well.. a Clown is also apart of the mix - need I truly say more? Yokozuna was the only individual who truly matched Vader through identical abilities - and the W.W.E made Yokozuna look unstoppable (sans Mania IX) throughout all of 93. What was Vader doing then?

    From the looks of it - he was trading the W.C.W Heavyweight Championship back and forth with Sting, and defending it against the likes of the British Bulldog & Dustin Rhodes. (yes folks, Goldust - was a Heavyweight contender to Vader :rolleyes:) Throughout the rest of the year, Vader feuded with Mick Foley, defeating him at Halloween Havoc (thanks ONLY because of Harley Race) and then dropped the title to Flair, at the biggest Pay per view for W.C.W - Starrcade.

    That was Vader's best year - a series of feuds w/ Sting (great), followed by forgettable challengers in Davey Boy Smith & Dustin Rhodes, (lame) a nice feud with Foley that Vader needed help winning in, (so-so) a Tag team that many won't remember w/ Sid Vicious, (could've worked) and losing to Flair. (really? The dominating, unstoppable Vader - lost to.. Flair.. rigggghhhhttttt.)

    But on both notes - how much do either guy's awards really mean in determining who's going to win a ladder match, right? About as much as who's had more significant affect on the business. (the mainstream, portion, anyways)

    By the way - that'd be The Big Show.

    You forgot to mention how despite not being Vader, the Big Show has managed to stay mainstream in one of the two top Companies for 14 straight years. How long was Vader in a mainstream Company, again?

    Irish, you know I love your posts and think you're carrying Vader through this tournament greatly. I just wanna know you're truly trying to showcase Vader for being the best against both individuals (or in this case, all the individuals - poor Andre is just left flat out) when what it seems you've been doing is condescending Big Show's greatest achievements by claiming they're somewhat undeserving, or flukish.

    When you're neglecting to showcase that he's had a much greater career through W.W.E and W.C.W than Vader ever had.

    Yes, Vader is a 'Legend' (quote, unquote) on multiple continents. But truly, he's the smallest of the three names - on the one continent that truly matters the most, as far as mainstream goes.. and that's this one.

    I'm still unswayed and undecided on who to vote for. But I do love Vader.. I just haven't found a way to truly believe because the guy's ability to be strong through being injury prone is his key to victory. And that's what I see you pushing the most right now.
     
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