ECW Region, Third Round, Last Man Standing Match: (4) Ric Flair vs. (12) Randy Orton

[klunderbunker]

This is a third round match in the ECW Region. It is a last man standing match held under ECW Rules. It will be held at the Wells Fargo Center, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Rules: The match will continue until one person cannot answer a ten count. No pinfalls or submissions are required.

#4. Ric Flair

Vs.

#12. Randy Orton

​

This match takes place one week after round 2.

Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Damn, what a match up. This is another one of the gimmicks which I find not to be a factor as both of these guys have had an equal amount of ups and downs in these types of matches.

I usually would go to the "Who's the bigger star?" argument, but at Flairs peak he did a lot of jobbing to the top faces. Orton is absolutely a top face, so there's a chance he would get the rub. However, as a top face, Orton tends to do more jobbing than others, as evident by his recent encounters with Christian, Mark Henry, and Kane.

Such a tough draw. I think I'm going to go with Flair here. If this were a blowoff match to end a long feud, yeah, Orton would probably take it. But it's a third round matchup in a tournament, so Flair finds a way to advance.

 

[TheNickster]

Hmm, this one is tough. Orton is great at surprising his opponent, so he could catch Flair by surprise with the RKO and get him down for at least 5 however The Dirtiest Player in the game has enough tricks up his sleeve when the match is a regular 1 on 1 singles match, so add in the fact that there are no disqualifications, and Flair could do some great work. In the WWE, he has shown he still has some resiliency when he was wrestling back in 2008 at 50+ years.

I'll have to say that Flair would win this one.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I'm leaning towards Orton on this one. He has defeated HHH and Punk in Last Man Standing matches. I just don't know what Flair will have in his arsenal to put down Orton. I don't think Orton is going to pass out to the Figure Four. HHH was still able to make it when he faced Flair. Orton may hit one RKO but Flair is resilient so he'll get back up and get hit with maybe one or two more.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Flair wins this easily.

Now I know what you're thinking... 'LARIAT LIKEZ HIS OLD SKOOLERZ! BOOO!'

Well shut up, fat boy, and read why Space Mountain wins this bout.

All Flair's known for is for three things. His championships, his partying, and being the SIXTY...MINUTE MAN! Flair wrestled 45-60 minutes on a REGULAR basis. Before it was a gimmick match. Flair has won the World Championship 16 times that's recognized and maybe even more than that. Flair's a big match guy who may get his tail kicked for most of the match, but he rarely leaves with an L on his record.

Randy Orton's never been in a match that's reached 60 minutes or faced a wrestler as good as Flair was in his prime. Orton beat CM Punk in a last man standing match last year, but also lost to HHH in a similar match.

Flair's simply someone who can debilitate you to the point of not standing up for a 10 count. The figure four leg lock can do fatal damage in this kind of match. The RKO could potentially do the job, but Flair's gotten up from more damage than an RKO. It would take more than one RKO to beat Flair, and the Nature Boy's not stupid enough to get caught up in that move more that once, if at all. Orton's stubborn nature can get him to take higher risks and cause himself to be injured... or be caught in a predicament where Flair can do damage to him.

Flair wins this in a bloody brawl that leaves Orton with a broken leg and wounded pride.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[jmt225]

Ric Flair is perhaps the most resilient wrestler in the history of the sport. The man can take a beating like no other. You will literally have to kill him to keep him down 10 seconds to win a high profile match.

The thing is, Randy Orton is willing to kill him to make that happen. Orton is ruthless, and a tough motherfucker in his own right.

Could he kill Flair, though?

I mean, Orton had trouble with a nearly 60-year-old Flair in a cage match (fantastic match, btw), why should I believe he could put down a prime Flair in a Last Man Standing match?

Maybe because Orton will do anything to win, against anyone. Even against his fucking father if he had to. The guy can be pure evil, and his sadisticness is matched by his intelligence. He's not a dumb ass who will easily fall into a trap by being overly aggressive... he knows what he has to do in there to win, and methodically carries out his sick and twisted gameplans.

That said, just because Orton is capable of keeping anyone down doesn't necessarily mean he could keep Ric Flair down. Flair is the dirtiest player in the game, remember? And he's just as intelligent as Orton and is just like him when it comes doing anything to win.

This is as even of a match-up as you could ever have in a tournament like this, and one I really wish we could see. Who would actually win the match.... your guess is as good as mine.

When the kayfabe argument is this even in my mind, I have to vote for the person with the better career, and while Orton has been an incredible wrestler since 2004 and I have the utmost respect for his abilities and for what he has been able to accomplish to this point, Ric Flair is a top 3 GOAT, and I can't vote for Orton over him. Maybe if someone can make a convincing argument why Orton would beat him in this match, I'll consider changing my vote, but for now I have to go with Flair.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I'm leaning towards Orton on this one. He has defeated HHH and Punk in Last Man Standing matches. I just don't know what Flair will have in his arsenal to put down Orton. I don't think Orton is going to pass out to the Figure Four. HHH was still able to make it when he faced Flair. Orton may hit one RKO but Flair is resilient so he'll get back up and get hit with maybe one or two more.

Passing out's one thing, but getting your leg broken or injured's another. Flair wouldn't be foolish enough to let an RKO go down more than once. Also, it's tough to hit that move when you only have one good wheel... Orton's also prone to injuries, and Flair's rarely been disabled long enough to be down for a 10 count.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Lariat has already managed to make my head hurt and I remember him using a part of this same argument when Flair faced Batista two years ago. Why in the blue hell does Flair regularly wrestling 45-60 minute matches have any relevance in this particular bout? Hell, this match could last 10 minutes for all I know. This isn't a regular wrestling match so I couldn't give a fuck how long a Flair match can go.

That Orton loss that you're referring to is when Orton broke his collarbone. He's beaten HHH twice in LMS matches. Flair has also lost big match after big match so I don't know what you're trying to sell.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I think I'm still going with Flair here, but I want to address something.

Randy Orton's never been in a match that's reached 60 minutes or faced a wrestler as good as Flair was in his prime.

I'm pretty sure Orton beat John Cena in an Iron Man Match a few years ago.

Besides, what does time length have to do with this?

Orton beat CM Punk in a last man standing match last year, but also lost to HHH in a similar match.

I don't recall Orton ever losing to Triple in a Last Man Standing Match. I remember him beating him in one and drawing in another.

I'm still leaning toward Flair here for the reasons I stated above, but there were some flaws here.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Passing out's one thing, but getting your leg broken or injured's another. Flair wouldn't be foolish enough to let an RKO go down more than once. Also, it's tough to hit that move when you only have one good wheel... Orton's also prone to injuries, and Flair's rarely been disabled long enough to be down for a 10 count.

Flair was foolish enough to get hit with three Pedigrees and I know that HHH needed a sledgehammer to finish him off. Who is to say that Flair would try to get up from a second or third RKO and Randy just punts his head in the fourth row? I'm sure Orton can hit a RKO with one leg.

 

[The_Sharpshooter]

Two of my favorite heels. I love Flair's greatness & what he represents to wrestling, but I don't see how you pick against Orton in this setting & matchup. No Horsemen, No Legacy, No Evolution makes it easier for me. Last Man Standing with the Viper? Flair will be the 1st man to get punted twice in the same segment.

I look at each man's arsenal & I don't see anything that Flair has to keep Orton down for a 10 count. I've seen Flair with brass knuckles on occasion, but thats not too extreme. Maybe Pildrive Orton on the floor? Nah, back body drop written all over it.

With the bloodthirsty ECW fans, I can definitely see Orton punt Flair and be egged on to do it again. "One More Time!" Flair is better than Orton, but the stipulation is what ends up being his downfall

 

[TheNickster]

I think I'm still going with Flair here, but I want to address something.



I'm pretty sure Orton beat John Cena in an Iron Man Match a few years ago.

Besides, what does time length have to do with this?



I don't recall Orton ever losing to Triple in a Last Man Standing Match. I remember him beating him in one and drawing in another.

I'm still leaning toward Flair here for the reasons I stated above, but there were some flaws here.

Actually, Cena beat Orton. 6-5. I think what Lariat is getting at is that Flair just won't stay down, so it would probably be a pretty lengthy match and since Flair has contested many long matches, he would have an advantage.

 

[Loveless]

Passing out's one thing, but getting your leg broken or injured's another. Flair wouldn't be foolish enough to let an RKO go down more than once. Also, it's tough to hit that move when you only have one good wheel... Orton's also prone to injuries, and Flair's rarely been disabled long enough to be down for a 10 count.

My feeling was Orton but this changed my mind. In a match where Flair can put on the figure-four and has no reason to release it, Randy's legs are an immediate target in what could be a very long match. Orton relies on

1. The RKO out of nowhere, which is difficult to hit quickly when your mobility is fucked
2. The Punt, which is the same

Flair is winning this, either by breaking an ankle or the brass knuckles.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

I have to go with Randy Orton, after a long and bloody battle. There are so many factors to take in here, but almost all of them cancel each other out. Flair is possibly the greatest of all time, but as was already mentioned, he was always willing to lose to top face if it was necessary. Not to mention, Randy Orton MADE his career out of killing legends - if I'm not mistaken Flair's name is on that list.

This isn't really about longevity, it's about incapacitating your opponent with enough force and effectiveness to keep him down. I have no doubt that Flair would keep getting up, but Orton has the more high-impact moveset giving him an edge. Flair can only take so many hangman's DDTs before his head starts swimming and the Viper takes over.

I'm sure Flair could get Orton in the Figure Four and hold on to it until he passed out in a pool of his own saliva, but if Orton can crawl to his knees using Flair's body he could drop the RKO out of nowhere at any time. And if ALL else fails...if Ric Flair just refuses to stay down no matter how many chair shots, DDT's, or RKO's he withstands...there's always the Punt. Flair might just be the only man that Orton would think twice about using it on, but if the honor of a tournament like this was on the line and Flair's head was the only thing standing in between him and victory, you better believe he'd be willing to pull the trigger.

Vote: Randy Orton

 

[JJYanks121]

This is last man standing which means anything goes in order to incapacitate your opponent for 10 seconds right? Yeah, this one favors Orton for sure.

Of the two, Ric was known for weaseling his way out of situations while Orton is known for being utterly sadistic. In this setting, the guy who is willing to lose all sense of conscience will win. Orton is much more willing to do that than Flair. Flair is the "dirtiest player in the game", but do you really think a low blow is going to keep down the Viper? He'll see the low blow and probably throw a table in Flair's face.

Flair's the bigger star but this match setting made this an easy decision for me. Orton moves on.

 

[steve_smith]

This is simple. Top heel goes over average face.

In a tournament like this, Flair is a top heel (If not THE top heel). There is not too many heels that can generate as much heat as The Nature Boy. He cheats his way through over moderately strong face (generating more heat).

And Orton, imo, comes across relatively average by this tournaments standard. No way does Orton go over, arguably, the Top heel.

Also, no one can use Nature's time at WWE as an arguement for Orton. Flair was 50 years old.

 

[nightmare]

Flair.

Why? Because after getting his ass kicked for 10-15 minutes Flair hits a low blow and starts to go to work. He hits Randy with everything he can but the kid wont stay down. So what is the dirtiest player in the game to do? Work the legs. Flair will chop block, chair shot and put the Figure Four on Orton till he can barely get to his knees let alone stand for the 10. If Orton cant stand under his own weight, the RKO and Punt Kick are taken out of the equation.


Flair will be beaten up and bloody, but he will keep Orton grounded long enough to win. To win this match you dont always have to be the bigger man, just smarter and not afraid to play dirty. Flair isnt scared and will be able to do just that.

 

[The Brain]

I voted for Randy Orton over Terry Funk and just felt wrong doing it. I’m not voting him over Flair. As JMT said, Flair is resilient and can take enormous punishment. I definitely see a bloody Flair getting his ass kicked but continuing to rise at the count of nine. A frustrated Orton will make a mistake and Flair will go on the attack. It will be pretty much a dead heat as the match climaxes and with both men down I see Flair barely making it to his feet at nine before immediately collapsing in a pool of his own blood as Orton stays down for the ten count.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

This is simple. Top heel goes over average face.

In a tournament like this, Flair is a top heel (If not THE top heel). There is not too many heels that can generate as much heat as The Nature Boy. He cheats his way through over moderately strong face (generating more heat).

And Orton, imo, comes across relatively average by this tournaments standard. No way does Orton go over, arguably, the Top heel.

Also, no one can use Nature's time at WWE as an arguement for Orton. Flair was 50 years old.

Why are you assuming that Orton will be the "average face"? Of course I could point out that your "top heel goes over average" theory has flaws since Jericho, Edge and Cena have won Last Man Standing matches as faces. If I'm going to use primes as an argument, then Orton's prime and best years success wise was as a heel.

I can use Nature Boy's time in WWE as an argument. Everyone says he's the dirtiest player in the game and so on and so forth. I've read that Flair would just slap the Figure Four on until Orton passes out or can't stand and shit. Flair went into his match with HHH knowing that Hunter had had two torn quads so you would think he had the advantage. He slapped the Figure Four on a couple of times and what happened. Eventually, HHH got out of it and went on to beat Flair.

 

[ProudFlairMark]

It's the difference between good and great. Or perhaps great and greater, when all is said and done in Orton's career. As good as Orton is, and make no mistake about it, Orton is very good - he is not, nor will he ever be, Ric Flair. Flair's arsenal, while not as high impact as Orton's, is second to none. If you check out any classic Flair bout, you know what he's capable of. Orton would put up a helluva fight, but in the end, pass out from a whack with a tireiron to get the 10 count.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Flair.

Why? Because after getting his ass kicked for 10-15 minutes Flair hits a low blow and starts to go to work. He hits Randy with everything he can but the kid wont stay down. So what is the dirtiest player in the game to do? Work the legs. Flair will chop block, chair shot and put the Figure Four on Orton till he can barely get to his knees let alone stand for the 10. If Orton cant stand under his own weight, the RKO and Punt Kick are taken out of the equation.


Flair will be beaten up and bloody, but he will keep Orton grounded long enough to win. To win this match you dont always have to be the bigger man, just smarter and not afraid to play dirty. Flair isnt scared and will be able to do just that.

Flair can chop block and chair shot and Figure Four all he wants to but you can't convince me that Orton still wouldn't be able to hit a RKO. It's not like Orton has to run half across the ring to do it. I've seen many a match where Orton's opponent thinks that he is injured or whatnot and gets caught with the RKO. Orton isn't a stranger to playing dirty and doing what it takes to win. I just don't think Flair has enough in his arsenal to take Orton down and Orton can use weapons too in case anybody forgot.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I think I'm still going with Flair here, but I want to address something.



I'm pretty sure Orton beat John Cena in an Iron Man Match a few years ago.

Besides, what does time length have to do with this?

Flair's strategy would be to make sure the match goes as long as possible, and in a last man standing match, stamina will have a lot to do with who can get up 20 minutes in, or 30 minutes... or however long it takes for Flair to wear Orton down

I don't recall Orton ever losing to Triple in a Last Man Standing Match. I remember him beating him in one and drawing in another.

I'm still leaning toward Flair here for the reasons I stated above, but there were some flaws here.

It's possible. Seen a match with Orton and HHH in a LMS, but didn't really bother to watch it. Withdrawn. But I can safely say that Flair's longevity and Orton's inability to stay healthy in this match can be his downfall. As good as HHH and CM Punk are, they'll say they're not in Flair's league themselves.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Why are you assuming that Orton will be the "average face"? Of course I could point out that your "top heel goes over average" theory has flaws since Jericho, Edge and Cena have won Last Man Standing matches as faces. If I'm going to use primes as an argument, then Orton's prime and best years success wise was as a heel.

I can use Nature Boy's time in WWE as an argument. Everyone says he's the dirtiest player in the game and so on and so forth. I've read that Flair would just slap the Figure Four on until Orton passes out or can't stand and shit. Flair went into his match with HHH knowing that Hunter had had two torn quads so you would think he had the advantage. He slapped the Figure Four on a couple of times and what happened. Eventually, HHH got out of it and went on to beat Flair.

In the WWE, he wasn't in his prime. In the NWA, where he lost maybe 2-3 times cleanly in nearly 15 years... that's Flair's prime. Orton's prime will never compare to the Nature Boy. And HHH didn't have two torn quads. His legs were weaker than Orton's legs, but that doesn't mean they were 'torn'. Flair was also nearly 60 years old in that match with HHH and even if HHH was off his game, Flair nearly took him out. In his prime, Flair beats ANYONE. Period.

As good as Orton is, in this match, it favors Flair.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Flair was foolish enough to get hit with three Pedigrees and I know that HHH needed a sledgehammer to finish him off. Who is to say that Flair would try to get up from a second or third RKO and Randy just punts his head in the fourth row? I'm sure Orton can hit a RKO with one leg.

Maybe, but a punt is a different story. Flair wasn't born yesterday. He's the Dirtiest Player in the Game by taking cheapshots, gouging eyes, and managing to find a way to hurt someone. I can list so many examples of people who tried to take Flair head on in a match and one mistake... ONE... cost them the match.

All Flair needs is an opening. Orton goes for the punt, Flair plays possum, Orton misses the punt, Flair catches his leg, and drops it on his knee... Orton's in pain... can't move around so much. And all of a sudden, Orton's a one legged man. And as injury prone as Orton is, this match would be about an average bout for him during his prime.

 

[Tastycles]

Is there anyone in history who has been able to take more of a pasting than Flair and still win? I don't like either of them, so I hope they both lose, but there's no way I could see Orton winning this. Yes, he could dole out punishment all day, and yes he could probably hit an RKO, but finishers alone almost never win these matches. Flair is more cunning and more resilient, so he'd definitely win in my eyes.