ECW Region, Mexico Subregion, Second Round: (7) Roddy Piper vs. (10) Kane

Discussion in 'ECW Region' started by Tastycles, Apr 24, 2012.

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Who Wins This Match?

  1. Roddy Piper

  2. Kane

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Con T.

    Con T. Yaz ain't enough, I need Fluttershy

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    You're votin for Piper, so I won't be screaming and ranting and raving too much. But I just can't let this sentence go.

    6 times he won the Wrestling Observer award for Worst Feud Of the Year Award. In a fifteen year career. And that isn't counting his run as Fake Diesel and Isaac Yankem. And, at least twice, he actually finished second in the same years he won Worst Feud of the Year.

    People argue he isn't run of the mill, and I ask you; what should I make of his past gimmicks, too? People want me to believe Kane would have had staying power; this is the same guy that was Issac Yankem and Fake Diesel. How long did that work out for him? Face it, Kane gets an extended stay because he's tied to the Undertaker. If the Undertaker suffered a career threatening injury years ago, Kane would outlive his usefulness, they'd try to repackage him, it wouldn't get over, and we'd repeat the process.

    History sides with me on this one
     
    #26
  2. GI Cake

    GI Cake Thank God For Sodamy.

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    Piper produced hella good T.V for the fans. He is a entertaining, and funny guy. And he is no soft cookie by any means. The man in his prime could hang with the best of them. Kane on the other hand isn't really the best example of good T.V. Like Pippa said, he's had some shit feuds and angles and just turned out awful. I still cringe at the sight of the Kane/Lita angle.

    But we are talking Kayfabe here, and in kayfabe, all these gad awful angles Kane was a monster and a sick, demented man. He'd destroy people and light them on fire for fun. Piper was a smart, cowardly heel. But Piper has never met the kind of monster Kane is. Kane isn't a dumb meat head like Boss Man or Mark Henry. He is capable of keeping up with Piper mentally. Add to that, Kane has taken tougher hits from tougher men. Piper can send a flurry at chair shots at Kane, that won't stop Kane from getting up and doing the same to the smaller, and frailer man.

    Despite shitty television and angles. Kane is a monster, their is no tip-toeing around that. And as a monster, he will beat Piper.
     
    #27
  3. Alex

    Alex King Of The Wasteland

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    Kane's had fuck all to do with Undertaker for eight years now. Sure he started off as Undertaker's brother but he came into his own and has had decent fueds with other people. If Kane was so shit why wouldn't have WWE canned by now like TNA did with Judas Mesias after the Abyss angle?? Because he's actually good.

    Onto who would actually win I think it depends on what Kane we're talking about. From 1997 to 2003 It would be a tough call because Kane was a pretty dominant character, after that era Piper would definitely be able to win (Kane lost to Rey Mysterio afterall)
     
    #28
  4. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    It's nice to see that you're still treasting Meltzer's opinions as facts. This is the same guy that named Hulk Hogan worst wrestler of the year, and gave him worst feud of year 4 times, and worst worked match of the year 4 times.

    Based on this are you going to call Hogan shit because Meltzer think so?

    Er... non canon to the current character perhaps? Unless you plan on voting
    Christian over Stone Cold because Steve Austin sucked as the Ringmaster; that would of course make you an idiot.

    And this is based on what? Your own opinions because you so biasedly hate the character? Kane has done pretty well for himself when he's not tied to the Undertaker, well enough to land himself several programs with relevance in the main event. And before you go trying to find more instances of shitty Kane television, if his programs were that bad why does the man still have a job? Even in 2007 when the character was being jobbed out, WWE never got rid of him. It's pretty damn clear that WWE finds a purpose for the chracter without being Undertaker's foil. If Undertaker were to retire this year, I'd be willing to bet WWE'd keep the Kane character around for another 3 to 5 years before Jacobs retired as well.
     
    #29
  5. Con T.

    Con T. Yaz ain't enough, I need Fluttershy

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    What part of six times in the last fifteen years did you not understand? Decent feuds with other people? Name them, please. I'm dying to know these decent feuds. Is it the feud with Shane over his fried testes? Or how about that feud with Jericho over coffee?

    Besides, when creative has nothing for Kane, they go right back to the same old feud/ reuniting feud with Undertaker. Or did you forget 2004, and Wrestlemania 20? How about two years ago?

    And did you miss when Taker and Kane reunited for SNITSKY and Heidenreich? Or Kennedy and MVP?

    I suppose I should also qualify my above statement with "when Taker is around, too". It's either:

    A. Feud with Undertaker
    B. Reunited with Undertaker
    C. Shitty feuds.

    Or do you have some of those decent Kane feuds for me?
     
    #30
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  6. Con T.

    Con T. Yaz ain't enough, I need Fluttershy

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    Uh, those awards are voted on by he readership of the WO. Fans, just like you and me, man. If it were just Meltzer, fine, but isn't. These were fans that voted these words. If you're going to diss that, at least get your facts right.



    No, off the fact that Yankem and Fake Diesel lasted a combined one year in the WWE. Again, not that they were grey characters. Also, lulz at your attempt to use Austin. Austin actually ha great work and potential that shined before he was Stone Cold. We all had a reason to think Stone Cold would be great. Kane never provided anything like that, just failed gimmicks.




    Because his gimmick is tied to one of the most legendary gimmicks in the history of the WWE.

    That, and he doesn't mind doing jobs
     
    #31
  7. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    Sounds like a bunch of smarks to me; in fact, that pretty much the only audience that the guy would cater to. I'm sure that any causal wrestling fan [you know, the ones that make up about 85% of the WWE's fanbase] wouldn't have the first clue who the fuck Dave Meltzer is or what the fuck the Wrestler Observer is.

    Nice try though.

    It's the same thing though; no one in their right mind would use the Ringmaster in an attempt to belittle Stone Cold, so Yankem and Fake Diesel shouldn't be used to belittle Kane because they aren't canon.

    And lulz at potential... the Shockmaster also had potential... the Ringmaster was a failed gimmick for whatever reasons just like Yankem and Fake Diesel.

    Tied to yes, but revolves around? Kane hasn't done anything with the Undertaker since 2010, and before that it was 2004. Kane does just fine on his own.

    He also doesn't mind being involved in programs and feuds that revolve around the world or WWE title every other month. He's arguably the most versatile performer on the roster, and has been for years.
     
    #32
  8. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    Decent Kane feuds, huh? I can think of several, but the likelyhood of you blowing them off because you unbiasedly hate Kane is pretty high...

    His feud with Xpac was great, his feud with Chris Beniot was stellar, the match he had with HHH and Goldberg is one of my favorites, his feud with Edge was noteworthy, I found his matches with Batista and Great Khali to be entertaining, his matches with Mysterio were pretty good, as were the one's with Big Show. His recent matches with Cena and Orton were both great.

    As a Kane fan, I can say I enjoyed all of these matches and feuds. And you can't say my taste is shit because I like Old School and Puro as well. I'm diverse.
     
    #33
  9. Con T.

    Con T. Yaz ain't enough, I need Fluttershy

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    That is essentially what you just said. Look, I get it, you want to discredit WO, but have you ever at least tried it? Doesn't it seem somewhat ignorant to bash something you've never tried yourself?

    But, if you want another little anecdote; remember good ol' May 19th, and Fake Kane? They had the build for that, and it played out like it was going to be a long term feud. They had a match on Vengeance, and they had a blowoff match the next night on Raw.

    Why? Because fans hated the feud so much, the WWE had to pull the plug immediately. Immediately, Echelon; the next night, they ended the feud. If only they had done the same thing with plenty of other feuds, but if you're looking for a case of the "non-smark" hating Kane's feuds, there you go.

    Or will you argue fans loved Katie Vick?

    Granted, I understand your points about Stone Cold and Ringmaster. The difference is, Stone Cold had done something of note outside of being the Ringmaster. Steve showed that he could be a star, and that he was a great worker in the ring. I don't understand your point about Shockmaster... I'm assuming it has to do with his gimmick had potential? Sure, but if you look at the man behind Shockmaster, there wasn't much substance. Steve Austin had a legitimate substance. That's why people just note that Austin had a bad character.



    Tell me, how many times are the Brothers of Destruction reunited? You're pointing out when they feud; I'm pointing to when they feud, and when they work together. That, or it's back to bad television with Kane




    Edit; I saw your lisiting. Am I supposed to take more creedence into your thoughts, just because you say you like old school and puro? Kane can have decent matches, he's a decent worker, especially for someone his size. It doesn't change how much horrible television the Kane feud has produced. And while you may have liked them, I distinctly remember no one else giving a fuck
     
    #34
  10. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    While I'm a bigger fan of Piper than Kane, I've heard nothing whatsoever from any Piper supporters thus far to make me believe that Piper wouldn't be demolished. I know this takes place in ECW under ECW rules, but I find it extremely odd that many are giving the impression that Kane can't be just as ruthless and, for some strange reason, can't pull out all the stops & use the same sort of weapons as well as Piper. If anything, 10 steel chair shots from Kane would be more devestating than 10 from Piper because Kane is so much bigger & stronger.

    I think I read someone say that Kane never really brought it or delivered or showed up, some sort of term in that area, against big names. That's ludicrous. If anything, that's something to be applied to Piper. Kane holds wins over many of the biggest names ever including Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Vader, Mick Foley, Randy Orton, Big Show and The Undertaker. And yes, some of those wins have come from no DQ environments & matches.

    I'm not saying that Piper won't make Kane work for it. He'll give him all he wants as Piper is tenacious as hell. When I look at Kane, however, I see a guy that's gone over competition in hardcore environments in which many of them are at a level Piper never came close to reaching. I love Piper, always have, but I've yet to read any logical reasoning as to why Piper should move on here.
     
    #35
  11. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    I guess I just don't really see how Piper would win this one. He's not going to put Kane in the Sleeper, and while Kane has proven to be beatable over the years, it's usually by brute force or speed rather than by being outsmarted or outfoxed. I think Piper has contributed more in the grand scheme of things, but Kane's longevity shouldn't be underestimated. He debuted as a monster heel, and he's still there in basically the same character 15 years later. Even Taker had to do something different for a while. Kane would win this.
     
    #36
  12. The Gribbler

    The Gribbler Gribble me this, Gribble me that...

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    I know Kane is meant to be intelligent but in the ring he is just another big man that makes the same big man mistakes as every other big man. As malevolant and diabolical as he is meant to be I really don't see that shine through in his matches.

    Although I tend to fast forward through his matches these days. Mask or No he has become just another big man. Although Kane in his prime may have been a different matter I still think he is too slow and the Hotrod is too good.
     
    #37
  13. The_Sharpshooter

    The_Sharpshooter Always a Contender

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    I'm with Jack Hammer & Tasty. I can't envision anything Piper had in his arsenal to keep Kane down, & no one's showing me anything different.

    The best attacks with weapons I've seen from Piper is him hitting Snuka with a coconut & spraying Goldbutt with water. I know Kane loves fire & all, but this isn't Pokemon, and thats nowhere near enough.

    Piper & Kane would basically tell the Little Engine That Could story, but at the end, that Choo Choo train won't be able to climp up that Redhill. Kane wins with a Tombstone on a Chair.
     
    #38
  14. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    I have actually, watching Kenta Kobashi vs Misawa from the list of best matches of the year helped me to become a puro fan.

    That's wasn't the fault of Glen Jacobs though, if anything the angle was a flop because the Fake Kane looked incredibly cheesy. If you're wanting to point fingers for how bad that angle was, blame creative.

    Of course not, but I'd bet that most fans will have associated the angle with HHH as he was the one in the video. That and their unification title match was actually really good.

    So Kane never had any substance, huh? 15 years of doing the same gimmick every week and still being over enough to still be an upper mid to top guy is pretty damn good for someone with no substance.

    That's redundant has Undertaker and Kane have always had good matches together and against each other. And I pointed out that Kane is more than capable of putting on good matches with other people.

    Bad television? Kane has had no more overly bad television moments as say HHH or the Undertaker. Because allot of the stuff with the Ministry and Corporation were just spectacular by the way :rolleyes:.

    Aside from Katie Vick and Fake Kane [with neither of those being attributed to Jacobs directly], he hasn't had any notably bad moments that really stand out. Kane has always been believeable in his role... that's why WWE has kept him around all these years doing the same thing over and over again.
     
    #39
  15. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    Kane wins a kayfabe match against Roddy Piper 10 times out of 10. This cannot be argued.

    However, Kane has always bored me to tears, and in my opinion, WWE never used the character correctly.

    Roddy Piper, on the other hand, is one of the greatest, most charismatic talkers ever. One of the greatest heels ever. Hulk Hogan's biggest rival during his time in the WWF. Was Roddy awesome inside the ring? Not exactly, but what he lacked in moves and storytelling, he more than made up for with entertaining antics during his matches.

    Piper gets my vote here. I just love the guy, and I feel he contributed a lot more to the business than Kane. I respect Kane for his longevity, hardwork, and unselfishness, but I hardly ever enjoyed watching him perform, and Piper has entertained me since I was a kid. Very easy choice.
     
    #40
  16. Born To Fly

    Born To Fly Occasional Pre-Show

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    There is no way Kane loses in an extreme rules match against Roddy Piper. Sure, Piper can be dirty as they come — and he is, but Kane is just a monster. Like someone said earlier, one chair shot from Kane KO'd Big Show, so just imagine what it could do to Piper. Anyway, this match would probably last about 15 minutes, Piper would get his shots in, but Kane ends it with a chokeslam and a Tombstone Piledriver.
     
    #41
  17. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    So basically you're voting for your favorite instead of the guy that you'd know would win the match. I guess that's okay, as you've admitted that Kane IS the better man.

    I'd personally would be on the fence if Kane were to go up against Sting; at the moment I'm leaning towards the latter, unless I can think of an decent argument in Kane's favor.
     
    #42
  18. Born To Fly

    Born To Fly Occasional Pre-Show

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    So Kane would win the match...

    Now that we got that out of the way, how does being a charismatic talker help Roddy Piper in this one match? Is Piper going to talk Kane out of bending a chair over his skull? Will Piper convince Kane to lay down for three seconds so he can get the pin? Will Piper incite the crowd to turn on Kane, who gets beat to death, thus allowing Piper to pick up an easy win?
     
    #43
  19. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    Ever since I started posting here, I've made it clear during the tournament that whoever would win the kayfabe match only plays a part in my voting process. I take in account other aspects, and there's nothing wrong with that since there is no clear cut rule that says we're supposed to vote solely based on who would win a fantasy match.

    And this is one of those cases where winning a kayfabe match doesn't matter to me. Kane is boring, Piper is entertaining.... that's why Piper gets my vote. You take away Kane's size and you're basically stuck with another Barry Horowitz. Roddy Piper, on the other hand, is one of the most charismatic wrestlers and best promo cutters in the history of the business. Not to mention he played a vital part in bringing professional wrestling mainstream. Piper deserves to go over Kane here just because of that alone, in my mind.
     
    #44
  20. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    Where's the fun in that though? If we were basing tournmanet wins based soley on accomplishments, drawing ability, and influence Hogan or Stone Cold would win the entire thing just about every time.

    At least with kayfabe there is a sense of realism as to whom would actually be booked to win these matches in a hypothetical setting.
     
    #45
  21. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    Like I said, I use it as part of the thought process, but in this case it just got overlooked everything else outweighs it.

    Well, if we're talking about who would get booked to win... then I could argue that Piper would since he's the bigger draw and would attract more attention to the next round of the tournament than Kane would.

    The only advantage Kane has over Piper is the fact that it's more believable that he'd win a kayfabe match, but as we've seen a thousand times in pro wrestling, the "believable" guy doesn't always win, and this should be the case with this match-up for the reasons I have stated.
     
    #46
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  22. Pay Per Ghost

    Pay Per Ghost squashed Disco Inferno to become

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    Allow me to fuck you up with your precious PWI:

    PWI Tag Team of the Year 1998

    2nd runner up: Mankind & Kane
    3rd runner up: Kane & Undertaker, Brothers of Destruction

    PWI Tag Team of the Year 1999

    Winner: X-Pac & Kane

    PWI Tag Team of the Year 2001

    1st runner up: Undertaker & Kane, Brothers of Destruction

    PWI Tag Team of the Year 2006

    3rd runner up: Big Show & Kane


    Wow, that means Kane must be a tag team specialist huh?


    Another round yeah?


    PWI Feud of the Year 2004

    3rd runner up: Matt Hardy vs Kane

    Here's my personal favorite

    Most Hated Wrestler of the Year
    The PWI Most Hated Wrestler of the Year Award recognizes the best heel or villainous professional wrestler of the year



    PWI Most Hated Wrestler of the Year 2003

    1st runner up:.....Kane

    Oh and he was 1st runner up for Comeback of the Year 2010





    For a perennial midcarder, he has done quite well for himself. And quite frankly just because I had to go through all that to prove my point I'm voting for Kane, why?


    Because Piper has never faced anyone of Kane's size as far as I can remember. The closest would be Hogan at 6'6. Kane is as hardcore as it gets.


    Exhibit A:


    [YOUTUBE]u6OUU4MYafc[/YOUTUBE]



    [YOUTUBE]s7EI3tO7siw[/YOUTUBE]



    And if you're really gonna be daft enough to bring his past gimmicks then I don't know what to say. For me this tourney is One man's prime against another man's prime. Also I have to put into context that...


    this being an extreme contest, and the fact that Piper hasn't really gone one on one with someone of Kane's size, VOTE KANE
     
    #47
  23. Davi323

    Davi323 semi-retired from WZ

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    I voted for Piper. I understand that Kane + unlimited weapons use is a dangerous combination...but people are acting like Piper is some sort of fucking saint, that he wouldn't get dirty. This is Rowdy Roddy Piper. He is a brawler, a fighter. He would have no problems picking up chairs and bashing Kane, he wouldn't hesitate to grab a barbed wire 2x4. He wouldn't pause at the thought of foreign objects at all. Piper was the heel's heel...and as it's an extreme rules match, Cowboy Bob Orton would be there to help him cheat. There is no doubt in my mind that in a hardcore ECW style match, that Orton would certainly interject himself into the match. Why not? He can't be DQ'ed for it. So, it's not really Piper vs. Kane, it's Piper/Orton vs. Kane. Two guys beating on him with all kinds of foreign weapons is going to be too much for Kane to overcome.
     
    #48
  24. The Brain

    The Brain King Of The Ring

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    I've got to be honest, the list of PWI accomplishments is rather unimpressive considering how long Kane has been around. He's won one award and that was for being part of a tag team that lasted a couple months. He's got a few runner up spots for other brief teams. The big feared psycho monster never even got most hated or feud of the year. I'm not neccisarily using PWI to vote against Kane but I think your attempt at showcasing him with these awards may backfire as it shows how mediocre Kane has been.

    You mentioned that Piper has never gone against anyone the size of Kane. That may be true but who's to say he couldn't. Just because Piper's never faced someone Kane's size doesn't mean he couldn't beat someone Kane's size. Piper is known for being a tough street fighter. He never cared about rules when they were enforced and here there are no rules. Piper was as dirty as they came even when he was a face. That was pretty rare for his day. I think Piper can more than hold his own here and find a way to beat Kane.
     
    #49
  25. Con T.

    Con T. Yaz ain't enough, I need Fluttershy

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    And, we have our official copy and paste from Wiki entry into the tourney. Maybe it's a wrestling database, I dunno. It's already been pointed out for how mediocre that looks for a fifteen year career, but let me point some more things out.

    1. Don't you find it a little strange that most of the awards you're offering are tag team accolades? And, if I may point out, PWI's awards are purely based on kayfabe success. That's all well and good, but it never takes into account the most important aspect of wrestling that has yet to to go undeterred; how much money is drawn. Kane had kayfabe tag team success, but how much of that resulted in money

    For that matter, has there been a time where Kane drew money? And in this match, are you really going to try and tell me that Kane drew more money than Piper? If you are, you'd be wrong. Piper was the heel during Hogan's era. If you're too stupid to realize the importance of that, imagine the Attitude Era, without having Vince McMahon to play off of Stone Cold.

    That was what Piper was to Rock N Wrestling era, except he was actually a competent worker. There's a reason that of all the men Hogan faced at Wrestlemania 1, Piper was the only one to get a spot in this tournament. He was the consistent draw that people paid to see Hogan get his hands on. And as Piper pointed out, Piper was the guy Hogan couldn't beat.


    2. Do you really want to sit here and tell me that Kane and Hardy was actually a good feud. Kindly, fuck off with that nonsense. I've got that as one of my six out of fifteen, which at the very least, implies not everyone was wetting their pants to watch this feud. If you want to tell me Kane had an accomplished career, fine, but don't try to piss on my leg, and tell me it's raining. It was a storyline that featured implied rape, a stillborn child, and had a shitty finish, that never got a payoff.

    3. You have that Kane won a runner up award for being the best villain, that happened in 2003.










    ...... Ooooooooh.


    Piper actually won that same award twice, Ghost. And, might I add, he won that in a year where WWE was making more money. 2003 was a horrendous year for WWE, both quality and business wise. Piper won his awards during a time WWE was becoming a burgeoning empire. I don't know about you, but I find what Piper did more impressive than Kane getting a runner up award, what, once?



    Look, if you want to say you think Kane will win, fine. But don't sit here and try to tell me Kane's more accomplished than Piper was. Again, don't fucking piss on my leg, and call it rain.

    For the record, i've also seen people argue that Piper can't beat Kane with a sleeper. I'm sorry, didn't Dolph fucking Ziggler beat Kane with a sleeper? I know for sure he's beaten Khali with it, and have a funny feeling I remember seeing him beat Kane with it.


    And if Dolph Ziggler, a nobody in the business compared to Roddy Piper, can beat Kane with a sleeper, why shouldn't I believe Piper can't?
     
    #50

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