ECW Region, Calgary Region, Second Round: (3) Harley Race vs. (14) Rob Van Dam

Discussion in 'ECW Region' started by Tastycles, Apr 24, 2012.

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Who Wins This Match?

  1. Harley Race

  2. Rob Van Dam

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    RVD gets alot of crap and most of it comes from the people who dismiss ECW as a gimmick promotion. Just because there were more spots involving 'flips' and crashing through tables doesnt dismiss the fact that it gave us some great wrestlers\matches. RVD was a badass. He has proven he can beat 'superstars' in other promotions as well as dominate in a hardcore environment. Just because a man does some flips and high flying moves alot of people dismiss him as a great wrestler. Thats trash. What the hell do you think HBK and Rey do? Yet they are so highly regarded and RVD gets lumped into the ECW trash can.


    Race is a tough bastard, no doubt, but this match is under ECW rules. Rules that RVD thrived under. Race can mix it up when need be but to what extent? We know he is from the old days where matches could last a long time, but at a way different pace. Could he do that against RVD in a ECW rules match? Tough as Race was, probably not. RVD fought some great matches against Jerry Lynn that not only were great technically, but were hardcore. They lasted longer than 90% of matches do nowadays, blended the best of hardcore and chain wrestling, and were entertaining as hell.


    After a good 20 minutes of back and forth wrestling, things get extreme. Race gets in some fantastic brutal offence; but RVD keeps on coming. He throws it all at Van Dam; Last ditch effort- Race goes for the piledriver but RVD reverses in to a back body drop. RVD pulls an exhasuted Race to the turnbuckle and Race eats a Van Terminator. Race gets to his feet, swings wildly and gets a sweep for his trouble. RVD drags his lifeless body to the center of the ring, and goes to the top rope.


    5-Star Frog Splash for the win about 30 minutes in.

    RVD moves on.
     
    #76
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  2. Larry

    Larry Getting Noticed By Management

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    I never implied anything, nor have I buried the best of the 70's. I've simply argued against the ridiculous hype-job in favor of Harley Race who is completely over rated by drooling fanboys here. If you didn't notice I was actually praising Terry Funk quite highly, and I've supported other guys that aren't exactly "New School" either. Get your story straight.

    Sure, he won the NWA title at a time when wrestling wasn't nearly as big as it became after Vince McMahon made it a mainstream product, with only a couple other big players to hand the belt around to, and he wasn't "on top of the NWA" for years either. He had 4 years where he was a real dominant guy holding the title, and he was beaten by Dusty Rhodes, Giant Baba, and Tommy Rich even then. He was a big player but even in his own time there were plenty of guys who eclipsed him. Without looking it up, can you even tell me about those multiple title wins? No, you can't. They weren't really that significant, because the NWA wasn't as significant as the folks involved would have you believe. The CWC/WWWF/WWF was still the biggest promotion/territory back then and didn't need the NWA to be the premiere organization nationally and abroad. They had a real bruiser in Bruno Sammartino.

    As far as what wins RVD has that are as impressive, you ask what wins does he have, allow me answer? For starters, during the majority of his tenure in the WWE he was in the main event title picture.Triple H was never able to beat him clean and he does hold a victory over Ric Flair.

    In ECW He's had multiple impressive matches with:
    Sabu
    Tommy Dreamer
    Sandman
    Taz
    Bam Bam Bigelow
    Shane Douglas
    Jerry Lynn
    Chris Candido, and other various ECW stars there.

    In the WWE he's beat
    Chris Jericho
    Jeff Hardy
    Booker T
    Eddie Guerrero
    Brock Lesnar
    Chris Benoit
    Big Show
    William Regal
    Kane
    Christian
    Matt Hardy
    Edge
    John Cena in and Extreme Rules Match,
    Randy Orton,
    and all of those wins are either for titles or defending titles.

    On to TNA, he's beat
    Sting in his debut
    The Band (Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, and Sean Waltman)
    AJ Styles for the TNA championship
    Abyss
    Jeff Hardy
    Mr. Anderson
    Tommy Dreamer
    Sabu
    Rhino
    Matt Hardy
    Christopher Daniels
    and at the moment he is the #1 contender for the TNA title after beating Mr. Anderson and Jeff Hardy in a triple threat match, and I'm probably missing some other notable matches as well.

    So, unless you are ignorantly going to downplay his resume of beating champion after champion, HOF'ers, Future HOF'ers, and so on, how does Harley Race even compare? Look at that list of names, it far outweighs the few notable names on Race's resume. Keep in mind, none of this even covers his extensive tag team career where he's won titles left and right as well. Lets not for get that he's a Triple Crown winner in both ECW and WWE, as well as being a Grand Slam Champion in the WWE, PWI ranked him #1 of the top 500 singles wrestlers in the PWI 500 in 2002, Comeback of the Year in 2001 and 2010, Most Popular Wrestler of the Year in 2001 and 2002, he was recognized by Pro Wrestling Report for Match of the Year in 2006 for his match vs. John Cena at ECW One Night Stand II as well.


    It's not a ridiculous argument, it fits within the context of the conversation with the way you folks try to hold up Harley Race, like his matches were real victories or something or more significant BECAUSE it was him winning them in a different time when wrestling was sold to people as being more real.

    Yes, Coco and JMT both covered it rather well, I didn't need to reiterate what they already said as they said it rather well.

    And that means what? I've already noted that the NWA wasn't even the end all be all of it's time so why do you keep acting like he was a God amongst men? So what he was a big player in the NWA, compared to the WWE where RVD has been a dual champion the NWA is insignificat. BTW, the WWE and TNA both tour world wide as well. If you look at the list of names I provided above you'll see that you are clearly wrong about him not facing the best in ECW or the WWE as well, as he clearly DID face the best in both promotions, and continues to face the best in TNA. He was also THEE best in WWE at one time as signified by his crowning as both ECW and WWE champion so you're wrong there too.

    I am judging him in his prime but you keep missing the point. This is 2012, the time at which the WZ Tournament is taking place, and in 2012 after a whole other history of wrestling has taken place, the things he did in the 60's 70's or 80's isn't nearly as significant as it was at the time, and it wasn't even the most significant of the goings on AT that time. You are also guilty of the very thing you accuse me of, you keep trying to stick only to what RVD did in ECW and downplay that, completely ignoring the rest of his career.

    It's not irrelevant, it point to the fact that he fails in even the most simple, basic, and superficial of criteria, that being "The Look". And, my point about being able to find any random guy in a bar that could kick his ass is far from laughable, it's a reality, and it does have everything to do with this match as it serves as an example that he wasn't the "Man's man, bad ass, tough guy" in reality that he was made to be by his own crowing. He may have been able to bullshit and buffalo a lot of people into believing he WAS, but as I said, bullshit, I can find a tough guy anywhere that could beat his ass. That is also significant because above all else he wasn't some diamond in the rough, he was a dime a dozen "tough guy", a completely uninteresting unoriginal character that couldn't stand the test of time, as history has shown.

    That's a nice story and all, but "looks" do matter, not just physique but "The Look", and that was my point, he looks like my grandfather out there in his underwear which isn't bad ass at all, isn't intimidating, and in actuality looks fucking ridiculous. Put him next to Bruno Sammartino and tell me who looks like the real fucking mauler here okay.

    I know about Harley's day, that's because I'm not a fucking noob, I've been following wrestling my entire life of almost 30 years. I've studied the history of the business quite extensively. Obviously you haven't. I was trained to be a wrestler by a guy who learned from Harley Race himself down in Missouri and Dory Funk Jr (see Gage Octane). I've actually been in a ring, been in a match, and done the damn thing. I've set up chairs, rings, equipment, run security, helped with booking and creative decisions, promos, and just about everything else you could do. Don't come to someone with actual experience in the business, with extensive knowledge of the business and try to call them a noob in any sense. I'm far from a noob here on wrestlezone as well, you just don't know any better.

    That's the point, he never stayed in one spot too long, and the NWA did that so that guys like him didn't get stale. Put this in contrast to RVD who has stayed in the same place numerous times without getting stale and we see who the superior is, RVD. Race wasn't the best for one, and he was only in demand because he held the title, as was anyone else who held the title. Your little Rex Grossman/Joe Montana comment also just shows how far off the radar you are as it pertains to what I am saying and where I stand.

    Again you're playing fantasy when I'm firmly grounded in reality. It doesn't matter that RVD isn't a giant, he's beat bigger, tougher, stronger opponents. As far as what Race couldn't combat in RVD's arsenal, I submit the whole F'n thing. He's too fast, deceptively strong, his aerial maneuvers would be too much for Race to combat as he's never faced anything like it, and being in an extreme rules match he's completely out of his element.

    At what point did I make any kind of inference that Harley Race was a wrestler in 2012. I already explained, this tournament takes place here and now in 2012, a time with different standard, higher standards, and someone like him doesn't stand the test of time here. You say if RVD walked into a ring in 1976 he's be looked at as some gymnastic pretty boy that the "Real Men" would wipe the man with. I say you're fucking delusional. He'd have probably been an even bigger star then because his style is light-years ahead of theirs, he does have a better look, and his style is far more aesthetically pleasing as well which would have flipped peoples shit back then, just like it has since he came around. Race's look may have been suitable then because they had lower standards, but it isn't now, and that plays into his believability against a guy like RVD, which is shot upon first glance.

    Yes, I know, you've made it very clear that you simply have an anti-ECW agenda and you look down on them for doing things that a lot of other guys simply didn't have the balls to do. That's fine, but it takes away no relevance of what they accomplished, the fact that a number of guys became so significant there that both the WWF and WCW felt they were must have guys, and that RVD was one of them, but chose to stay until ECW was purchased outright by WWE. It also takes away none of the significance of his fandom in ECW, the caliber of his matches, or his overall legacy in professional wrestling.


    Yeah I saw that, but anyone can simply USE weapons, it's another thing entirely to be a specialist in using weapons like RVD and that is the big difference here, along with the fact that they were used all the time, consistently in ECW, where Harley Race as you yourself said only used them "If the situation called for it". I also did see the video with Abby, but Coco and JMT both wrecked that argument so I need not address it now.

    Just an off the cuff comment.

    Yep that's it, I didn't like 70's fashion so that's the basis of my whole argument. Do you huff paint or glue or something? Are you fucking serious? Yeah, those are great wins in his resume, and the wins that make him even considerable for this tournament, but looking at the two resumes, the time periods, the stipulations, comparing the two as athletes and entertainers, RVD is head over heels better overall than Harley Race, and goes over easily in this match setting.

    That's not true at all, you are just ignoring a lot of my argument because you don't like what I have to say, and I say "tough shit". I'm not getting at him SIMPLY for his age, but you're apparently too dense to see past that, and aren't comprehending my sentiments regarding him being judged by modern standards.

    First of all, I am a trained wrestler and I wasn't bullshitting when I said I could go the pace of his matches move for move, hold for hold, spot for spot, and that's because in wrestling shape I am a better conditioned athlete, tuned to wrestle at a faster more intense pace. I never said that if I were born in a different time I would be a multi-time NWA champion and all that, but I was making the point that he simply couldn't last at the pace that RVD can set for him because he isn't as fit by a long shot. You simply had no meaningful response to all that because you know it's true, so you tried to revert something back onto me as if it changed the fact that I am right. And BTW, I'd kick Harley Race's ass in 2012, he's almost 70 years old for Christ sake. Not that I'd try to, I'm not a piece of shit like that, but he wouldn't have a chance.

    I provided the list above, and the Vandaminator has worked against countless opponents, Race would likely be no different. I'm not going to make up a bunch of fantastic scenarios where everything RVD does is masterful and flawless like you do though as it pertains to Harley Race. Your blind support and made up scenarios are pathetic and make you look like an idiot. That's the kind of shit little kids do.

    You said it was "a tournament to determine the greatest of all time", and I said "yeah, as determined in 2012" pointing to the fact that it takes place here and now, in a time where standards are different and higher, a lot more has happened since his time, and the game of the average wrestler has stepped quite far up from back then. It's a the greatest of all time, as determined in 2012.

    For someone who calls themselves "The Brain" you sure seem to be lacking in that department. I never said that anyone shouldn't post anywhere, you keep pulling ridiculous shit out of thin air. This entire last paragraph you wrote was all fabricated shit you used to slander me. That's fine, I can play hardball too, but you've completely made all that shit up, all of it is completely unfounded, and makes no sense in regards to anything I DID say.


    Folks, don't be swayed by the puffery of fanboys looking to reanimate fossils into creatures they never actually were. Harley Race in his time was a big player, he is considered to a legend of the business in some circles, but reality always overcomes legend. The reality here is that the old timer is out of his element, going against something and someone he could have never even fathomed facing. He is an inferior athlete in every way, comparing the resumes, he doesn't have as many accolades and accomplishments to his career that RVD does, nor has he beat as much top shelf competition as RVD. The answer here is simple and obvious. Don't be a fool, vote for RVD
     
    #77
    Nate DaMac and nightmare like this.
  3. The Brain

    The Brain King Of The Ring

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    The majority of your argument is how 2012 is automatically better than previous eras. I know you praised Terry Funk. Probably because you remember seeing him in ECW and they told you he was a legend. I wonder if you'd be singing his praises if he retired for good around 1990. By the way, Harley Race beat Terry Funk by submission.

    I'm all about the WWF but wrestling did exist before Vince McMahon. You're not one of those people who think he invented pro wrestling are you? If so many guys eclipsed him why is Race so highly regarded? Was does he have this legendary status to begin with? You say the talent pool was thin and you say many eclipsed him. Why is Race the one who is remembered?

    That looks like a lot more quantity than quality to me. You can come up with a long list of names because we've seen RVD every week for years. We have video access to his entire career so it's easy to find a random Smackdown where he beat Matt Hardy or Christian. That doesn't equal being the NWA world champion.

    Yeah let's not forget that WWE title reign. That one reign lasted about three weeks I believe. His title reign was a failure. If he hadn't blown that opportunity and actually capitalized on it RVD might have had a chance at becoming the star you think he is. Funny how his only ECW world title came under the WWE banner yet he is supposedly the king of ECW.

    And Harley Race was wrestler of the year in 1979 and 1983. He was in match of the year in 1973, 1979, and 1983. Number one in 2002 was pretty nice for RVD but it doesn't compare to Number eight all time during the PWI years like Harley Race got.

    Nobody said anything like that. Race's victories were more impressive because they came against bigger names in more high profile matches.

    You've already noted that the NWA wasn't the end all be all. I guess we shouldn't talk about it anymore. Except you're wrong. The NWA was the top organization. The WWWF was considered regional by comparison. NWA was the clear number one. RVD was THEE best in WWE at one time. For three weeks. Then he blew it.

    If I was missing your point it was because you were not doing a good job explaining it. I credit you for making it more clear here but it is still flawed. This is what I was talking about when I mentioned you don't think wrestlers from past eras should be in the tournament. Your comments imply that any accomplishments of the 21st century are far superior than to prior eras. We could make this a tournament for perfromers of the 21st century but that wouldn't be as much fun.

    As for me downplaying RVD's career outside ECW, I am not downplaying it. His WWE run wasn't anything spectacular. He was hot for about a year even though he wasn't a consistent main event guy. After that he floundered for a few years bouncing around in meaningless tag teams before finally being given the ball and promptly fumbling it.

    Why do you think a random guy in a bar could kick Race's ass? What do you base that on? You say he couldn't stand the test of time yet 40 years later most people involved in wrestling and who follow wrestling still regard him as a legend.

    Look I don't know if you actually wrestled at the local high school gym in front of 50 friends and family members of the wrestlers or not but I don't find it relevant here. What does you trainer tell you about Race? I'm assuming this is your main source for your dislike toward Race.

    No, he didn't stay in one place too long because all the promoters from all over the world wanted him. You say RVD didn't get stale. I thought he grew stale in WWE around 2003.

    We can play this game all day. You can say RVD will use the split leg moonsault or rolling thunder. I can say Race will use his belly to belly and piledriver. Bottom line is Race has the better resume and was the more successful wrestler.

    This reminds me of Back to the Future 3 where Marty has his Nikes on and proudly declares his name is Clint Eastwood and Biff laughs in his face. Marty looks better on movie posters but Biff looks like he could kick his ass. Until RVD can incorporate a hover board into his arsenal I'm sticking with Race.

    I don't have an anti ECW agenda. I'm just honest about them and don't glorify them. ECW was a far distant third to WWF and WCW. They achieved a cult following because of the ridiculous stunts they pulled. RVD was the definition of big fish in a small pond and he wasn't even the biggest fish. While other guys left for bigger and better things RVD stayed behind. Was he afraid to leave his safety net?


    I keep hearing about RVD being a "specialist" with weapons. How exactly is he a specialist? Because he does a fancy looking kick with a chair? A hard swing is just as effective.

    If you go read some of your prior posts you've got to admit your main argument was against Race's look and current age. I still don't know how you consider RVD's resume more impressive than Race's.

    You make the common mistake of just assuming faster is better. What is Race took control early and just wore RVD down? What if he never got a chance to pick up the pace? Faster doesn't automatically equal better.

    I never said Race was flawless. Explain how I could not post that exact paragraph and pertain it to you and your blind support of RVD.

    I'm not playing hardball or slandering you. I'm commenting on what you said. I never made anything up. If you don't like having your argument picked apart come up with a better one.

    Now who's making things up?
     
    #78
  4. Rainbow Yaz

    Rainbow Yaz Sing about me, I'm dying of thirst
    E-Fed Mod

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    I love RVD, he is one of my favorites of all time and it pains me to say I had to vote for Race.

    Yes, its ECW, so its practically RVD's back yard but it wasn't until WWECW that RVD actually won the ECW heavyweight title. He had a crazy long run as the TV champion but never touched the actual ECW HW strap.

    Race was a tough son of a bitch. He survived a car accident that the doctors were going to amputate his leg over. I'd put that above any table RVD ever went through or any ladder he ever jumped off.
     
    #79
  5. Mr. Artistic guy

    Mr. Artistic guy Better Off This Way

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    [YOUTUBE]6fdq8aWVDbw[/YOUTUBE]

    This is for anybody doubting RVD's ability to do heel. In fact, his natural ability, much like with Kurt Angle in the early 2000s, would be a contributing factor as for why people could dislike him. Think about this: RVD is slating a rival company and is actually getting booed for it?

    For a man not renound for this talking ability he does pretty damn well in this short interview and then proceeds to demonstrate the same phenomenal athletic ability he maintain a good 15 years later, even managing to wow J.R. on commentary. Howzat for a guy that came for a place famous for just people hitting each other with things and making each other bleed?

    I'm not going to rabbit on about Harley Race, the man is a strong and well-recognised figure in the professional wrestling history books. I will say, RVD was and is a special guy. It's why he's the number one contender for the number two company in the biggest wrestling stomping ground, over 20 years after he started his campaign as a professional wrestler. That's no small feat.
     
    #80
  6. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    I just hate when people automatically assume Race will lose to RVD because he's never seen a guy like Rob Van Dam. If you want to go there, then that's fine. Let's look at guys through RVD's career who were just as strong and similar to Harley Race- HHH, Undertaker, and Kene. RVD has gotten beat constantly by each and every one of them. I don't care that Evolution and Bischoff had a hand in it. At the end of the day, he lost. RVD was a guy who was hot for his first few years in the company and fizzled out after. Next thing you know, we'll be putting Evan Bourne over Race because Harley's never seen a guy like him.
     
    #81
  7. Davi323

    Davi323 semi-retired from WZ

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    I am voting for Harley Race. For me, this comes down to one simple premise: Harley Race is a tough mother fucker, RVD is not. Harley was busting people open decades before ECW opened it's doors, and Race got downright brutal in some of his matches. Yeah, it's ECW and RVD's home turf, but that home turf advantage doesn't cancel out the fact that Harley Race is flat out better than he is.
     
    #82
  8. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    ECW rules play a huge part here folks. How can you dismiss RVD and his ability to take punishment and give it right back? Sure Race is a tough guy. He beat up dudes before RVD laced his boots. That doesnt change the fact that RVD can beat the crap out of guys like that. He is under ECW rules and will throw everything at Race, including the kitchen sink a fan brought to the show. Got to love random ECW weapons from the crowd. He might smack him so hard with a chair, Race would think he had Polio again.


    Race would get pissed at Alfonso screeching that damn whistle every 30 seconds. A huge distraction. Race would hit him just to shut him up. He would put his hands on Alfonso and turn around right into a well timed Van Daminator. That would definately happen and be a turning point in this match. A short tempered tough guy like Race would go after an annoying Bill Alfonso, causing a distraction for RVD to capitalize on.


    Race would beat the hell out of RVD, but he can take it. One of his most memorable matches was against Flair at Starrcade 83 (i think). That was one of the best matches from that time. Problem is, Race lost. He lost to an up and coming Flair who bested the tough guy Race in a bloody battle inside the cage. RVD would have no problem dishing out more punishment than Flair did to Race at Starrcade. Van Dam would hit race with more objects than Race has ever been hit with before. ECW rules folks. If this was a 1 on 1 traditional bout, Race would probably win. Unfortunately for him, this is under the ECW banner.


    Race fights a tough bout, filled with great chain moves and some bloody hardcore action. He just doesnt get the job done over RVD. This is in his element. RVD has more in his aresenal than just a few 'flips'. Anyone that discounts Van Dam so quickly has never paid attention to his matches. They show great speed, agility and destruction. He can chain wrestle with the best of them, take to the sky like few before him and take it all to the extreme like few ever will.


    Say it with me.... Rob Van Dam
     
    #83
  9. thatotherguy

    thatotherguy Occasional Pre-Show

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    So, in order to show my total disgust for everything (or nearly everything) that has happened on this forum, let me post the arguments I have seen in favor of each man:

    Harly Race
    He's old-school, therefore he's better
    The people voting for RVD are stupid
    ECW sucks
    The people voting for RVD are stupid
    He won matches against legends (a legitimate argument)
    The people voting for RVD are stupid
    Rob Van Dam is nothing more than a spot monkey.
    The people voting for RVD are stupid.
    He won a match against Abdullah the Butcher
    The people voting for RVD are stupid.
    Race is too big for RVD.
    The people voting for RVD are stupid

    RVD
    He's from ECW, therefore he's better.
    The people voting for Race are stupid
    This is ECW, and he's from ECW (nearly a legitimate argument, but in one of the few worthwhile parts of this debate, this was more or less torn down)
    The people voting for Race are stupid.
    RVD has beaten some of the top stars of the modern era (a legitimate argument)
    The people voting for Race are stupid.
    RVD does flips!
    The people voting for Race are stupid.
    Race is old (so? We're not talking about Harly Race wrestling as he is today…)
    The people voting for Race are stupid.
    I don't know anything about Race, therefore I'm voting for RVD (the precise reason that I'm not voting until someone can convince me one way or the other).
    The people voting for Race are stupid.
    RVD can beat big guys.
    The people voting for Race are stupid.

    :banghead:

    This is one of those matchups where, having limited knowledge about one of the competitors, I do some research and look through the comments to see if someone can convince me. This eventually lead to me choosing Ed Lewis over Sting even though coming into the tournament I knew absolutely nothing about Ed Lewis. But the arguments here have been just plain useless to me.
     
    #84
  10. The 1-2-3 Killam

    The 1-2-3 Killam Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Coco and Brain arguing the Triple H/RVD battle intrigues me. Unfortunately, there's almost no way that match is going to happen in this tournament. The Game might make it out of his region alive (doubtful), but I'd be surprised to see RVD doing the same. Beating Jericho is going to be hard enough - beating the Rock is a whole other ballgame...

    Here's my quick take on the Race/Hunter comparison: There's no denying the similarities between Harley Race and Triple H, but the biggest difference between the two's chances lies solely in the ECW stipulation. Triple H, while likely not as legendary as his mentor, has competed in Hell in a Cell matches. Steel cages. Elimination Chambers. Triple H gone through hell and back, and prevailed on many an occasion. Harley Race...not so much.

    If this were Triple H against RVD in an ECW match, I'd go with the Game. But it's not. Harley Race might be an all-time great, but you can't just learn an extreme style on-the-go against somebody that helped put it on the map. Somebody that helped shape a company (albeit a small one) in that image.
     
    #85
  11. ace frehley

    ace frehley Dark Match Jobber

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    There is a reason that Race has been in wrestling for so long. He's good. He has proven that.

    His opponant has some flashy moves and sure, he can throw chairs or the kitchen sink, but if that is all he has to show- a flip or throwing something a fan brought in, what is he going to do with someone who actually knows what he is doing?
     
    #86
  12. Loveless

    Loveless A Life In Monochrome

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    It's probably too late given the way the voting is going but I'm going to say it anyway

    RVD is a sack of crap and is about equal to Jeff Hardy in terms of personality and actual in-ring talent. By that, I mean he hasn't got any. Putting him over a legitimate legend like Race is ludicrous fanboyism. I don't care where this match is, Race is better in every way that matters and doesn't tolerate flippy crap from a stoned midget.
     
    #87
  13. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    I'm disappointed here people. Rob Van Dam is good, but THIS IS HARLEY RACE. Van Dam was so great in ECW that he never even won the world title. He was so great in WWE that it took him five years to win the WWE Title which he promptly dropped 22 days later. Race is generally considered one of the most legit tough guys in the history of wrestling. he was around forever and held the world title a then record seven times. Van Dam would try everything he had, but Race is too tough, too evil, and too great to lose to Van Dam anywhere, even in ECW. This shouldn't be close and I'm ashamed that it is.
     
    #88
    Vincent Michaels likes this.
  14. ShinobiMusashi

    ShinobiMusashi Getting Noticed By Management

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    ECW World Title notable champions:

    Raven, The Sandman(X4), Justin Credible, Steve Corino,

    ECW TV Title notable champions:

    Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko, Chris Jericho.

    Hardcore garbage wrestling was what put ECW on the map, and it was it's main draw, so the WORLD title would generally get strapped around whoever represented that the best(Kind of like the WWF World Title compared to the IC title through the 80's/90's where guys like Hogan/Andre were going at it for the World title, and Steamboat/Savage would go at it for the IC title).

    The TV title was for the best actual wrestlers, I.E. Shane Douglas in 1996. Douglas had matches through 96 for the TV title with guys like Jericho, and 2 Cold Scorpio, where as the World Title was firmly entrenched in the Raven/Sandman fued.

    ECW TV Title > ECW World Title, and RVD held that title longer than anyone. That is something I've always wanted to point out to you KB.

    I think RVD would beat Race with his better stamina, and speed. Harley Race would collapse due to exhaustion with his fat belly. RVD with the win via Van Terminator!
     
    #89
    jmt225 likes this.
  15. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    You really have no idea what you're talking about do you?

    Today, a 20 minute match is pretty long. Back in the day, if you didn't go 25 minutes in a main event, it was short. Race would do that 4-5 times a week. The idea of stamina being a factor is laughable at best. Van Dam can indeed fly better, and that's about the extent of his advantages. While Van Dam held the TV Title for what, 700 days, Race held the NWA World Title, the biggest title in the world, for over 900 in one reign. That would be the biggest title in the world, not the second biggest in the distant third biggest organization in the world (arguably). Why this is even close is baffling.
     
    #90
  16. ShinobiMusashi

    ShinobiMusashi Getting Noticed By Management

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    Who said anything about 20 minutes? RVD would usually push his fucking body to the absolute limit for 30-40 minutes at a much faster, more physical pace than any match Race ever had. Race is too slow, too fat. RVD with the win.

    Oh, and your little tournament here is fucking ******ed. There, I said it.

    KB: I'm not just any ECW fanboy, I'm THE ECW fanboy, and I didn't participate in this tournament(well I voted for RVD just to piss you off). I just wanted to set you strait on the ECW World/TV titles, since you don't know shit about ECW. You should keep your mouth shut about things that you know nothing about. You act like you know everything about ECW, and you don't know shit!

    Farewell.
     
    #91
  17. BestInTheWorld5

    BestInTheWorld5 Dark Match Jobber

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    RVD. The man in my opnion is so underrated. Watch his ECW days. Man can flat out go. He will definitely have the ECW advantage which will prove to much to overcome.
     
    #92
  18. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    All this poll has proved is that Rob Van Dam is the most overrated wrestler within the IWC. I mean, you're going to try to convince me that Harley Race, a Seven Time World Heavyweight Champion in an era of tougher wrestlers, better high fliers, and much more demanding schedule, wouldn't wipe the floor with Rob Van Dam?

    This shows me that on occasion, this entire tourney is a waste of time. And if any of the arguments placed here were reasonable, I'd give folks the benefit of the doubt. But saying that "HE'S A HIGH FLIER" and "HE'S BEATEN ORTON, CENA, HHH, AND OTHERZ" is plain stupid. Harley Race would be those guys and their dads if they stepped in the ring with him.

    Oh well. Eventually, you goofy smarks will realize that just because someone wrestled in the earlier days doesn't make them inferior to someone you've seen on TV. By that logic, Alex Riley would beat Lou Thesz because Thesz hasn't seen the likes of a blue chipper like Riley.

    Most of you are stupid and that's tough to deal with.
     
    #93
    Davi323 likes this.
  19. thatotherguy

    thatotherguy Occasional Pre-Show

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    And in this post, in a nutshell, is the exact reason that I never ended up voting in this poll.

    I know next to nothing about Harley Race, except his accomplishments. I know quite a bit more about RVD. These are the cases in which I usually read through the comments and check to see who convinces me more. But all I got were arguments like this.

    (Almost) all of the arguments for Harley Race came from people who were blindly pro old school.

    (Almost) all of the arguments for Rob Van Dam came from people who knew next to nothing about the old school.

    Both sides insulted each other. Both sides insulted the wrestlers – two amazing talents (the very little I know about Harley Race is enough to say that he was an amazing talent) – they were arguing against. Neither side actually made an argument that was even halfway valid.

    Screw you all.
     
    #94

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