Does WWE Have Too Much Talent?

[Jack-Hammer]

The title of the thread might be a bit confusing. After all, you wonder how a wrestling company can possibly have "too much" good talent on its roster. As I was working out this morning, for no reason, an article I read on wrestlinginc.com last week popped into my head.

The article was about Antonio Cesaro and it was talking about where there was any sort of heat on Cesaro backstage. After all, the past few months, Cesaro has been jobbed out & buried as United States Champion. The article went onto state that, according to sources, there was no heat on Cesaro at all. There's just a lot of flip flopping among WWE officials on who to push. WWE officials will be behind a wrestler for a while and then someone else starts to impress them, so they get pushed. Then, they might go back to someone else & reignite that person's push.

If you look at how the mid-card picture has been in WWE the past several months, flip flopping on who to push does indeed look like it's been happening. We've seen it happen with The Miz, Antonio Cesaro, Kofi Kingston & Wade Barrett especially. WWE was pretty hot for Kofi during the early stages of his 4th IC title run but cooled off on him for Wade Barrett. Then, WWE cooled off on Wade Barrett for Miz. Miz is MIA, filming a movie I think, while Kofi is now US champ again and Cesaro now looks like he's getting a character change that might reignite a push for him.

In spite of all the constant griping you hear from the IWC as a whole, WWE has a highly talented roster. There are several standouts in NXT, such as Bray Wyatt, Kassius Ohno & Adrian Neville for instance, who are said to be extremely close to being brought up to the main roster. With a lot of talent on the main roster and a lot of the developmental roster on the way up, it just seems that WWE is a company that seems to have too much promising talent.

There are only so many spots and only so many guys that can be pushed. As a result, some wrestlers are going to be left out in the cold. I suppose if you did have "too much" talent, it'd be an interesting problem to have, but it's a problem all the same. The schizophrenic booking of the mid-card title scenes, for instance, is a prime manifestation of that problem and one that would only get worse as more talent is brought up. A simple explanation, and one I'm sure many accept or are willing to accept, is that WWE officials simply "don't know what they're doing". Personally, I think that's far too simplistic an answer

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

It might create a muddy mid card right now, but the excess talent will come in handy down the line when guys like Taker, HHH, Kane, Mark Henry, Big Show, Rey, Christian and Jericho are gone. We are probably 1-3 years away from seeing everyone on that list being done with wrestling in the WWE. Once that happens then we will get more defined roles for the guys you mentioned.

 

[boywithbluehanger]

I've been saying this for so long that a part of me feels like this thread was created just for my own satisfaction. So first and foremost, thank you.

The WWE in the past 5 years, has steadily increased their number of wrestling talent. And quite honestly this wouldn't be such an issue if it weren't for the IWC. You see, most fans don't generally clock in hours and hours every year whining about who does or does not get pushed. We do. That's just simply the culture of internet TV show fans. We have characters we want to see more of and more time dedicated to. This is why in my unabashedly biased opinion, The WWE has far too many wrestlers in their employ. Anytime someone rising through the ranks of warehouse wrestling to various indy circuits to quasi-mainstream professional wrestling, to WWETV, they have a cult following (that the cynic in me questions were really fans to begin with or not). These fans usually have in their minds that the only reason so-and-so was brought to the WWE was for the sole purpose of being a multi-time main-event-caliber champion. And even as I'm typing this, I just know in my heart that someone who will read this will reluctantly identify with actually taking part in such a behavior and nod to himself. It's ok we're all flawed in one way or another. Hell I'm addicted to gummi bears and probably have "diabeetus" as a result. So I'm not speaking from some high horse.

Unrealistic expectations probably help a lot of these guys feel the need to put forth further effort after they've already made it to the big leagues. But being at the top of a sector in the WWE is similar to Highlander. There can be only one. The list of men who deserve pushes based on sales, crowd reaction, and business guidelines are low. So it does beg to ask the question, why does the WWE continue to take chances on obvious disaster cases? Let's take a quick look at 3 men who are usually heels. At this point, no one thinks that Wade Barret is going to get over with American audiences without being the leader of Nexus. No one thinks that Jack Swagger can pull off any type of character. No one thinks that ADR is able to get a crowd to care about him with his very thick accent and lack of impression-making insults. Are they good in the ring? Here's a tough pill to swallow for you: NO ONE CARES! And therein lies the (1st part of the)problem.

Let's look at guys who are pretty much always babyfaces. Kofi could win 10 more US championship titles and guess what, he'll still get a 70%+ reaction from the crowd. Sure it's not great but it's a hell of a lot better than those other men I mentioned. R-Truth may be cheesy and without anything to do but he gets a positive reaction from 70% of the crowd too. Same goes for Santino and to a lesser extent Brodus Clay. Those are 4 examples of babyfaces that stay based on being decent for the product in terms of crowd reaction, sales, and (child/pre-teen) anticipation. Do we need 4 of those guys? No. Are they taking up space for someone who could pull off their cheesiness and be a better wrestler? In some cases - And therein lies the (2nd part of the)problem.

WWE has guys (disaster cases [Part 1 Above]) who can easily be replaced with better talent in the ring as many of the IWC would probably want. However, they also have guys who are considered pretty successful in regards to WWE's use for them (babyfaces [PART 2 Above]). What are these 2 problems that I vaguely stated at the end of both of those parts?
One? The WWE. And two? (Brace yourselves) All of us.

The WWE is on a quantity/quality trip where they believe that in a pool of various different types of talent, there's sure to be a handful of future stars. Whereas the ever vocal internet fan continues the perspective of "Push the new guy who proved himself at countless backwater promotions!!". In one corner you have the company who ends up having many different employees unused, thus wasting money. In the other corner, you have the type of fan who demands that quality wrestlers (regardless how many already exist within the company) need to be pushed at all costs. Why have an influx of talent steadily coming in and no intention to cut any of the fat? What is missing from both sides is the voice of reason yelling, "GET RID OF 3MB, SWAGGER, RYDER, BARRET, PRIMO/EPICO, TAMINA!!!!" Instead you have a bunch of muffled voices. The WWE promotional guy saying, "Check out Saturday Morning Slam at 10AM featuring Sweet T VS JTG VS Yoshi Tatsu!!!!" And the internet fan saying, "When is Generico gonna debut, damnit??"

 

[Sid Schmid]

I hope that once the 'WWE Network' finally get's up and running there will be more room for all of the talent. One of the network shows could focus on cruiserweights, another on tag teams and still use the flagship shows for the already established stars. That way you can keep developing talent in NXT, moving them to the main roster to fill spots on the extra programming on the Network.

I think a cruiserweight show would be very entertaining, the likes of Sin Cara, Neville, Tyson Kidd, Christian, Rey, Evan Bourne etc could put on some great high flying matches.

 

[Memory Horizon]

It might create a muddy mid card right now, but the excess talent will come in handy down the line when guys like Taker, HHH, Kane, Mark Henry, Big Show, Rey, Christian and Jericho are gone. We are probably 1-3 years away from seeing everyone on that list being done with wrestling in the WWE. Once that happens then we will get more defined roles for the guys you mentioned.

Agreed.

From what I'm seeing, the WWE has too much talent RIGHT NOW. But this is an odd time period. It's a changing of the guard. Cena, Punk, Orton, Sheamus, and others are all getting older. Cena in particular is on the wrong side of the wall between 30 and 40. HHH has got to be almost done, and the same can be said for Undertaker. And that (with the exception of HHH and Taker) is JUST the main roster, not the part timers.

I think, despite what most people like to say, the WWE knows what they're doing. They know their stars are getting up in years, and it's time for stars of tomorrow. So while most say that there's too much talent, it's only for now. Give the newcomers some tests, let them play around with a push a little bit, then bring someone else in for a little while. This way, the stars of tomorrow will be ready when the stars of today fade away. Things are in the middle of change, but it will all even out within the next 5 years or so.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Too much talent? Where? What show am I watching?

The way I see it, you don't know talent until you witness it for yourself. There is potential, there is theoretical talent and success on paper, and then there is talent.

Guys like Cesaro, Barrett and Kofi have outright flopped with the crowd. Half of the fault goes to the WWE, half of the fault goes to the wrestler. In the case of Kofi, all of the fault goes to him. WWE had him hold belts, be in tag teams, be on his own, feud with top stars and all the guy can do is "bop bop", that's it. Very athletic, but that's about it.

Barrett has been a victim of crappy booking through most of his career. Still, the guy can't get over as a face or a heel. What does that mean? He's not talented enough. And he has been in solid storylines. He was the leader of the Nexus and recently WWE hyped his ass up real nice with vignettes and whatnot, still people don't seem to care too much. Once WWE's done with their little inside marketing, it's in your hands buddy and you flopped.

Then you have The Miz. This guy shouldn't even be considered as talented in my view. Son, if you go from a nobody to fighting in the Main Event of WrestleMania and people still don't give a fuck? It's your damn fault. Miz is a one trick pony, a watered down Chris Jericho and even that's a compliment. He's easy to hate because he looks like something you'd normally flush but he's average in the ring and people got tired of him in his first big year. Is that talent? I don't think so.

You can keep naming name after name but at the end of the day, WWE is not overflowing with talent. It's overflowing with WRESTLERS. Just because you're on the roster don't mean you're talented. Most of the people mentioned in the thread are talented in one single area and are average or below average in others. All of them have been pushed and failed to get over in some fashion. Most of them blew it themselves. Talented people don't do that.

The only talented people with true potential in the WWE right now are John Cena, CM Punk, Dolph Zigger, maybe Daniel Bryan. Everyone else would have to land in a roster without those people in order to shine. Shine by default that is. The people you mentioned are questionable and could potentially be on a good level. However, anyone can potentially be amazing.

Difference between the true talent of the WWE and the asshats you guys mentioned is that Cena was talented from day one. Punk was talented from day one. Ziggler (as Ziggler) was talented from day one. Even Bryan was talented from day one. You knew that these guys would be something someday. Can you say the same about Kofi? About Miz? About Swagger? About Cesaro? Do you see them on the level of Punk and Cena? I don't, and I'm thinking a lot of the WWE fans don't either. If they did, these guys would be over as fuck or at least over enough to give the WWE a reason to maintain their characters.

WWE isn't stupid. If someone makes them money they will push the holy hell out of him. If WWE drops someone from their list of important people to take care of, trust me, it's because they see no potential in them. It's not some genius move to swap between "the stars of tomorrow and the stars of today". It's a fucking test, and all of those people failed it multiple times, especially The Miz and Jack Swagger.

WWE doesn't have too much talent, it has just enough very good talent and a lot of average motherfuckers. That's the reality. Some people here see futuristic scenarios which I really don't think will come to fruition. Not even if the top guys right now are all gone tomorrow.

 

[Radical]

It might create a muddy mid card right now, but the excess talent will come in handy down the line when guys like Taker, HHH, Kane, Mark Henry, Big Show, Rey, Christian and Jericho are gone. We are probably 1-3 years away from seeing everyone on that list being done with wrestling in the WWE. Once that happens then we will get more defined roles for the guys you mentioned.

^ This is very true.

However, even mentioning those guys right now only Kane, Mark Henry and Big Show could be considered 'full-timers' in the WWE right now with Taker, HHH and Jericho only appearing sporatically and Rey and Christian still out 'injured'.

Now, that does mean WWE has to build guys to take up those roles but you can see how there are already guys who seem like they can take on those types of roles.

For example: Mark Henry replaced with Big E Langston, Rey replaced with Sin Cara or El Generico, Kane/Taker replaced by Ryback/Conor O'Brien, Jericho replaced by Fandango.

Now... even suggesting that actually makes me sad because those 'replacements' aren't nearly as good as the ones they could replace but my point is there are Superstars in place with some experience that could fill the types of roles that would be available once those guys leave for good.

As for the main topic question "is there too much talent?" Yes, if you mean there are too many Superstars on a WWE Contract.

If the WWE Roster page on WWE.com is accurate there are a bunch of guys on there that could/should be dropped to make some more room and it won't effect the issue of 'not having enough jobbers'.

Guys like JTG, Ezekiel Jackson, Mason Ryan, Ted Dibiase could all be dropped as they are hardly used by WWE anywhere, anytime and are either past their prime, used it all up or just aren't enough of draw.

Guys like Yoshi Tatsu and Zack Ryder could be dropped but they do indeed fill the role of jobber that, like it or not, is needed in pro wrestling. Plus guys like Evan Bourne, Tyson Kidd and Sin Cara are out injured and they usually pay the role of 'easy face' because of their fancy flying and athletic moves so they need to keep some non-injured 'jobbers' on hand.

Anyway... that said, still WWE should drop at least 4 or 5 of their male Superstars just to make room for Superstars returning from injury and probably some NXT call-ups.

 

[Pedigree1]

I do agree with the aspect of what Seven Zion said. Kofi is and wont ever be on the main event level. Yes he is super athletic but cannot get over and WWE basically has handed the moon and then some. 4 time IC Champ a what 3 time US champ and still cant get over. Yah its his own fault that is for sure. But as a whole yes i am in the mindset you can never have too much talent at all.

I like Antonio Cesaro i really do. Except with the recent bullshit yodeling he does now he is angry and cut a pretty damn good promo last night on raw. That guy to me is talented i think if you give him time he can and will get over with the crowd. Look some guys can right away some guys take time.

Pound for pound he is the strongest guy in the E has talent and can actually wrestle a decent match. Bray Wyatt,Kassius Ohno,and Adrian Neville look real good! You can never have too much of a good thing IMO

 

[drobs85]

I agree with the above poster. Maybe I been watching something else myself for the last 9 years. To much talent, seriously? So much talent but still depending on Triple H, Taker, to sale PPV etc the list goes on. That's a joke.

 

[the_migulator]

That's like a baseball team saying they have too much pitching. There is no such thing as too much talent.

Book the talent properly, and everyone wins. I still can't figure out how this logic escapes the writers and creative directors of WWE.

 

[DX Mols]

Here's what I don't understand. Why must the IC Champ, the US Champ, the tag Champ and even the WFC Champ lose so much on Raw/Smackdown?

I mean isn't there a lower-to-midcard group of wrestlers who can loses matches? I mean there's guys like Alex Riley, Mr. Perfect's kid, Dibiase Jr, Brotunga, etc who haven't been seen on TV in months but yet IC Champ Wade Barrett has to lose matches to R-Truth. It's just stupid, lazy booking.

With the roster that size and that many hours of programming each week, where are all these mid/low card guys at?

 

[#MrScissorsKick]

Talent? I don't think the WWE has too much talent. When is that a bad thing to have too much talent? That's why the WWE has RAW, Main Event, Superstars, Saturday Morning Slam, SmackDown, and NXT. However, the WWE has an influx of Mid-Card superstars that are probably standing around backstage doing next to nothing. That is one of the biggest problems WWE has. Too much Mid-Carders. Now wouldn't it make sense to put the wrestlers on different shows to showcase every star the company has? How many times have we seen the same match on RAW and then again on SmackDown? What if you didn't want to watch the match the first time? Now back to having everyone on different shows. I know the IWC hates and hated the Brand Extension as I have read many reasons why it was a mistake. However it makes more wrestlers get some tv time. This would be better if RAW and SmackDown cut down on the amount of recaps each show. So to answer this question, Does the WWE have too much talent? Yes and no. Yes because well just go look at the WWE roster. But no because not everyone is being used.

 

[fenderjapan]

There is no such thing as too much talent. There is, however, a such thing as having more talent than you have time to use. WWE is NOT currently in this situation.

WCW was almost in this situation in the late 90's when they had Savage, Hogan, Flair, Nash, Hall, Bret, Goldberg, Sting, Luger, DDP, Sid. They had a billion older main eventers so there was a glass ceiling for the Bookers, Benoits, Steiners, etc. But WWE isn't currently stuck with 10 40-somethings who refuse to work house shows. They are stuck with a pack of young main event caliber talent (and a few vets).

 

[Poop Master Flex]

It's not how much talent you have its how you utilize what you've got. I don't believe there is such a thing as too much talent but they may be better off if they cut a whole bunch of guys. Last I checked WWE has over 100 active wrestlers signed to some sort of deal whether it a developmental deal or a standard WWE contract. The truth is even with 5 shows a week you don't need 100 active bodies employed, unless you got a 2 hour show every week its just not necessary. Personally I would keep around 50-60 and use the rest on pay per appearance basis and let them work independents or in New Japan or something.

All in all I don't think having too much talent is a problem at all, if anything its a good thing to have a lot of guys to choose from. I do feel that whatever is going on in the back and in creative would be the biggest issue. Personally I don't know if I would call it an issue, its just the direction WWE is going in, not a fan of it but it is what it is.

 

[dotty_84]

There's a lot of Wrestlers but it's not brimming with talented ones. Utilizing who gets used is a huge problem, they have matches that if it was deemed good on either Raw or SD! they'll have it on the other show that's next the same match, near enough the same finish. I watch Raw but i don't watch SD! why because if it's important enough it'll translated over to Raw, they have the same talent keep the roster more divide to there's a reason to watch the other show, Having these same matches gets me angry because younger guys don't get exposure.

 

[Kidpolean]

I think that not having gimmicks is hurting the wwe. The talent may be good but they are all exactly the same. I mean what seperates the good from the great? mic skills? Wrestlers need to have real gimmicks and Im a guy in a suit that talks slow is not a gimmick. What is Kofi's gimmick? What is Wade Barrett's Gimmick? I honestly couldnt tell you much about wrestlers anymore. If someone asked me to describe Kofi's character I would say he is a black guy that jumps around a lot. Everyone just seems exactly the same and that is probably why its hard to push talent. I do think the wwe has talent but talent still needs a character. Hell even Cena doesnt really have a character he just a really nice guy that always tries his hardest. The Rock had a real gimmick, Austin had a real gimmick, Taker has a real gimmick but for some reason they dropped gimmicks and now everybody is just themselves and its rather boring.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I think that not having gimmicks is hurting the wwe. The talent may be good but they are all exactly the same. I mean what seperates the good from the great? mic skills? Wrestlers need to have real gimmicks and Im a guy in a suit that talks slow is not a gimmick. What is Kofi's gimmick? What is Wade Barrett's Gimmick? I honestly couldnt tell you much about wrestlers anymore. If someone asked me to describe Kofi's character I would say he is a black guy that jumps around a lot. Everyone just seems exactly the same and that is probably why its hard to push talent. I do think the wwe has talent but talent still needs a character. Hell even Cena doesnt really have a character he just a really nice guy that always tries his hardest. The Rock had a real gimmick, Austin had a real gimmick, Taker has a real gimmick but for some reason they dropped gimmicks and now everybody is just themselves and its rather boring.

Thank you, I've been saying this for some time too.

Being arrogant is not a gimmick.

And yet, if you look at guys like Ziggler, Miz, Barrett, Cesaro, and Del Rio, that's really all they've got.

Guess who has a gimmick and is finding success? Fandango. Crazy, huh?

I think the problem is that the WWE started preaching "find some aspect of yourself and play it to the hilt" as a way of finding an on-screen personality.

Well, great. You get a bunch of big musclebound jocks in a room who want to be the top of the WWE, and they all walk out playing up the exact same aspect of their personality.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

I was one of the few people who liked the Brand Extension, and this topic basically drives my home my point. If there were still separate rosters, guys like Barrett, Cesaro, and Sandow wouldn't get lost in the shuffle like they do now.

It's funny because there were years during the split Raw and Smackdown rosters, where it seemed like there wasn't ENOUGH talent to justify it. Guys like Rene Dupree and Mark Jindrak were getting LOTS of time on television when they brought nothing to the table. Now its a totally opposite scenario.

 

[Raptor93]

They have too much programing and not enough talented guys to fill it. Theres like 8 hours or so of televised WWE and they need superstars to cover that many hours but there arent enough guys even like Sandow who can be interesting character.

 

[HillBilly]

They have nowhere near enough talent. If they had talent Ryback wouldn't be getting a title shot at Extreme Rules. They may have too many wrestlers but they do not have too much talent. I agree with the four guys Zeven_Zion mentioned: Bryan, Ziggler, Punk, and Cena. (And I have hated Cena long before hating Cena was cool but I recognize what he and his jhorts bring to the table.)

 

[Caitiff]

The problem isn't the amount of talent. It's the quality. While WWE has a huge roster, and could easily field (at least) four separate territories, not many of those people have the ability to put an ass every 24 inches. Simply put, WWE may have a highly talented roster, but the overwhelming majority of them are worthless, since people won't pay to see them.

 

[TempestH]

They have a good amount of talent, but the problem is that they aren't managing their time wisely and using everyone to their fullest.

And a problem that I see is not that the roster is too bloated, but that the roster is too top heavy. There are too many main eventers, or more accurately, too many guys that WWE likes to pass off as "main eventers".

John Cena
CM Punk
Alberto Del Rio
Jack Swagger
Dolph Ziggler
Kane
Daniel Bryan
Big Show
Randy Orton
Sheamus
Mark Henry
The Miz (He's firmly in the midcard, but WWE still makes him out to be a main eventer, and the casual fans still think he's a main eventer)
Wade Barrett (he's a midcard champion, but he's booked a lot stronger than real midcarders like Kofi, etc.)
The Shield (as a unit)
Chris Jericho (when he's around)
Christian (when he's around)
Rey Mysterio (when he's around)

Each of these talents makes a seemingly obligatory appearance on RAW and SmackDown (except Cena/Punk) every week. WWE seems to feel as though these talents "have to" be on every show It leaves little room for the midcard because all these "main eventers" "have" to be booked first.

All of their PPV events are loaded with top talents like as if they were supercards. WWE throws every "important" person on a PPV, again leaving little room for the midcard.

It's made even worse when guys like Henry, Jericho, and Swagger are rushed back for WrestleMania but with no solid plans for them beyond that. When the part timers like Rock/HHH/Lesnar are around, everyone gets bumped down a level in importance. The guys who would normally main event would be in the upper midcard. Upper midcarders become midcarders. Midcarders get bumped to the C-shows, and the C-show regulars end up disappearing altogether.

 

[Ovaltine]

WWE has lots of wrestlers, but few are quality talents that can put asses in seats. Currently there are only two (not including the part time guys) the first being Cena and the second being Punk. Beyond that WWE doesn't have anything except a bunch of guys that they push in the hopes that they get over.

 

[Radical]

Here's what I don't understand. Why must the IC Champ, the US Champ, the tag Champ and even the WFC Champ lose so much on Raw/Smackdown?

I mean isn't there a lower-to-midcard group of wrestlers who can loses matches? I mean there's guys like Alex Riley, Mr. Perfect's kid, Dibiase Jr, Brotunga, etc who haven't been seen on TV in months but yet IC Champ Wade Barrett has to lose matches to R-Truth. It's just stupid, lazy booking.

With the roster that size and that many hours of programming each week, where are all these mid/low card guys at?

This is a very good point.

I don't quite understand it either. I'm not a huge fan of most of the title holders right now BUT even I don't understand why, if they are Champions, they are losing so much on TV!

If WWE wants to push guys like Orton, Henry, Sheamus, Big Show so much ... then GIVE THEM the damn titles. Might as well give Orton the IC title and Henry the US title or whatever. I know it seems like a step down for those guys but the fact is they are winning most of their matches so they would actually make those titles look better by holding them. Plus, if they did have the titles they could say exactly that "This title is a joke and it only means something now that I'M holding it".

I understand the Champs have to lose SOMETIMES but the rate at which Champions are losing is way over done.

It's like they give a guy a title just so he can put his name in the record books and start piling up a 'X number of days as Champion' record yet he is losing most of his matches but it "doesn't matter" because he's still the champ.

Hey, what ever happened to that 30 day mandatory title defense rule? OR how about they institute a better rule: If the Champion loses more than 2 matches in a row their next match HAS to be for the Title (because obviously if they are losing that much they aren't worthy to be Champion).