Do You Need Both Teams to be Good in Order to Have/Continue a Rivalry?

[People's Champ]

This was a big discussion locally on a radio show. The Giants-Dodgers rivalry is a big one out here in California, and is one of the big ones in sports. But as of late, it seemed to have died out a little bit, thanks to the situation that Frank McCourt has put them in. I say seemed, though, because an entire show was spent on whether or not the rivalry has ended for now, and it was a split response. You had the group of fans who feel pity for the Dodgers and their plight, and don't really see the rivalry being there now. Then, there were the group of fans who couldn't care less about their situation, and hate the Dodgers now just as much as they have before.

That got me to thinking: Do you need both teams to be good in order to have/continue a rivalry?

This could go a number of ways. Some people feel that both teams need to be good, need to be in contention in order for the rivalry to mean something. For others, it runs too deep to just be meaningless. For them, when the two teams meet, you can throw out the records; its on.

So where do you fall? Does it matter to you if the teams involved are good or not?

 

[Nas pins jay-z]

In the pros it matters, but not in college. Michigan is officially ohio state's bitch and it's still a great rivalry. Even the rare years unc is down, I still look forward to them owning duke. On the other hand, Browns vs. Steelers is pretty much dead. The squealers have moved on to the ravens because browns haven't played like an afc team, but sadly more like a big 10 team. At least I can fall back on my cowboys.

 

[Big Sexy]

Like Nas said it doesn't matter at all in college. In the pros, however, it can definitely affect the rivalry. If it's a true rivalry then it will continue no matter what but it can certainly be watered down. When one team is great and the other sucks, the rivalry loses a lot of it's luster.

For this reason it is easy to tell what the best rivalries are in pro sports. When one or both of the teams suck and the game is still a big deal then you know it's a great rivalry. Up until this past season the Raiders and Chiefs had both been shit for a few years but the rivalry was still going strong because of the hatred between the two teams and the strength of the rivalry.

Basically both teams don't have to be good to continue a rivalry, but unless the rivalry is really strong then the games will certainly lose a lot of their affect.

 

[MVP12]

No i dont think it matters, Over here in Massachusetts, the obvious rivalry is red sox and yankees. The Red Sox have had some god aweful teams while the yankees were still great, and yet the rivalry continued. So no i dont think it matters, i mean the sox are hated by the rays and now we have a possibly rivalry with Baltimore.

 

[Davi323]

In the pros it matters, but not in college. Michigan is officially ohio state's bitch and it's still a great rivalry..

Bitches wouldn't lead the series 57-44-3. Funny how everyone only focuses on the Cheater-vest's years, and ignore all of the years that came before. Like say, the John Cooper years???

Yeah, Cheater-Vest has beaten Michigan. But he also ran a damn crooked program since he pulled into Columbus, was forced to resign, the program is going to get anally fucked by the NCAA without lube, and I don't know if you follow recruiting much, but Brady Hoke has been DESTROYING OLieo State in recruiting, especially the kids from Ohio.

 

[TheKingHustla]

This is a serious subject so be ready for some serious arguments/debates. Not from me though, but from serious college fans like Davi323, which is the best thing about college sports.

On topic, I think that winning is key in rivalries now. When two pro teams play, it means more to them with something on the line. if you "rival" can't make it to those big moments, then why even consider them a rival? Back in the days, personal rivalries could carry team rivalries, much like Magic/Bird, but even they went to two teams that won. Now, that rivalry has just picked back up, but for a while there, it was pretty dormant, because the Celtics couldn't win (when they had paul pierce, antoine walker and a cast of nobodies) and the lakers kept winning. You can also look at Lakers/Kings, which many felt was gonna be the next big rivalry when they played each other in the playoffs when the kings had chris webber, mike bibby, doug christie, vlade, hedo, peja, my dog bobby jack and all of those guys (damn, looking back on it, that team was monstrous in those days) against the SuperLakers who had d-fish, kobe, rick fox, robert horry, shaq diesel and deavan george, but it died soon after because the King's quickly became irrelevant.

To be honest, there isn't really that many big rivalries these days in professional sports because there isn't those huge dynasty teams like in the past. College sports on the other hand, have tons of heated rivalries because every game means something (or atleast, almost every game). Also, the fans are more passionate about the teams, thus leading to bigger, more relevant rivalries.

In a nutshell, relevancy=rivalry.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

Interesting topic. The essence of a rivalry is that both teams hate each other and so they raise their level of play when they're playing their arch rival. Both teams don't necessarily have to be good but it definitely takes the rivalry to another level if both teams are good. Sometimes, rivalries are born because both teams are good and must constantly go through each other in order to get to or win their league's championship.

If both teams are good and then one gets bad, sometimes the rivarly dies out, especially if it arose simply from both teams being good. If it arose for some other reason, it won't necessarily die out if one team is not good. If one team is not good for a prolonged period of time, that usually will kill the rivalry.

I look at the Red Wings vs. Avalanche rivalry of the mid to late 90s in the NHL as an interesting example. Both teams were really good and so when they played each other, there was usually some significance to the game. Then the incident with Claude Lemieux took it to whole new level. However, the teams played each other in the playoffs several times with Colorado having to beat Detroit to get to the Finals then Detroit having to beat Colorado to get to the Finals. Once Colorado started to fall off, the rivalry died out though.

 

[Nas pins jay-z]

As for hoke, unfortunatly I have seen his recruiting skills. Impressive. We'll see how good he is though when urb becomes our coach next year. I'm kinda rooting for bitchigan this year cause even though it's still the best rivalry, I want it to be where it was a few years back when we where meeting as the top 2 teams in the country with a national championship berth on the line. Even though mich broke our hearts in the cooper years, the memories stand out cause something was on the line. And if they are good enough to make the toilet bowl this year, I hope they get a sec team and destroy them. Big 10 needs to show them we are in the same class.

 

[RattleRockerJet97]

Ok ill put it like this.

Im a huge NY Jets fan, I live in South Florida. The Jets and Dolphins rivalry has always draw all the fans to their games and these 2 teams when faced against each other always have put on a great game and manage to keep it close. Its been like that all 7 years ive went to these games. Usually though the Dolphins are always the underdog teams since the Jets have had better seasons these past 10 years. But that really doesnt stop the excitment, lack of media attention pretty much does. There was a year where both teams sucked the big one, no one cared except for me and other Dolpin and Jets fans.

On a pro level it matters more since theres going to be more media tension. I should know, Jets and Patriots are now always talked about since both teams nowadays are right at the top of the leaderboards and standings. The media swarms in, NFLNET,ESPN, CBS all hype these main rivalry games and they should, they usually end in awesome games.(or in the Jets case last year, complete failure and then remergance). So its more half and half.

Put it this way, its much more exciting to see both teams do good and have a "Clash of the Titans" braging rights rivalry game than just a normal, neither team will make a difference to anyone so, whatever.

I cant speak college football though, thats probably much more intense.

 

[bigandpissed]

I don't think both teams need to be good in order to continue a rivalry. I can actually argue that rivalries take on more of a meaning (for one side at least) when one team is shitty.

For example I'm a hardcore bears fan, and I hate the packers with a passion. Around the years 2002-2004 we were fucking terrible and the only games that truly mattered to us bears fans at the time were beating the packers because we knew we had no shot at the playoffs.

When both teams are shitty its even better, because that game is essentially the superbowl for both teams because its by far the most important game (from a team pride standpoint) of the year.