Did Bret Hart bring the Screwjob situation on himself?

Discussion in 'Old School Wrestling' started by TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP, Jan 23, 2017.

  1. TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP

    TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP Pre-Show Stalwart

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    14
    Has anyone watched "Wrestling with Shadows" for goodness sake???? In Bret's documentary, "Wrestling with Shadows", Bret lets the viewer know that he had REASONABLE Creative Control for his last thirty days and is kind enough to explain what that actually entails. He tells the viewer that he had the power to nix or rework any storyline he felt would have been detrimental to the "Hitman" character (because Bret was afraid VKM would shit on the Hitman character on his (Bret's) way out of the company) but all the other power, such as who goes over in the matches and such, was in Vince McMahon's control.

    Also, the reason for Bret leaving the WWF is dubious to say the least. We've been given the story that VKM had negotiated a contract with Bret for 20 mil, but could not honour it, and that VKM had suggested to Bret to go negotiate a contract with WCW. This is what we've been told and yet on "Wrestling with Shadows" Bret recounts a conversation he'd had with VKM where he'd told VKM that he didn't want to talk about money anymore, that he would stay for the same deal they already had and that all Bret wanted was for McMahon to show was some sort of commitment towards him. The strange thing about this conversation is that the supposedly 20 mil deal Bret had had with McMahon/the WWF WAS the problem, so how could Bret expect McMahon to make a commitment towards him when he wasn't seemingly wanting to budge from that supposed deal? (unless that deal never existed)

    The only way this conversation makes sense to me is if Bret had played the WCW card to get an even better deal out of VKM, (something Bret states in his book he'd played at least twice before, including some up-coming court cases against Vince, during contract negotiations in the past) but this time VKM had refused to play ball and had basically told Bret to go to the WCW and get something out of them. What also needs to be taken into considereation as well is that Bret was 40 years of age by this time and entering his twilight years (his career in the ring was nearly over) whereas Shawn Michaels, being 7-8 years younger than Bret, was in his absolute prime. I think Bret thought he could demand whatever he wanted because he was such a mark for himself, but McMahon, as always, had his business head on during contract negotiations and didn't see things from a business standpoint the same way as Bret.

    Lastly, has anyone read Bret's book for goodness sake???? In there you are given a clear indication of the reason why Bret refused to job to Shawn Michaels not just in Canada but also anywhere in the world - and the reason was because Shawn had apparently disrespected him when he said he would not return the favour of putting Bret over. So, essentially, what happened was that Bret decided to throw his dummy/pacifier on the floor and his toys out of his pram, took a backstage problem, blew it all out of context and planted it firmly in the public arena so he could then bitch, whine and moan like a 60 year old harpy about the unfairness of it all.

    All in all Bret behaved exactly like a spoilt child behaves when a parent refuses them something. He basically gave a massive FU to the boys in the back who'd helped make him the star he became all because he couldn't handle someone threatening to never roll over for him inside the ring. Boo Hoo Hoo. In answer to the question, yes Bret was massively wrong to attempt what he attempted to do, which was to leave the WWF an unbeaten Champion and leave the WWF high and dry without one - the stupid prick!
     
    #1
  2. MFR0mack

    MFR0mack Occasional Pre-Show

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    14
    First off, Bret never had a 20 million dollar deal. He had a 20 year deal for 9 million dollars, which was the same amount WCW was offering him for three years. It was structured something like 1.5 million a year for three years as a wrestler, 500 thousand a year for five years working as a consultant/booker similar to Pat Patterson, then 150 thousand a year for ten years as a spokesperson for the company.

    Secondly, through 1997 Vince constantly flip-flopped back and forth telling Bret he couldn't or could pay him. The last time, in September 1997 a little over a month before Survivor Series, he actively encouraged Bret to recheck if WCW's offer was still on the table, claimed he would help secretly get him a better deal and blatantly lied, saying that it would actually do Vince a favor because he was restructuring the WWF into a small northeastern promotion.

    This isn't all from Bret's book, either. Meltzer was constantly writing about this stuff through 1997 and other wrestlers from that era that were present have said the same things. Vince was being manipulated by Shawn, who was actively trying to get rid of Bret. He just wanted to beat Bret again before he left, to rub salt in the wound.

    You sound very salty in general in your opinion on Bret, and the mistakes in your details tell me you're kind of new to the story. Calm down a little and try to be more objective.
     
    #2
    Fillet Club likes this.
  3. TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP

    TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP Pre-Show Stalwart

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    14
    @MFR0mack I've been documenting the Montreal Screwjob blame game for years, and i'm sorry if you see things through the lens of Bret Hart and his fans. Unfortunately, I have the correct actual truth of lens in who is the one that deserved the most blame that led to the Montreal Screwjob. I have been noticing that Bret's fanbase gets all very super salty when it comes to him being criticized thinking only Bret should be exempt from criticism and everyone else is fair game for criticism, ironic given that Bret himself is no saint backstage and he's a philanderer who cheated on his wife with groupies.

    Bret is no exception from criticism like everyone else, so nobody is exempt from criticism. Especially the one who failed to make a lot of money for the WWF during the mid 1990s.

    Shawn Michaels is very honest about admitting that he had drug issues and all other behavioral issues in the mid-to-late 1990s. Why doesn't Bret Hart take most of the blame? Why is he looked at as a saint? To me, Bret's matches are boring, but the biggest glaring issue I see of Bret is that he acts like a holier-than-thou moral crusader. He tried to go on talk shows to express his disdain for the WWF's Attitude Era, which would go on to be the biggest successful boom period the WWF's ever had, even if it was more short term than the WWF's Golden Era from 1983-84 to 1991-92.

    Don't blame Vince McMahon for the Montreal Screwjob. The MSJ (in retrospect) was a good thing for all involved. It created the villainous Mr. McMahon character, switching him from a former overly-excited but boring play-by-play commentator who belonged in 1991 than 1997 into an evil boss who only cares about his company and the money, and also someone who wanted to put a stop to the rebellion of Austin, Rock, DX, Foley, Taker and Kane.

    I am always honest about why I prefer Shawn over Bret, because it was easier for Vince to fit Shawn into the Attitude Era, which benefitted Austin and HBK moreso from the get-go than the old-school Bret. Shawn to me was an exciting wrestler who can also cut some shoot promos and funny promos when needed. He was just held back from being a cocky face champion made to be watered down to a Stepford Smiler face champion, and his friend Diesel also suffered a similar fate as HBK when both were at separate points, face champions. If only HBK and Diesel weren't held back from being themselves when both were babyface World Champs, maybe they would've eclipsed Bret in terms of staying power and excitement.

    And with Attitude on the horizon post-SummerSlam '97, Vince made the correct choice in keeping Shawn Michaels over Bret Hart anyway. The Attitude Era was tailor made for Steve Austin and Shawn Michaels as the WWF's poster boys for the Attitude, an era filled with grunge music, youthful ethos, widespread cynicism and anti-heroes were getting increasingly more popular each day, so cookie-cutter heroes like Bret just wouldn't cut it anyway, especially not with how he was outspoken about being against the Attitude Era. It's just Bret being a hypocritical moral crusader when he was the same guy who had sex with groupies behind Julie's back, while acting against the Attitude.
     
    #3
  4. Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.

    Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. Kamehamehaaaaa!!

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,438
    Likes Received:
    370
    It is widely known that Bret didn't want to drop the belt to HBK. He had no problem dropping it to Austin or Foley though, on RAW the following night. That is known.

    However Vince knew that Austin was not ready yet and wanted him to win the title at Wrestlemania. Vince also knew that Bret was getting old. Bret knew that Vince knew that, so Bret wanted to go somewhere else and make some more final money.

    Then there's the 20-year contract. LOL. Why would anyone sign a freaking 20 year contract. No, why would anyone offer a 40-year old wrestler a 20-year contract? They wouldn't. It was a swerve from Vince, because he simply wanted Bret to leave, because he knew, that with the money he could save from getting rid of Bret's big contract, he could get Tyson at Wrestlemania and with HBK also in the mix, he could elevate Steve Austin and finally fight back against WCW.

    It was a brilliant strategy from Vince and Hitler would be proud. But I can't accept the fact that Bret brought this to himself. Bret is one of those people who still had pride in themselves and a respectful name. HBK was an a-hole. He had screwed Bret on numerous occassions and he was there once again to screw Bret over and beat him. How could Bret accept that?

    I'm sure if Vince had asked Bret for an extension until WM so that Austin can beat him there, Bret would have accepted. However Vince knew that he needed more for WM, something different, but didn't have the cash to go for it. So he had to let Bret go, protect the WWF title by not making it a hot potato and also have HBK, the last big star, put over Austin.
     
    #4
    Kodo Sawaki likes this.
  5. Kodo Sawaki

    Kodo Sawaki Championship Contender

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    333
    From my understanding they all acted like children. Bret didnt want to lose to Michaels in Canada, Vince didnt want to honor Brets contract and didnt want another Alundra Blaze to happen when Bret goes to WCW still as Champion, and Shawn in his backstage politics wanted to ensure that after all that he stands on top and was lying not only to Bret but to all how he didnt knew even though he and even HHH were actively involved in planning it. In that kids game Vince and Shawn got what they wanted and Bret was screwed.

    Has he brought it on himself? Well, he was disgruntled employee with big ego who saw opportunity to jump the ship when he saw that Vince was screwing him out for money that he was promised and that there are not big plans for him in new direction of the company. He just did what any smart employee would do and gone to competition while his stock were still big. Unfortunately for him, his boss also had big ego and vindictive personality. So, Bret played his cards right, but the game was rigged.
     
    #5
  6. TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP

    TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP Pre-Show Stalwart

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    14
    Shawn Michaels jobbed to Bret Hart several times, and the actual rivalry between them really started in 1990 when Bret and Shawn were both still tag team partners of Jim Neidhart and Marty Jannetty, respectively. The first time we see an instance of Bret moaning about having to job to Shawn aka The Rockers, was when The Rockers were scheduled to become the WWF World Tag Team Champions by defeating The Hart Foundation to do so, because Neidhart was looking at leaving the WWF.

    Bret whined, stomped his foot and balled up his fist at Vince until Vince caved in to his demands by extending Neidhart's contract, by magically keeping the WWF Tag Team Championship Belts and kayfabe cited a broken turnbuckle padding as the reason why The Rockers' tag team championship reign ended up becoming null and void. Thus The Rockers ended up never becoming WWF Tag Team Champions at all, leading up to their breakup in '91-'92 with Shawn Michaels becoming Sexy Boy while Jannetty floundered with drinking problems, brushes with the law and Shawn Michaels being simply better than Marty.

    The truth is: Shawn Michaels did job to Bret Hart heaps of times, and Shawn never complained. But when it was time for Bret Hart to do the same for Shawn at WM12 and Survivor Series '97, Bret whined, stomped his foot and balled up his fist in anger over a simple request for him to lose to Shawn. Bret was never happy about Hulk Hogan refusing to pass the torch to him, what made us think Bret would do the same thing to Shawn? And I'm aware of the possibility that Bret Hart played the most amount of backstage politics more so than The Kliq could ever dream to be doing. The Kliq actually cared about looking out for the money, the business and increasing everyone's guaranteed pay salary. As Scott Hall stated, Bret would rather be happy being the $400 dollar champion because Bret was a mark who cared about winning championships than putting fans in the seats, while Hall cared about getting paid, and there's nothing wrong with getting paid easy money. It's better to take the easy money of pay than to be a mark for yourself and act like wrestling is real to you.

    Difference? Hogan was a bigger draw for the WWF and a successful one for WWF and WCW, whereas Bret failed to move the needle as the WWF's top draw from '92-'93 through '96-'97. When Bret was the top draw, Vince never really wanted to go with Bret as his top guy, and for good reason. Vince contemplated having Lex Luger, Kevin Nash and Shawn Michaels as his guys besides the stop-gap Bret, until Steve Austin was ready for prime time super stardom in '97-'98. Plus, Bret was 35 when he got his first main event push, so Vince knew there wouldn't be any upside in the WWF being successful with Bret as the top draw.

    Shawn Michaels had more upside, potential to be a bigger draw than Bret ever could. Plus, HBK was only 30-31 when he got his main event push, and there were more opportunities for Vince to run with Michaels as a perennial main eventer than Bret.
     
    #6
  7. Spencesc11

    Spencesc11 Getting Noticed By Management

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    50
    When a wrestler has to much creative control in can be very damaging for the product. Vince had every reason not to let Bret leave for WCW as the WWE Champion.

    It's alot like in WCW when Hogan was there and would win the belt back from someone shortly after a PPV loss.

    Luger wins Title prior to hog wild Hogan wins it back 6 days later
    Savage upsets Sting for title at PPV, Hogan wins next night on Nitro

    Even look at Stone Cold when it took the Rock 3 "Rock Bottoms" to beat him? C'mon??

    Clearly the top stars generate money but the product needs to have some ability to swerve based on fan reaction to.
     
    #7
    HBKperfect23 likes this.
  8. Ol'Canucklehead

    Ol'Canucklehead Pre-Show Stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    36
    If you're going to talk about looking through Bret coloured glasses then look in the mirror because yours are little hearts. lol It's not about Shawn doing the job in the past it was the agreement that was made that Bret would drop the belt in the Iron Man match and Shawn would eventually return the favour. He couldn't because he faked an injury and "lost his smile". People talk about how the business works and Bret spit on the business, but Shawn did so first. Regardless, Bret had the creative control part of his contract and that should have been honoured.
     
    #8
  9. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,327
    Likes Received:
    861
    Bret did bring it on himself in many ways, this was in effect proven by the lack of a lawsuit. Had his contract actually been such that Vince had breached, then WCW would have happily funded the suit just to damage them.

    The key was that word, reasonable and however much Bret tried to appear reasonable in Wrestling With Shadows... there were little chinks in that armor all the way through. What at the time was a positive piece for him now, 20 years later looks somewhat tragic. He clearly THOUGHT he was right, but in reality wasn't anywhere near... he was probably under stress in his marriage and THAT was having an influence on decisions he was making as much as what Vince was actually doing to him.

    It'll be interesting to see how WWE and Bret himself mark the anniversary. I wouldn't be shocked if there is another release of Wrestling With Shadows, perhaps with the full "recorded conversation" or similar (with Vince's blessing) as at this point it couldn't damage WWE to have that out there. I feel the only reason we wouldn't now see that is because Bret probably doesn't want the world to really know how he behaved back then... not cos he's ashamed, but cos it would damage his legacy to some fans... many of whom take his 4-10 jibes etc to make him bitter...

    Bottom line is Bret would have lost in court on that reasonable word... No one could reasonably have risked their business on him "doing the right thing" in WCW with the title. So Bret's refusal of all options that didn't suit was in fact, wholly unreasonable.

    The proof in the pudding is that in many ways it was the salvation of the WWF/WWE and almost the final nail in Bret's career.
     
    #9
  10. Jonyboyuk2

    Jonyboyuk2 Getting Noticed By Management

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    71
    Morally correct and Legally correct are two very different things.

    Legally, the truth is Vince gave Bret a time window to get out of his contract and negotiate with WCW. Had Bret not signed by Saturday November 1st 1997 then he would not be allowed to have left. Vince agreed a contract with Bret a year earlier and had advised Bret he was going to break that contract deliberately as he could not afford to pay it. The fact is, in response to this, Bret got given the chance to serve notice on Vince that his contract was going to end. That is what was agreed. Bret gave his notice and signed with WCW from 01/12/1997 - during his last 30 days Bret had reasonable creative control. This means Bret had total control over how and when he lost the WWF title before 30/11/97.

    Whatever anyone says or believes - this is exactly how it would have been interpreted in Law. It would be deemed reasonable as the judge would likely see the whole purpose of the last 30 days creative control as being there to preserve Bret's character.

    As for morally correct - Vince kinda screwed Bret many times over that preceding year. Bret should have really just pulled up injured and sat out the last month of his contract. It was morally wrong what Vince did to Bret - mostly because Vince should not have put Bret in that situation anyway. Bret had been loyal to Vince for many years, and one of his most hard working generals. That last year, Bret had brought along many wrestlers behind the scenes- Edge, Christian, Ken Shamrock and The Rock to name but a few.

    The saddest thing is; Bret Hart worked his entire life for Stu Hart or Vince McMahon. He respected Vince like a father figure. Bret spent his life travelling the world but only really seeing the inside of airports or terrible poverty and he truly felt like a hero to millions of kids all around the world - because he was.

    When Vince killed the Hitman character at SS97, Bret never really was the same again. When you read his autobiography, it is so telling just how much it broke Bret's heart.

    So NO- Bret did not deserve what happened. It is unfair of anyone to say this!
     
    #10
  11. Jonyboyuk2

    Jonyboyuk2 Getting Noticed By Management

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    71
    Bret did not sue because he broke his hand when he broke Vince's jaw. They would have counter-sued each other and it wasn't what Bret wanted. He was genuinely scared he would have his matches and back catalogue of matches destroyed by WWF.
     
    #11
  12. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    70
    Well if you want to be technical then YES Bret did the bring the "Screwjob" upon himself by refusing to job cleanly to Shawn Michaels but as well know the story is more complicated than that.

    Bret did the job at WrestleMania 12 with the full expectation Shawn would return the favor down the line. Bret knew Shawn was the guy Vince was going with and wanted to put himself in a position to draw money with Shawn for years to some so he started building the angle with him starting that night in the ring when Bret walked off without shaking hands. Then Bret started trashing Shawn in the media. According to Bret he was "working" but Shawn, unbeknownst to him, was taking things personal. Shawn was also very insecure about his position as WWF Champion at the time because business was suffering. Shawn also resented Bret for taking time off during his reign as champion and not supporting him when Shawn (who was IC champ) worked in support of Bret when he was WWF Champion. So seeds of resentment were being sown between Shawn and Bret on both sides.

    Then came the contract. Hall and Nash had jumped to WCW. WCW had just made a 3 million dollar per year offer to Bret. Now it depends who you believe, but Bret got the 20 year 1.5 million dollar contract out it. It made him the highest paid WWF Superstar which irked Shawn even more since we knew his run was ending and Bret (by virtue of his contract) would be getting the push. As a result Shawn throws a tantrum and refuses to work with Bret at WrestleMania This is documented in Shawn's book. So YES Shawn refused to work with Bret at WrestleMania. Shawn comes up with the knee injury (which he's had since 1990) to keep from getting pinned and it leads to more resentment on Bret's part because Shawn refuses to "return the favor".

    Meanwhile Bret turns heel and does his anti-American gimmick. Shawn is still a babdyface at the time and he and Bret continue to go back and forth leading to "worked-shoot" promos where they attack each other personally. Bret tries to defuse the situation leading to a tepid truce. The truce is broken with the "Sunny Days" comment. Bret hurts his knee and his match with Shawn is delayed. In reality, Bret was afraid of hurting Shawn over the Sunny comments. Bret continues to ignore Shawn until the Hartford incident where both men fight in the locker room. Shawn storms into Vince's office and threatens to leave (again how can you blame Bret to leveraging WCW against Vince when Shawn does the same thing)

    Vince meets with Shawn and I STRONGLY believe this where Vince decides he needs to get rid of Bret Hart. Vince turns Shawn heel as is immediately in competition with Bret. So Vince again plays both against each other. Shawn becomes the number 1 heel feuding with Undertaker while Bret (now as WWF Champion) feuds with Patriot. Bret is frustrated. Vince is sowing seeds with Bret, first telling him he needs to pay him the money owed to him on the back end of his deal and then outright saying he can't afford to pay him and seek employment with WCW. Bret is SHOCKED by this "admission" in reality it was a way to get rid of Bret Hart. SO Bret (on orders from Vince) negotiates with WCW. He is able to secure a contract from WCW but again Bret DOES NOT want to leave. He simply asks where is character is going and basically told he will never be the top guy again. He will put over Shawn multiple times before finally winning a match on RAW. Vince knows this will be unacceptable to Bret. Bret says to Shawn he has no problem putting him over but Shawn basically spits in his face saying he will not do the same. This is where BRET REFUSES to lose to Shawn using Canada as an excuse. We all know it comes down to

    1) Shawn not returning the favor
    2) the "Sunny Days" comment
    3) Vince choosing Shawn over Bret

    Bret does the unthinkable and refuses to do the job to Shawn. According to Bret to offered to drop it BEFORE the PPV or AFTER but wanted to Shawn to put him over first. Soit comes down to two prima donnas who HATE each other and a boss who is in love with one of the prima donnas at the expense of the other. The rest is history. So how does Bret get blames for this? When it was Shawn who refused to put Bret over and Vince who allowed Bret to negotiate with WCW?
     
    #12
    Kodo Sawaki likes this.
  13. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    12,958
    Likes Received:
    3,793
    There was no clear cut "good guy and bad guy" when it came to the Montreal Screwjob as both sides did and said things that they shouldn't be proud of.

    On one hand, Vince should've have told Bret Hart that he accepted Hart's decision not to drop the title in Canada. Vince could have taken the high road and said that his decision was final; it may have hurt Survivor Series if Bret simply threw down the belt and told Vince to go screw himself but every once in a great while you should put principles ahead of money. If Bret Hart agreed to do the job, Vince could've had him followed to make sure he didn't just take off with the belt and show up on Nitro with it as Vince was afraid was going to happen. If that'd happened, then Vince could say all these years later that he was 100% in the right.

    On the other hand, Bret Hart could've been professional enough to do his job. He was leaving the company anyhow for a big fat WCW contract and with Hart being the traditionalist he always claimed to be, dropping the title in his last match for the company to his successor was the traditional thing to do. When it all boils down to it, Bret Hart let his own ego for not wanting to lose in Canada and his personal dislike of Shawn Michaels get in the way of being a pro.

    So did he bring it upon himself? Well, yeah I think so when you look at it from the perspective of both sides. They did each other dirty, no question: Vince lied his ass off to Bret Hart about the whole issue of not dropping the title at the ppv while Bret Hart was essentially holding the company hostage via the implied threat to ruin the Survivor Series main event. Both sides could've taken the high road but neither one was willing to back down.
     
    #13
  14. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,792
    Likes Received:
    272
    The problem I have with Bret Hart is that, yes Shawn did the wrong thing by Bret, Vince did the same thing by Bret.

    Yet, Bret criticizes Shawn for playing politics, and acting like he would never do that, and then does exactly the same thing.

    It isn't that Bret was only doing what Shawn did first, it was Bret's self-righteousness in that he was better than Shawn, when his actions in the end show that he was no better.

    Bret should have agreed to do the job at SS '97, and then could hold the high moral ground. But Bret prefers to play the victim.

    Shawn played politics, and was a "bastard". The difference was, Shawn never claimed to be anything else (he hadn't cleaned up his life until many years later). Bret pushed his moral stance around, and often spoke about the "immorality" of things that WWE did. It was Bret's self-righteousness and hypocrisy that was the problem.

    Also, Shawn said that he knew what was going to happen, everyone else knew what would happen (at SS '97), and he believed, deep down in Bret's heart, Bret "knew" what was going on to.

    Two scenes in "Wrestling With Shadows" stand out to me. Bret asked Earl Hebner if "something was going down tonight" and if Hebner would call it down the line. Why would he ask Hebner this? If Bret never saw it coming, why would he ask the referee for his match these questions?

    Also, Bret pulls Vince aside before the match, and goes to talk to him privately in the corner. But Bret is wearing a mike, so we can hear the conversation. Why would Bret record a private conversation, and not tell Vince?

    I think Bret knew something was going to happen, but maybe not all the details. So to claim to be totally surprised is wrong.

    In the end, Bret could have just kicked out of the submission Bret could have refused to do the match. What would Vince do, fire him? He was already leaving, so he could have turned the tables.

    But Bret's image is all important to him. He has to look like the good guy in any situation, so blames others for things that went wrong, when some of it is his own fault.
     
    #14
  15. New Hot Fed

    New Hot Fed Championship Contender

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    41
    He wanted Bret to leave so he gave him a 20 years contract? Right. That makes all the sense in the World there, buddy. He should have just let him you know, walk since he was a free agent. The WWF have had all they need from him too. When he got offered this contract, it was after Mania 1996, after Shawn had defeated him and the WWF didn't even need Bret anymore since they had his success in Michaels.

    The only reason they offered him that it's cause Vince panicked cause WCW had just taken Razor and Diesel. Since they realised Bret felt slighted but the sudden HBK push, they thought the only way we can match what WCW is offering is by offering him a sort of lifetime contract. What they didn't know was that Bret had no intention to go to WCW anyway, he was a WWF guy for life.

    Then later on, not only the WWF was in financial diffulties but Vince realised you know, we don't really need Bret. Especially after he made Stone Cold at Mania.

    Now as far as the screwjob, it happened cause Bret was too much of a mark. A mark for the business and himself. After the WWF let him go and had his contract voided so he could go to WCW, Bret should have just gone to Vince's office and say "there, take it, take the belt. I'm not in the WWF anymore". There would have been no debates, no crazyness, it would have made sense since Vince didn't want him anyway. But he had pride and thought the belt was important. But it really wasn't. Especially for his sakes.
     
    #15
  16. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    70
    It basically came down to Bret's EXTREME dislike for Shawn Michaels. He felt Shawn slighted him professionally in the case of the "return match". He felt Shawn disrespected him personally in the 'Sunny Days" comment and he felt Shawn was the main reason he was now being pushed out the door by Vince. He has said the main reason for refusing to do the honors for Shawn is he felt Shawn was disrespectful and didn't deserve the honor. If you want to call that "being a mark" I think Bret would tell you to call him a "mark"" then. He was always about doing business the right way. He didn't "forfeit" the title like Shawn had multiple times to keep from doing jobs, but he felt he could to the "job" for Shawn plain and simple.....and it cost him.
     
    #16
  17. d_henderson1810

    d_henderson1810 Mid-Card Championship Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,792
    Likes Received:
    272
    On the Montreal Screwjob, and why Bret might not bitch about it as much and even returned to the WWE, I think I heard it summed up well one time (I can't remember who said it).

    "When you have moved to WCW and are used as an afterthought, have a marriage breakdown, have your career ended because of an injury, you suffer two strokes, have a motorcycle accident, have your brother die in a wrestling accident, lose both your parents, and one of your best friends, whose house you have had dinner with, kills himself, his wife and his child, then maybe being screwed over at Survivor Series '97 might not be the worst tragedy to happen in your life".

    Maybe Bret had a reality check, and was shown that a hell of a lot of worse things can happen than the "Montreal Screwjob".
     
    #17
  18. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    70
    I don't think those events had anything to with Bret not "bitching about it" (he sort of does it this day) or even his decision to return to WWE. He says he did forgive Vince when Vince contacted him after he suffered the stroke and that opened the door to not fully coming back to WWE but at least doing the HOF and DVD. I think alot of anger towards Vince dissipated after that. He didn't think about contacting Shawn till after watching his match with Undretaker and even then he wasn't sure. It tool a long while to reconcile and if you watch the Bret/Shawn DVD it still affects emotionally to this day which bring me to another question. How can so many people think this was a work when it took about 13 years to reconcile? You listen to guys like X-Pac, Hall, Nash, guys IN the business who are convinced this was some sort of work. Ifs it just hatred for Bret Hart. You can tell it emotionally devastated him.
     
    #18
  19. Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.

    Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. Kamehamehaaaaa!!

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,438
    Likes Received:
    370
    But, 20 years?! It just sounds insane to me. I didn't know he was offered the contract after WM 12 though. Can you clear one thing for me though.. Did Bret ever sign that contract? Or was it on the table for 1+ year?
     
    #19
  20. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    70
    Well you gotta remember Vince was desperate. he had just let Hall and Nash go and they were making it seem like it was full-blown WWE invasion which was skyrocketing their ratings, merch, house shows, and PPV's. Can you imagine if the FACE (yes the FACE) of the WWE for the last 5 years showed up on Nitro?!? It would've been a death blow to WCW especially if he joined the NWO. There was no way Vince could match what WCW was offering that's why he came up with the "20 year" lifetime contract.

    Yes he did sign it. Vince gave Bret permission to break the contract. There was always this conspiracy theory that Vince wanted to secretly "get revenge" on the Hitman for using the contract offer from WCW to leverage Vince into giving him a new expensive contract and he wanted to "destroy" the Hitman character before giving him permission to go to WCW. In the least, it made Vince more receptive to the idea of "screwing" Bret.
     
    #20
  21. RIPbossman

    RIPbossman Occasional Pre-Show

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    21
    It was my understanding that Bret's WWF contract didn't expire until a few weeks after Survivor Series. Bret agreed to lose the title before his contract expired, but Vince was afraid Bischoff would announce on Nitro he signed Bret before his WCW contract kicked in. Not wanting to face the embarrassment of WCW announcing they signed the current WWF champion, Vince felt he needed to get the belt off Bret ASAP. And the night after the screw job, Bischoff did announce he signed Bret Hart, while he was still under contract to WWF.

    Correct me if any of that is wrong.
     
    #21
  22. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    70
    His contract wasn't expiring it had already been broken by Vince hence freeing Bret to negotiate with WCW. So his contract at that point was null and void. Bret even says in interviewes he had the right not to even show up at Survivor Series and just just hand the belt back to Vince but he wanted to do it the "right way". He just refused to lose to Shawn Michaels due the reasons I've layed out. He did agree if he were to win at Survivor Series he would a clean 1-2-3 job the next night in Ottawa but "that wasn't good enough for Vince."

    I don't think Vince was worried about what Bischoff might do. The word had already leaked that Bret was going to WCW and this was his last match. Vince knew Bret would not pull an "Alundra Blayze" and show up on Nitro with the belt. I think it was about Shawn and Hunter stirring Vince up and making it seem like Bret was the one out of line in demanding how he was to leave the company. I think Vince was frustrated with Bret for negotiating the contract in 1996 and even more frustrated that he was making it hard on Vince to transition to Shawn.

    Bischoff did not announce Bret had signed with WCW but he did insinuate it. The NWO showed up with Canadian flags and sang a horrible "O Canada". Bischoff made reference to Bret knocking out Vince but that was it. He did not announce Bret was coming to WCW but everyone knew by that time.
     
    #22
  23. relentless1

    relentless1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    79
    Of course he did, what did he expect Vince to do? Bret was offered many different scenarios to drop the belt and he refused every one of them, thats something not even HOGAN did to Vince so yeah, id say McMahon was very justified in taking the belt off of Bret in the way that he did. Brets been whining about that for decades and it was al his fault lol.
     
    #23
  24. TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP

    TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP Pre-Show Stalwart

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    14
    Thank you very much for your true opinion regarding Bret Hart there @relentless1. It doesn't even matter if Shawn Michaels is a problematic person to deal with in the 1990s, only Bret's self-righteousness and hypocrisies are magnified far more so than Michaels' drug addled lifestyle. I think Bret would be the first drug-free person (if he is actually what he claims himself to be) who needs to go to DDP Yoga.

    Bret Hart even if he's a drug free person, I think Bret needs to go to DDP Yoga so he can eliminate the bitterness that's been plaguing him for nearly close to 20 years now. DDP can even teach Bret how to behave and not to be a bitter moral authoritarian in public, especially with the way he's been ripping on guys like Triple H in recent years.
     
    #24
  25. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    70
    Ummmmmmmmm what exactly were the different scenarios offered him?
     
    #25

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"