Davey Boy Smith as WWE Champion

Discussion in 'The Wrestling Archives' started by Hyorinmaru, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. Hyorinmaru

    Hyorinmaru Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens

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    I'm currently watching In Your House on the WWE Network and one thing that struck me is the Davey Boy got quite a few title shots at these shows against 3 different people. At IYH 4 it was Diesel, IYH 5 it was his brother in law and at IYH 8 it was Shawn Michaels.




    Now I'm of the opinion that Bulldog would have been a pretty good champion and antone of these shows would have been a great time to give him the title even if it's not for very long. He had the look Vince drools over and while not the best talker he had Jim Cornette as a manager so that wasn't a big deal.


    Now my question for all of you is this: If they had decided to give Bulldog the title at one of these which one would have been the best time to do it?

    Having seen all of them I think they should have had him go over Bret Hart at IYH 5. The Story is there with Bret having lost his IC title back at SummerSlam 1992 to Bulldog. They played that up pretty much the entire match and having Bulldog win would have set everything up nicely for an even bigger moment at the Royal Rumble the next month with Bret finally beating Davey Boy and regaining his title.
     
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  2. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    IF they had to choose one it would probably be IYH 5 with Bret. The point of having Bret defeat Diesel at Survivor Series 1995 was to turn Diesel back heel with a post match attack. It wouldn't have been the same with Bulldog (a much larger man) in place of Bret.

    There is no way he is defeating Shawn just months into his run as WWF Champion. So it would have the Bret by default. But in all honesty that wouldn't have made sense either as Bret as JUST defeated Diesel and they were building him towards a match with Shawn at WM 12

    All that being said Bulldog was a solid performer in 1995 and I would've liked to see a series of matches with Bret. Bulldog definitely deserved a run with the title at some point but the question is could he connect with the American audience and could he headline a major PPV?
     
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  3. HeenanGorilla

    HeenanGorilla Championship Contender

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    I would have liked to have seen him win it here, as he would have become the first Grand Slam Champion, once he won the European Championship in 97, plus the Hardcore Title later. All other things going on as they did of course..
     
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  4. RIPbossman

    RIPbossman Occasional Pre-Show

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    Probably against Bret, if they had to choose one. Bret was a transitional champion then, and as long as he won it back at Royal Rumble so he could lose it to Shawn at WrestleMania, everything would have worked out reasonably well.
     
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  5. FromGlasgow

    FromGlasgow Championship Contender

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    I would loved to have seen him have a world title run, I had never seen anyone over so much as the Bulldog was at Summerslam 92, I know that was his home country but his match did headline the show that had the biggest Summerslam attendance of all time and could have easily been for a world title instead of the IC title and he has main evented several sucessful PPVS in the US both in WWE and WCW for the world title and he always put on a great match so I think he would have had more than enough capability to win it.

    I heard rumours that he had a reputation for drug use perhaps that is what held him back and prevented the people in charge having faith or trust to put the title on him another problem was he was around at a time when there was so much other talent around to compete with and also in an era where the world title didn't change hands as often as it does now, Also the bad timing of the steriod scandal hitting right at his peak straight after Summerslam 92 where if it didn't happen he may have gotten a bigger push,
    I'm betting if he was around now he would be a multi time champion.
     
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  6. HBKperfect23

    HBKperfect23 Championship Contender

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    I just don't think that IYH 5 was the time. Building to WM12 with the Shawn/Bret storyline revolving around who is the best, I don't think Bret should have dropped the belt for a transitional run.

    I think the best time for Bulldog to get the belt would have been from Shawn Michaels at Survivor Series 96 and dropping it back at the rumble. It was clearly a transitional run for Sid and I think Bulldog would have been better suited. Shawn and Bulldog always worked so well together. Everything is still in line to play out as it did and Sid still gets his 97 run.
     
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    Mitch Henessey likes this.
  7. Goldie

    Goldie Getting Noticed By Management

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    I think Vince toyed with the idea of giving Davey a title run given the number of title shots he had on PPV 1995-96.

    Had it happened he would have been a caretaker champ.... being heel at the time, I would have him take the belt from Diesel and then have Davey lose it to Bret at Survivor Series.

    As mentioned above Davey would have been no worse than Sid holding the title for a short transitional period
     
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  8. legendkiller1979

    legendkiller1979 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    I'm glad Davey wasn't WWF champion for one reason. This would have cemented what so many people already think;that Davey was better than the Dynamite Kid. He was good but he wasn't nearly as good and Dynamite. History, for most, says that Davey was better because Dyamite never had a singles run and given the time to shine. I get that his career was bascally over when the bulldogs left the WWF in 1988 so he never had the chance to show how good he was. But the fact remains that he was a better wrestler than Davey Boy so far too people realize it.
     
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  9. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    The only question here is they still needed Sid to draw for house shows as champion. Sid was a proven draw as a main event in the U.S. Davey was much more of a question mark. Shawn and Davey also had already feuded in mid-'96 and headlined two PPV's so to extend that feud into '97 would have been stretch
     
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  10. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

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    This is the kind of opinion that really annoys me...

    One wasn't "better" than the other... they were both top drawer wrestlers. The difference is that Davey was able to parlay his career into a more successful singles career than Tommy could...even when they were in the UK.

    It was Davey who was headlining World of Sport teaming with Big Daddy at 15... not Dynamite... It was Davey who won at Wembley and got WWF Title matches... Injury isn't the issue with Dynamite, his attitude was. It stunk to the point few even liked him enough to want to work him. Davey was a loveable goof who was under a "bad influence" in Tommy, but as they were family he got a pass. So few people speak badly of Davey, even now... they talk of his ribbing, personality and not "just cos he's dead". Of course THAT guy is gonna do better than the jerk who bullies all the talents in the back slightly above him, so no one really wants to work him too.

    Davey's behaviour wasn't brilliant either and arguably it cost him the WWF title. Interestingly I recently saw the Sunny Youshoot where she claims she was banging Davey after Shawn... so it makes sense timing wise and perhaps explains better than anything why Davey didn't win the title from Shawn when it made perfect sense for him to be in that role rather than Sid. He also smashed that Cody Light kid's skull in a bar fight... but he did help Shawn with the Marines... so on balance in Vince's eyes his good karma outweighed his bad. Davey perhaps got more "chances" than most and even at the time of his death was on his way back to the WWE by all accounts, with Harry in tow.

    Davey was looked at as a potential 3rd main eventer and was all over merch as far back as 1990 when they signed him... They already had their eye on the UK and Europe as their major goal to conquer and having Davey, who had a unique look and popularity helped them. In a year they went from "Battle Royal at The Albert Hall" to Summerslam at Wembley and Davey headlined both shows... he was popular in the US too.

    Sadly his best opportunity was after Summerslam 92... If he HADN'T been fired, he v Bret would have happened at least twice more for the World title... I'm also pretty certain that had that timeline followed, Mania 11 would have been at Wembley or in the UK.
     
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  11. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    I don't know anyone who thinks Davey was better than Dynamite. Dynamite was a pioneer, an innovator. This is where I give Bret Hart props. He keeps Dynamite's name alive in interviews. When anyone ever asks him "Who was the greatest wrestler he's ever seen?", Dynamite's name ALWAYS comes up
     
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  12. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

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    They BOTH were innovative... that's the thing. Davey wasn't always the musclebound guy... his "schoolboy gymnastic" style that he had from day one helped both he AND Dynamite excel. They fed of each other's creativity in those early days to create a new style of tag wrestling. Dynamite didn't do it alone nor was he the centrepiece.

    Bret keeps Dynamite's name alive because in the main, he was most like himself. Bret probably rues that Dynamite got hurt and fell out of the fold/with Davey. In his book he mentions going to see him with Brian Knobs when he was World Champ and Dynamite seemed to acknowledge that it could and perhaps SHOULD have been him had he done things differently. Bret probably knew that too... as I said with Davey, if he hadn't... all 3 would have risen up the card together... Davey could have moved up higher than Dynamite in the WWF at that time, as his look was more Vince friendly... but Bret v Dynamite for the IC is something I and no doubt Bret wishes had happened.
     
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  13. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    Dynamite was ALOT smaller than Davey. Dynamite was 5'8, Davey was 6'3 260 just bu virtue of size alone Dynamite was an innovator and a pioneer. Guys Dynamite's size did not get pushes much less main event matches. His blend of superior athletic wrestling combined with his intense in-ring demeanor is what gained him a reputation and put the Bulldogs on the map. Make no mistake Dynamite was the alpha in the relationship. He was the leader and the innovator. Davey Boy learned from Dynamite.

    I agree with that. He pays respect to Dynamite for sacrificing his body so that that he (and guys like Shawn, Jericho, Benoit) could reap the benefits. He understands Dynamite's bitterness but also makes no excuses for him. Dynamite was WAY before his time.
     
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  14. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

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    More that Dynamite/Tommy was his older cousin... that's why Dynamite seemed senior... he was 4 years older and 4 years ahead in training... Davey was equally innovative... he bulked up over time but initially he was very althletic and had the rolls and handstands etc that Dynamite didn't have... Dynamite innovated the flying side of the game but stuff like the Rocker's hand flips, cartwheels and twirls came from what Davey was doing. It's being a product of that UK school gymnastics system we had back then... Dynamite could work better than most with crisp offense... but Davey was always the more agile on his feet and off them... As much as revisionist history puts Dynamite as being the guy who got them their break and allowed Davey to tag along, it was Davey's success in World Of Sport as Young David that got him noticed... Dynamite being further ahead just greased that wheel.

    You said you can't understand people saying Davey was better, I don't get anyone saying Davey was lesser... they just weren't, one was a few years younger/less experienced is all.
     
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  15. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    I think it was Dynamite's series of matches with Tiger Mask in Japan that got him noticed. The WWE had the Junior Heavyweight Division at the time and Tiger Mask was one of their guys as a result of a partnership with New Japan. Dynamite and Tiger Mask engaged in a legendary feud in Japan in the early '80's that spotlighted the innovative wrestling of the junior heavyweights. Dynamite won the Junior Heavyweight title in 1984 before his pairing with Davey Boy.
     
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  16. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    Not lesser but as a far as ring generalship and just pure wrestling. Dynamite was always ahead of Davey Boy. Davey Boy obviously had the athletic talent and the look but you put Davey Boy in Dynamite's 5'8 frame it wouldn't have worked so well. Dynamite was a natural underdog with the personality of a pitbull.
     
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  17. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

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    Nope, they were noticed long before that, remember Rollerball Rocco was regularly on the cards with them in England and he was big in Japan... They went to Stampede first and Bret and Bruce had both been to the UK... Like it or not for his youth, Davey was the bigger star in the UK at the time - he was headlining shows with Big Daddy on TV with 15m+ viewers... Dynamite was mid-card. Sure that's not down to ability as such, but Davey always had the star quality.. he just matured over time into the star he was destined to be... Davey became a ring general with experience of the US scene rather than the Japanese scene... you can't say by those IYH matches/run with Owen that he wasn't as good if not better as a "ring general" than Dynamite ever was.

    Whether he got the title or not, he was always valued in the WWE/F because he was that ring general guy.
     
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  18. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    Well I was specifically referring to your point about Davey following Dynamite to the WWF but OK that's true. They were both "discovered" in the UK. Dynamite didn't start making a name for himself until he entered Stampede Wrestling and subsequently Japan.

    I don't think he really became a "ring general". One that puts together the matches and spots a la Bret, Flair, Dusty, Shawn etc....if you go by what Bret says in his book, Davey's most famous match was put together solely by Bret and he basically carried Davey through the match spot for spot. He did praise his athletic talent though.

    In Bret's book he says he and Dynamite put together the matches between the Harts and Bulldogs while Niedhart and Davey Boy sat there with dumbfounded looks and I don't remember Davey being involved in any classics that didn't have a Hart member involved. He was a SOLID worker and had talent but NOT a ring general on par with Bret or Dynamite. All you have to do with looks at the classic matches Dynamite had in Japan as proof of extraordinary work rate and overall work ability of Dynamite.

    I just remember watching the Bulldogs as a kid and when Dynamite tagged in you knew you were going to see something special. While I loved Davey and enjoyed watching him perform he was nothing like Dynamite who was true "Dynamite"
     
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  19. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

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    By the time we get to the period the OP is talking about, Davey absolutely was a ring general. There was a reason he was #2 in the Shawn Rumble and last eliminated and always ended up final 4 or there abouts from an early spot. The Owen/Davey Team, his European run... even the Allied Powers, he was the guy putting it together most of the time even if the Kliq were making life difficult.
     
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  20. Makaveli31

    Makaveli31 Championship Contender

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    I don't know. If he was such a "general" he wouldn't have let Shawn **** all over him in Europe. He got pushed because of his look no question. He was a talented worker. Able to work with Shawn or Diesel but as far as command presence in the ring I always found it lacking in Davey Boy. He just didn't have that type of personality to take control. He was more of a follower and that'ss what ultimately got him in trouble. That's the vibe I got watching the Bulldog.
     
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  21. harrythem

    harrythem Championship Contender

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    Would've loved the Bulldog to be world champion but, honestly, his legacy didn't need it. There isn't a hope that any uk wrestler can match his level of popularity. I'm more peeved he's not in the HOF yet as his career warrants it. I can only assume they'd be looking at putting the bulldogs in as a team and, for that to happen, they'd def want Dynamite dead first as there's no way you can trust him not to say something awful
     
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  22. Goldie

    Goldie Getting Noticed By Management

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    Davey was not 6'3. He was more like 5'10. He is a little shorter than Bret Hart who walks around at 6'0.
    WWE always inflated heights (and weights) to make wrestlers seem more larger than life

    Daveys body mass was bigger than Dynmaites obviously, peaking at 270 lbs in the early 90s... however many people forget that Davey was a slightly smaller more agile 245 in the mid to late 80s. He was a cross between a high flyer and a power guy ..... though by the 90s he was more the power guy with the huge physique to maximise his solo career push (and his earnings)
     
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  23. LBGetBack

    LBGetBack Championship Contender

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    I just never looked at Bulldog as a champion type guy. He could put on great matches and was physically imposing. But he just never seemed to really click as anything more than a mid card guy. And that's ok. He was a very good mid carder.

    Maybe part of it is that he was never around for long enough. He was around from like 1990-1992 in his first solo run, but even within that 2 year time it seems he would disappear for weeks or longer at times. Could be wrong but that's how I remember it. Then he came back in mid 1994, but I don't remember him really wrestling much until '95. It just never really felt like he was "all in".
     
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  24. The Fabulous Rougeau's

    The Fabulous Rougeau's Championship Contender

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    Davey's best shot at the title of the 3 would have been the first one against Diesel. At the time he had just turned heel and was the best heel the company had at the time as Yoko was at the very end of being relevant and Mable was a flash in the pan in 95. WWE was still invested in face Diesel at the time so Davey missed his chance there. This would be his best shot as by the end of 95 Bret got the title to set up the Mania 12 match against Michaels. by the end of 95 Shawn was positioned to be the top face and Bulldog was not the guy to begin that title reign against. So there was really no shot for him to beat Bret. Then his last shot against Shawn was early on in Shawn's reign and not only was there a lot invested in him, but they needed to establish Shawn as the huge face with Bret gone and Taker using 96 to get himself to that point in 97.

    As some have mentioned here the absolute best time for Bulldog to have had a title reign would have come in 93 had he not gotten fired. It would have made too much sense once Bret got the title in the Fall of 92 to have him in a program with Bulldog at some point after their program that culminated in the classic we got at Wembly. If Bulldog is still around maybe the company doesn't go as hard as fast as they did with Yoko which could have positioned Bulldog for a run with the title at some point in 93.
     
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  25. Goldie

    Goldie Getting Noticed By Management

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    Though it would be great for the Bulldogs to go in the HOF.... Daveys solo career merits it anyway. He was an upper midcard guy for most of the 90s.
    He really was instrumental in getting the WWE over in the UK in the early 90s when Sky started broadcasting it.

    Summerslam 92 was his defining moment... when he wins the title I don't think I've seen a crowd pop like it! 80,000 at Wembley stadium!
     
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